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2:00 AM
@Maxpm: If only all my customers were like you, instead they're like "I've got all my family photos on there!?!?! What are you saying that you can't get them off!?!?"
Or the classic "I run my entire business of this single laptop (and I'm an idiot for having absolutely no contingency plan in case of fire or theft)"
 
@dreamlax well if you're wondering about which approved version of the Holy Standard, then it is C++11, because it was after C++03. but that's not a good way to go about things. the formal is just in support of the in-practice, not opposite!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes Most of it. Lately, I've been noting music I like in a Google Doc so I don't have to find it again if something goes awry.
 
@CheersandhthAlf: In the end I just went with a std::vector just in case, it's only an extra step, but when I asked the question on StackOverflow I got a hoard of people saying what felt like "You're an idiot for using C formatting functions in C++"
 
@dreamlax Yeah. People are really naive with things like hard drive failure. The first time my hard drive failed, I was very surprised. There are often no symptoms beforehand.
 
@dreamlax huh, i guess SO isn't the place to seek good value judgments
 
2:03 AM
@Maxpm: They're getting better now, in Windows 7 at least monitors the SMART attributes of HDDs and can warn if a failure is predicted. This saves a lot of people since at the point where Windows 7 warns people, the hard drive is still in pretty good shape for data recovery
 
but do check out Boost formatting. i think i will do that, one of these days. it's said to be nice.
 
Xeo
Holy crap, nice thunderstorm outside right now
 
I accidentally overwrote my Dell's recovery partition when I was partitioning for Linux. >_>
 
@Xeo jealous
 
@Xeo it is my anger, displaced
 
2:04 AM
I love me some thunderstorms.
 
Xeo
Me too
And the last thunder was increadibly loud
Like a bomb
 
@Maxpm What the heck is a "Dell's recovery partition" good for?
 
Xeo
I'm always going back to being a kid when it comes to thunderstorms
 
@CheersandhthAlf should I use an std::string for a socket buffer?
 
@stdOrgnlDave i would not, but as i understand google api forces that on you
 
2:05 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes: Toshiba's recovery partition re-images the HDD to "out-of-box" state, maybe Dell's is similar
 
@stdOrgnlDave No, you should use a boost::asio::buffer.
@dreamlax Oh, that kind of... thing.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes To be honest, I'm not certain. I think it might contain utilities for repairing Windows if it becomes unbootable, so you don't need an installation disk.
 
it's like, std::string strongly implies that the something is a textual string. it can be abused locally, but i think ungood to abuse it so it's exposed to other code.
 
I always simply nuke whatever comes installed in new machine's hard drives.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes That's a factory for mapping out a range to whatever concepts Boost.Asio requires. It's a non-answer, isn't it?
 
2:06 AM
@CheersandhthAlf aHA, THAT Is the source of it! someone told me to use std::strings and I told them to go fuck themselves, so I asked here and noone could back it up
 
Xeo
@RMartinhoFernandes Aye, I hate preinstalled shit from vendors
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yeah, recently there were changes to Microsoft OEM licensing, I think OEMs weren't allowed to ship recovery CDs any more, so now OEMs have the image as a separate partition on the HDD and allow the customer to burn their own recovery discs
 
I know that there's also a partition reserved for Dell's auto-backup, but I found it too small to be useful. Besides, it's on the same physical hard drive, so it can't protect from physical hard drive failure.
 
Actually, not "recently", it was a few years ago now
 
my laptop's been nagging me for ages to burn recovery disks
hey, you only need to burn 6 to 8 disks!
 
Xeo
2:08 AM
My mind's been nagging me for ages to burn recovery disks
Or make backups in general
 
@dreamlax This machine I'm using is only a week old since I bought it and it came with a recovery disk.
 
@Xeo I don't mind a pre-installed Windows, considering Windows can mess up existing Linux partitions.
 
Toshiba's allow you to use a USB flash drive and boot off that, it's pretty handy and significantly faster than optical media
 
(And possibly a recovery partition too, it did have more than one partition, so it could have been a recovery one)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: It depends on the country you're in too
 
2:08 AM
anyone know when ICC will support trailing types?
 
Xeo
@Maxpm It's not the OS, it's the whole slew of shit that comes from the vendors, like HP Special Awesome Login Manager and the likes
 
@dreamlax Ah, I see.
 
@dreamlax Dell BIOSes can do that, too. At least mine can. I have a few LiveUSBs on my flash drive, managed with YUMI.
 
@Maxpm: Sorry, I meant that rather than creating recovery CD-Rs, you can create recovery USB drives
 
Xeo
2:10 AM
@Maxpm Yay 4 YUMI
 
Almost all BIOSes allow USB booting nowadays
 
What's YUMI?
 
@Xeo Ah, yeah. My computer originally had face recognition software for logging in.
It was fancy, but annoying.
 
Xeo
I have half my USB stick filled with the Windows 7 32bit Installer, ntofflinepasswd and a Linux LiveCD
 
2:11 AM
hey, instead of burning a recovery disk, why not just keep an incremental bootable backup of your drive? personally I have my Windows partition small to keep backups of it fast, and data is done more traditionally
 
@RMartinhoFernandes A "multiboot USB creator". Put some distros on it and you get a menu to select one when you boot from it.
 
but then, I also have 7 external hard drives sitting in front of me, filled with photographs and backups of said photographs
 
Hark
 
Xeo
@Maxpm You can also put OS installer on it
 
2:11 AM
Going to be working on this hw in 20 minutes.
 
Yay! Someone who backs up important things! +1 Gold Star
 
Xeo
@dreamlax It's black to us
 
@Maxpm Ah. I have that but I set it up manually.
 
Xeo
2:12 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes YUMI makes it increadibly easy
 
Having trouble with some of those.
 
Xeo
@CatPlusPlus Hi Cat Drunk Drunk
 
But not home now will be in a few minutes.
 
@CatPlusPlus why are you still conscious
 
Can someone explain the strchr functions, please?
 
2:13 AM
cause am awesome
 
Xeo
@Moshe strchr is rather easy, isn't it?
 
Well, I have to ring this customer now and tell them they've lost their data, here's how it will go:

"Hi it's Dave calling from the service centre here, I've assessed your notebook's hard drive and deemed it inoperable for data recovery, unfortunately in this instance you've lost any data that you had on this hard drive"

"Oh, but what about my photos and stuff?"

"Yes they're gone"

"Oh no!! What about my music and movies at least?"

"Gone sorry"

"This isn't fair! I haven't got any other copies!"
 
What's complicated about the string cherishing function?
 
Getting pointer to char comparison errors.
 
Xeo
@Moshe Code or it didn't happen
 
2:14 AM
how'd you cherish a function
 
Again, not home. Will be soon. Is there code I can refer to anywhere?
 
Xeo
@Moshe Your stdlib
 
It often surprises me how little people know about how their computers work.
 
I'll add code in 20 minutes.
 
Nobody fully understands how their computer works
 
2:16 AM
"What operating system?" "Toshiba." "No, like, Windows Vista, Windows 7...?" "Microsoft." "Microsoft is a company." "Microsoft Word."
Actual exchange.
 
hey guys, does std::sort use an in-place qsort?
 
@Maxpm: I find it interesting that when I say I'm replacing the hard drive, people say "oh so all my data will be safe", but when I'm replacing any other part like the mainboard or the LCD they say "oh no, please don't delete my data!!!"
 
Xeo
@stdOrgnlDave It uses introsort
 
@dreamlax Lol!
 
@Maxpm: I asked someone what OS they were using and they said "Google Bing"
4
 
2:17 AM
@stdOrgnlDave not specified
 
@stdOrgnlDave yes (in practice). which is why std::list has a sort member. which presumably uses a merge sort.
 
@Xeo the standard gives worst case complexity of n*n,intro sort is a nlogn
 
Xeo
Well, most implementations do, I should've said
 
@dreamlax That's not right...that's not even wrong.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Looks like we have a winner:
 
2:18 AM
@Mysticial when!?
 
i used to think there was no advantage to my mother's method of googling "google"
 
and did it crash or compile!?
 
until i noticed that then she got the Google menu bar
dunno why
 
2 hours 55 min.
 
2:19 AM
OMG BABY ROFLCOPTERS!
 
Xeo
@Mysticial What the?
 
@Mysticial what version of ICC you using?
 
@stdOrgnlDave 11.1
 
I kind of feel bad for laughing at people for their computer ineptitude. I mean, I have no idea how the inner workings of a car work.
 
@stdOrgnlDave What? Are you sure?
 
2:20 AM
@Maxpm you don't maintain your own car?
 
@stdOrgnlDave I don't have a car.
 
Do you have a cdr?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes cplusplus.com/reference/algorithm/sort . there's a more authoritative list of std algorithm complexities around somewhere
 
@Xeo so compiling with with -E would show me the standard library, yes?
 
But if I did, I wouldn't care enough to learn more than the bare passing amount.
 
Xeo
2:21 AM
@RMartinhoFernandes That was a bad one.
 
GOsh, don't use cplusplus.com fullofmistakes.com.
2
 
Well, in my output file.
 
Xeo
@stdOrgnlDave How about, the standard? :P
 
Hrm? Cplusplus.com. Why not?
 
Xeo
2:22 AM
120
Q: What's wrong with cplusplus.com?

Kerrek SBThis is perhaps not a perfectly suitable forum for this question, but let me give it a shot, at the risk of being moved away. There are several references for the C++ standard library, including the invaluable ISO standard, MSDN, IBM, cppreference, and cplusplus. Personally, when writing C++ I n...

 
@Moshe Because it's full of mistakes.
 
Heh. Ok.
 
If you want an example, it says that std::sort runs in quadratic time, which is wrong.
 
huh, just one hour ago Someone went and upvoted three answers of mine so that I got three new shiny Enlightened badges!
 
2:22 AM
I didn't notice then, i was so angry for the downvoting elsewher
 
Hah
 
@CheersandhthAlf you used to be such a nice boy
 
@Xeo Luckily, no one else noticed.
 
For the lazy: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/algorithm/sort/

It says:

> In the worst case, up to N2, depending on specific sorting algorithm used by library implementation.
 
2:24 AM
Oh my, "You've earned "Enlightened" and 9 other badges. See your profile."
That's a lot in a day, isn't it?
 
I don't know where the reference list was
@dreamlax I just got yelled at for using cplusplus.com ?
 
@CheersandhthAlf Did someone just like serially upvote your 9-vote answers?
 
yes
seems like it
 
cplusplus.com contains errors but there's still a lot of useful information on that site
Just like Wikipedia
 
@CheersandhthAlf It might get reversed by the serial voting script, but you'll keep the badges.
 
2:27 AM
Anyone remember that password strength tester that was on hacker news a while ago?
 
@dreamlax It's not worth it.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: Yeah there are better sites out there I suppose
 
oh lord, password strength testers...
 
correct horse battery staple!!!
 
I think the most badges I've gotten in a single day was 7.
 
2:28 AM
@dreamlax cppreference.com is better if not only because you can actually fix things.
 
All on the same question though...
 
correct horse batter staple == correct horse battery staple!!!
 
Is there a serial downvote script also?
 
Xeo
Meh, thunderstorm is over. :(
There's a serial vote script
Doesn't matter if up or down
 
2:31 AM
@Xeo Which stlib file contains strchr?
 
My old bank's password policy was that passwords must be between 6 and 8 characters and ONLY contain lowercase letters and have at least 2 numbers
 
@Xeo ah
 
They were my bank for about 1 week
 
Xeo
@Moshe <string.h>
 
@dreamlax Oh, don't get me started on banks.
Banks are the worst offenders.
I'm not going to rant.
 
2:32 AM
How can banks be the worst offenders when it comes to security?
 
Rant for me, please. I have a bank account that requires my password not be greater than something like 9 characters.
 
FUCK PASSWORDS does a much better job at ranting about this than I do.
 
I don't understand why there is an upper limit on a password length anyway. Minimum I can kinda understand but a MAXIMUM?
"We don't have space to store hashes greater than a certain value" ?
 
@dreamlax There has to be some maximum.
 
Yeah, 4kiB.
 
2:34 AM
Heh, in a [clc++m] posting I guessed that Johannes would probably be answering with "template<typename T> using Identity = T;" so I wouldn't. And now it's there. :-) My article hasn't appeared yet.
 
Hmm...maybe it's not such a bad thing. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure the the bank's bad policies are why I'm broke. They need to give me back all the money that went out of my account for the last 20 years until they can provide real proof that I was the one who spent it.
 
Holy shit, cppreference has a store?
 
@Xeo - Here's the code:
const char* mycstring::mystrchr(const char *str, int c){
        if (str=="") return NULL;
        else if (*str==c) return *str;
        else return mystrchr(str+1, c);
}

char* mycstring::mystrchr (char *str, int c){
        if (str=="") return NULL;
        else if (str[0] == (char) c)
                return str;
        else return mystrchr(str+1, c);
}
What's wrong with those functions?
 
unless they're storing your passwords in plaintext, there should be no maximum length
 
@JamesCuster: Yes but it doesn't have to be arbitrary
 
2:35 AM
 
@JerryCoffin They can't prove it? Sue them!
 
@dreamlax They're not going to let you set a 4 GB password.
 
@stdOrgnlDave There will always be, at least to prevent DOSing them.
 
std::shirt.push_back()
 
why not? the hash still comes out to 128 or 160 bits
 
2:35 AM
@Pubby, I like your gravatar. I don't know if I ever mentioned that.
 
Xeo
@dreamlax That sounds like one of those "kick me!" papers you put on the back of someone...
 
@Xeo: exactly!
 
Feb 5 at 19:21, by Maxpm
@Pubby I like your icon.
 
@Pubby Never noticed that before. :)
 
:)
 
2:37 AM
Well then.
 
I want a tie that says std::tie
 
Anyone know why this line is:
 
@RMartinhoFernandes that guy at that link is a complete fool, except he's right that banks suck
 
> Part of a stylish outfit. Don't forget to #include <pants> as well.
 
#exclude <pants>
sorry, plagiarizing the robot
 
2:38 AM
@Pubby What about socks that say std::pair?
 
oh wait it's not a person no apology needed
 
Or marriage rings.
 
@JamesCuster: if someone wants to sit at their computer logging into their internet banking and waiting for their 4GB password to upload I don't see why that shouldn't be allowed
 
const char* mycstring::mystrchr(const char *str, int c){
if (str=="") return NULL;
else if (str==(char)c)
return *new char value;
else mystrchr(str+1, c);
}
Anyone know why this won't compile?
 
@Maxpm I want a whole std outfit!
The underpants can just say std
 
2:38 AM
@dreamlax Do you also complain that Google docs doesn't let you store 10 TB of files on your account?
 
"ISO C++ forbids comparison between pointer and integer"
 
@Pubby Lmao.
 
I think if (str =="") isn't doing what you think it's doing
@JamesCuster: That's different, they need to actually store the data
 
@dreamlax I agree.
 
Nobody should be storing passwords at all
 
2:39 AM
@Moshe str == (char)c doesn't make sense as a comparison. Perhaps you meant *str == c.
 
@dreamlax You have to send the data to the bank's server... ?
 
if you HAD to do it that way it would be if (!strcmp(str,""))
but that wuld be dumb
 
@JamesCuster: And it can hash it as it comes in!
 
@LucDanton that causes: invalid conversion from ‘const char’ to ‘const char*’
 
@Moshe Are you sure that's an error for that line?
 
2:40 AM
@dreamlax unless your bank is really retarded you are not sending your password to them ever
 
@dreamlax Yes, and it gets a worker stuck hashing it for hours.
 
If not, then I wouldn't say my fix 'causes' that error. It was here to begin with ;)
 
Now add more fancy-password-pants users.
 
OK OK it was an argument for fun, yes, there should be a limit on the length of the password but it should be significantly greater than 8 or 9
32 KiB maybe
No, 33 KiB
 
@LucDanton Yep.
 
2:42 AM
@stdOrgnlDave He's not a complete fool: "Conclusion: everything is fucked and i hate computers."
 
@LucDanton Line 23 is this one:
else if (*str==c) return *str;
 
@dreamlax 8 or 9 orders of magnitude!
 
@Moshe will you put it into an ideone please and I'll take a look at it?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Why?
 
@stdOrgnlDave Thanks.
 
2:43 AM
@Moshe *str in return *str; has type const char, yet the function returns const char*. So not from my fix.
 
By the way the code you showed us didn't look like that (i.e. all that on one line).
 
@JamesCuster because then any MITM could just take your password
 
@RMartinhoFernandes: the very first password I ever used was at my high school, it was "sausage2000"
This was back 10 to 15 years or so
 
Btw, the other functions are not correct.
 
2:45 AM
@stdOrgnlDave As opposed to the hash they can send themselves?
 
and it's too long for @GManNickG's bank today
 
*dest=*src does not copy a string
 
And no that's not my password for anything that I use today
 
In cryptography, a zero-knowledge password proof (ZKPP) is an interactive method for one party (the prover) to prove to another party (the verifier) that it knows a value of a password, without revealing anything other than the fact that it knows that password to the verifier. The term is defined in IEEE P1363.2, in reference to one of the benefits of using a password-authenticated key agreement (PAKE) protocol that is secure against off-line dictionary attacks. A ZKPP prevents any party from verifying guesses for the password without interacting with a party that knows it and, in the opti...
 
@stdOrgnlDave Which line?
 
2:48 AM
@Moshe line 6. in fact basically none of those work
 
I just went to change my password on the bank I mentioned previously, and sure enough this is what I see:
(I added DIE of course.) 5-10 characters, letters and numbers only. FOR WHAT REASON?
 
To log in to my bank I need to use a 6-digit code.
But they use two-factor authentication.
 
@stdOrgnlDave Right.
Let's just say it's HW in progress. Where would I find psuedocode for those?
 
@Moshe sorry I'm not being helpful. just do some research on c-strings
google what is a c-string
 
@GManNickG 36^10 is brute-forcable. Unless they allow lower/upper
 
2:50 AM
Woah, @JerryCoffin the error really was on line 42. Are you a wizard?
 
Depending on the operation, I need to provide a number from a given cell in a matrix I possess, or to input a code they send me through an SMS.
 
Heck, 62^10 is also on the upper limit of brute-forcable by today's standards...
 
@Pubby He's got 'Coffin' in his handle. He's clearly using black magic.
 
The fact that my password has length 6 and can only use numbers doesn't bother me much.
 
My de facto password is 14 characters long, uses all kinds of character.
 
2:51 AM
@LucDanton Let's burn him at the stake!
 
@stdOrgnlDave That's apparently an underclothing fashion. Not going to get my HW done like that.
 
@JamesCuster that wiki link was in answer to you
 
@GManNickG How so? Isn't it limited to 10?
 
lol
@moshe join me in the C lounge
 
I use about 10 different passwords for various important things. They're all 15 - 25 characters long...
 
2:52 AM
@stdOrgnlDave Link please?
 
@RMartinhoFernandes I meant everywhere else. Coincidentally and lucky for me, it's actually 7 repeated twice, the second time holding shift. :) So the first 7 work in all the places that have strange limitations, being only letters and numbers and not too long.
 
@stdOrgnlDave You are saying they should be utilizing a different security protocol than simply a password, right?
 
Oh.
I use poems for the passwords I memorize.
 
@Moshe ISTR you covered arrays in your course previously. If that's the case, you can consider [const] char* as a pointer into an array of [const] char, except that the length is a bit roundabout to obtain. Would that help?
 
@moshe I have just summoned you
@JamesCuster a zero-knowledge password proof is the protocol for safely using a password
 
2:53 AM
So, 14 characters sounds like a joke.
 
@RMartinhoFernandes really, i gotta go check that one out :))
 
My password takes 35 billion years to crack
 
@Pubby: what is it?
 
@LucDanton Yea, somewhat. thanks.
 
@Pubby not with cloud computing
 
2:54 AM
@johnathon Sorry, what are you referring to?
 
@johnathon Don't forget big data!
 
@RMartinhoFernandes ah something old, about cppreference.com i belive
 
@dreamlax I will tell you in 35 billion years :)
 
@johnathon Most cloud computing isn't webscale.
 
@Pubby: lol good one!
 
2:56 AM
I should go change my password to "I will tell you in 35 billion years :)"
 
@RMartinhoFernandes true, however i was reading a blog post today about the GPGPU cloud emergence, and there's no telling how much is really out there in the industry, but even a small teir cloud using GPGPU could pop most hashses in no time, the idea of vector computing to perform such tasks has been around for a minute , back when an Australian proved that the processor in the ps3 could crack md5 hashes in 1/3rd the time of traditional ways.
 
GPGPU isn't webscale.
(Seriously, google "webscale" before replying again)
 
@RMartinhoFernandes check out herb stutters web blog, he beggs to differ. im only refering to whats on his post man
 
@johnathon The 35 billion years apparently takes into account GPGPU stuff
 
"GPGU is webscale" -- Herb Sutter.
 
2:59 AM
I wonder how many people actually have the password "hunter2"
 
@dreamlax How do you know my password?!
 

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