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12:00 AM
@Jefffrey It is pretty obvious.
 
@sehe "never useful" is quite strict.. what about a weird platform with a superb compiler where references really are implemented as true aliases for types (ie. a reference doesn't occupy any extra space whatsoever). then it's both type safe and useful
the platform don't have to be weird, but it gets more interesting by calling it such
 
I can't sleep. Damnit
 
@TonyTheLion welcome to the club.
<- have real trouble sleeping
 
how come you can't sleep?
 
@TonyTheLion speaking of which, yesterday evening I thought I was hearing voices and knocked it off with "ah well, sleeping has been bad these few days, even for me. so I guess this is the breakpoint"
they were talking about such weird things though so, which I couldn't figure out why.. "if I were to talk about this with a doctor they sure would put me in some institutation, this doesn't make sense"
a few hours later I realize that the TV was on in the living room.
 
12:05 AM
lol
 
@TonyTheLion I've had trouble sleeping for the past 10 years
 
:(
How do you deal with it?
 
so no specific reason that I can think of really, I just can't sleep
 
IME
failure to sleep usually implies an environmental problem that's just too subtle
for example, slightly too hot.
 
I was hungry
 
12:07 AM
or an uncomfortable position
there ya go.
 
I haven't eaten much today
 
I stay awake until my body decides that it's time or shows signs of sever sleep deprevation (such as unable to coordinate simple tasks (mostly including your fingers))
and that sounds horrible now that I actually read it
 
I'm always unable to coordinate simple tasks that involve my fingers. Pretty much the only thing I'm good at is typing.
 
that's all you need for writing software
 
12:09 AM
...
 
so apparently, Pirate is coming to London and I may see him over the weekend
 
pretty sure you also need some modicum of intellect
 
yea intellect, you need that
 
it's funny though, the longer I'm awake the more crisp the world feels. it's like I can see further and further away. the moment I wake up from a period of actually sleeping I feel lost and trapped inside this bubble or whatever
 
@DeadMG You haven't been out much, have you? Look around.
 
12:09 AM
@TonyTheLion insurance covers that?
@R.MartinhoFernandes :)
 
@sehe No.
 
Risky
 
Very.
 
right now everything is crystal clear when I look out the window, which is a nice feeling but my mind is really active, too active. kinda hard to keep a straight line in terms of thoughts
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Alright, I admit that you seem to have gone far considering your utter lack of the aforementioned commodity.
 
12:11 AM
*golf clap*
 
gonna take a walk. gone
 
Hiyo
 
Heylo. Long time no seen!
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I hope me ragging on about ranges isn't becoming annoying but I quite liked this Haskell blog post. Kinda wish I could do this for non-saveable ranges.
 
Pipes are pretty cool.
 
12:20 AM
They are.
 
@CatPlusPlus Except steam pipes.
 
^ nice anger test. But, "hot sauce"; Seriously?
 
12:35 AM
Yes, definitely. — self. 1 min ago
^^ nominated for the most useful comment.
 
@Mysticial It was ok in the context :)
 
@sehe Yeah, I know. :)
 
I feel there was some highly voted answer with "yes". I don't remember where, though. Oh, wait, I do. The GoDaddy boycott.
I still don't understand their advertising.
 
"I feel"? That's odd language concerning facts
 
I guess "think" would have been better there.
 
12:47 AM
@Pawnguy7 or perhaps: "I think "guess" would have been better there."?
 
Ohai
 
@sehe hello.
 
> "[...] but I'm a speaker, ergo, I must speak." [Scott Meyers]
 
1:00 AM
I wish we could have templated constructors
 
...?
 
+1, I hate the tedium of writing another make_xxxxx function for type deduction
 
You can make templated constructors though
 
yeah, but that's useless for deduction
 
deduction of what?
 
1:02 AM
Error 1 error C2512: 'SAL::knownpointer<storedtype>::knownpointer' : no appropriate default constructor available c:\users\david\documents\visual studio 2012\projects\sal2\sal2\system.cpp 26
 
@Rapptz Of what not?
 
the type? Why would you need the type after you construct it?
 
God. Don't be dense. It's better to think 10 seconds than to be quick
 
@Rapptz You are sure i should be able to?
 
@Rapptz You want make_unique right? Remember why you wanted it?
 
1:03 AM
Yeah, class template argument deduction from constructor arguments would be handy. I think it's been proposed.
 
@Rapptz Make it a class template
 
@sehe That's not what it was about.
 
It was. You're being dense. He didn't formulate it very well. Get over it
 
Oh, so only implicit templates?
 
1:05 AM
I'm not being dense.
 
@DavidKron @DavidKron Please don't fuel it by spewing more confusing "terminology soup"
 
I can not give the constructor explicit template parameters*
 
@Rapptz You're totally right. David is an ignorant fool who didn't convey his point very well. He should be punished, and others who fail to point that out to him should be made miserable :)
 
1:07 AM
:)
 
@JerryCoffin lol
@DavidKron Unsure why'd you would want that tbh but more power to you.
 
@Rapptz Well i can just simply make a derived class that has this extra type parameter and then just throw around the baseclass, but im trying to get around that (tiny) overhead.
 
Now it makes even less sense since that sounds like a form of type erasure :s
 
^ +1
5 mins ago, by sehe
@DavidKron @DavidKron Please don't fuel it by spewing more confusing "terminology soup"
lol double @plink
 
@Rapptz It is :) , pastebin.com/7bYXeAXF
 
1:12 AM
@chris I seem to recall a template<using T; T t> syntax to do thing<10> rather than thing<decltype(10), 10> or something like that.
 
@JerryCoffin I was going to say something of that sort, but I decided to cut my losses short.
 
@DavidKron Type erasure is rather well understood. Hide the class templates inside your "base" (ugh) class.
 
@sehe But i dont want a baseclass, ive managed to do everything else without it.
 
@Rapptz Wide can do something like that.
 
But whatever, il just use a separate Make function that takes that extra type parameter
 
1:15 AM
@DavidKron Look at Sean Parent's "Inheritance Is The Base Class of Evil" talk channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/…. It shows an object_t that does precisely(?) what you are describing
@DavidKron (also, curious use of the word "But")
6 mins ago, by David Kron
@Rapptz Well i can just simply make a derived class that has this extra type parameter and then just throw around the baseclass, but im trying to get around that (tiny) overhead.
 
@Rapptz I saw that, too, but it was different.
 
How weird, he didn't put the slides up online.
Well, I can't find it anyway.
 
@Rapptz I've seen them. It's linked in the comments IIRC
 
@sehe Awesome :)
 
1:20 AM
> Sep 07, 2013 at 11:36 PM @sbehnke15: Recent code can be found here: github.com/sean-parent/sean-parent.github.com/wiki/… [SeanParent]
 
I really need to get my head around Game programming.
I can't seem to design an appropriate architecture for a really basic top down game.
 
@Jefffrey I find designing games from the ground up very difficult.
 
Then don't design architecture. Just write the damn thing.
2
 
@CatPlusPlus Hell yeah, C style.
 
Whatever style. Nobody cares.
 
1:21 AM
I do.
 
Yup designing is for the experienced. It's impossible to design for success if you don't know what success looks like
 
Pick a design. Any design. You'll know when it sucks.
Next time you'll know more about what to avoid.
 
@Jefffrey Your initial version is going to suck anyway, so "plan to throw one away" (but don't plan too hard for that, or you'll end up throwing away two).
 
@JerryCoffin Ok. But, I mean, I don't even know where to start. I'm not saying I don't want to do some trial-and-error. I'm just saying that having a basic idea would be good. And I don't know where to look. For example, I've read 20+ articles on the Composition/Component/Entity system and they are all the same: they explain the problem with inheritance, they give a general overview of the pattern and then they stop. They don't give practical examples.
So I try to write an architecture my own, and I find myself building a "signal/slots" system.
 
Stop reading shitty articles about crappy petterns and just start writing code.
Design is an end to a goal, not an end in itself.
 
1:28 AM
@CatPlusPlus I guess having a clear idea about a design is going to be helpful. Isn't it?
 
You're not getting paid, you don't have any deadlines. There is literally no need to do anything but start prototyping.
 
@Jefffrey Two obvious choices: keep it simpler, or use an existing signals/slots implementation (e.g., Boost Signals)
 
Write everything in fucking main(), whatever, just make it work.
You'll notice that real patterns are emergent.
 
At least... start in main :)
 
And ~~~patterns~~~ is just loads of shit.
 
1:29 AM
Unless it's wallpaper
 
Git's smarter than I thought lol
 
IMPOSSIBRU (also, that's no way to refer to your girlfriend!)
 
Ok, let's try to prototype something and see.
 
@sehe Even if you write it all in main, at least it's not BASIC with line numbers!
 
You can still use labels.
 
1:32 AM
int main() {
_10: printf("hello world\n");
_20: goto _10;
}
 
Declare all variables at the start, and you're all set!
 
vardecl!
 
"Ready, set, goto", as Ancient Egyptians used to say.
 
Do you think going with potentially bad design, and learning later, is better than stalling forever in indecision?
 
Ready, Poke, Gosub
 
1:34 AM
Yes.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah, if you're masochistic enough. My point was that lots of games got written in BASIC, and even though it sucked and they sucked, you could still make things work. Writing everything in main doesn't take full advantage of C++, but is still a lot better than BASIC even tried for.
 
@Pawnguy7 It's a Pattern!
Analysis paralysis or paralysis of analysis is the state of over-analyzing (or over-thinking) a situation so that a decision or action is never taken, in effect paralyzing the outcome. A decision can be treated as over-complicated, with too many detailed options, so that a choice is never made, rather than try something and change if a major problem arises. A person might be seeking the optimal or "perfect" solution upfront, and fear making any decision which could lead to erroneous results, when on the way to a better solution. The phrase describes a situation where the opportunity cost...
 
I get that with women.
 
@CatPlusPlus "Ready, Poke, Gosub"? lol
 
Ye- no.
 
1:35 AM
hehe
Off to bed. Night all
 
@sehe aka "the HURD effect" (well, probably nobody's really called it that, but it fits).
 
The Kyrostat effect
Oh wait that's something else
 
@sehe G'night.
 
Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released nor officially cancelled. Vaporware is also a term sometimes used to describe events that are announced or predicted, never officially cancelled, but never intended to happen. The term also generally applies to a product that is announced months or years before its release, and for which public development details are lacking. The word has been applied to a growing range of products including consumer, auto...
@JerryCoffin :)
 
Lazyware.
 
1:37 AM
> In software development, analysis paralysis typically manifests itself through exceedingly long phases of project planning, requirements gathering, program design and data modeling, with little or no extra value created by those steps.
 
@sehe I'm surprised the thumbnail is not rightfold's avatar ;)
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Bite my shiny metal Turbo button [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq] [no-questions]
 
lol Turbo button
 
I don't know why I thought about that.
 
I saw a keyboard a few days ago with it
Didn't know they still existed in AD 2013.
 
1:38 AM
@sehe That was really interesting, its very close to what I´m doing. Ive always felt almost certain that photoshop had a bunch of memory leaks.
 
1:51 AM
So, is that a yes?
 
@Jefffrey Worst case scenario you'll end up with a game like this
Okay maybe that's not very encouraging
 
lol, not at all
 
What kind of game do you have in mind?
 
No game at all. Just a movable circle on a tile-map. I've already written it like 2 years ago in SFML. I just wanted to find the perfect design so that it is extremely extendible and shit like that.
 
Scope creep also.
 
1:56 AM
I guess I should just stop being such a perfectionist and get my shit together like Cat said.
 
Probably not a bad idea, if my lack of finished projects is any indication.
 
I'v been a perfectionist fag for 4 years now. It's time to write something.
 
See my... what do you call it? The picture?
 
Screensaver?
 
No. The islands.
Not sure if it is called a gravatar or avatar here.
 
2:02 AM
@Jefffrey Sounds like you're suffering from the "Second system effect".
 
Gravatar is avatar
 
@Pawnguy7 Oh, did you write that?
 
The island generator? Yes. In javascript, which was a very bad idea now that I think of it. I think I had some idea about sharing it... or something.
Anyway, I was thinking, remake it in C++, and sort of... minecraft-style chunks.
 
@Pawnguy7 You are all about "generators", lol
 
2:03 AM
It would seem that way, yes.
Perhaps it is because I suck at everything else.
Do you have something like that, that you prefer over other things?
 
@JerryCoffin Let's hope not. :P
@Pawnguy7 Not particularly. I really like top-down 2d games (like the old GTA1 and GTA2) though.
 
@Jefffrey Trying to drastically over-engineer, to fix every problem you had (or perceived) in the previous version sounds pretty close to me.
 
> The second-system effect (also known as second-system syndrome) refers to the tendency of small, elegant, and successful systems to have elephantine, feature-laden monstrosities as their successors due to inflated expectations.
I meant, let's hope it doesn't go that way.
But yeah, the diagnosis seems to be that.
 
I want to play dis game
inb4 rapptz bursts my bubble :P
 
The bad part about second system effect is that even though it sucks in some ways, you almost need to make those mistakes to learn and get past them. I was very careful to avoid them for a long time, but eventually found it was a poor idea -- once I finally gave in and did a terrible design, I learned a lot, and got quite a bit better (at least IMO).
 
2:12 AM
I understand that. Really.
 
I've been remaking something purely because I want to make it better.
 
It's just that I've always thought of programming as writing poetry, in the constant seek for the perfect design that makes the code beautiful, rather than a tool to get things done.
lol, I think this is a good moment to mature a little bit.
 
@Jefffrey You like Edgar Allen Poe?
 
* note: at the end I've never even be close to finish a project; I've usually just stand there for months on a single component because it was not "good enough".
 
"Failure is an option" and all that jazz.
 
2:17 AM
@Rapptz I don't think I've ever read anything he wrote.
 
lol
 
Just do shit. It'll suck anyway.
(Because you're a low-level savage that still writes C++)
 
lol
 
The cat is such a well of positive energy...
3
 
Reading books and articles doesn't teach you anything, other than "books and articles are boring"
 
2:18 AM
@CatPlusPlus "for performance"
 
Also 99% of people on the Internet are either stupid, wrong, or both.
 
It seems it's "spew all your opinions" hour.
 
@CatPlusPlus s/on the Internet//
 
GO FORTH AND CODE
Forth is p interesting, coincidentally.
 
@Borgleader Sturgeon's Law in action.
 
2:20 AM
I'm gonna finish database migration stuff. AW YEAH
 
@Jefffrey have you made something performance-crucial?
 
@CatPlusPlus Love how you complain about C++ being low level, then say nice things about Forth.
 
It is extremely boring.
 
@Pawnguy7 No, I was kidding. Choosing C++ for performance (like 90% of the kids do) doesn't make much sense.
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah well, I consider myself to be equally idiotic on and off the internet, so... at the very least that applies to me ;)
 
2:21 AM
I choose C++ because I like it. It's not as bad as the second coming of Jesus as Cat makes it out to be.
 
@JerryCoffin It helps that it's not annoying.
I sometimes have a seco- oh that thing, nevermind
 
@Jefffrey I just noticed you used qoutes there.
 
@CatPlusPlus Hmmm...even though I grew up (well, sort of) on HP calculators, even I have to admit that RPN in written form is...less than aesthetically pleasing.
 
It's fun. I don't care.
 
2:26 AM
@CatPlusPlus Implementing it is fun. Probably 90% of the Forth I've written was in implementing it though.
 
@Borgleader lol S++++
 
2:47 AM
either flash or chrome is going nuts. flash player now transcends tabs...
 
When in doubt, blame both.
 
@Borgleader The binary test is quite difficult
 
3:06 AM
morning all
 
morning
 
morning
 
@Rapptz I only use C++ because I'm forced to at University against my will. If it were up to me, I'd use C# and Python all day.
 
I see.
 
@Rapptz But I'm definitely not as comfortable with it as you are. I guess since you're good at it, you like using it.
@Jefffrey Whats up?
I need coffee
 
3:17 AM
C# and Python are pretty easy imo.
 
@GamesBrainiac I just made to the top (4th position though) of this game, (using password "survival").
 
lol
fun(concept_cast<ConceptA>(a));
 
@Rapptz Yes, yes they are. They're incredibly useful and capable as well.
 
I only use C# for Windows dev and Python for simple scripts.
 
What do you use C++ for then?
 
3:20 AM
For fun.
Originally I used it for hacking games
But reverse engineering stopped being fun about 4 years in.
 
Fuck! It's 5:22 am.
Better go to sleep.
 
@Rapptz I see. Well, I mostly want to develop web apps. So, Python is a nice fit for me.
 
I don't like web dev
 
Nobody likes web dev
 
@Rapptz It can be tedious, but rewarding at the same time.
@ScottW If you're not using php, hating it will take longer
 
3:26 AM
No, because
IE
Also JavaScript
 
@CatPlusPlus I'm talking serverside man.
 
And HTML
And CSS
 
I hate frontend
 
:lol:
My point.
 
@CatPlusPlus Well look on the bright side, I don't have to use ruby :P
 
3:29 AM
Yes.
 
yes, yes it is
it makes no fucking sense
 
Ruby is beautiful
 
I secretly wish I could be Youtube-famous and get money for making shitty Minecraft videos
5
 
That's not a secret anymore.
 
Ahahaha why the fuck am I thinking about mortgage when I have no real idea what I want to do in future
Jesus
I'm terrible at life
 
3:35 AM
@CatPlusPlus How old are you?
 
Mentally or physically
 
The latter
 
Mentally you are pessimist 90yo guy
 
Ahahah I'm 21 what the fuck
 
3:36 AM
:P
 
No, more like 8
 
Both extremes fit you.
 
Everything's terrible
 
Oh come on.
 
That's my life motto. I stole it from Dark Souls LP
 
user425495
3:38 AM
everything's mediocre
 
Cheer up a little. :)
But anyway. Night everybody.
 
@CatPlusPlus the transcript here can be so depressing sometimes
fuck I am 22 and still in college
 
@A.H. In 19 and still and college :(
 
@GamesBrainiac syntax error
 
Damn those 17yo entrepreneurs.
 
3:47 AM
next project Lounge<Startup and home financing>
 
@A.H. btw, morning, how you holdin up?
@Jefffrey night bro
 
> 5:01 Dangerous Swarms - Africanized bees attack and kill man.by 22fvt Recommended for you
THANKS YOUTUBE
THIS IS VERY HELPFUL
ugh
 
4:11 AM
 
4:27 AM
@GamesBrainiac fine thanks, hows your day?
 
its just started. I've decided to do nothing productive today
and watch anime
 
same thing , but watching the walking dead
 
@GamesBrainiac any good ones?
 
Watching Servant x Service
 
5:14 AM
Anybody have a std::unique_lock::transfer example?
 
 
1 hour later…
6:15 AM
@CatPlusPlus Fun Fact: I watch dozens of Minecraft videos every day as part of my job. It's a positive feedback loop. The more I watch, the more of them show up on my to-watch list. Eventually, everything is a Minecraft video. So I have no option other than to watch more Minecraft videos.
 
@Mysticial You lucky bastard
 
@GamesBrainiac Except when it starts to get old. :)
 
@Mysticial Wait, so your job at youtube is to watch youtube vids?
 
@GamesBrainiac Well yeah.
 
@Mysticial I so want your job :(
 
6:19 AM
Not as much as the testers and QC guys, but I still need to watch videos.
 
@Mysticial Sounds like a nightmare
 
I need to start searching for more TF2 videos so I put them back on my "recommended list" that Google generates for me.
But being the tester guys isn't exactly fun. Somebody reports a bug. You need to work out the repros steps to forward to us devs. And that could mean watching the same 30-min. video 10+ times with slightly different settings each time.
For us devs, the videos that we watch the most are the 100% ad ones setup by the ads department so we can test ads.
And there's only like a few of them.
And after watching them over and over and fucking over again dozens of times... it gets... well... old
And one of those videos is a 15 min. traffic camera overlooking the Golden Gate Bridge...
Our captions guy has been watching the same "caption test" video dozens of times every day for the past 6 weeks.
I have it a little better. I'm working on the video backend. So I get to choose what I want to watch.
But overall, we still get to watch videos. So that's probably better than the average programming job.
 
6:44 AM
@Mysticial Still, it can't be as bad as my job
I'm a university student
 
@GamesBrainiac You get to stay up late.
 
@Mysticial No. no we dont, we have classes 8 in the morning
 
Granted, most of the guys here don't show up to work until like 10:30. But they also leave late.
 
its like i never left school
 
@GamesBrainiac Having classes at 8 in the morning doesn't prevent you from staying up late.
 
6:45 AM
@Mysticial there's a limit though, since the university is a little far
the max is 12.
I hate that, since I'm used to partying all the way to 4
:(
@Mysticial anyhoo, do you watch servant x service?
 
9
A: Nested quote trolling

bfavarettoThat becomes unreadable in the mobile version (screenshot for iOS 6, iPhone 5):

^^ AHAHAHAHA
 
The OP's quote looks sexy though :P
I going to a job interview today
just 2 hours away
 
On a weekend?
 
7:06 AM
yea
undergrads are cheap slave labor
 
7:22 AM
@GamesBrainiac gl
 
7:49 AM
@DavidKron lol. I honestly can't tell what you're saying. Are you by any chance the same account as chris?
Because I get that with him/her too. This "stream of consciousness" style of posting is al but complete meaningless to me. Sorry
@Mysticial Only 8 minutes late:
I feel compelled to point out that your example looks like this on mobile Safari. — Tim Stone yesterday
 
Xeo
8:14 AM
@Borgleader I did indeed.
 
@sehe That sentence structure was relatively simple..
Did you link to the wrong one?
 
8:55 AM
lol
Dude! That's NSFW! — Bart yesterday
 
9:08 AM
@kbok I am wondering if we should provide both ref and const_ref classes
 
That would be nice, if we could get it to respect c++ const semantics
 
@kbok I am looking at the ref/table/proxy stuff, and it strikes me that you wanted to construct them from const ref&
I was puzzled what it's supposed to mean
we have to agree on some semantics of the reference itself
 
yeah
I wrote const ref & even though I'm aware it doesn't really make sense
 
@kbok I've put your code in a proper branch, you've prolly seen that. I think it's a nice starting point to look. I'd like to add a few finishing touches and merge my extended tests.
 
Okay
I have to go, but I'll be online tomorrow to work on this
 
9:23 AM
okay.
 
user1804599
9:38 AM
Vim abbreviations are awesome.
 
user1804599
If I type cxup<, it inserts std::unique_ptr<.
 
morning
@not-rightfold Ever tried the ycm plugin?
 
user1804599
No, you?
 
recently spent a shitload of time getting it to run ^^
I was too stupid to get a libclang from the last decade on ubuntu
anyway, it seems pretty nice, a lot like working in a real IDE
 

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