« first day    last day (9 days later) » 

8:00 PM
@Shog9 No problem, thanks for the info! :)
 
I don't really think immigration policies affect SE as a company, though
 
@PetterFriberg "we" is a bit of a stretch
over 100 people voted to close the question
 
@JanDvorak the term you are thinking about is virtue signaling
 
I don't think things are that clear in either direction.
 
@TylerH to be fair, I have been trying to do it a lot more (as has Tim, and others). I'd say roughly the past year has been one long attempt to acclimate folks to employees speaking more often - with some effect (I mean, we're not getting screamed at as much for daring to announce new features anymore).
 
8:01 PM
@MadaraUchiha fixed..
 
If we want people to stop closing SE's blog posts on meta, a reopen war isn't the right way to go
 
@Shog9 yes, and it has helped. This post by Joel is just so different from the rest. Had it been a new feature or new initiative...
 
@Shog9 OH! Last question, did anything come of the A/B test for the vote buttons following the browser?
 
user4639281
If the company wants to start using a meta site instead of the blog because it is easier to moderate, it needs to be on its own meta site. Not this one.
 
For once, I want a lock option that's not nuclear (cc @Shog9) but since that would take 6-8 weeks/months/years, an alternative could be nice
 
8:02 PM
@MadaraUchiha that would be nice
 
@JanDvorak :shrug: we could just add an employee-only tag that evaluates to "no closing". Make it explicit. But, that would sorta cut out a way that folks currently have for voicing displeasure.
@EBrown yeah - it failed
 
@TinyGiant this one actually is the "old meta"
 
@Shog9 Bummer, alright. Thanks! :)
 
@Shog9 the voice that has been silenced on this post?
 
249
Q: A/B testing the sticky vote controls - give your feedback, please

Jarrod DixonFirst, apologies for not creating this feedback thread earlier - in hindsight, a change to such an established feature of our sites really does warrant some explanation. We're running an A/B test on Stack Overflow only that places half of registered users with >= 15 reputation in a variant group...

 
user1641172
8:04 PM
I must admit, it saddens me that the politics of division and outrage have reached into the centre of the community that I look to for logic. If it were our enemies aim to divide and conquer right now, whoever they may be in all the confusion, they would be doing rather well in my opinion.
 
user4639281
@tereško yeah but it is not the company's blog and I don't want it to be. That's just going to make moderating meta that much harder.
 
@JanDvorak uh, no. Someone was making this argument last night too (about the edits): someone saying "no" isn't the same as someone not listening to you at all.
we could not listen
heck, we have not listened
 
@MadaraUchiha a non-nuclear lock option? What would it lock
 
@JanDvorak - Anyone can post (or could while it was open) an answer.
That is not silencing.
 
as I said above, the past year and a bit has been a concerted effort on our part to communicate more
 
8:05 PM
@TylerH Currently, locking means no voting, no comments, no closing, no reopening, no deleting, no undeleting, no editing, no nothing
 
Anyone could vote on the post as well, and from the vote count, it seemed pretty evident where support was with the community.
 
I want a partial lock, if there's an edit war on the question, I want to lock just editing for just the question
 
That doesn't mean we can or will always do whatever someone asks. That's impossible, given the frequency with which two groups on the site ask for opposing things. But we can and should and do listen.
 
user4639281
That's pretty much exactly what was happening last night @shog. No one who could do anything cared to do anything other than stand in the way and violate site policy
 
If I'm getting lots of off-topic comments, I want to lock comments, etc.
 
8:06 PM
@MadaraUchiha ah, you want an a la carte lock feature
lets you choose what aspect you wanna lock
that'd be super useful
 
So, do we want the dev team to have the ability to prevent closure? Or to allow closure then steamroll over it? The current reopen war was a bit confusing for those steamrolled...
 
@MadaraUchiha it was probably done because of that one butt-hurt person, who tried removing word "President"
 
@MadaraUchiha - I like that.
 
Yeah, I'm thinking about reviving that old feature request for a comment-only lock, and attaching it to the "move to chat" feature.
 
.. and that's just childish
 
8:06 PM
Last time it was rejected as too much work for too little benefit, but... Might have a more sympathetic ear on the dev team now.
 
@tereško Well, frankly speaking, that's what happens when you open a politics post.
 
(if nothing else, The Workplace would be ecstatic)
 
People get childish, people start flaming, etc.
That's why the first rule of pretty much any online community out there is "stay away from politics and religion"
 
Tech unanimously stood up to this immigration ban on Saturday though.
 
user4639281
@MadaraUchiha along with be-nice.
 
8:08 PM
Almost every major tech CEO posted a stance.
 
@TravisJ Oh, post a stance
Tweet about it, post it on facebook, post it in your blog
 
4 hours ago, by tereško
@Sklivvz sorry, I must have missed something. Can you give me one legitimate reason why this post should not be deleted?
 
I don't think anyone really cared about the stance itself (and if they did, I don't care), more than the platform it was posted on.
 
user1641172
I find it wonderful that there are so many very intelligent people embroiled in a heated discussion over whether or not this thread should be open now, somewhat ironic how insignificant it is compared to the world situation right now lol.
3
 
Yes, some were surprised, but more weren't that were by far.
+1859, -281
 
8:09 PM
@NickDewitt I can't do anything about the elections.
 
OT: I keep getting Travis and Tyler mixed up in this thread.
 
@TravisJ Recall that upvoting is a lower privilege than down
The post was closed by over 100 people
 
user1641172
@Jan not saying you can, just from an observer perspective, it is peculiar.
 
And that it was shared on lots of social media...
 
@MadaraUchiha That should probably be changed...
 
8:10 PM
@Shog9 I'm the reasonable one ;-)
 
@JanDvorak For meta, at least.
 
@MadaraUchiha which is even higher privilege
 
@MadaraUchiha why just meta?
It's got significant effect on hot questions
 
user4639281
@TravisJ takes a lot more rep to down vote than up vote. I even agree with the position but have down voted because my attempts to remove the offensive wording were silenced.
 
@MadaraUchiha - I also saw it being reopened by the community. I also highly doubt your claim that users en masse were being prevented from downvoting because of not having enough reputation for it.
 
8:11 PM
I'm against the executive order... but i'm also against posts from people of power degrading those who oppose them. If the question was posted in a more neutral mannor, bringing in discussion i'd be all for it, but the only discussion it has brought on was against the post itself, not the executive order.
 
@JanDvorak Post a meta asking to revisit the privilege caps for up and down votes
 
user1641172
The world goes to shit; people descend into arguments about insignificant shit. Could prob learn something from history.stackexchange.com
 
I think the platform wants to encourage upvotes, and so it's a lower privilege.
Shog probably remembers the original reasons better than I do, though.
 
Well, strictly-speaking the platform wants to discourage downvotes
 
@NickDewitt the world has been predicted to embark on that journey a long ago. There's no turning back, and slowing it only prolongs the pain.
 
8:12 PM
Hence the higher rep-level, the cost to the voter (for answers), the pop-up nag, etc.
 
@JanDvorak Meh @NickDewitt
 
user1641172
@Jan that's why i choose to be an observer :p
 
odd temporal error
 
The world is steadily getting better in pretty much every stat
The world has never been a better place to live in more than right now
 
submitted a close vote and downvoted a question nearly simultaneously, got a "try your action again" system error
 
8:13 PM
So the world is not "going to shit" and it isn't "embarking" on some dark journey.
 
@MadaraUchiha agreed, just check out Our World In Data for verification on that
 
user1641172
I would agree with you maybe, but under Obama they installed the most orwellian surveillance system in history, ok maybe, if you "had nothing to hide".. now it's under Trump.
 
I think we've hit the peak in 1914 in terms of quality of social interactions, then it went down the drain with WWI
 
@NickDewitt - You mean the Patriot Act? That was in place prior to Obama.
 
@NickDewitt Every administration does that
 
user1641172
8:14 PM
Now you have something to hide if you come from 7 countries, as of today.
 
governments have consistently increased their own power and surveillance capabilities as time has gone on
 
user1641172
Plenty of what snowden revealed happened in the last 8 years,
 
this is one of the hallmarks of power: you aggregate it
 
My government recently came up with the idea that it would maintain a website blacklist every ISP would be required to respect.
 
user1641172
It should be transparent though
 
8:15 PM
Snowden stole data collected from the Patriot Act surveillance program.
He now works to steal it externally.
 
@JanDvorak The UK?
or was that France
I can't remember
 
Neither
 
I think what this boils sown in my opinion is: Joel broke the rules of his own site, because he thought, that his opinion was more important, than the rules
 
One of them passed a law to do basically that
 
user1641172
We are people of data are we not? We can surely as a community come up with the best answers that take a ridiculous amount of variables into account..
 
user4639281
8:16 PM
Germany?
 
but the court threw it out
 
@JanDvorak I dunno. There is a law about that in France yes.
 
Czechia here
 
user1641172
UK here
 
user1641172
Wales! :D
 
8:17 PM
Oh and... said machine-readable format they would be publishing their blacklists in ... is PDF
 
Waiting for the first person to say "Catalonia" so I can troll them with "You mean Spain"
 
If one can specify a state of UK, why not a state of Spain?
 
user1641172
Can i just say; I think, from what I have managed to read from the massive amount posted in a short time. Most people agree with Joel, but think it was an inappropriate place to post it due to the rules we all have to adhere to and value to keep our site useful.
 
user1641172
Could we somehow debate how this conversation could be held somewhere appropriate instead of devolving into black and white arguments that are actually greyscale, and, in the process losing sight of the whole point that Joel felt the need to post this in a place to cause some attention?
 
So... what is the stance he wanted us to take?
 
8:23 PM
@NickDewitt I think they posted it on meta on purpose because the blog's format didn't allow for the answers/comments format they wanted for responses
 
user1641172
Debate should be the stance here.
 
But I'm not sure (cc @Shog9 ?)
 
@JanDvorak because it's not as fun to correct a Walesian
 
@NickDewitt "virtue signaling" .. it's a thing, read about it
 
or w/e the name is for someone from Wales
Welshman
 
user1641172
8:23 PM
Haha, Welshman ;-)
 
user1641172
What should i call you, C**tFace? :D
 
user764357
Oh man, I left this chat window open over night and its still going?
 
user1641172
(i'm welsh we have an accent where that sounds appropriate)
 
But, pronounced Wall-E-Sian, is much more fun to say than Welsh IMO
 
@LegoStormtroopr 3785 messages and counting
 
8:24 PM
@NickDewitt Let me suggest that you delete this message
 
user1641172
Usually, i just get sheepshagger
 
I'm more interested to know what was the plan after making that post. There was absolutely no feedback from Joel. Zero.
 
user1641172
Oh come on, it was in jest - he called me "walesian"
 
@Tunaki agreed
It was a 'fire and forget'
 
Yeah some feedback would have been responsible.
 
8:25 PM
@NickDewitt Yes but the difference is I wasn't trying to insult you (I'm not the one who flagged your post btw)
 
@NickDewitt reminded me about that mansplaing troll from Minecraft's author
 
I tried to reject it but it had already been cleared \o/
 
user1641172
Sorry, wasn't meant as an insult lol! I haven't even seen your face to make a comparison
 
user764357
@Tunaki The intent was to tell people what the orthodox opinion was. Regardless of your nationality you must oppose Trump (or at the least be quiet).
 
My face is literally my avatar
 
8:26 PM
@Tunaki "now work, minions" :P
 
@Tunaki see the latest stared post
 
user764357
@tereško link?
 
@Tunaki Tunaki, I think you need are looking for something useful, you need to interpret it more as a stand by the CEO of SE, he feels agitated and wanted to post. Off-topic for normal standards yeah, but that's CEO so what ever he is up to is relevant for us. Lets listen to rant, suggestion what ever it is... then we can try to lead to better ideas if we are able to
 
I didn't flag it either, but ... what is it when interpreted as appropriate?
 
user1641172
8:28 PM
My apologies for my verbosity, it was not meant in offence - i assumed someone calling me "walesian" would have thick enough skin for a retort :P
 
@NickDewitt so, you just English, right <insert innocent expression>
 
user1641172
Nah mate, Welsh.
 
@NickDewitt you also assumed that nobody else will read that message
 
user1641172
Like where Gareth Bale is from.
 
this is the most viewed chat room on SO, is it not?
 
8:29 PM
@AndrasDeak - That is probably accurate for the past few days.
 
user1641172
@Andreas no, I assumed people might read something in context and be able to understand textual sarcasm
 
user1641172
I often make that mistake.
 
@AndrasDeak 72 all time users
probably not
 
user1641172
Instead of just becoming instantly outraged at something they don't understand, or don't have the context for.
 
@NickDewitt right.
@rlemon but I'd assume that most of those are actually often looking here, rather than just being present
 
8:31 PM
I'd still not assume it is the most viewed room. not by a long shot
 
@rlemon - Don't mistake posts for views.
 
the ratio of people who use the chats and people who participate in meta probably don't have that crazy of an overlap
@TravisJ hard to tell, there is no metric on chatroom views.
 
I think this is the most active discussion room, though
 
A 5 person circle jerk generating 1000 messages is vastly different than a 70 person discussion generating 1000 messages.
 
user1641172
If people did that more often, we might not be in this situation right now. I live up in the farming country at the mo, so I wasn't that surprised by brexit at all. Subsequently, not that surprised by Trump.
 
8:32 PM
@NickDewitt That's saddening
 
@PetterFriberg Sure. My beef with the post was the choice of words, and lack of openness. I still strongly disagree with the wording, and how the message was conveyed. Certainly I expected more professionalism.
 
let me not get started on being surprised:D
 
@Tunaki - You should see how the President speaks.
 
I'm not interested in US politics
3
 
i mean, sure, if we should follow his example.
 
user1641172
8:34 PM
@Jan sadly it's more statistics
 
The Brexit concerns me more than the USA closing borders
 
@Tunaki - Okay, fair enough. Then why even pay attention to Joel's post?
 
user1641172
It concerns me more for the EU than the UK
 
user1641172
I said that all along, why are we being so selfish, look at how much we have helped the Polish etc
 
It is literally one post out of more than 100,000 meta posts.
@JanDvorak - Who defends your borders?
 
user1641172
8:36 PM
Same in the US now, it's all about "what's best for the US" not, how we take our place in the World as the example.
 
user764357
@TravisJ Because for us non-USian we don't have a choice. The internet is defacto American, so we get absolutely blasted with American politics.
 
@Tunaki True, I honestly think you probably have a higher stands what meta and SO is then the CEO, but on the other hand it's the CEO venting his ideas and emotions and he directly effects SO, I think the right way is not to do a darn close-open war, or say "if I posted this", but to answer directly the CEO on these issues.
 
@Tunaki *insults Tunaki*
 
@TravisJ a wooden door with a single lock
 
@TravisJ It affects me as user of SO.
 
8:38 PM
@Tunaki - A single meta post is harming you?
 
user764357
Personally, as an Australian I am pro-Trump because, Hilary voted for and was quiet on her intentions on the TPP, and given Obama tried to push it through she would have likely done the same. Trump however was very anti-TPP. As were most Australians, because it would have given big-US-Tobacco the ability to sue our government over our harsh cigarette restrictions which have dropped our smoking rates to historically low levels.
 
user764357
But because I was against Hillary I was repeatedly told I was 'sexist'.
 
wait, are we/you really discussing US politics here, rather than the controversy surrounding Joel's statement?
 
of course
 
Yes
 
user1641172
8:39 PM
@LegoStormtroopr totally agree, the left is also at fault (especially the very loud far left) because anyone who disagreed was "racist" or "sexist" and therefore a lot of those people pushed the "big red button" in the voting booth.
 
because when I switch to religion, everyone assumes I'm trolling
 
@TravisJ Who said anything about harming me?
 
@JanDvorak oh I could understand that:P
 
@Tunaki - "It affects me as user" you said. Unless you meant that you were speaking for all of SO?
Is it a positive affect? I must have misread.
 
Neither positive nor negative. It changes the way I interact with the site
 
8:41 PM
@LegoStormtroopr there's where focusing on policy and not personality is useful. I'm pretty happy about the demise of TPP (you should still be worried, since your Gov't is still in place and will probably try & make the same deals just excluding the US). I'm not happy about this immigration thing. It's nice to have different opinions on different policies without having to toe the line for or against a person.
 
user1641172
@TravisJ it's drummed into us to downvote and vote close posts that are not relevant. More popular posts will of course attract more logical downvotes and close votes.. can't blame the community for following the agreed rules.
 
I'm very anti-cigarette
 
Cigarettes are pretty great
 
Why do people want TPP gone?
 
it (would have been) a horrid trade deal
 
8:42 PM
@LegoStormtroopr - The point was to focus on the singular unconstitutional act which effected Stack Overflow right down to its employees.
 
user1641172
@JanDvorak not enough transparency.
 
@JanDvorak negotiated in secret, pushed the US's (terrible) copyright restrictions on a bunch of other countries...
 
@JanDvorak First thing on Google, huffingtonpost.com/bob-burnett/…
 
@TravisJ I would have loved to have that stated objectively in the post.
 
Oh. I thought it was a pro-environment treaty.
 
8:42 PM
Surely there is a way to make it constructive
 
@JanDvorak nah, but I wouldn't be surprised if some tried to bill it that way. Calling something green gets votes.
 
user1641172
Same for EU legislation, there's not enough transparency, you can't even argue certain points with clearly racist people - it is infuriating at times, how can you defend it?
 
Hemp leaf is green, too :-)
 
Chat messages per room, top 10 rooms, last three days:
 
isn't everyone a bit racist towards some group?
 
user764357
8:45 PM
@JanDvorak report for thought-crime citizen.
 
user1641172
@JanDvorak yeah, that's why i said "clearly racist"
 
@Shog9 Remove messages from various bots, it'll make a different chart :)
 
Hey, I'm not a bot.
 
Any idea what caused the spike in Era?
 
Same data, but distinct users per room:
 
8:46 PM
That graph makes me wonder why I keep seeing "sorry the other rooms are inactive" kind of stray people in lower-scoring rooms
 
 
user1641172
If we actually managed to make a true AI, would calling someone a bot be racist?
 
nice
 
@Shog9 The New Answers to Old Questions is a real time update of stackoverflow.com/tools/new-answers-old-questions. Can you get the 11th room instead? :)
 
@Shog9 can we get "how often the throttle was triggered" graph?
 
8:47 PM
@NickDewitt it certainly wouldn't, human.
 
@BhargavRao hang on, I'll use a different graph so that I can include more rooms.
 
Thanks. :)
 
user1641172
Haha @JanDvorak there are only 10 types of bots.. [fill the rest in yourself]
 
@Shog9 what's the graph if you only include users who spoke in that room?
 
@JanDvorak that is what it is
I guess "same data" was a bit ambiguous
 
8:48 PM
Or what if you take the users, and if the username has an odd number of letters, print Fizz, and...
 
user1641172
Can you also do a graph with the number of users out of that population which have had a comment flagged as "inappropriate"? :D
 
How did ... NATO HQ get 55 unique speakers?
 
user1641172
(that might include me)
 
@JanDvorak sock puppets on 11 hands
 
8:49 PM
@JanDvorak No that's SOCVR
Different brown or red
 
@JanDvorak I'm wondering how it got 2 here :D
 
@Tunaki brown??
 
Ah, that explains things :-D
 
@AndrasDeak color
 
wait, I've got f.lux
we'll never know
@Tunaki color???
 
8:50 PM
colour
 
phew!
 
that was close
 
I don't have f.lux, and I still confused them.
 
good catch
 
8:51 PM
@BhargavRao country(wo)man of mine
 
I love to think that Shog9, has been told by Joel, "Hey keep thezz agitated community users busy with something... until they forget the post"
 
user1641172
lol
 
now that we killed the mainstream thread, let's talk about whether Trump will unlegalize marijuana
ah, ninjad by Petter, sort of:D
 
@PetterFriberg I'm adopting that headcanon
 
@Shog9 neat stats. Internal tools or SEDE?
 
8:53 PM
@TylerH both
 
user1641172
A taxi driver told me recently it was a good thing, as at least now he would investigate 9/11
 
@Tunaki dark red
 
bordeaux burgundy!
dark rouge:P
 
@AndrasDeak That's not a confusing name for a color at all
 
@NickDewitt - I am surprised someone would actually believe that.
Or perhaps just disappointed.
One of the two.
 
user1641172
8:55 PM
@TravisJ That he would investigate it? Me too, but hey I also thought it would be more of a fence..
 
@AndrasDeak he actually might end up legalizing it
 
I like "burnt umber" myself
 
@NickDewitt - That it hasn't already been investigated.
 
Hi @Travis \o Haven't seen ya around in chat. (last being when Dr Madonna decided to visit us)
 
@AndrasDeak what do you mean? It's not legal currently
 
8:55 PM
Spoiler alert: there's a skyscraper there.
 
user1641172
@TravisJ me too but I am apparently crazy for not believing it 100%
 
it is legal in 3 or 4 states in USA
 
@TylerH is it not legal in select states? Is it not possible to pass an order to make it universally illegal "just because"?
 
@BhargavRao - I am mainly in the c# room :) The botting looked like it was going well though
 
8:56 PM
@AndrasDeak it is already federally illegal
states have passed decriminalization laws
 
hmm
 
user1641172
@TravisJ you can't say botting anymore, @JanDvorak has revealed he is not human :/
 
but a federal agent can go wherever he wants to and arrest someone for breaking a federal crime
 
@Shog9 Ah, Thanks for that!
 
Marijuana is a Schedule I controlled substance federally
 
8:57 PM
I'm a nowl
 
@TylerH so if you buy pot from a legal pot shop, it's still a federal crime and the FBI can bust your butt?
 
until it's not, you can be arrested by a federal law enforcement officer/agent for it
 
user764357
Trump may well support marijuana legalisation from a purely business perspective. I hope he does just to see all the stoners vote red.
 
@AndrasDeak yes, it would be DEA though
not FBI
 
oh
is that not...very weird?
 
8:58 PM
@AndrasDeak well .. did he promised that he will try to do it?
 
user1641172
Thankfully, the FBI are currently busy trying to prove that Trump's inauguration day figures were greater than Obama's.
 
yes it is a bit weird
 
@TylerH - There is no point though, as the feds would then turn the offender over to local law enforcement for incrimination, who would then be released.
 
because he has been trying to do the other things, @AndrasDeak : cnbc.com/2017/01/29/…
 
but that's the age-old (well, ~217-year-old) debate between states' rights vs federal rights
 
8:58 PM
@tereško no thanks:P
 
no-thanks regarding what?
 
@tereško actually a decent thing he did
or wants to do, w/e
 
I try to prolong my life span by reading as little Trump as possible
 

« first day    last day (9 days later) »