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9:00 AM
man
I never felt so bad about the asylum until today.
 
@DeadMG Hey. How are you feeling?
 
terrible as always
 
@DeadMG Well, I hope we can cheer you up a bit.
 
well
nah
I need ten of me to help me work on Wide.
 
@DeadMG Well, I clearly suck, so I don't think I'd be of any help
 
9:03 AM
robot has a similar problem with ogonek, I believe
 
guis
when you, say, rewrite a program from language A to B, it's called porting
but when you rewrite it from scratch in another language and using a completely different architecture, how is that called?
 
"programming"
 
In games you would call that a remake.
 
@한국매미 does it have the same api?
 
yeah. just the "execution engine" is completely different.
 
9:12 AM
I say remake.
 
@한국매미 Then its called porting.
Source, Camtasia
 
i'll probably go with remake...
 
@GamesBrainiac A port keeps the same underlying stuff.
 
@Rapptz Source? Because that is often hard to do since different languages might have different tools. So, some things might have to be changed.
 
I only use the terms Remake and Port for video games, so I know it from that
So a remake is when you adapt the system from X to Y with it being improved a lot, while you port if you do X to Y without much improvement to the underlying system.
 
9:15 AM
Well I get it from Camtasia, Camtasia has 2 versions. One for Mac and one for PC. Mac version is very different from the PC one, but has the same API (sort of).
 
That's brand reuse.
 
But yea, I would say that remake sounds better than port
:P
 
hmm
do you guys ever use a mocking strategy where the mocking class inherits from the real implementation?
 
That sounds weird.
 
user1804599
No.
 
9:19 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I know.
but everything else I've tried always ends up with multiple inheritance.
I hate run-time inheritance.
it's so weak
 
pointers and rule of three before exceptions and templates?
fuckin' fail.
I thought cppreference's maintainers didn't suck.
 
I'm guessing this isn't final lol
look at all the dead links
 
> This wiki is in alpha stage
calm your tits
 
obviously should just point them to codepuppy
 
9:24 AM
lol
 
> Note: the current content is only a sketch. It does have major flaws. If you think it can be improved, just edit it, or open a discussion here if you're unsure.
 
wow! I installed MSVS2013 and it didn't break me VS2012
 
there's a 2013 already? i'm so late
 
> And you know a new feature is badly designed if Scott Meyers has a talk about it.
hahhaha, love it.
 
source?
 
9:30 AM
the reddit link from a few hours ago
 
@한국매미 nah, RC
 
@Abyx any improvements worth mentioning? i'll check the changelogs
 
@Rapptz Bartosz's latest post.
> so called weak atomics, which I would describe as portable data races
 
Oh I didn't read it.
Though I've gotten into the habit of Ctrl + F'ing "Haskell" when someone posts a C++ blogpost.
It's a good way of keeping score
 
@한국매미 IDE support for some new C++ features from Nov. CTP
 
user1804599
9:35 AM
IDEIDEIDE
 
lol he's downvoted pretty bad on reddit :s
was the article bad or something?
 
what article?
 
Even has a special appearance from STL.
 
user1804599
Yum pizza for lunch.
 
user1804599
Meh Domino’s pizza for lunch.
 
9:37 AM
@Rapptz I think not. But it bashes a lot on C++'s flaws.
 
user1804599
@ScottW what kind of pasta?
 
@Rapptz reddit effect + the fact he's pushing haskell maybe too much?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I saw the pointers and figured the argument would be silly.
 
user1804599
@ScottW lunner
 
I didn't really read it though (basically a tl;dr on my part)
@ScottW You like that too? :D
 
user1804599
9:38 AM
@ScottW With meat, spinach or something else in it, I hope?
 
@Rapptz tl;dr haskell > C++
 
user1804599
Because otherwise that shit is horrible.
 
All my friends say they don't like it because "all the sauce just falls out"
 
user1804599
@ScottW :3
 
off 2 the overnight hiking trip ... if I don't come back in a few days, assume I quit :x
 
user1804599
9:39 AM
I had that in Spain with meatloaf in it and it was wonderfully tasty.
 
@Rapptz What do you mean by "pointers"?
 
@한국매미 Yeah I can tell. The Haskell score was 8!
 
user1804599
Plain paste usually tastes horrible.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes The examples all use dynamic memory allocation.
 
user1804599
9:40 AM
I'd rather eat dry potatoes.
 
I thought it was something on reddit.
 
user1804599
@ScottW lekker boterham met tandpasta.
 
user1804599
@ScottW lekker, boterham met tandpasta.
 
@Rapptz He uses those to explain how complex C++ is with its philosophy of having many ways to do something, except all but one are wrong.
 
user1804599
9:41 AM
@ScottW de
 
and so does Andrei!
I thought it was interesting
 
user1804599
@ScottW It's a masculine word, probably because the tubes have a phallic shape if you have a lot of imagination.
 
@not-rightfold :facepalm:
 
@한국매미 Yeah, he's sorta of overselling there. But I think his points about C++ are quite spot-on.
 
But did it argue anything new?
 
9:44 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh I'm not saying they're not, just saying that it makes his argument sound completely commercial.
 
Someone on reddit says he's been pushing companies to use Haskell or something, I don't know how true that is (nor do I really care)
 
@Rapptz Yes, he works for FPComplete
 
lol
This fly has been smacking itself on my lamp for about 4 hours
I wonder when it'll die
 
I didn't see an STL post
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes first he says that correct C++ replacement for malloc is new/delete, then he says that C++ had to drop compatibility with C? what a bullshit =\
 
9:50 AM
@DeadMG I linked to it earlier.
 
well I gotta say
if this guy is a C++ guru, then the non-gurus must seriously suck.
 
@Abyx I dunno what you are talking about.
 
@ScottW I suck
@ScottW asl?~~
 
Xeo
@Abyx Wat. He says that new replaces malloc, but that new produces pointers, which are bad.
 
new and delete were exactly what C++ added as alternatives to malloc and free. As usual, those alternatives fix the flaws of the original, but are still broken.
 
Xeo
9:53 AM
I don't know where you've drawn the compatibility-part from
 
@ScottW lol
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I disagree. His blog post is nothing but hype.
simple example
> And you know a new feature is badly designed if Scott Meyers has a talk about it. (His latest was about the pitfalls of, you guessed it, move semantics.)
every choice you ever make in any language will always have pitfalls.
that doesn't make it badly designed or the wrong thing to do
 
Time to buy garlic-chicken-barbecue pizza
 
Xeo
@DeadMG Eh, the names are badly designed :P
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I thought it should be make_unique and vector/dyn. arrays
 
9:55 AM
@Abyx Those are the ones that bring the new fixes.
 
@sehe it gets weird even on desktop
 
Xeo
Well this was some easy rep.
 
@DeadMG Enough to generate Scott Meyers talks?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Since he didn't actually link to the talk, it's kinda difficult for me to know what exact pitfalls he's talking about. Also, yes, I'm going to suggest that most choices have pitfalls that are non-trivial in most non-trivial software.
 
9:57 AM
@DeadMG He doesn't have to link to any talk. He's not talking about any particular pitfalls.
 
@BartekBanachewicz Nor at UI design
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Merely saying that there are pitfalls is essentially irrelevant. Using Haskell has pitfalls. There's no useful information there.
 
The feature is designed badly enough that lots of man-hours will be spent explaining and correcting issues from it.
@DeadMG If you want to ignore it, there is no useful information anywhere.
 
@한국매미 oh the iOS 7 icons are crappiest ever
> One of the UK’s major networks said that pre-orders for the iPhone 5C are “just one tenth of those seen in previous iPhone launches”.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but he doesn't offer any actual evidence either way except an appeal to authority. The only thing I could find about a Scott Meyers talk about the failures of rvalue refs is complaining about the overloading behaviour, which is hardly a showstopping pitfall.
 
10:01 AM
@BartekBanachewicz 5C isn't really attractive. It's nearly as expensive as 5S but not as nice.
 
@DeadMG You still seem to be unable to read past the parenthetical remark.
> Every remedy breeds another remedy. It’s no longer just the C subset that should be avoided. Every new language feature or library addition comes with a new series of gotchas.
Context.
 
IIRC Scott Meyers was corrected a few times by STL in his talk. Even he gets it wrong occasionally.
 
so what? no language or library feature is ever 100% gotcha-free.
 
Not in C++, that's true.
 
not that I don't agree that C++ has more gotchas than most.
 
10:04 AM
@DeadMG It should be.
 
but as far as I can see, it's on a pretty steadily declining trend.
 
At least it should aim to be as gotcha-free as possible.
 
I don't see any gotchas in using unique_ptr, for example.
 
@DeadMG Dunno about that. There are certainly improvements, but there are also clusterfucks like list-initialisation or std::async.
2
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm gonna agree with you on that one. But neither of those is the example he picked.
anyway, it's not that I don't believe C++ sucks, because I do, or that plenty of the new features are broken, because they are.
 
10:07 AM
I wouldn't disagree that the move semantics/rvalue references thing is another clusterfuck.
 
I would.
 
T&& is very confusing
 
It's not as bad as list-initialisation, but it is messy as fuck.
 
I agree that universal refs could be done better.
 
@StackedCrooked yeah the price is way too high
 
10:08 AM
but I think that a better version wouldn't be fundamentally different to what we have now
a bit easier to use, sure
 
Xeo
GAJKHAÖGHÄAGHÄ I had Markdown when it comes to code under lists :|
 
FWIW, the talk is on GN.
@Xeo ?
 
the scott meyers talk list only mentions some C++11/14 introductory talk at GN
 
Xeo
It tries to put the code block as non-code under the last list bullet :<
@DeadMG "Effective C++11/14"
And that's part of the talk.
 
ah right.
so he completely did not, in fact, make a talk about the pitfalls of move semantics.
 
10:12 AM
What he has so far covers only move semantics and rvalue refs, so I suppose that's the topic of the talk.
 
Xeo
@DeadMG He did.
That was basically the whole point of his talk
 
well, he could have named it a bit better then :P
 
I need a hug :( I feel as though university is making me dumber.
 
FWIW, Wide doesn't currently implement any kind of universal reference stuff.
 
Also, just for fun, sink<T>.
lol
 
10:15 AM
yeah, inorite.
at least Scott is a funny guy
 
@DeadMG link?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Arigatou gozaimashta
@R.MartinhoFernandes What testing tools do you use for C++?
 
Xeo
> A derivative of Microsoft PPL and Intel TBB should become part of the Standard (hopefully not Microsoft AMP)
Any idea what his problem with C++ AMP is?
 
@GamesBrainiac I use Catch.
 
Xeo
10:23 AM
Read my question again.
 
@Xeo Language extensions?
 
Xeo
Yeah, but what's his problem with "extensions" becoming part of the standard?
 
@Xeo my bad, sorry
 
No.
 
@Xeo Maybe that it only gives for_each or something? (Am I wrong?)
 
Xeo
10:28 AM
Also, isn't AMP based on PPL or something?
 
PPL and TBB give data structures and other algorithms.
 
user1804599
I decided I'm not going to buy a graphics card until I find I need one.
 
user1804599
Going to try integrated GPU first.
 
@not-rightfold do you play games?
 
user1804599
Minecraft.
 
user1804599
10:37 AM
But I don't want to waste money so I'm going to try and see first.
 
user1804599
I'm bad at predicting.
 
@not-rightfold i said games
 
user1804599
@한국매미 i said Minecraft
 
user1804599
Also Intel ftw because FOSS drivers.
 
user1804599
I don't want them to upload all my pixels to the NSA.
 
10:39 AM
@not-rightfold and?
 
lol why not?
what's the NSA gonna do with your pixels?
 
flamish D:
 
james bond > steven seagal
so it's less embarassing for us
 
@BartekBanachewicz nah you merely mean you have to use the drop down message menu to reply from the transcript. Hardly an effort considering you won't often reply to transcript messages. Trust me, I've been the king of transcript reading for at least a year.
 
I hate people that defend misleading explanations as "keeping it simple".
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes bash mercilessly with a clue stick
 
10:57 AM
It's especially annoying when the misleading bits are completely superfluous for the simple explanation.
 
Xeo
?
 
@sehe vOv I had a few problems with it. Whatever, this chat isn't particularly well suited to having such long conversations. (A nice feature request for Lounge<Chat>, I guess)
@ScottW hurr Minecraft durr
 
@BartekBanachewicz read up
 

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