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1:00 PM
If I'm in a situation where I can't make Middle Eastern coffee I make what I call "zappucinco". Put a small amount of boiling water in the bottom of a mug (1-2 cm), add sugar without stirring, add finely ground coffee on top (preferably turkish grind, but espresso grind is ok), and then zap it in a microwave for around 30 seconds until it foams up.
Immediately top up with hot water & stir. Give it 30 seconds or so for the grains to settle before drinking. Milk can be added after the grains settle, if desired.
 
@PM2Ring Turkish coffee's great, but you really need to grind the coffee fine (and like sweet coffee)
 
hmmm....
what a sacriledge.
the real coffee comes from Vietnam
 
morning guys
got a quick question.
 
@Ming morning
 
t1 = list[]
t2 = list[]
t3 = list[]
# continue until 100 lists using for loop

for x in range(100):
	t+x = []
i cant figure out how
morning @AnttiHaapala
 
1:02 PM
well, we can't figure either, you'd get syntax error on the first line
 
@AnttiHaapala Hey, it's not always practical to make proper coffee. Many workplaces don't have a stove, but they almost all have microwaves these days.
 
i know the code does not work. but just to share what im trying to do.
 
@Ming you should be using a list of lists
like:
t = [[] for i in range(100)]
after which your first list is t[0], all the way up to t[99]
 
can i give each list a unique name?
using a for loop.
 
well, you could, but above you have them numbered
 
1:05 PM
@Programmer It's a pretty generic "recipe". It just says "place on a low heat". FWIW, I've never had coffee made on hot sand, only on electric elements or gas burners.
 
user6568562
@holdenweb I dig them [ : Can't wait to be able to be productive
 
@Ming if you'd ask it on the main site, you'd get referred to this question and answer: stackoverflow.com/a/1373185/918959
 
user6568562
lol Hot sand coffee is overrated. A nice stove with a little bit of fire makes wonderful coffee
 
How is hot sand (meant to be) different? Spreads the heat more evenly (or that's what the sellers say to the hipsters that stump up for it)?
 
that is if you want "named" variable variables, you'd use a dictionary.
if you want to have numbered, you'd use a list.
 
user559633
1:07 PM
@RobertGrant it's more "authentic" and the coffee, even though it's being made in a metal container, really opens up because of it
 
@AnttiHaapala thanks very much. yeah will check SO more :)
 
stove... lol
 
@Ming and if you're insane, you can do what you asked. But, don't do that, because it's probably not what you want.
 
if you can't make Vietnamese, then make this ^
 
user559633
I put ground coffee bean in a filter and pour hot water over it.
 
1:08 PM
@WayneWerner haha. why so? u mean using named lists?
 
user6568562
@AnttiHaapala Can't imagine PM2Ring's manager being happy if he spends his time gathering rocks and wood. "It's for the taste, goddamit !"
 
user559633
Coffee snobs and audiophiles have a lot in common
 
@tristan whaaa?
 
because you're mucking about with locals() or globals(), which is always a bad idea. Also awkward because you don't have a single collection of all of these lists
 
user6568562
1:10 PM
@RobertGrant Tsss, hot sand coffee is too mainstream. Real coffee cônöiçeurs prepare coffee from the heat of camls' butt cheeks
 
@Ming the thing is, if you are going to create code that dynamically adds names to the namespace, how do you write the code that uses those names ... ?
 
@randomhopeful and, it's made of poop
 
@Ming frankly I've been programming in Python for 15 years, and not only what you want to do is a bad idea it is also unnecessary (as in I've never needed it in those 15 years).
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala Let him/her burn his/her hand on the stove. It's the only way, I think.
 
@tristan I disagree. I didn't do it, ever :D
 
1:12 PM
Voting to close this conversation as a dupe of sopython.com/canon/20/…
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala Different people need to take different approaches to learn
 
user6568562
@WayneWerner Someone told me about this and I made fun of him the whole night. I guess, I'll have to apologize to him now but this is too insane
 
Then you end up doing stuff like getattr(thing, expression_to_create_name) or globals()[expression_to_create_name] which are a) far from easy to undestand, and b) a much more difficult way to do things than by using somedict[expression_to_create_name]
 
user6568562
I can't believe this is true, lawl
 
1:12 PM
@RobertGrant Yeah, the heat is even and constant, unlike on a wood fire. But I guess the main selling point is that it's traditional (and convenient for the street-side vendor). Some lovers of Middle Eastern style coffee are a bit snobbish about the fact that it's "the oldest of the established brewing processes", so the more traditional you do it, the better. :)
I must confess that one of the reasons I was first attracted to it is because it's such an old method, but I try not to be snobbish about it. :)
 
user559633
What if I told you that modern stoves can produce low, even, constant heating?
 
@randomhopeful It's from The Oatmeal...
 
Never drunk brewed civet shit myself, but some (wealthy?) people swear by it
 
I've got fakish vietnamese civet coffee, it is ok. I am not actually sure what that stuff is but it does have the animal in the label.
 
@AnttiHaapala @WayneWerner thanks for the advice. yeah, i actually wanted to generate a set of random lists. was learning the Apriori Algorithm. ended up doing this instead.
import random

t = [[] for i in range(10)]
for l in t:
	for y in range(random.randrange(0, 11)):
		l.append(random.randrange(0, 11))
	print(l)

print('there are 10 lists here. the first list is ', t[0])
 
1:14 PM
Yes, that's very much what you wanted to do, lol
 
user559633
I've been trying to make domestic Kopi Luwak using my cats, but they're not cooperating
 
user6568562
@holdenweb That's the correct terminology : D Brewed civet sh!t
 
@Ming you're now doing lists of lists of lists?
 
@AnttiHaapala yeah. it generates 10 random lists. wanted to do that
 
user559633
 
1:16 PM
@tristan Some can, some have an annoying tendency to cut in and out (like the halogen cooktop I use). And modern electric stoves aren't so practical for the typical Middle Eastern roadside vendor. :)
 
it generates 10 random lists with random number of random lists in them
 
user559633
this little guy looks awesome
 
user559633
@PM2Ring Makes sense :) I was just being a butt
 
@holdenweb haha. good point. just realised that. thanks :)
 
@PM2Ring yeah I'd definitely try it just to see how it tasted, for that exact reason
 
user6568562
1:18 PM
@PM2Ring I have to admit that I've never tasted coffee made on hot sand, only heard about it. But I ate bread made in rudimentary clay "ovens" and it tastes out of this world
 
user559633
Sorry about your halogen burner stove :(
 
I just don't care about authenticity because I haven't found a good definition of it :)
 
real coffee is brewed in a sock
 
user559633
amazon.com/Hario-Water-Coffee-1000ml-Brown/dp/B00I7JKAQ0/… recommendation for this for cold brew coffee making
 
Real coffee is eating entire coffee plants whole
I have an Aeropress at home - not used it yet but it looks cool
 
user559633
1:19 PM
Do you think meth addicts have subdivisions of snobbery and "more authentic" preferences?
 
@tristan "This isn't 98% pure! It can't be above 75%"
 
The only coffee I've seen that "bubbled" was the hot sand. Sorry for causing a heated discussion :)
 
user559633
@Programmer Heh, I see what you did there.
 
user6568562
"Check out this tourist, he buys his crack pipes from home depot"
 
That was actually not planned, but I'll take credit.
 
user559633
1:21 PM
lol. "Ugh, I can taste the store brand Sudafed."
 
@Programmer Accidental puns are better
"This totally isn't made with the Bee stuff"
 
@tristan Oh, it's ok for most stuff, and very easy to keep clean; just a bit annoying when I'm making coffee.
 
user559633
Fair trade crank
 
user6568562
@PM2Ring Since you like middle eastern coffee, you might like this composer
 
user559633
@PM2Ring Does yours have that "auto off" feature when it detects/decides that a pan isn't covering enough of the heating surface?
 
1:25 PM
@RobertGrant to paraphrase Groucho Marx "The only thing that matters is authenticity. If you can fake that, you've got it made"
 
@tristan Exactly. So it gets confused by my coffee pot, which has a fairly small base.
 
user559633
I love people buying into "authentic", like $350 wooden axes sold in SoHo, NYC. Axes with a backstory.
 
@holdenweb can't disagree with that :-)
That's why I only use authentic, artisanal phrases plucked from the rarest of sources. I'm loving it!
 
Wow. Those axes are impressive.
 
@tristan those look nice
 
user559633
1:30 PM
@PM2Ring Ha, that's so frustrating. I used one for most of the winter and would wince when I'd put something on to heat up, walk away, and hear "BEEEEEEEEP BEEEEEEP" behind me
 
user559633
A $350 axe to place on your wall for decoration in an area where the closest tree you're allowed to cut down is a 4 hour trip away
 
@tristan well...
that's their problem :D
I'd buy one to use
though I'd probably settle for a Fiskars.
 
@tristan you know you've made it when you can sell special edition axes, where the only difference is that the last 3cm of it was dipped in a different colour paint
 
hmm perhaps I should buy a hatchet. I currently don't own any.
 
user559633
@AnttiHaapala You'd buy an expensive, "hand painted" axe to use?
 
1:32 PM
:D
 
In reality it's the same as buying a Porsche in a country with 70mph speed limits - you're seduced by a capability that you will never use
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Yeah, the color dip on the end really shouts "i've split logs in my life before"
 
user559633
@RobertGrant Well, those are fun and shouty up to 70mph.
 
user559633
brb hanging an artisanal, color-dipped, hand-painted pipe-fitting wrench on my wall
 
1:33 PM
@randomhopeful Nice! And you might like this one: Egyptian-born Australian oud virtuoso Joseph Tawadros. As well as doing traditional material Joe branches out into various fusions with other musicians. The tracks I've heard from his most recent album are quite jazzy.
 
Yeah that is true, although one joined a motorway next to me yesterday and it wasn't even loud as it zipped up to me doing 70 in no time
It's like telling Olympic 100m sprinters that they can't accelerate after the first 30m
(It's going to turn out that they don't accelerate after that, or something. First 5m, then.)
@WayneWerner thanks; that's cool
 
user559633
I mean, you don't buy an AMG biturbo v8 because it's a pragmatic choice
 
No, true, but I bet you get way more benefit out of it on an Autobahn than on a UK road
 
Is there a way to see changes/bug fixes made between versions of Python? I'm getting slightly different results between 3.4 and 3.5.
Specifically with decimal.
 
@JRichardSnape You should also check out Joseph Tawadros's music. I think you'll love it.
 
1:39 PM
(Links to a changelog)
 
Huh, it doesn't mention anything.
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp Maybe something leading up to decimal? Can you easily mcve?
 
Yeah, give me a sec.
I don't have 3.4 installed, but this works in 3.5 for me, but the sum is high by .01 in 3.4
import decimal

decimal.getcontext().prec = 7

amounts = ['304.16', '329.20', '2006.48', '401.06', '1087.92', ]
print(sum(map(decimal.Decimal, amounts)))
Our server has 3.4
 
5th cup of espresso today, I am slowly beginning to ascend to a higher state of mind
 
user559633
Python 3.4.3 (default, May  1 2015, 19:14:18)
[GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 6.1.0 (clang-602.0.49)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import decimal
>>> decimal.getcontext().prec = 7
>>> amounts = ['304.16', '329.20', '2006.48', '401.06', '1087.92', ]
>>> print(sum(map(decimal.Decimal, amounts)))
4128.82
 
1:43 PM
Huh.
 
user559633
chat so frustrating
 
AttributeError

can't set attribute
nice
        setattr(task, k, v)
bug in production and I get this wonderful, useful message into sentry logs.
 
user559633
I think your server is trying to funnel money to terrorism, @MorganThrapp
 
@tristan Probably.
 
user559633
Wait, high by .01. Pretend this joke makes sense, plz/thnx
 
1:44 PM
It is NACHA, so they're basically a terrorist organization. Based on how much stress they've caused me.
 
user6568562
@PM2Ring I never heard of him before. I listened to Peace for My Father and now Street in Sarajevo. It's impressive how he's comfortable with his instrument. I dig it a lot [ :
 
tristan:
>>> 304.16+329.20+2006.48+401.06+1087.92
4128.82
Not sure I understand
 
user559633
@holdenweb just copy pasting Morgan's code to a 3.4.3 install.
 
Yeah, that's the right sum. On our server, it's summing to 4128.83
 
1:46 PM
Ah, right
 
And I'm trying to figure out what the frack is going on.
 
I wager one point five quatloos on "cruel prank"
 
user559633
Also tested on
3.4.0
3.4.1
3.4.2
 
Also works in 3.5.1 on my Ubuntu system:

In [1]: import decimal
In [2]: >>> amounts = ['304.16', '329.20', '2006.48', '401.06', '1087.92', ]
In [3]: >>> print(sum(map(decimal.Decimal, amounts)))
4128.82
 
@randomhopeful Cool! In interviews, Joe's a really easy-going, humble guy. Before he became successful he'd go to local markets selling cassettes of his work. FWIW, his brother James often plays drums & other percussion with Joe.
 
1:50 PM
@MorganThrapp What's your exact sys version?
 
I also get 4128.82 on Python 3.6.0a0. And mpmath confirms that's the correct value.
 
user559633
I'd say punt this to your sysadmin :)
 
@corvid I like the 100 cups of coffee Futurama episode
 
Turns out I'm just an idiot. I forgot to push the version where I was setting the precision to our server.
With the higher precision, it was rounding wrong.
With the correct precision, it all works.
False alarm. :P
 
@corvid I missed that :)
 
1:52 PM
guys, wget works when running normally but fails when running inside a celery worker
any ideas?
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/wget.py", line 337, in get_console_width
    ioctl(sys.stdout.fileno(), TIOCGWINSZ, winsize)
AttributeError: 'LoggingProxy' object has no attribute 'fileno'
 
user6568562
@PM2Ring Yeah I'm listening to a track with his brother and Christian McBride, a cool bass player guy I also like a lot. I think I'm gonna spend quite some time listening to his work
 
Aaah :)
 
Though, I would like to rant about the fact that using too precise of a decimal broke something. Seriously?
 
@MorganThrapp :slaps Morgan with a wet fish:
 
1:54 PM
I thought the whole point of decimal was to stop these types of issues.
 
user5077886
hi all, cbg
 
@khajvah celery replaces your stdout with some crappy logging wrapper
 
FWIW, using "raw" floats, the exact sum is 4128.82000000000010686562745831906795501708984375
mp.dps = 100
amounts = [304.16, 329.20, 2006.48, 401.06, 1087.92, ]
print(mp.fsum(amounts))
 
@AnttiHaapala that's a shame. So I am basically stuck
 
You mean the "exact" sum.
 
1:59 PM
well, i'd say that wget is also sh*t
why does it assume sys.stdout is even open at all.
 
lol
 
user559633
@Ciitk34 hey! how are you?
 
yeah it's weird
 
@khajvah I just fixed a bug with celery
my opinion is that shit(celery) >> 0
could still be that shit(celery) > shit(wget.py)
 
not sure if this is a bug
 
user559633
2:01 PM
bitshift your shit() method on a celery argument onto 0?
 
I might "fix" it though
 
user5077886
@tristan i'm good. thanks!!
 
Morning, also what-did-I-just-walk-into
 
user559633
Bad things man, bad things
 
Hey, Marcus.
 
2:02 PM
@holdenweb Something like that. :) It's the exact sum of what those numbers become when you convert them to IEEE 754 binary 64 bit doubles and then convert those into mpmath numbers with 100 decimal digits of precision.
 
cbg-noon
 
user5077886
a quick question. i am working on python and using a regex to search a word if it appears in the first sentence of the text. here it is - re.search(r'(^!Series_.*?\s"[^\.]*?%s\s)' %gs1, s1, re.I|re.S). I now wish that it searches only the first 7 words (if the text is >7 words). what would be a good way?
 
I'd give up on using regex entirely and do some list munging. Something like:
>>> sentence = "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts, here they are standing in a row"
>>> words = sentence.split()
>>> "bunch" in words[:7]
True
Depending on your use case, it may be wise to get an NLP library to do the word-extraction part. split is a brittle approach; note that my code fails to deal with punctuation.
>>> "coconuts" in words[:7]
False
 
@Ciitk34 ^as kevin said.
 
user5077886
@Kevin, thanks a lot. but i thought doing by regex meant improving my basics, so i liked it. and as you said these punctuations, special characters - all are elegant with regex
 
2:09 PM
you'd use the regular expression maximally to tokenize your words
@Ciitk34 there is no good way.
what you need to do is a regular expression that matches 0 to 6 words
 
user5077886
right
 
that is, ^\W*(?:\w+\W+){0,6}Something\b
 
regex may not be enough if you're just going after raw punctuation or non-spaces, e.g. "This party is suit-and-tie only," or "We live in the U.S.A." or "He once asked me, 'Hey, what's the deal with end tables?'"
how you define a sentence or how you count words may not be straightforward
 
Yeah, what is the deal with end tables?
 
@Ciitk34 this is soon not clear at all.
 
2:12 PM
@AnttiHaapala I disabled the progress bar of wget and it worked :D
 
user5077886
@AnttiHaapala thanks a lot! am a beginner with regex. and the Something would be my regex, right?
 
user5077886
i got it, it would be my search word. thanks!
 
@Ciitk34 this is not the professional way to do it
this is the "I've got only a hammer" way to do it.
 
user5077886
so the professional way would be split() ?
 
2:16 PM
no
the professional way is to tokenize the words into a list using a regular expression
then when you have a list of words, you can see if your desired word is among the seven first
 
Also depends on how long the source text is -- you may not want to process the entire thing if it's on the large side
 
user5077886
what is the difference?
 
But if you're a beginner with regexes and just experimenting you certainly have some new ideas to play with
 
@Ciitk34 read the book: nltk.org/book
 
Anyone ever try pythonchallenge.com ?
 
user5077886
2:18 PM
ok, so sequential regex mapping is worse than tokenization?
 
yes.
@Ciitk34 at easiest if you don't want to read anything, you can use
 
Did the challenge a lo-o-o-ong time ago
 
words = re.findall('\w+'), though this won't properly get 7-part-hyphened-word-with-a-number
but it is a good start
 
Hi, I'm using sh packpage and I'm clonning repository and then changing branch, but commands are executed but it acts like it wasn't
 
user5077886
no i definitely will read the nltk book, although its a bit long and not all parts may be imp for me. but i would definitely try to search why tokenization is better. thanks!
 
2:20 PM
@MarcusS I've done some of it, can't remember if I finished it :D
@holdenweb how many steps there were...
@MarcusS I think it was like at night did couple, and "will continue in the morning", and remembered it again right now
 
TFW you get a fixed record flat file, and a docx containing the file layout -_-
 
hey guys. im getting this error. any ideas??
  for item, support in sorted(f_itemset.items(), key=lambda (item, support): support):
                                                              ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
 
I got through like 20 pages of the Python Challenge but I stopped because I felt like it was testing my ability to guess the author's thought process, rather than testing my ability to write Python code.
 
using python3
 
@MarcusS No, but now looking...
 
2:23 PM
@Ming That syntax is only valid in 2.7 and below, IIRC
parenthesized arguments for lambdas was taken out of 3.x
 
Unpacking in signatures was removed for all functions, not just for lambdas.
 
You could do key= lambda foo: foo[1] but it's not as descriptive IMO.
 
Hmm, pythonchallenge seems very similar to another of these kind of websites I once had a go at.
 
@Kevin thanks. that worked :)
 
Oh, and you could use operator.itemgetter if you don't want to write the lambda yourself
@davidism Oh yeah. I forgot that regular defs ever had that functionality.
 
2:27 PM
im quite new to key=lambda. havent been using much of it. will check out operator.itemgetter thanks for the help
 
It was cool, especially since you could nest the unpacking, but I understand why they removed it.
 
I remember being annoyed about its removal at the time, but it doesn't come up too much, really
 
> While an informal poll of the handful of Python programmers I know personally and from the PyCon 2007 sprint indicates a huge majority of people do not know of this feature and the rest just do not use it,
Accurate. Citation: "I forgot that regular defs ever had that functionality"
 
Yeah, I had no idea that was ever a thing.
 
2:35 PM
What's the difference between os.system('ls') and call from subprocess?
 
Meanwhile JavaScript added that and went further with object parameter unpacking as well.
 
You know, I have no idea what the difference is. I constantly hear "subprocess is preferable" but I never hear any justification
 
Bacause I've tried to execute command with subprocess and it didn't work
 
"didn't work", eh? I know just what the problem is! ;)
 
That's why asking
 
2:39 PM
"it doesn't work" is not valid context for a question about the difference between the two
 
Has anyone here deployed a flask app to heroku where it uses a setup.py file and something to build the front end?
 
@VeeeneX Do you want to be able to grab the output of the command in your Python script & process it? Sorry, os.system won't give you that. It prints the output to stdout, all your script sees is the return code.
 
@VeeeneX I've noticed you've been asking questions here a while now, please start putting a little more effort in.
 
Yes, sorry
 
did you try tracing both calls, reading the docs about them, looking at the code behind it to understand what the difference could be?
 
2:40 PM
maaaan I got hand lotion all over my laptop
 
and cbg all
 
umm...and no, it's not what you think
 
status = os.system("mycmd" + " myarg")
# becomes
status = subprocess.call("mycmd" + " myarg", shell=True)
 
@AndrasDeak using hand lotion in front of his laptop on the internet.
ok :)
 
The shell flag may or may not be required. I just tried dir on my own machine and I did need it.
 
2:41 PM
OTOH, over at U&L, parsing the output of ls is considered a bad move; it's almost always better to use find.
 
@idjaw we're DIYing and I thought I'd moisturize my hand between two drillings, while lurking a bit and looking at the PEP davidism linked to:P
 
hahah
dude...that doesn't sound any better
but thank you for making me laugh this morning
:)
 
user5077886
@AnttiHaapala, i am trying to go through the NLTK book and they have starting tokenizing the string and doing regex matches on the list elements, rather than sequential regex matching in the whole string. But I still don't understand why the former is better than the latter. could you clarify?
 
off I go again to use my tool
 
2:44 PM
:D
 
nwp
My script fails an assert, causing python to print a traceback. That traceback interleaves with the regular output of the program, making both the traceback and the output unreadable. I tried putting sys.stdout.flush() and sys.stderr.flush() before the failing assert, but it didn't help. Any advice?
 
It's not completely clear to me what the shell flag does. The docs say "the specified command will be executed through the shell" but I don't quite get what that means. Like, cmd is a shell, right? But when I do shell=True, I don't see a command window pop up and execute my command. If it's spawning an invisible command window, how is that any different from doing shell=False?
 
@Kevin whether it spawns a new subshell? (only guessing, as usual. I don't know why I keep doing this)
 
@nwp pipe stdout and stderr to different files?
 
@Kevin what makes you assume that shells only run interactively? Do you get a second command window when you run a subshell?
 
2:46 PM
Hey @idjaw You'd probably enjoy Joe's music too.
1 hour ago, by PM 2Ring
@randomhopeful Nice! And you might like this one: Egyptian-born Australian oud virtuoso Joseph Tawadros. As well as doing traditional material Joe branches out into various fusions with other musicians. The tracks I've heard from his most recent album are quite jazzy.
 
I don't know what a subshell is, so...
(holdenweb used Socratic Method! It's not very effective.)
 
@Kevin it will literally be interpreted by the user's shell (cmd on windows, bash/something else on others), as opposed to starting a subprocess using the operating system
 
\o/
 
@Kevin it's running os.execve(["/bin/sh", "-c", "your command there"]) instead of running os.execve(['your', 'command', 'there']) with shell=True
 
nwp
@davidism that works... I don't know why I didn't think of that. Thanks.
 
2:47 PM
When shell=True the command is passed as s single argument to sh -c. With shell=False the command should be a list of arguments, and will be passed directly to exec
 
@PM2Ring oh. Spot on. Definitely up my alley. Thank you for the share.
 
Usually, you don't want shell=True
 
which has some side effects such as loading the .bashrc, etc.
 
@idjaw My pleasure!
 
(using shell=True)
 
I suspect I've got something like map-territory confusion where I conflate the tool used to access a thing (cmd) with the thing itself (whatever the name is for the thing that cmd sends its commands to)
 
@Kevin cmd is not a shell, it's a terminal
it runs a shell
which name escapes me for windows, right now
 
I'm no better than the people that say "help I've accidentally deleted the Internet" when they delete their shortcut to IE.
 
So as you can see same commands different status
 
so you have cmd, the terminal, the window, and in it, you run a shell program, in which you can type commands
 
nwp
2:49 PM
@Kevin at least they cannot ask here
(because deleted)
 
@PM2Ring Oh my. This is wondertastic -> youtube.com/watch?v=8VbvL08Q4cc
 
Ok, now there's a shell and a terminal and the mysterious unnamed thing interacted with by both of them. My confusion has grown 50%.
 
shell=True is handy if you need to run a pipeline of commands. And I guess you could use it to run a command that's built-in to the shell (which is a kinda weird thing to do, but hey :) ).
 
@idjaw Yeah. :) There's a whole bunch of free-to-listen high quality music on Joe's site...
 
2:52 PM
quick lunch cbg
 

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