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3:01 PM
If you commit it I can quickly test it in my code.
 
ok, should be there now
I messed up a reinterpret_cast
 
Ok, my test runs fine now :)
 
sweet
sorry it took so long :)
 
No problem :)
I'll probably start updating my code within a few weeks or so.
 
3:17 PM
neat
 
It's time for some kebab and project writing!
 
Ell
Hi guys
 
Hello
all
 
3:32 PM
Anyone know why std::tuple's member-wise constructor is explicit?
 
Because of std::tuple<just_one_member>
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That would easily be solved by adding a constructor overload.
template< typename first_type, typename second_type, typename ... more_types > tuple( first_type &&, second_type &&, more_types && ... )
 
Yeah, I know.
It's annoying as heck.
Can't use { a, b, c } syntax for tuple-making :(
 
@RMartinhoFernandes huh, really?
 
That's a strange mistake for them to have made.
 
3:38 PM
That sucks donkey-ballz.
 
@rubenvb Because the ctor is explicit.
Which reminds me. Since I use my own tuple anyway, I could fix that ctor.
Optimal layout and neat syntax in one package.
 
Well, you can use make_tuple but that requires move construction or whatever weirdness.
@RMartinhoFernandes LOL
How do you allocate the members? Inheritance chain or flat char[] backing store?
 
I defer to the std::tuple.
 
what is a member-wise ctor?
 
3:42 PM
@Potatoswatter Another option is multiple inheritance.
@TonyTheLion Takes an argument to initialize each member.
 
oh, didn't know that had a name
 
@TonyTheLion Just made it up.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Then you need to generate a number pack to disambiguate repeated member types. Might as well go all out and flatten it to a char[]. (Says the armchair quarterback.)
 
The problem with flattening to a char[] is that you need to handle layout manually.
The advantage of multiple inheritance is that get<N> becomes TMP O(1).
 
3:48 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeppers. Probably the easiest way to do so is to generate one of the other implementation styles, and then query it at class template instantiation time for the implementation-generated offsets (probably incurring UB).
@RMartinhoFernandes Hmm, but it's still overload resolution O(N).
 
How do you fetch the member properties given the index in O(1), without some kind of array structure?
 
static_cast?
 
The index and the type are both template arguments to the base class type, so you need to look up the type before casting, right?
I'm just speculating…
Oh, no, the final tuple type and the index are the arguments.
Then each base class figures out its own member. OK
Well, the static_cast is still O(N) but hopefully a fast one ;v) … no lookup is O(1) in TMP, though, as there are no arrays.
 
Yeah, the static_cast itself is as fast as the compiler makes it. The good thing is that there's no actual templating going around to compute it.
I really need to convert my implementation to use Boost.MPL. Anyone knows if it can handle variadic templates already?
 
4:02 PM
Don't think so. But what do you need besides a wrapped type-vector?
 
I need: sorting types by alignment, keeping a map of their original positions; reversing that same map; composing two of those maps; concatenating tuples, keeping their original positions as in (tuple number, tuple offset).
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah, but since packs are input-only, what variadic support do you need besides constructing containers?
 
@Potatoswatter Well, AFAIK mpl::vector has a limited number of arguments. They use typename = void_ to fake variadics, right?
That will probably go wrong as soon as you write something like template <typename... T> struct foo<mpl::vector<T...>> {};
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Oh, you want one which is rewritten atop variadics. That sounds like a big job.
Are you really worried about containers with like 30+ members?
 
No, but it irks me knowing that it can't handle it.
 
4:10 PM
Or are you concerned with the compile-time performance?
Oh. Heh. Yeah, I'd say then if it ain't broke don't fix it. (Not worth it to port to MPL.)
 
I guess I could try making some template <typename...> struct typelist {}; thing model MPL concepts.
 
Adding abstraction without simplification will make it slower…
But you could take the opportunity to make indexing a typelist O(log N), since the asymptotic behavior is really what matters in TMP, LOL
 
I don't like the code as it is. It's confusing as heck. And I figured that if I were to clean it up, I'd end up writing algorithms that are already on MPL. That's why I wanted to use MPL.
I'm not keen on writing my own MPL thingy.
@Potatoswatter That sounds like a challenge!
 
my f-in operator++ is reading empty/zeroed member bytes :(
 
4:29 PM
yay increment is working!
 
Both? :v>
 
@rubenvb yayincrement?
i += yay
 
@Cicada yaycrement.
 
@Abyx good, good
@Cicada check out t-rex ;-)
or, for that matter, slade
 
is there a copy-less way of doing post-increment?
 
4:33 PM
T. Rex were a British rock band, formed in 1967 by singer/songwriter and guitarist Marc Bolan. The band formed as Tyrannosaurus Rex, releasing four folk albums under the name. Tony Visconti (their producer for several albums) claimed in a documentary on the band that he had taken to using the abbreviated term "T.Rex" as a shorthand, something that initially irritated Bolan, who gradually came around to the idea and officially shortened the band's name to "T.Rex" at roughly the same time they started having big hits (shortly after going electric). In the 1970s, the band had reached succe...
@rubenvb yes. just declare that operator void. ;-)
oh no
!
sorry
 
you have to be able to use the result, don't you?
 
^ My sister had a poster with him, if I recall correctly.
@rubenvb i'm sorry, was wrong. dumb comment. i punch myself.
 
lol
Something like this ought to help the compiler, right?
  {
    ++i;
    return i-1;
  }
 
@rubenvb huh?
 
how about return []( T& t ){ auto const x = t; ++t; return x; } ( i );
?
 
4:36 PM
that's a copy.
my i is N bytes large, where N is supposed to be very large.
if I return i-1, won't some return value optimization kick in?
 
it can't very well optimize something like that unless the whole call gets inlined
maybe the function is doing too much?
 
huh, postfix operator++ must take "int" as argument.
wtf kind of nonsense is that.
 
it's just a dummy
 
ok then :)
to test my hypothesis, I need to implement operator-. Here we go :)
 
Why why why people believe that having a directory with many files is bad?
Many as in "a whole fucking lot"
 
4:43 PM
I know it is bad.
unless you know commandline-fu
 
@Cicada It breaks * (filename wildcard), for one thing.
 
Not considering shell
Just raw, FS api
It's because of this
 
Well, if you don't want to use a shell, why not use a database?
 
Precisely
Do not use a database
 
Yeah, I disagree with that answer. A filesystem is a very specialized kind of database.
 
4:50 PM
Do you consider pack expansion a TMP O(1) operation?
 
Using it as a map from IDs to data blobs isn't a good way to build a website.
 
I mean, it doesn't involve generating any new templates.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes But TMP can't access the inside of the pack.
So I'd consider it an O(1) operation but as far as it being a TMP operation, its only for passing the pack as-is, not for data processing.
 
But you can transform the pack.
foo<T>...
 
@Cicada My roommate during my undergrad had a bad experience with that.
 
4:52 PM
Yeah, but each transformation is O(1).
 
@Mysticial I should add to the context: "storing many files in the same folder for raw API access, not by shell"
 
He was rar'ing a 1GB+ file. When it asked for the file-size, he entered 100 KB (instead of 100 MB). And saved it to the desktop.
 
Actually, I think it was worse than that.
I recall him saying he had 100,000+ files on his desktop.
He couldn't boot up.
 
@Cicada So, you're suggesting to store the data into a database without a usable client for viewing, but just APIs.
 
4:54 PM
As soon as he tried to log in - hang.
 
We ending up having to pull the hard drive out, stick it into another computer to clear his desktop (via command line).
 
@Potatoswatter What? No! The guy wants to store many files in a SQLite DB instead of just the FS. He wants "very fast random access"
 
@Cicada Yes… and the problem is?
 
@Mysticial Really? As in, couldn't reach the desktop or?
@Potatoswatter And the problem is: storing many files is the FS' job, not a DB's.
 
4:56 PM
@Cicada It would hang upon logging in. Complete freeze since the UI couldn't handle 100,000+ desktop icons.
 
I'm sure I'm doing something inherently flawed here. Needs helpsies: ideone.com/hfclH
 
@Mysticial How about logging in without UI?
 
@Cicada But a FS is a DB. In particular, it's a DB which is already busy with other important things to do, very limited indexing capability, and limited manual browsing/administration
 
Who is the butthurt guy in the starred section?
 
@Cicada He didn't have his desktop shared on the network. Safe mode displays the desktop...
 
4:57 PM
@Potatoswatter Nononono
@Mysticial Recovery mode does not
 
@Cicada We didn't try that.
 
@DomagojPandža Where?
 
Or just run a Linux for a live USB, really
 
@RMartinhoFernandes "I'm now gone. Bye everyone."
 
Since I had recently built a computer at the time, I happened to have all the resources and tools to pull a hard drive out.
 
4:58 PM
"very fast random access" in a video processing context can very well mean that. He shouldn't be making kernel calls every time.
 
@DomagojPandža Ah, old story.
Caused trouble in the lounge once.
 
Do tell, please? Just the short version.
 
@Potatoswatter Implying accessing a DB makes less kernel calls than the FS. I seriously doubt that
 
@DomagojPandža Well, "kid hits the chat search for 'fuck', starts flagging each and everyone one of the results". Then he ran for mod.
 
4:59 PM
@DomagojPandža He registered a bit after me. He was litterally all the questions he could with, uh, varying quality answers.
 
That's really short.
 
@Cicada Any sort of FS access is a kernel call because you have to deal with other processes. A local DB can be cached in process memory.
 
Ahahahahah
 
When it comes to the global FS, the question is whether all calls get bottlenecked through one global mutex in the kernel, not whether you need to go to the kernel or not.
 
@Potatoswatter FS is cached too.
 
5:00 PM
@Cicada Kinda like me during my first 2 or 3 months. Though I usually did more than 1 line answers.
 
@Mysticial His answers were really bad (well, most)
What's worse is, he had more rep than me
 
@Cicada Inside your process, you keep a read/write buffer. After that, it's kernel space.
 
Now that I look back, most of my earlier answers were 1-2 lines to start. Then usually with a paragraph edited it later.
 
@Cicada He still has. :P
 
@Potatoswatter (Btw there is no point caching randomly accessed files)
@RMartinhoFernandes This problem will eventually be solved!
 
5:01 PM
Well, if you distribute his reputation over his answers, he gets a meager ~14 rep per answer average.
That's two upvotes and three downvotes.
 
@Cicada Um, unless some are frequently accessed. Are you sure that's what you intend to say?
 
Ell
anyone used boost::asio?
 
When I first joined SO, I was basically competing with two other people who started at about the same time. I lost... :(
 
"competing"
 
Computing or competing? :Đ
 
5:02 PM
@Potatoswatter What I mean is (and I really do), the dude's problem should not be solved with a DB.
 
Ell
I joined SO 2 years ago or something, I still have only like 100 rep
 
shuddup, fixed XD
 
Ell
694
joined in 2010/10/something
 
@Mysticial Uh? Considering you're like in the top 15 of people with the highest rape/day average, who are the two others?
 
Since I'm a robot, I could say that I was computing with other people.
 
@Cicada Read what you wrote again.
GOsh.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Pun intended, you robot
 
I somehow don't give the same rep credibility to rep gained on C++ questions and that on JavaScript/Java/PHP. :Đ
 
Filthy downvoter!
 
5:05 PM
Wut?
 
@Cicada Yeah, I did that. I don't think you really know what you're talking about.
Sorry. I gotta sleep now.
 
Downvoting because "you disagree" is a bit dumb, but, oh well.
Never argue with a potato they say
 
@Cicada who says that?
 
@Mysticial Oh, I met K-ballo on the tag before.
@thecoshman Carrots.
 
Also no, I have no idea what i'm talking about
Obviously
 
5:08 PM
A disagreement in opinion would be one thing. But he objected to the idea of creating a half million files as initialization, and you responded that it's what FS is designed for. It's not.
 
Do go on and tell me that "this is what databases are designed for"
 
There are many kinds of databases out there and many ways of organizing data.
 
Filesystems being the ones that organize files
Wonderful
 
SQLite is not going to solve his problem because it's entirely memory-resident, and the entire objective is to cope with overflowing memory.
 
SQLite entirely memory resident?? wat
 
5:10 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes At the time, K-ballo would pull these 300+ days that couldn't possibly do. But I was repcapping every single day - even through the weekends.
 
Freeform definitions, hip-hip-hurray!
 
Compile, dammit!
 
Some of you really enjoy your reputation grinding :D
 
Isn't it? Anyway with a 1GB limit it would be effectively so, and won't help his problem.
 
@Potatoswatter Of course it's not!
 
5:11 PM
Anyway, he doesn't have files, he has video frames.
 
SQLite has something liek 16EiB limit or so
 
@Potatoswatter It can use a file store.
 
With 1 GB / blob limit
 
@DomagojPandža Not anymore, I got bored of that after about December.
 
That guy wants (once again) fast random access
Not avoiding a memory overlow
Are you sure I am the one not knowing what I'm talking about?
 
5:12 PM
Oh, OK. Then SQLite should be fine. O_o
 
No one knows.
 
@Potatoswatter No! Arrghhh
 
I know little about SQLite and a bit about handling large amounts of data, and filesystem implementation.
 
And a war has broken loose on the Kyroteam. Alpha-nerd to be determined soon.
 
5:12 PM
Where is my fork, I'm going to turn you into puréeswatter
@Potatoswatter SQLite is just as good as other DBs at handling large amounts of files: bad
 
"purée"
You should know this, you're French.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I thought stranglish people hated accents, so I simplified it. There, fixed
 
lol
I've seen it as "puree" too. Probably due to lack of keyboard support.
 
If he weren't dealing with memory overflow, he would just put everything on the heap and fly. Which is perhaps what he should do anyway.
 
@Potatoswatter No. He wants to persist its data. That is the point
@RMartinhoFernandes Yeah. Although strangely, qwerty keyboard is better suited for accents than azerty (French)
 
5:15 PM
No clue where to ask this, so just give it a shot here: Anyone know a Assembler? NASM to be specific
 
@Blade Well, NASM?
 
@Cicada Where did he say that?
 
What's the point of a database if you don't want data persistance?
 
@DomagojPandža As a smarter/distributed VM system.
 
@Cicada It's Nation Wide Assembler - The gui if you will of assembler. But it's mainly just a dos window^^
:D Netwide not Nationwide^^
 
5:17 PM
@Potatoswatter Look at the file sizes, it does not fit in memory (17GB)
 
@Cicada That doesn't imply persistence. It fits in virtual memory.
 
@Blade Well yes. You asked for an assembler (like NASM) and I tell you, well, NASM?
@Potatoswatter Oh no it does not
 
lol, nation wide.
 
Even on Windows7 x64
 
5:19 PM
@Cicada Hard time believing that. That would make it an incredibly inferior operating system.
 
Pretty sure W7 supports up to 16 GiB virtual memory per process.
 
@Cicada Oh yeah I just see that half of my question got swallowed: Does anyone know how to code in NASM?
 
@Potatoswatter Now this is a trollish topic
Die, potato!
 
@Blade Intel asm manual, get on it.
 
@Cicada Nope. Way beyond that.
 
5:20 PM
> Windows 7 Home Premium
4 GB
16 GB
 
On my machine it's not 8D
Therefore I wins.
 
@DomagojPandza Well, I actually read a good book on it.
 
@Cicada That's physical memory.
 
Oh crap you're right
 
5:21 PM
Windows 7 x64 is 8TB of VM
 
Therefore I loses X(
 
I remember having to install Ultimate on my machine cause it had more than 16GB and more than 1 socket.
 
Really I gotta sleep. Cheers all!
 
night
 
5:23 PM
GN, purée
 
And your system only blocks > 16 GB, far from it being incapable.
maximum is around 192 GB (physical)
On the Ultimate version I run with now 32 GB (upgraded) of RAM
 
The 2 socket limitation of Win Ultimate is also very annoying...
 
@Mysticial There must be a registry key to edit to support more sockets
Or something along these lines.
 
[HKLM\Hardware\RAM\Sockets]
Count = 2
 
@Cicada It's intentional. If you can afford 4 sockets, MS wants to farm as much $$$ out of you as possible.
*CPU sockets
 
5:26 PM
Oh, and I was all like int fd = socket()
 
Ell
who can afford 4 sockets?
 
You need Win Server to get more than 2 sockets.
 
Ell
who needs 4 sockets?
 
@Ell Someone donated one to me.
 
That must be some seriously furious hardware
And electricity bill, also
 
Ell
5:28 PM
ahh okay
 
Some people like to push the limits out of currently available hardware ( me included )
Therefore, it's not a need, it's a destiny.
One you can choose to follow hahah
 
Well if you can afford, why not
 
It was an old Opteron machine. The guy used it for computing projects but wasn't worth his power anymore.
And he found that I needed a NUMA machine...
And that's how I gained my NUMA box.
 
Arghhh. Can I partially specialize a template with a pattern like this: foo<T..., int, U...>?
 
Robot's template wankery strikes again. :Đ
 
5:31 PM
I guess I'll go to SO proper.
 
Ell
will a vector::size > int ever?
 
@DomagojPandža And I've destroyed plenty of hardware doing that. :)
 
2
Q: Why did Giant Space Hamsters cause community outrage?

Samuel RussellI remember there being a community fallout surrounding the introduction of Giant Space Hamsters, but never got the details at the time, and had an adolescent "WOW, hamsters, giant, in space, this is awesome." Is there a really good account of why and how a classic monster caused debate?

 
Giant Space Hamsters! Cmik!
 
Ell
hmm why do I need std::array<int, 1> s = {{0}};? why the {{0}} and not just {0}?
 
5:33 PM
You can just {0} there.
 
Ell
I get a warning if i do that o.O
warning: missing braces around intializer for 'std::array<int, 1ul>::value_type [1] {aka int [1]}' [-Wmissing-braces]
 
> An array is an aggregate (8.5.1) that can be initialized with the syntax array<T, N> a = { initializer-list }; where initializer-list is a comma-separated list of up to N elements whose types are convertible to T.
The standard is quite clear that that should work.
Fuck GCC.
4
 
Ell
haha
 
@DomagojPandža What is your vision about the "engine" by the way, on scale from TOS: Oblivion to Witcher 2 :P
 
I can make it outperform Witcher 2 on a technical basis (lazy loading without animation-hidden blocking when traversing regions) (not really hard, it's just science), but Witcher 2's magic is its high definition artwork. Also, the agreement is on OpenGL 3.1, therefore that means deferred rendering, yes. Tessellation based geometry displacement and LoD system, no.
We'd need to go to 4.0 profile for some of the magic. And most users couldn't run it.
 
5:44 PM
!!Science!!
Also, I have 4.2. Who cares about most users ;)
 
@DomagojPandža I mean, a realistic vision of what it's going to be on that scale :) Not what it could possibly be :)
 
It will be awesome, the question will you use it to its potential is just an artist's decision.
You can use V-ray to render ugly looking shit without any effort or some of the most amazing crap on the planet.
If you provide the model with a scaled base mesh and displacement/normal/spec information from a highly subdivided mesh, I can make it look awesome. If you provide me with 6 triangles on a stick, well.
 
7 triangles on a stick!
 
But get puppy back first.
The reason we're doing this is bonding, not generating bad blood between us.
 
5:50 PM
Is the puppy angry?
 
Enraged puppy! :)
 
I should have taken wagers on that.
 
I certainly am not going to push DeadMG's baby project with him looking from the side angry.
 
I want puppy back, definitely.
 
@ScarletAmaranth I hope he's not with rabies.
 
5:51 PM
@RMartinhoFernandes Just avoid contact in that case ;)
 
I just need to know whether or not we are going to continue. I can use the system I developed for our team communication as "Kyrostat" and open source it to people who need a centralized communication hub for their development.
I'd be more than happy to continue, but if everyone is going to have a field day with those days of the month, well, we'll get nothing done.
 
is there a constexpr number to string function floating around somewhere?
 
No.
That needs dynamic allocation.
 
what? It's Dreamhack day today
 
> Is GCC buggy, or am I ignoring some limitation of variadic templates?
 
5:59 PM
QED.
 
Have you tried logarithms MSVC, Clang?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes even for template parameter size_t?
 
No, I'm feeling lazy.
 
@DeadMG Feeling better?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Let me do that for you
 
5:59 PM
@rubenvb That might be doable. Needs logarithms. // cc @Cicada
 
yeah, it was my own stupid fault, and there's no need for anyone else to feel bad or anything
 
ugh logarithms
 

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