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1:00 PM
@Fanael lol
 
@thecoshman If you have a lot of time between sessions, it's probably a good idea to keep a record of important events. Then when you meet again you'll probably want to take the first five or so minutes to do a short recap. Try to end each session in some checkpoint-y point, like the end of a single adventure. Then there should not be much to recap besides listing what was accomplished so far.
 
i know you missed my updates :)
Minicraft powered by Lundiā„¢
 
I counter you with
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes what about xp for the players? the core book seems to imply that the missions you set the players on have rather clearly defined ways of earning XP, with ways of over-achieving to get more XP (such as transporting the cargo faster then required)
 
using std := cpp("WideLibrary/test.h").std;
Main() {
    vec := std.vector!(sample)();
    vec.push_back(sample());
    vec.back().x = 5;
    std.cout << vec.front().x;
}
type sample {
    x := std.string();
    y := int8();
}
 
1:05 PM
what's ! ?
some sort of member access?
 
I replaced <> with it for now
 
like empty <>?
 
no
 
@BartekBanachewicz !() is <>.
 
std.vector!(sample) = std::vector<sample>.
 
1:06 PM
ah ok.
 
@BartekBanachewicz When do we get to recreate processors inside of minicraft? :P
 
originally I just had std.vector(sample), but it turns out that's ambiguous in a few cases.
 
@DeadMG What's with the trailing .std in cpp(/*path*/).std btw? First time I notice it, not sure what it means.
 
@Borgleader when I code redstone in Lua. Or anyone does, for that matter. Modding!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes ah, change for changes sake
 
1:06 PM
@LucDanton The object returned by cpp(path) represents the global namespace, so .std represents the std namespace inside that TU.
@thecoshman More like, because <> is horrifically ambiguous?
 
@thecoshman No, it isn't. <> is the source of a bunch of ambiguities in the grammar.
 
you mean a<3> b?
 
@DeadMG Does using have other meanings atm?
 
@BartekBanachewicz if anyone can modify the lua scripts wont that be a problem when you implement servers?
 
@LucDanton Nope, only using x := y;
strictly
 
1:08 PM
@Borgleader not at all? It will be much easier than with vanilla mc, since, you won't have to have plugins installed by hand on client; they will be downloaded from server automagically.
 
but I believe that in the current implementation, you could do something silly like using four := 2 + 2; and using sample_ty := sample;.
 
(server-side plugins ofc)
 
@thecoshman With infrequent sessions you probably want to make sure they get enough XP per session to have significant impact (like enough for leveling up or buying a skill or whatever depending how the XP system works). Getting a bunch of XP that has no real impact until you collect some more months later sucks.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes it is? what else is it used for?
 
@thecoshman less than?
 
1:09 PM
@thecoshman Comparisons.
 
Oh so you'll have multiple sets of scripts? One for local play, and one per server you've joined?
 
To be clear: cpp is not side-effecty and doesn't populate the global namespace (or Wide equivalent), right?
 
@Borgleader mhm. That's the easiest way for users and admins. You are not afraid of trying out new modded server, because it's basically sandboxed. Just plug and play.
 
@LucDanton Right.
 
@DeadMG derp :(
 
1:09 PM
if you want a function in the C++ global namespace, you have to do cpp(path).f(), say, or using x := cpp(path); f() { x.f(); }.
 
I cant work for shit anymore. Im just redditing at this point.
 
@DeadMG s/x/test/?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes yeah, I kind of think I would be better letting them earn XP as the game goes along, say after a big shoot out, dish a small round of XP, give the players a chance to sort out some skills. Rather then wait till the end of a session... will have to see how it goes. Hopefully will get at least monthly sessions
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeahp
 
@thecoshman Well, really try to use the first one or two sessions to gauge what they like. When we started we were doing XP by the book, but then I quickly changed to being very ad-hoc about it. Eventually we ended up actually playing a campaign that pretty much had no XP system at all. That was fun, but I only ran that game because I knew it would work with that group.
 
user1357851
1:15 PM
Why are people against PHP, PHP is no better or worse than say perl or python or ASP for that matter
 
user1357851
PHP is PHP
 
@Borgleader Ages ago a ALU was build in MC. It worked like a charm, pretty impressive. The step from ALU to CPU isn' t that big, is it?
 
@Telkitty it is worse
 
@Cheiron no no, noting at all like the step from a bacteria to you, to humans
 
user1357851
than what?
 
1:17 PM
@Cheiron after you have a NAND gate everything is possible :P. In vanilla mc it's just impractical though (outside creative)
@Telkitty python and ruby
I am still not settled on capabilities of redstone in Minicraft. It will be more powerful than vanilla, but that's all I have now
 
Damn, I read that as "to you, humans" and thought you outed yourself as an extra-dimensional being.
 
What excactly is the Gallery Mode trial run? I know what gallery mode is, and we've used it a few times.. So why a "trial"?
 
because we want to see if it works out
and if it does, we keep it, else we revert
 
You mean turning on Gallery Mode permanently?
 
Xeo
ya
 
1:20 PM
@StackedCrooked Yeah. It seems that one of our troll have pushed us over the limit.
 
@TonyTheLion I don't mind.
 
@StackedCrooked Cool
6: 5
 
Xeo
7:5, no?
We're 12
 
We're the 1%
 
Xeo
1:21 PM
And it was 6:6 earlier
 
oh yea that
 
But that means new cool people might never have a chance to join the club.
 
so we can do the switcheroo
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked We let everyone in
 
1:21 PM
@Xeo unity.
 
who wants the honors?
 
Xeo
And kick them out if necessary.
 
@StackedCrooked There's usually an owner or two around
 
@StackedCrooked We'll have to counter it with a very large pin that says: "If you want to talk, just request access and we will grant it."
 
1:22 PM
Comment on the rules guys
room mode changed to Gallery: anyone may enter, but only approved users can talk
 
here we go. First post of new times.
 
Due to our recent problems with trolls, we are currently in a trial run for Gallery Mode. If you want to talk, just request access and we will grant it.
 
Add the link to hints
We'll replace the other one with this
 
@Mysticial too long
 
That's not going to fit. Perhaps shorten first sentence to "Currently in a trial run for Gallery Mode."?
 
1:25 PM
> hi Telkitty
lol
 
Hang on while I figure out how to phrase it.
 
just drop "currently"
 
@Mysticial Is it really that big of a problem?
 
If you want to talk, just request access and we will grant it. Read this first!
 
That works too.
 
1:25 PM
Brevity.
 
TIL I'm a violator of most of our rules.
 
Tis a draft
 
nah. Explicit privileges
 
I really liked the wording of the old newbie hints. The new one is kind of harsh.
 
@StackedCrooked Yeah, well, they're from the cat so
 
1:27 PM
It needs to be terse and to the point, so there's no lawyering and bloo blooing
 
I don't really care at all but I suggest we soften the tone of the rules, we're not at the military camp
 
Feel free to word it better vOv
Rules are rules
 
What does that even mean
 
I don't really see what to soften
First two points are like 80% of the reason we're doing this
 
@Cheiron We've had one recurring troll that has been, to say the least, very problematic. And after numerous warnings and both kind (and unkind) requests to leave, the user has persisted in making this room not the comfortable place that it used to be.
 
1:29 PM
Oh wow, now the room has a restricted access.
 
@Mysticial Who are you talking about?
 
And if you're thinking that "don't do this" is harsh then welp I don't know what to say
 
@CatPlusPlus I think it is a fair wording
 
Just a wild guess - Telkitty?
 
> entitlted
 
1:30 PM
Is this a comfortable place?!
 
Where will we get all the lolz if not out of the "please my Java code is not working and the Java room is empty. HELPZ ME" questions ?
 
Telkitty. She was the worst persistent troll we ever had as far back as I can remember. Things got better when she got herself question-banned on SO, but it's escalating again.
@ereOn We'll allow first-timers. But if they stick around to dump crap, we'll pull it.
 
user1357851
I am not asking questions because I don't have to
 
Maybe "no trolling" should be a hard rule too
 
You may have to kick yourself out then
 
1:32 PM
Wait, someone put Telkitty on write?
 
Xeo
Erm. Who put it on write access?
 
The occasional troll is fun! Persistent is not.
 
Wasn't me.
@MartinJames Agreed.
 
I tried adding ereOn (back where he asked) but I think someone got there before me. Perhaps related?
 
I totally didn't press the button there that says "write access"
 
1:33 PM
@LucDanton I beat you to it.
 
@Mysticial I was in the... code shower ;_;.
 
Okay I did
 
Why?
 
Fresh start?
 
@CatPlusPlus You! Of all people!
 
1:34 PM
I wasn't around when the things happened I don't know
I think we should have hard rules before kicking anyone
 
For the curious guy that I am: what does this admin/moderator access panel look like ?
 
TIL cat has a soft spot in his heart
 
He's right. Define rules before enforcing them.
 
@ereOn It's boring actually. The access tab has downvote buttons next to every user.
 
yeah.
 
1:34 PM
ITT turning gallery mode on to add all the trolls
 
sure
 
I've got a better idea. Create a Lounge<Elite> room or something with exclusive limited user access rights, and leave this room as a relaxed casual place people can join and talk in if they want
 
the first rule is: "Don't permit Telkitty".
 
Everyone can join
 
@jalf This is just a trial run for now.
We'll see how it goes for a few days.
 
1:35 PM
@jalf I hadn't considered a two-step system.
 
@Mysticial And I'm just saying it's a terrible idea
 
Wasn't my idea though.
 
surely that's what trial runs are for
 
Don't like the idea of an 'Elite' room :(
 
@Mysticial you accidentally a word
 
1:35 PM
It's a workaround for no banning capability
 
@CatPlusPlus IMO it's a workaround with an unacceptable downside
 
@BartekBanachewicz dammit... I drop packets too often.
 
@jalf Indeed they are.
 
The only downside is that you have to wait 10 minutes for someone to set the access rights
 
@CatPlusPlus no
the only downside is that it fundamentally changes what this room is
 
1:36 PM
Yes
 
Turning it into something I have no interest in participating in
 
if the rest of you want it, that's fine, but it's not the room I joined
 
What if there was a /ban and we were operating in public mode?
 
Lounge with bouncers. Kinda like the first-class lounge at Heathrow.
 
1:37 PM
@CatPlusPlus That would be fantastic, but we don't have /ban
 
I don't follow the logic here
Because hey, that's exactly what this is
 
@DeadMG Hypotheticals.
 
user142019
Hello.
 
Workaround to be able to ban people that don't want to chat relaxed and only disrupt the experience for others
 
Why don't we just use ignore lists?
 
user142019
1:38 PM
I have new shoes.
 
My logic is fairly simple: this room has historically had very relaxed rules and had no barrier to entry. You can join, you can talk, and you don't need anyone's permission. Turning it into a place for only approved members turns it into a closed circle for us
 
That doesn't work, always someone replies and it just goes on and on and on
 
@Pubby Because we can't automatically ignore people for other people
 
There is no barrier for entry
 
user142019
Oh gallery mode. :L
 
1:38 PM
if you join the chat and you see some person that I plonked who posted something shite
 
We're approving everyone who tries to talk
 
you're not gonna know that everyone else has plonked them
 
@CatPlusPlus Having to ask someone if you can please say something is a barrier for entry
5
 
@DeadMG Make a bot that tells people to ignore someone when they post, hehehe.
 
actually, I think that an auto-binning bot might work
2
 
1:39 PM
Registering on SO is a barrier for entry
 
user142019
@Pubby I had the idea for a binbot.
 
Getting 15 rep is a barrier for entry
 
What @jalf is saying
 
@DeadMG I like that idea.
Can we build one?
 
This is completely different
 
1:39 PM
@CatPlusPlus Whatever, I'm not a room owner any more, do with it whatever the fuck you like, I'm out
 
@jalf I think the 'trial' part is putting that to the challenge. There's no other way to test it, is there?
 
@Mysticial I thought about that too.
 
user142019
@CatPlusPlus wasn't it 20?
 
But really, what if we could ban people instead?
 
@Mysticial we can build everything. A lot of nice people there.
 
1:40 PM
@jalf I don't think a barrier is a bad thing. They can still lurk for a while and see if they like this room. Then it's up to them to decide whether they want to join.
 
You'd be out too?
 
@Mysticial The JS room maybe
 
Also I can't get minicraft to look properly
 
Also you only requested the agreement of 7 of the owners of this room, completely disregarding what non-owners thought
 
user142019
1:41 PM
@Mysticial I once wrote a Greasemonkey script that could automatically reply to messages.
 
@kbok This room has always operated that way.
 
user142019
Butā€¦ I deleted it. :facepalm:
 
i found that Steve has eyes at 1.62m on Reddit
but I think my perspective is bad and he still feels too short
 
@DeadMG This room has always disregarded the opinion of anyone who's not an owner? That's new to me
 
user142019
Writing a bot for Stack Exchange Chat isn't too difficult though.
 
1:42 PM
@rightfold you can modify this: github.com/Zirak/SO-ChatBot
 
@kbok I dunno, I'm one of the newest room owners.
 
@kbok We don't disregard it. Anyone who was in the room could have spoken up one way or another. But this place is not a democracy- the only people with final votes are owners.
 
user142019
@Pubby Niceee.
 
user142019
My new Vans are magnifique.
 
I see you've added "request access." To keep away all the drive-by-ers?
 
1:43 PM
When you join an IRC room, there might be rules and you can be banned for not following them.
 
@Doorknob We're trial testing gallery mode.
 
Same for forums
Same for the goddamn Stack Overflow the big site next door
 
But we're gonna see if we can build an auto-binning bot.
 
ah, so basically a chat banning system @Cat
 
@Mysticial Wait, are we in gallery mode now?
 
1:44 PM
@Borgleader Yes.
 
I'd MUCH prefer the an auto-binning bot than gallery mode.
 
This is registration not ~~~~~~~~~~~barrier of entry~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
@JerryCoffin How come I didn't have to request access this morning like that other time we used gallery mode?
 
@ScottW Read-only until approved to post (by a room owner).
 
@ScottW Only approved users can talk. Right now, we're approving everybody who isn't a troll.
 
user142019
1:45 PM
@Mysticial what would it bin?
 
@Borg you're an owner I think
 
@Borgleader You're already on the list
 
@DeadMG Fair enough - I'm speaking up. I think this is a bit of an asshole thing to do. The fact that you pin a message saying "request access" doesn't change the fact that you have to ask permission to speak
 
We don't remove anyone from it
 
@Doorknob Hahaha, I'm not an owner
 
1:45 PM
Wait, is it even possible to remove people?
 
@Borg oh ok
 
This is entirely equivalent to registering before participating
 
@CatPlusPlus Right. But jalf can still be against everything you mentioned and this might just be the last drop. Not the first.
 
@ScottW I approve you <3
 
@kbok I doubt anybody likes it (creates extra work for owners), but seems to be necessary.
 
1:46 PM
oh gawd
all hell broke loose?
 
user142019
Now trolls will just go to the second most active room aka C# lol. Or JavaScript.
 
@JerryCoffin It "seems" to be necessary because some people here find it unsufferable that we talk to someone they plonked
 
@LucDanton I'm saying that this is not ~~~~elitism~~~~ he makes it to be, but w/e I'm not going to write an essay about that
 
@TonyTheLion s/o/oo/
 
1:47 PM
@rightfold The problem with the current chat systems is that we can't ban people. An auto-binning bot will allow us to do that without gallery mode.
 
user142019
@Mysticial ah, so you tell it which people to autobin.
 
@rightfold yay, dump all the trolls in another room so we don't have to take care of them :D
 
@rightfold Correct.
 
user142019
I can write that.
 
user142019
Can't host it though.
 
1:47 PM
@Mysticial ooh that's nice, but then wouldn't the room be filled with "binned" messages?
 
@Mysticial well, they would still spam the room with "message moved" messages. Unless you plonk the bot.
 
@rightfold I can FWIW
 
dump all the trolls in the real c++ room xD
 
@Doorknob you can ignore the bot
 
user142019
@Doorknob the bot will immediately edit those into random standard quotes.
 
1:48 PM
lol
 
@CatPlusPlus Ya the whole Lounge<Elitist> or whatever quip was very trollish. The position (which I hopefully didn't misrepresent) is still sound though. If anything, take away from this that on the matter of gallery mode jalf is not for. Which was the point of asking/trialing.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes After a few messages, we'll assume the troll will just leave.
 
@Pubby oh, I did not think of that :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes plonking the bot seems reasonable
 
user142019
I'll write the bot with Sandbox room.
 
1:49 PM
kewl
 
the bot could edit every "moved" message automatically into "please ignore me, I am a bot"
 
user142019
Oh shit I'm not an owner of Sandbox.
 
Go Zoidberg
 
yea you need to be an owner
 
user142019
Oh wellā€¦ will create a new sandbox. ^^
 
1:49 PM
@rightfold make a new "bot-writing" room :P
 
user142019
Or Java Sucks room.
 
@rightfold just put it on gh/bitbucket
 
@rightfold I may be able to help if you don't choose a shitty language
Or just ask the android guys they have one
 
so we can read the source and contribute
 
Actually yes write a bot
 
user142019
1:50 PM
I was thinking of writing it as a Greasemonkey script and run it in Chrome since that'd make authentication easy.
 
Maybe THIS would get attention
 
@kbok They have an autobinning bot? Why don't they use it?
 
@Mysticial They have a bot, not sure if autobinning
 
I'd rather have banning capability that doesn't require preapproval too
 
1:50 PM
@Mysticial they don't have an autobinning bot, just a normal bot
 
@Doorknob ah
 
@kbok It's more that we can't stop new people getting a negative impression by seeing the posts of people that we have decided don't meet our standards.
like the robot, for example
 
@CatPlusPlus if this autobinning bot works that's basically what it will do
 
it will work and it will be awesome
 
It will do something
 
1:51 PM
@DeadMG A room in gallery mode also give a negative impression IMO
 
yes
that's why I'd rather another solution
the autobinning bot seems to be the only viable alternative
 
@kbok Which is why it seems me (most of us actually) are in favor of an auto-binning bot.
 
@kbok this is just a temporary "AHH panic" solution because the bot is not ready yet
 
I'm all in for the bot also bots are cool
 
it's way cooler to say "we set up a lazor cannon for noobs" than "we have to get gallery mode" @Xeo
 
1:52 PM
Or we could just go back to IRC I guess
 
PEOPLE: STOP PANICKING, ITS ONLY A TRIAL RUN OF GALLERY MODE
 
but we can't use an autobinning bot until the bot, y'know, exists.
 
oh fuck
LOL
We gave it to Zoidberg
 
@TonyTheLion Pinned because that's important.
 
gave what to Zoidberg
 
1:52 PM
@Mysticial yes
 
so there it goes for seeing it finished
@DeadMG task of writing a bot
 
People don't fuss over being able to be banned there at least
 
lol, oh yea, good point
 
I miss the simplicity of IRC :(
 
I haven't seen Zoidberg in ages
 
1:53 PM
rightfold is Zoidberg
 
@DeadMG lol
 
oh, right.
 
@DeadMG he changed name once again
 
nobody told me this
 
GZ.
he first changed the av, also his GH is named rightfold
 
1:53 PM
in that case
 
@DeadMG Ages is also the amount of time it will take him to get the project ready.
 
definitely insert joke about how Zoidberg won't get it finished, ever.
 
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
so there it goes for seeing it finished
 
Zoidberg won't finish
 
if he puts it on some SCM we can finish it for him
 
1:54 PM
in certain contexts, that's funnier than it looks at first
I'm bad :|
 
@TonyTheLion I think everyone knows what context you are talking about.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I had no doubts, but I thought I'd be very explicitly clear, well, kind of
lolwut
 
in Android People, 22 mins ago, by Telkitty
Lounge without trolls will simple die
Yeah no
 
I just saw the same
and thought the same
 

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