« first day    last day (9 days later) » 

8:00 AM
@Cerbrus So what do you propose we do?
Shog already said if we get into edit wars again with the question he'll suspend people
 
Morning :) ... I missed a whole bunch of "fun", eh?
 
and I think defying the CEO will mean more then a week's suspension.
 
@Cerbrus Butthurt people everywhere.
 
Take a look about this meta meta about joel's post
62
Q: Should "Time to take a stand" question be closed / moved?

Maroun MarounPlease read the question carefully, I'm NOT requesting removing the post Joel Spolsky posted a very touching and inspiring post: Time to take a stand. On one hand, I really appreciate his stance and his courage, and I truely agree with all that he said (I don't want to add more to avoid convert...

 
@Magisch Which is quite stupid, tbh.
 
8:02 AM
"close it" significantly outnumbers "keep it open".
 
@Cerbrus Mhm. What's to stop Joel from answering "No, it won't" and then ignoring that advice?
 
Yep.
 
@Magisch Common sense?
 
Besides, what is the point of the meta post by joel again?
"EVERYTHING'S TERRIBLE" - And now?
What does he expect the community to do?
 
You can assume if Joel felt strongly enough about posting this in complete defiance of precedent and current policy to do it that he'll keep it.
 
8:03 AM
If he wants to force his opinion on the community like that, he can, but that doesn't mean he should.
 
^
Yes, and that is precisely what pisses me off @Magisch
 
@Magisch I'd expect him to be more open to opinions than that.
 
We have policies, and the general community stance on politics is "Get that shit out of my face".
 
I'm not saying I'm for or against the sentiment of the post. just that Meta.SO is not the place.
 
Meaning I'd very much appreciate it if the god damn CEO of SO could keep his opinion to himself, or voice it on the blog.
3
Yup.
 
8:04 AM
Exactly
He gets plenty of traffic on his blog.
 
@Cerbrus Why do you keep thinking rationality is still in this debate if the opening statement is "everyone who doesn't share this opinion disgusts me and is immoral"?
 
@Magisch Call me an optimist.
 
I'm shocked still that the post hasn't been auto-deleted from rude/abusive flags.
 
@4castle try that and you'll probably get a year of time out and they'll just restore it
 
Unless Joel agrees, it will not disappear I fear.
 
8:06 AM
It's like spam flagging a moderator post
 
@Magisch dictatorship much?
 
technically possible, but a very unwise thing to do
@Cerbrus SO has been described as benevolent dictatorship before.
 
I'm not one to call "mod abuse" often. Frankly, I hate the term, but that would be abuse of privilege.
 
@Magisch are you sure about that?
 
Sure, Another mod re-opened the meta.
 
8:08 AM
@ayhan No. I can't be. Nobody's done it
 
But the ones who voted to close weren't suspended right?
 
I voted, am still here.
but maybe I'm tempting faith a little:
In addition to the chat room, there's also discussion about this specific meta question on another meta question. — Cerbrus 55 secs ago
I'm pretty sure they won't suspend me for that, though. It's just a "heads up".
 
That is the same link
as in the comment
by shog
 
Oh derp
 
Yeah that post is already linked.
 
8:10 AM
deleted
 
@Cerbrus =D
 
Lundin commented there...
 
Yep =|
 
4 hours ago, by Shog9
If I wake up and find y'all arguing in comments again or getting into edit wars, I'll either lock the post or suspend whoever is involved. Not joking. Write answers.
 
votes aren't mentioned :D
 
8:12 AM
As in, no, they weren't.
 
But then the answers which are better suited as comments are being deleted by moderators.
 
Times like these I wish I had a nuke button...
 
@Seth Call Trump, he does :D
 
Nuke a question to oblivion, making it non-restorable...
@Cerbrus Good point ô.ô
Where is the server that has this question on it? :p
 
I wouldn't try and abusive nuke a post by the CEO though
If you love your account
 
8:16 AM
I would willingly sacrifice this account if I could make that abomination disappear forever.
3
:)
 
8:37 AM
> If you can't talk about Brexit without insulting the intelligence or integrity of those who disagree with you, then don't talk about Brexit. (source)
4
> Carving up the world into us vs. them, building walls, and demonizing religions, nations, and refugees is both morally repugnant and frankly stupid and counterproductive, (source)
3
> You don't have to feign respect for anyone, @canon. If you can't respect others in a conversation, then either ask them to take the conversation elsewhere, flag it, or leave. Or all three. What doesn't work here is spewing vitriol and expecting that to be ok because you're "Right". [...] (source)
2
 
OK, I have been asleep for 8 hours. Anyone for a TL;DR?
 
user4639281
Politics sucks
 
Can't really give you a TL;DR, have been reading the past 2 hours, so far nothing "new".
Apart from what Tiny said.
 
> So don't respect 'em then, @Zach. [...] If you want honest and open communication, you have to grant others that as well: if you want to dish out hard truths, then be willing to listen; if you want to express your PoV then let others do the same. If you can't do that - and I'll be the first to admit, there are topics where I cannot - then that's not a conversation that's gonna produce anything of value here.
 
@TinyGiant OK, that will do for my opinion for today. Thanks for starting my Monday ... cya...
 
user4639281
8:44 AM
o/
 
9:10 AM
Whoever declined my flag for locking the post for historical reasons, trust me: it will go down in history :)
 
It really bothers me that mods keep reopening the question. Why? What's in for them? Also, Tiny Giant tries to improve the wording, gets rolled back by a mod, only for another mod to edit the question themselves later and remove "frankly stupid"? (meta.stackoverflow.com/posts/342440/revisions). Sorry if you've discussed this at length already ;)
2
 
Maybe it's time to post a "in spirit of a recent Joel's post on MSO, I'm raising awareness of another dangerous fact. <lengthy rant about global warming / propagating a minority religion / pro-life or pro-choice / ...>"
4
 
@MathiasMüller This is really unnerving for a user of this site, they say that this site is driven by the community and every time the community moves to close the question the mods just opens it up, how exactly is this site run by the community, how different are the mods from the tyrannical madman they supposedly opposing? You are shoving down your choice on others
 
@JanDvorak Gender! Don't forget gender! And pronouns!
I honestly wouldnt have that big of a problem with this being posted on meta
 
@JanDvorak maybe I can create another post about all the political instability in my country
 
9:23 AM
if it would actually say something like "Your opinion?" or "I want to ask you to do ..."
 
nitpick: Only 3 of the 12 times the post has been reopened, a binding-ness of a moderator vote has made the difference. The 9 other times, any moderator votes were no more relevant than they would have been from a normal user. The rate of accumulation of close votes versus reopen votes suggests it would remain open regardless.
3
 
But not the "Everything's shit, and everyone who has a different opinion is stupid".
 
@JeremyBanks Do mods get multiple re-open votes on a single question?
 
What's the chance this question wouldn't have got nearly this much attention if it wasn't posted by a prominent member of the dev team?
 
(I've only seen mods vote for it once per user (moderator))
@JanDvorak Over 9000. It'd be closed and deleted. "So is not the place"
 
9:28 AM
@Cerbrus They have the ability to cast multiple. I don't think any have yet in this case.
 
@JeremyBanks Then that's 3 times too many, don't you think? Mods know the rules better than anyone else, why would they turn a blind eye in this specific case? It's ridiculous, after everything Shog has said on respectful discourse and discussing politics, you know this.
 
@JeremyBanks Yea, that hasn't been the case, yet. Preferably, I'd like to see mods refraining from reopen-voting when they've done so before.
 
@MathiasMüller Do you need someone to spell it out for you? Because the guy who makes the rules posted it (thats joel)
 
In the spirit of community and all that.
 
Holy moly, it has been exhausting reading 1000+ messages and trying to get caught up. But here I am.
 
9:31 AM
well, at least it's obvious that 1) the post is against the rules (would be mildly less so on MSE), 2) attracts lots of heat, and 3) most people want it open anyways, given the reopen speeds.
 
"most people want it open anyways" Not if you look at the "Should it be open?" meta question
 
True. "Most people > 3k on SO"?
 
@JanDvorak Not sure what you're saying there..?
 
OK. Lemme scratch my observations.
 
For better or worse, I think it's unlikely that any post with a thousand upvotes in the last day would remain closed.
 
9:35 AM
The situation isn't so unfamiliar for me, anyway.
 
@JeremyBanks Yes, but I am sure you are aware that a large number of upvotes does not make a post on-topic, right? If anything, mods should use their hammer abilities to close the question. (Giving up after this one)
4
 
I'm still wondering why the rollbacks were made
 
No real reason for that.
 
The concern is that the post could be quoted by other entities, and it's important for a post with Joel's name under it to consist of Joel's precise words if that happens.
 
The post is not a good fit, it doesn't have any value, it's NO FREAKING DISCUSSION BUT A ONE-SIDED RANT, and every person with power is heavily biased towards leaving that question untouched.
@TigerhawkT3 Why the flying fuck (sorry) would you post it on MSO then?
SE has a blog, ffs
 
9:42 AM
Same reason people post homework questions tagged with five languages: because it'll get more views.
 
Which means that someone should actually roll back Shog's edit.
 
Post stuff like that on the blog & keep your unpolished, ranty, onesided, and rude opinion out of our faces....
Really not liking this.
"Moar viewz" <- Great justification of breaking your own rules.
Something I'd expect YouTubers to do.
Not something I'd expect from the CEO of a big company.
 
@Seth If you think the cause important enough, you'd do it too
The only difference is opinion on where the line is
 
Have you heard the phrase "do as I say, not as I do"?
 
My bet is it will get historical locked as soon as it's used as a justification for other posts in the same vein. And, until it is, it doesn't do any real harm per se.
 
9:45 AM
@JanDvorak Mh, kinda does.
1.) Rude (Name calling, please, how do you get CEO whilst allowing yourself to lose your patience like that), 2.) Could serve as justification for other political rants, 3.) What sort of image does that attach to SO?
"Mh, the guys with the irrational CEO who goes nuts over a political thing and just steamrolls over rules set by himself"
 
all good points, I'm afraid
 
"Mh, the guys that say COMMUNITY POWER, but really don't let the community decide"
 
He's the CEO because he's a co-founder. It's not like he applied for the job and spent the interview ranting about politics.
 
Even God abides by his own rules
 
You get to CEO by creating the company by leveraging your decade of previous success. It's easy.
 
9:48 AM
@JeremyBanks Aight, rephrased: "How do you stay CEO that long whilst allowing yourself to lose your patience like that"...
 
By maintaining a controlling interest in the company.
 
@Seth Let's weigh those two posts versus the eight years of other work.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I don't suppose a political rant in a space he owns would've been as much of an issue if he hadn't invited the public at large into this space, with promises of certain rules and behavioral standards.
 
Eight years of other work don't excuse this.
 
"Stack Overflow is successful because of the contributions of everyone" -- could anyone tell Joel that Stack Overflow now automatically hides 20% of questions asked? Or maybe not, otherwise he could probably ban the just to make his favorite point about how it is great to allow everyone to contribute
 
9:52 AM
@gnat let's not start attacking the poster
 
@Cerbrus True, good does not cancel out bad (whether this is good or bad).
 
@Seth So you want to appeal to the SO shareholders to depose joel?
If I remember right he's still a big shareholder himself
 
The only reason that question still exists is because he's the CEO. That's not a very good reason.
3
 
@Magisch Exactly! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!1
 
As long as it's the bottom 20%, it's no loss. The percentage of low-quality questions is much higher than that.
 
9:53 AM
No, seriously, idc who runs SO, but I'd prefer it if people with authority (esp. the CEO) would not "abuse" that power to promote THEIR views and THEIR opinions.
Especially not if they try to enforce them onto the community.
 
Say I'd have won in the past elections, this would've been reason for me to step down. Dead serious.
4
 
I really freaking dislike that.
 
@Cerbrus It is a perfectly valid reason. It's not a good justification, assuming that following rules is important, but it's definitely a reason.
 
@Cerbrus I respect that.
 
@TigerhawkT3 I get what you're saying, but: Meh, semantics. You know what I mean to say there.
 
9:55 AM
I wouldn't want to be the "Guy making sure rules are being respected" if my boss is the "Guy who writes rules & discards them as he pleases"
 
@Seth This one very abnormal political thread should not be establishing a precedent for the site-at-large. If users are using it as justification to abuse others or make other off-topic posts, that should be brought to the attention of the moderators.
 
@JeremyBanks Then why is the CEO an exception, instead of the example?
2
 
Lead by example.
 
@JeremyBanks And why should the rules not apply, in this very abnormal case? Aren't you realizing the stunning logical fallacy in what you just wrote?
 
9:57 AM
@JeremyBanks Oh, but it will be. That's how this system works. One leads out, others follow. What do you tell the others? "You cannot do that, but he can, because reasons"? =/
 
This is the second time SO has been used as a political platform. With Trump in office, I expect more such posts.
 
> "With Trump in office, I expect more such posts." And that's the problem
 
I, too, expect this will be used as a justification for more Trump rants
 
This isn't the first controversial decision Trump makes. and it definitely won't be the last. Don't drag SO down in that discussion. This isn't Facebook.
 
"Mimimi, everything is terrible, but I don't know what to do about it, so I guess I will just complain, and use fancy hashtags".-
This bullshit isn't SO worthy.
That belongs to social networks.
 
10:04 AM
@MathiasMüller @Seth He's making a political statement on behalf of the company. That is extremely unusual and I do trust the community to know better than to generalize from this case to others. Just as, during my election, I expressed that I trusted the community to be able to handle keeping old posts around without deleting them because they understood the context and wouldn't extrapolate inappropriately.
 
Can I have a score/time graph for that question, just out of curiosity? The timeline only provides a daily split.
 
@JeremyBanks He should've done that on his blog.
 
@JeremyBanks That is not a political statement. That is a rant.
3
 
But he hasn't updated the blog in over a month.
 
And as @Cerbrus said, the blog is the tool of choice for spreading your opinion on politics.
Not the meta-discussion page of your programmer-Q&A
 
10:05 AM
Perhaps.
 
Say I made a cooking Q/A
 
I mean I see why he did it, and I also do think it might've happened in "the heat of the moment".
 
And started a discussion about politics there...
 
But why can we not "fix" that "mistake" now.
 
Let me note that XKCD broke the rules as well. I don't condone it, but I understand Joel's frustration with the election results.
 
10:06 AM
People'd think I was "baked" when posting that.
 
I vote for a lock. Later, perhaps, but I still think it's in place.
 
(blog.codinghorror.com/im-loyal-to-nothing-except-the-dream) at least Jeff just set a good example and took this to his own blog.
 
@Cerbrus Thanks for the pun, that actually made me smile :D
 
Yw. And thanks :P
 
@Seth Trump's choice to do this on a Friday when nobody is going to be in a position to respond with typical resources/attention for a couple of days was unhelpful.
 
10:09 AM
@MathiasMüller nice infographic.
 
And probably intentional
 
@JeremyBanks And deliberate
 
Perhaps the best option is to distance oneself from politics and discussions about politics. The world is going to burn if you want it or not, and the best you can do is to grab a fireman suit, a camp fork and a bag of sausages.
 
And marshmallows
 
I don't like marshmallows.
 
10:14 AM
Culinary profiling. You scumbag 😃 (<-- disclaimer: joke. I don't think Jan is a scumbag)
 
Oh and... pro-tip: when the world bursts aflame, make sure the fireman doesn't see you with a box of matchsticks in your hands.
 
Or just make sure you're the one in charge, and they won't be able to do a thing about the matches.
 
Humans can't put themselves above God. Kings of the world may think they're on the top, but they aren't.
 
@JanDvorak I would not go that far; we should acknowledge that politics has an impact on people's lives and politics should by all means be discussed. If we don't, then people like Kasra actually have a point. But simply saying that meta SO is not the right place is a valid argument, and terribly easy to understand (in my opinion).
 
> Stop pretending I'm not human. Stop pretending my Grandma isn't human. Stop pretending every single complicit citizen in 1939 Germany hiding their eyes and hoping their families would be OK weren't real humans.
This is what sort of confuses me.
I don't really understand how one makes a claim like this, just based on people saying that MSO isn't the right place.
 
10:28 AM
@Seth Godwin's law?
 
@JanDvorak Oh, nice, I didn't even know that law.
Welp, that devalues the answer drastically (in my eyes).
 
@Seth Well, it's someone who's affected in a very personal way and can't look at the issue with detachment. Understandable, if not very helpful here.
 
@Seth Fear. If you thought a pogrom of your people was about to start in a country you live in you'd be freaked out too
 
@terdon Understandable yes, but why do you say that people that say "This ain't the right place for this" are similar to the german people back then?
 
And he's quite right to be freaked out. I'm also freaked out. The point here is whether or not this sort of discussion should occur on meta. I also happen to agree with everything Joel says (although I would have used stronger language). I just don't understand why this wasn't a blog post.
@Seth Say what?
Oh, sorry, I thought you were saying I said that.
 
10:33 AM
I'm not freaked out. The world is falling apart, yes, but it can be rebuilt.
 
All that is besides the point though. It's the same for me as Joel's post about same-sex marriage. Again, I agreed with him 100% and felt pretty much the same way, although it isn't something that affects me personally. I just don't feel that meta is the right place for this. Whether I happen to agree with the opinion expressed or not is completely irrelevant.
And my heart goes out to Kasra and I'm very glad his CEO is giving him a platform. I just don't get why that platform wasn't the SE blog.
 
@terdon Ah, worded that badly. :p
 
This isn't about Kasra though.
 
@terdon I think the official stance and is "yes, it's against the rules, but it's important enough that we can make an exception here. People are smart enough to not use it as a justification for their own rants." I also think most of the chat participants disagree with the stance.
 
"When you call this regular politics, and say SO shouldn't be about politics, you say you don't care about me." Is a logical fallacy.
 
10:38 AM
@Cerbrus "Only a Sith deals in absolutes"
Or whatever that quote was.
That's no healthy basis for a discussion though.
 
@Seth that, by itself, is an absolute
 
@JanDvorak That's the catch :3
 
@JanDvorak Have we had an 'official' stance? I've skimmed the transcript and I've seen shog and skivz opine, but it seemed like their own personal take rather than an official stance. Of course, seeing as it's posted by Joel, it don't get much more official than that.
 
Well, "official" as in "the stance of a dev team member"
I haven't read through the transcript. Sorry.
 
update me , whjat is the current stand
 
10:47 AM
I don't think there is a current stand or an official stance.
 
can there be a voting
can a pol be asked on meta
 
@SurajJain If joel allows it
which is doubtful
 
Oh ,... i got it
let us make new websit , all people who repopened his question not allowed
 
sure
go ahead
 
10:53 AM
#schism
 
i need developers like you all who knows much more than me and maybe joel too
@littlepootis See the other chat room
iu dont know so much
 
If you think you can replicate SO by yourself and get the community to follow you because of one meta post you're a) overestimating your abilities severely, b) underestimating the amount of work that goes into making this severely and c) overestimate people's outrage about this severely.
 
agreed, agreed and agreed
 
it is just a dream and i am fed of this site , elites control it not users
do you agree @JanDvorak
 
Regardless of who I think "controls" this site (and most of the janitorial work is done by regular users), it still beats Yahoo Answers every day.
 
10:59 AM
Let's not have that discussion again, yeah?
There's a valid discussion to be had here about how lenient the on topic rules should be on meta and whether certain important events should let us bend the rules or not.
Let's stick to that and not the tired old adage of who runs SO.
 
I think I should leave...
 
@terdon The root cause here is that people are not equal , he is ceo so he can post out of topic quesion here i am just talking about root cause
 
@SurajJain Of course they're not equal. Nobody ever claimed they were. The entire system is based on different reputation levels, for example.
But that isn't the topic of this room.
 
@terddon Yeah , i Know
ok i vote to close that question down , though nobody really cont my vote
 
1 hour ago, by Cerbrus
The only reason that question still exists is because he's the CEO. That's not a very good reason.
 
11:02 AM
bye take care all
 
@JanDvorak Well, that isn't actually entirely clear when talking about a question with 1624 upvotes.
 
Closed 23 minutes ago, reopened 5 minutes ago
@terdon I'll be glad to watch you do an experiment
 
@JanDvorak Irrelevant. It only takes 5 people to close and reopen. Far more telling is that >1k users believe it should be there. No, I am not one of them, but yes they are many and have just as much right to their opinion as I do.
@JanDvorak ?
 
The only reason it has 1624 upvotes is because he's the CEO. If an ordinary user had posted that, it would've been closed and deleted within a few minutes.
4
 
@TigerhawkT3 Well Said
 
11:05 AM
@terdon as in, I'm very interested to see someone post a similar question and watch what happens.
But I'm not willing to sacrifice my MSO rep post-ban score.
 
@TigerhawkT3 It was closed within a few minutes. The upvotes, however, are not because he's CEO. Everyone gets to vote as they please. Joel doesn't have a magic '+1k upvotes' tool.
 
But people vote partially based on the poster (speculation, I know)
 
It has been closed by the community and it has been reopened by the community. Not only by mods. So, obviously, there's a discussion to be had.
 
It'll be closed and deleted. At this point, it'll probably be seen as some sort of trolling as well, earning the author a suspension. I wouldn't recommend it. I also wouldn't recommend it because that sort of post doesn't belong on Meta. :P
 
Then the same should probably happen to Joel's post. Or rather a historical lock, at this point. Even if it happens with a delay.
 
11:08 AM
@terdon The upvotes are because he's the CEO. Most ordinary users don't have six figures of Twitter followers (where he advertised it), no ordinary users have the power to pin a post as "featured," and even a mod or employee would've needed permission from the CEO to post something like this.
4
 
Upvotes don't make a question on-topic. Reopen votes don't make a question on-topic. The OP being the CEO doesn't make a question on-topic.
 
It does spend more time open than closed, though
 
@TigerhawkT3 We have no way of knowing that without asking upwards of 1000 people why they voted. More importantly, that makes absolutely no difference. The point here is that thousands of community members felt the post was good enough to upvote. if they felt so because he's CEO or because it's Monday or for whatever reason is besides the point.
And no, of course upvotes don't make something on topic. However, they do indicate that many people consider it on topic and, therefore, it is something that should be discussed.
 
@terdon it's also beside the point in terms of judging the topicality.
 
@terdon That's not a very strong argument. The requirement to upvote are lower than to close-vote
 
11:11 AM
And discussed it has been.
 
@JanDvorak Of course. I'm just saying that they indicate that a discussion should be had.
 
You need significantly more repto close-vote.
 
@Cerbrus So?
 
@terdon It does not.
 
Then what are you doing here? :)
 
11:12 AM
We don't need to have this dicussion here. ("this" being trump, "here" being SO)
You're saying that, just because people have an opinion, we should have the discussion.
 
@Cerbrus We're not discussing Trump. We are discussing whether a specific question posted on meta should be there.
 
I thought we were done with that discussion?
 
Upvotes don't indicate that a post is considered on-topic. On Meta, upvotes indicate that users agree with a post. Some even upvote and close-vote.
 
The whole "People upvoted it, so it must stay" is nonsense.
2
 
@TigerhawkT3 I am well aware of what upvotes mean, thank you.
@Cerbrus That is not what I'm saying.
 
11:14 AM
> "However, they do indicate that many people consider it on topic and, therefore, it is something that should be discussed."
How would you discuss it while removing the question?
 
I am saying that if so many people upvoted it, then we should consider why. And think about whether it should be allowed. I have thought on it and I've decided it shouldn't be allowed. My point is just that there's enough support for it that I don't want to impose my own opinion and would rather reach a consensus through discussion.
 
Right.
Now I understand your point of view
 
That is called argumentum ad populum.
 
I'm not. My own position is that the question does not belong on meta and shouldn't have been posted there. Largely because it was bound to result in this sort of rigamariole.
 
That, I agree with
Now, lunchtime.
 
11:16 AM
All I'm saying is that the upvotes (and the downvotes) are a clear indication that the community is split on the matter. Since meta, even more than main, is managed by the community, said split clearly indicates a need for consensus.
 
Discussions keep pointing towards closure. And yet reopen votes keep coming faster than closure votes.
 
11:39 AM
@TigerhawkT3 Which is a valid argument in a discussion platform (meta) driven by public consensus, no?
 
Mmm... no, I don't think so. If you saw a highly-upvoted spam post, would you conclude that the community wants high-quality skin cream, or would it still be unacceptable?
(Note: trick question)
 
That's a tough question, actually
 
@TigerhawkT3 Probably
Your example is completly meaningless though
 
1k votes seems a bit high for a spam ring
 
Since spam posts legitimately never get anything but deleted
 
11:42 AM
 
But it's just right for a post that's extremely heavily promoted, and engages in partisan politics (which means that around half of the viewers will be for it - or more, in a skewed population like SO).
 
I don't consider my own judgement perfect enough to trump 1000 of my peers about what is and isn't off topic
at least not this time
 
Yes, that.
 
Again, those votes aren't saying that the question is on-topic. Heck, even a significant portion of the reopen votes are just saying "sorry, my boss wants this open even though it's inappropriate."
 
11:59 AM
You're kinda putting words in their mouths there. Kinda much.
 
You know that Meta up/downvotes aren't about whether a post is on-topic. As far as the reopen votes, we've had some mods in this chat who basically agreed with us but said that what the CEO says, goes (which makes sense, although I wish the CEO hadn't chosen to say this content in this manner).
 
@TigerhawkT3 Don't confuse mods with SE employees. Hell, I'm a mod on two sites, but I do not work for SE.
 
Either way, they keep reopening the post and rolling back edits even though they don't agree with doing so.
 
@TigerhawkT3 The past several reopen votes have been cast by regular users.
 
Aaand still you are missing the point.
The question itself is rude.
 
12:06 PM
Several, certainly. And several close votes.
 
It's off-topic.
It's bad.
It's not a question.
It's not suited for MSO.
The answers are bad.
It has the discussion tag, yet offers no ground for a healthy discussion.
It's just a flat out terrible question.
3
 
@Seth again, I agree that it doesn't belong on meta.
 
"keep rolling back" - you have two samples. Three, if you count the one "they" didn't roll back.
 
Worst part being, that isn't even an opinion, the facts themselves are - according to guidelines - enough to clearly say "Close & Delete".
 
So...
 
12:09 PM
Yet the CEO somehow feels the need to enforce his opinion & offer his employee a basis to call us all ignorant, and compare us to the german people of 1939
Simply because we are not willing to discuss this crap on MSO
 
So, we agree that it doesn't belong on Meta - I suppose you're not convinced by the 4-digit upvotes any more than I am.
 
The upvotes/downvotes don't have any meaning regarding wether something's on topic or off topic.
 
No. I just think they are evidence that a discussion should be had.
 
Yes, but not here.
We have politics.SE
 
I should probably respond to that comparison in an answer. There's a reason I have a German last name but haven't had any family living there since the 30s.
 
12:10 PM
We have Law.SE if you feel like that's illegal.
 
A discussion on whether or not that post should be allowed. Not a discussion on the posts's subject.
 
@TigerhawkT3 The comparison itself is in an answer. Probably comment.
 
That discussion is here.
 
And here.
 
Apparently the consensus it "get it off of MSO"
 
12:11 PM
Yes, I mean, on regular Meta, outside of chat.
 
been done.
 
But - surprise surprise - why is the thread still on MSO..
 
Because the CEO said so.
 
The top answer says "I can see why you'd close it, but meh, whatever."
79
Q: Should "Time to take a stand" question be closed / moved?

Maroun MarounPlease read the question carefully, I'm NOT requesting removing the post Joel Spolsky posted a very touching and inspiring post: Time to take a stand. On one hand, I really appreciate his stance and his courage, and I truely agree with all that he said (I don't want to add more to avoid convert...

 
> But overall I think this message should go to the blog. (source)
 
12:16 PM
Yep. Sorry. Even the answer wants it closed.
 
Now we will have brilliant ideas like that one for the rest of our lives. Nice.
 
If I agree with a message behind a post, but not with how it was presented, how should I vote?
 
With your heart.
 
I downvoted the post.
I am not affected by the issue named in the post.
I find the wording pretty rude, I don't know what the goal behind it is, and so on...
I mean "My opinion is gud, urs is stopid" isn't really what I'm used to from the SE network.
That isn't professional.^^
 
I'm not affected directly, but SE as a whole might be affected. I'd rather dodge any potential wave of suspensions.
 
12:31 PM
It's very unlikely although not inconcievable that they'll suspend anyone who vtc/downvoted that post
would fit the current political climate.
 
I don't think I'd be coming back
 
Yerp.
 
@JanDvorak The biggest problem with the post is that it is hugely polarising - people will either vote massively for it or against it, and those who vote against it might be put off the site. I don't think it is helpful to Stack Overflow, and I think it is the low rep users who will be more put off...
 
Me neither.
Not only is it polarising, it's also polarised.
"Either you are with me, or you are stupid, and demonizing stuff"
For the love of god
If you want to make a strong point
Not like this
That's just abominable.
In the event that I should get banned for downvoting it (which is unlikely), I would not return. Political correctness & political discussions are not what I need or want in my life.
 
There have been about 70 closevoters so far or so, I think?
 
12:37 PM
Ye
Exactly 70, as far as I can see.
 
Should I make some graphs about the close/reopen times?
 
@JanDvorak That could be useful. :p
 
I have to leave now, but I might have time later today
Anyways... closed 4 minutes ago, and it already has a reopen vote
 
@Seth people suggesting a new tag on MSO
the end is nigh
D:
 
@JanDvorak Maybe, maybe it stays closed
@Magisch Yep.........
 
12:50 PM
@Seth Already on 3 reopen vote
 
@Magisch Luvly.
The whole thread reminds me of jurassic park :')
"This is a big pile of shit"
 

« first day    last day (9 days later) »