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12:00 PM
Yes, I believe it defaults to either normal TLS or SSL. I forget. I know that we had to change this when an api we used switched to TLS1.1 and TLS1.2
 
4.5+ should support tls1.2
 
Supports. but not default
 
Exactly. .NET4.5 supports TLS11 and TLS12 but only if you enable it.
.NET40 does not support > TLS10
 
morning peepl
 
who was talking with me about get and set on properties a little while back?
this code compiles against .Net 4.5 ...
public IResourceProvider ResourceProvider { get; }

        public ApiMetadataProvider(IResourceProvider resourceProvider)
        {
            ResourceProvider = resourceProvider;
        }
 
12:12 PM
that's C# 6.0 though
 
works in .Net 4.5 ... i was suprised to see this as i didn't think it would
 
What is that doing exactly?
 
doesn't matter. The newer C# 6 compiler can target older .Net versions just fine.
@Michael it's just a short-hand way of saying public IResourceProvider ResourceProvider { get; private set; }
 
@Squiggle yeh, i think the conversation went something like "you have to specify both get and set"
 
@Squiggle doesnt seem shorthand
 
12:14 PM
and at the time I recall agreeing ... odd that this does exactly that and works without the set
 
@Darth_Wardy "IResourceProvider" smells like a Service Provider antipattern though ;)
@Michael eh, it's a tiny difference.
 
@Squiggle its an object that provides resource strings
 
OK I'll let you off this time.
 
yeh don't worry im not doing any IKernel / IIoCObject type stuff
 
IIoCObject is a terrible name for an interface
 
12:17 PM
@StevenLiekens exactly why i dont have one ... lol
 
@StevenLiekens In fact, one should architect one's code to avoid interfaces that start with I. I'm pretty sure that's why .NET went with IEnumerable over IIterable.
 
its also a bad idea in that you shouldn't be passing your IoC object to anything in your stack
 
I am randomly getting "ERROR [IM002] [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not found and no default driver specified"
When i try to open a ODBCconnection... literally nothing has changed.
 
does anyone know if there's somewhere that I can talk to any of the people working on EF?
 
@Michael is the odbc connection setup in your data sources in your control panel correctly?
 
12:19 PM
like, a chat channel or anything
 
resharper likes to complain when I have class names that start with I
 
@anaximander on their github repo perhaps?
 
like IPAddress
 
@Darth_Wardy it was.. everything was working perfect. I'll try to recreate the DSNs I guess
 
@Darth_Wardy been there, but I don't see anything like a Gitter link
I don't want to open an issue, because it's more vague
I have a scenario I'd like to talk through with someone who knows EF very well
 
12:20 PM
@anaximander I would but clearly state its more a discussion point
 
google is being unhelpful because the terminology is overloaded
 
most these github repos tag things as being such
 
I may try that, then
related: has anyone ever messed about with EF migrations from code?
and I don't mean scaffolded migrations
 
The suggested place to have conversations about EF is either on codeplex or github, depending on EF version.
Suggested by MSFT
 
I mean I have a DB that may or may not have EF migrations enabled, and if they are enabled, they may or may not be by this assembly, and I want to get EF to re-do its schema inspection and work out how to update it to the correct schema
currently, it assumes that "no __MigrationHistory" means that it has to create everything
which obviously throws "already exists"-flavoured errors
 
12:23 PM
yeah, don't try to be too "outside-the-box" with EF migrations.
it doesn't deal well with ambiguity
 
yeah... I'm getting that
basically our problem is that EF migrations work off that big hash of the model
 
if there's no __MigrationHistory there's absolutely no way for EF migrations to know that this is the right database to update.
 
so if you've got multiple devs on multiple branches, then things fall down if that hash isn't what it expected
 
you have a bunch of migrations that you need to apply to different db instances?
oh that should be fine to do - so long as all devs start from the same point.
 
the thing is, if I drop __MigrationHistory, go into VS, and run enable-migrations followed by update-database, then it works fine
so basically I need to do that, but without VS
ie. from inside a console app
DbMigrator.Update() covers the update-database part
 
12:26 PM
that's really VS-centric functionality. I'd advise against it.
 
but I need the enable-migrations part
 
your problem is that you don't know what your db looks like, yet you want to run your migration scripts against it
 
@Squiggle pretty much
 
so you want EF to so "some magic" and hope that each database of unknown schema ends up the same?
 
12:27 PM
the thing is, EF knows what it needs to look like afterwards, because it's got the configuration in the assembly
 
...good luck with that.
 
EF is magic, EF is life
 
and I know that EF is capable of working out how to get from "current" to the desired state
 
but it might not be able to do clean migrations - because of key conflicts, dropped data etc. It's really not fool-proof.
 
because if I do enable-migrations; update-database; then EF does exactly what I want
so I know it can
 
12:28 PM
jsut because it works fine in one instance doesn't mean it'll be fine in another.
 
I'm ok with errors from having AutomaticDataLossAllowed = false cause it to fail
 
What sort of branching strategy are you using, anyhow?
 
that's fine
pretty loose branching
 
can't you just start with migrations on the main dev branch and get other devs to rebase and update their own?
sounds like you've diverged too much. Are you effectively working with multiple different products? :P
 
the issue has two sides
one is in dev
where we might have one team adding one feature, and another team adding another feature, and if they both add a migration then whichever tries to merge second finds that EF doesn't like the hash of the database and so won't apply their migration even though it would work perfectly if EF tried
 
12:31 PM
 
@Darth_Wardy spaces in the connectionstring seemed to throw it off somehow? I dont think ive touched the connectionstring, and the spaces have been there
so weird
 
@anaximander I wouldn't use EF migrations in that environment. Just generate migration scripts for your own branch and let others worry about that when they come to merge.
 
it doesn't cause a merge problem though
it throws at runtime because EF looks at the hash and says nope
whereas if it looked over the DB schema it'd be fine
we've had it where context.Database.CompatibleWithModel(); will return false, because there's a column missing, but migrator.Update() will throw because it can't add a column that already exists
because the column wasn't actually missing, it's there, but it's not in the hash
so basically I want to make EF ignore the hashes and actually look at the schema
I know it looks at the schema at some point, in order to generate that hash
 
can you remove the model prefix from the querystring in webapi
 
because it's capable of enabling migrations on a database that already exists, which it couldn't do without looking at that database at least a little bit
 
12:36 PM
aka a GET with id becomes ?model.id=
 
@anaximander my gut feeling is that this is the wrong strategy for you to take.
 
i concur.
 
@Squiggle I realise some of this is super weird
not all of it is my call, sadly
 
it's not "super weird". It just smells Very Wrong.
 
@Failsafe you want it optional?
 
12:37 PM
what's wrong with just using EF to script some sql updates?
 
to back up a step and give you some context...
 
I mean i probably cant
 
we like EF migrations, but we don't want to give the API dbcreator rights
(for obvious reasons)
 
eh w/e
 
so the plan was to add a console app, give the DbContext a null initialiser in the API, inherit in the console app and give it a migrations initialiser there
so then the console app is run by our deployment server, which obviously already has dbcreator
and our lead dev wants this to be hands-off
so we have One Source Of Truth regarding the model; ie. the classes in the solution are It
we could generate scripts and run those, but then the scripts are a second way to represent the DB, and could therefore get out of sync, which is deemed a Bad Thing
so I've been tasked with building that console migrations runner
and it (apparently) needs to Just Work on a database, regardless of what the DB looks like beforehand
so we can do things like taking an old package from months ago (compiled binary, not source) and re-running it to do perfect rollback
which apparently is a thing we want
 
12:42 PM
wish i could send a body with http get
sometimes
 
so this is to be hooked up to CI/CD, so it builds master and deploys the DB with it
only, we have multiple teams working in master wherever we can do so without merge conflicts because apparently that's easier
 
@Failsafe NO! bad failsafe!!
that's called a POST
 
so their differing databases are being deployed over each other, and then EF migrations fall down
 
what is a TNS service? Transparent Network Substrate .... that is gross
 
@Failsafe if you need to send that much with a GET, chances are that your model and/or query and/or URLs need looking at
@Darth_Wardy that said, on rare occasions, GET would be semantically nicer
POST tends to be creation
 
12:45 PM
@anaximander name one such occasion?
you can always define a custom verb
GETWITHBODY
but that should never be in the global standard
 
@Darth_Wardy actually one of our devs recently asked the same thing (can I send a body with GET) - he was doing bulk validation of stuff in an uploaded multi-thousand-line file
 
it promotes douchery
 
so he needed to GET the records matching these IDs, a few hundred or thousand at a time
 
@anaximander he was validating some data ... so its more correct that he "POST" his data to be validated
 
obviously, doing several thousand individual GETs was a bad idea
ah, he was doing the validation though
 
12:47 PM
@anaximander that's why i use OData
get using a query, returns a batch
 
so he wanted to GET the records matching the IDs, and then use that data to validate the file contents
 
Hrrrm. Doesn't change state on the server...but then I don't think POST actually has to.
Just that GET must not
 
@TomW correct (as the general recommendation goes)
 
so he ended up POSTing the IDs of everyone he wanted to... er... get.
 
This conversation is riveting.
 
12:48 PM
so yeah, that's basically a BULKGET or something
 
@Sippy stfu sip you like web forms
 
but I hate custom verbs too
 
fuck off
 
just because it's soo unintuitive
 
@anaximander a specific set ... could he not get them using where some criteria was met as a filter expression?
 
12:48 PM
Lol you work for Gala Bingo
That's cool
 
@Darth_Wardy sadly, the only criteria was "where their ID exists in this file"
 
somebody tell me something about Java
 
@SteveG it's great
best language ever created
 
@anaximander how big was that file?
 
!!kappa
 
12:49 PM
cool thanks
 
@Sippy That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.
 
@Sippy yep, in-house Software Engineering team
 
why is there no kappa command
 
might have made more sense to send the file and have the server validate it
 
@Darth_Wardy anywhere between a few hundred and about half a million rows
 
12:49 PM
@anaximander I work about 50 mins south of Nottingham atm :)
 
@anaximander reasonable
 
i might stop posting random thoughts i have in this room because you guys take them too seriously
 
Considering applying to work for Capital One at some point
Their offices are coooooool
 
@Sippy if you do, say hi to Chris
 
Does chris attend dotnetnotts?
 
12:50 PM
 
@Sippy our previous lead dev is now their lead dev
 
@Sippy One of my old coworkers is a java architect at COne
 
im bored, can you tell
 
@Sippy oh you know dotnetnotts? I used to work with a bunch of those guys
 
get a job steve
 
12:51 PM
lol
 
@SteveG that would still boot
 
@anaximander Yeah my team lead is presenting there on monday :)
 
@Sippy Marvin sat opposite me, if you know him
 
He gave me a free webstorm license
lol
 
this is where it turns out you and I have met and don't know it
 
12:51 PM
hahaha I doubt it
I've only been this far north since February
 
user47589
Good morning fellow knights of coctothorpe
 
Instead of C# chat can we call it Coctothorpe Castle?
 
user47589
I approve.
 
user47589
It's like Camelot, but none of the tables are round.
 
@Amy GOOD MORNING! and happy hump day
 
user47589
12:57 PM
hump day?
 
user47589
giggity?
 
giggity
 
@Amy What shape would the tables be
 
square
i need a life
you're right
 
Are you having an early midlife crisis or something
 
user47589
12:58 PM
shaped like the VS logo
 
30k on a car, loss of purpose, carrying a blanket everywhere
sounds like midlife crisis to me
 
how did you know i carry a blankie?
and yes, i've been having one for about 5 months now
im not kidding
 
user47589
 

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