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user6568562
1:00 PM
@AndrasDeak A large amount of chat discussions and SO questions. Also my understanding of code flow however little it may be
 
it also needs to be in the format expected by the pandas.read_json
 
Frequency of problem on SO = difficulty of underlying technology * popularity of technology
 
JSON's like the opposite of perl. It's human-readable but not human-writable (unless you have particularly nimble right ring and pinky fingers)
 
Hey @khajvah I saw an SO user a couple of hours ago with their user name in Armenian script. But I can't find them in my history.
 
@randomhopeful what if you decide to become a data scientist?:P
 
1:01 PM
@PM2Ring lemme guess, PHP or JavaScript?
those are booming in here
 
Those are booming in a lot of places
 
Javascript yes but I though PHP was declining
 
user6568562
@kevin @AnttiHaapala so json isn't an ogre that feeds on the weak and unworthy. Nice to know :D
 
We can hope
I mean, uh, PHP is fine. Perfectly fine.
 
@khajvah Given my avatar on github it would appear we are a natural fit, but I wouldn't read too much into it :)
 
1:03 PM
Declining because people aren't having trouble with it anymore, haha! Yes!
 
:D
 
user6568562
So cute man
 
@khajvah I'm pretty sure it was a Python question.
 
@holdenweb awwww:D
 
1:05 PM
I heard from many HR guys from here that they are unable to find Python programmers
 
Taken at the confluence of the Yellow River and the Black River, where the Amazon begins. All in all a pretty amazing place - spent three days near Manaus while on a speaking trip
 
not many in this room have seen that side of Amazon, I'd wager
 
@PM2Ring \o/ hammer hammer!
 
@khajvah Found it. It was a regex question: stackoverflow.com/users/1886376/…
 
this repo is really weird
@PM2Ring yup python
 
1:09 PM
@idjaw We're getting good mileage out of that one: 37 links, so far.
 
@PM2Ring :) That's pretty awesome. It really happens more often than I originally thought!
@khajvah I swear I thought it was a joke until I started scrolling, and the scrolling didn't stop, and it got more serious, and then...wait..this is for real.
 
Morning cabbage.
 
MORGAN!
 
I want to ask the assembly room about a problem I have, but first I need to enable shared copy-paste on virtualbox, but first I have to ask how in the Linux stack exchange, but first I have to sign up for the Linux stack exchange... I'm hoping my maximum XY problem depth won't grow any larger than 4 today.
5
 
@idjaw lol working for a specific company becomes a goal
 
user6568562
1:11 PM
Eyy Morgan ! How've you been man ?
 
Pretty good, crazy busy since I'm moving to a new team at work.
 
@idjaw And I'm sure there are quite a few others with the same problem that the room regulars don't catch. But hopefully your canonical has enough momentum now that other dupe target hunters can find it easily.
 
Which means doing C# instead of Python. :/
 
If you haven't seen the Amazon its scale is beyond belief. It's formed at the joining of the aforesaid two rivers. We went down the Black River towards the Meeting of the Waters and under a suspension bridge 3.6 km long. And that was one of the two rivers that join ...
 
@PM2Ring Yeah, there were some edits done by others to add more keywords to it that will hopefully help it climb up the search results.
 
1:13 PM
Hey, C# is nice.
Well, the language anyway. I've only seen the game dev side of the ecosystem
 
I actually enjoyed my time with C# when I was doing it
 
@KevinMGranger do you have to use windows?
that's the worst part of C#
 
user6568562
@MorganThrapp It's ok man. You'll be like a deep infiltration agent. Like Pythonic Homeland's Quinn in Microsoft territory
 
Yeah, I'm enjoying C#. I definitely miss some things from Python, but if I have to use another language, this would be my pick.
 
@khajvah for Unity dev, yes, although they're working on a Linux editor. When I was in school all game dev was done on windows.
 
1:15 PM
Well Im excited that after the first semester of only pascal at my uni we will get to use C#
 
oh god
 
Windows itself is meh, but Visual Studio is so, so, nice for C#. You mash tab and it writes your program for you.
 
C# has made some surprising nods towards becoming a dynamic language environment
 
why do they still teach pascal
 
HAHAHAHA
I don't know
 
1:15 PM
Yeah, dynamic and var are pretty nice.
 
It's the Czech Republic
 
It's got dynamic objects, that's basically half of python
Ugh, Kevin'd
 
In University it was C++ for my two programming classes and then java was used as the reference language when showing code samples in other classes, like Operating Systems, Software Process.
 
I'm starting to understand the benefits of compile time type safety. hides.
 
So is python, have you seen mypy? :P
 
1:16 PM
I think we should thank Jim Hugunin for his contributions to the DLR that the C# team couldn't resist using
 
Czech out this post, read through the comments and you'll understand
 
XY problem depth reduced back down to 2. I found out how to enable copy-paste without having to ask in chat, thanks to the renewed RTFM motivation I found, fueled by my fear of talking to strangers.
 
Yeah, mypy is promising - and I love the way it's decoupled from the interpreter
 
If you think compile time safety is cool, you need to check out rust :D
 
I didn't like Rust
 
1:18 PM
@KevinMGranger I really like rust. I'd love to do some embedded work in it.
 
@khajvah Ok, it's a bit antiquated, being pre-OOP, but it's a neat little language, and it teaches you good habits because it was primarily designed as a teaching language. In its day, it was much better than Basic as a first language. And if I had to choose between teaching C or Pascal as a first language Pascal would win hands down as being easier to teach and to learn.
 
Once I finish my ergodox, I want to write the firmware for it in rust. The most popular one right now is in C and that won't do.
 
Though I'd need sit down with someone who knows the language for a couple hours first, because it took me like a day to compile a hello world. :P
 
Are there any compiled languages that have an eval function?
 
Certain lisps, I'd bet
 
1:19 PM
@Kevin C#
 
Kevin sorcery.....*looks at Kevin M suspiciously*
 
@Kevin That'd be pretty hard to do unless you can guarantee that a compiler (or an interpreter) is present in the runtime environment.
 
@PM2Ring I agree that C is not a good first language but why not teach something that can be useful in future
like Python or Java
 
@MorganThrapp technically true. The best kind of true.
 
@MorganThrapp doesn't the book start with a simple hello world? Or did you have issues with toolchain setup
 
1:21 PM
Bobby G in da house
 
That was my issue the first time around
 
@PM2Ring Yeah, that's what I figured. Just wanted to double check in case compiler writers are a hundred times cleverer than I am. Which is the case 99% of the time.
 
@Kevin haskell
 
@KevinMGranger It wasn't exactly Hello World, I was trying to do something slightly different, though I forget what now.
 
docker users -> there is a yaml vs yml discussion going on for docker-compose files. Anyone know if there is official word on one being preferred (or officially preferred) to the other?
 
1:23 PM
Haskell and lisp I mentally categorize as "easy for computers to parse" due to their unusual syntax. Not like your typical curly-braces-and-semicolons language.
So it makes sense that they could cheaply bundle a little compiler inside their programs or whatever.
I assume C# is cheating somehow.
 
It must be easy to parse, that's why GHC is 113MB
@MorganThrapp probably the first steps with lifetimes, those will always get you. My first experience was using a nightly where the borrow checker broke :(
 
yeah demo effect :D
 
@khajvah As much as I love Python, I imagine that it can be hard for those who start on Python to migrate to languages that use a more traditional data model (Other languages have "variables", Python has "names").
 
guy is demoing let's encrypt, the whole infrastructure is down and throws 500 errors
 
and pointers
 
1:25 PM
@KevinMGranger 1 kilobyte for parsing, 112.99 MB for savage optimizations on the abstract syntax tree.
 
I can never find this image, but there's a picture of a pickup truck with "haskell" over it being overloaded by a giant camper on the back that says "ghc"
 
nvm
 
@AnttiHaapala I blame no Python 3 support
 
@khajvah I don't know Java, so I'm not really in a position to comment, but I understand that you need to know quite a few libraries to get much done in Java. That could be rather overwhelming to a beginner, and having to learn about a whole bunch of libraries is a distraction from the task of mastering the basics of programming.
 
user559633
@Kevin just take a screenshot of a bounded region on your display and parse it with opencv. don't overcomplicate things.
 
1:29 PM
@PM2Ring lol I don't remember when was the last time that I argues about the best first language but I remember that I couldn't even decide for myself
 
In plan 9, you'd just network-mount the host os's windowing system's clipboard buffer file and write to it...
I'm not actually sure if that's how it would work, but in my mind it is
 
@tristan bonus points if it then posts the result to SO as a question
 
user559633
Well obviously he'd automate posting it and use NLP to determine if someone posted an answer that should be a comment
 
For pandas questions, is the dataframe tag useful? Or should it ultimately always be just pandas?
 
I was thinking of writing a little Python script to automate the building & linking & running & echoing return code of the assembly programs I'm writing. I should add an "if build fails: post error to SO" conditional in there.
 
1:32 PM
why are you writing assembly?
 
Does make not cut it for you?
Oh @Kevin mind sharing your steam name? Only 1 other steam friend of mine has TIS-100 and I need at least 2 people with higher scores than me, so I can feel more inadequate.
 
I have never understood how to use make, ever since my C++ days.
 
user559633
<tab>Make is great!
 
@KevinMGranger It's magicalblender, but I haven't figured out how to approve friend requests yet.
 
Well worth getting a good understanding of make
 
1:35 PM
It doesn't help that Valve can't decide what should be in the Steam UI and what should be in the browser
 
I've had a pending request for a year, but every time I click on it it says "ok, great, just a few steps to make a social account..." and I get distracted because the last thing I want to do when I open up steam is fill out three pages of forms
 
user559633
@Kevin even though you're just being polite by pretending you don't know how, you go to the chat/friends list, and then it will be near the top
 
Oh you don't play bureaucracy simulator?
 
Steam. I already have an account. Why do you want me to make an account when I have an account.
 
user559633
i'm pretty sure kevin just have facebook open with a post-it note in the corner over the logo that says "STEAM"
 
1:36 PM
It's okay if you want to keep your SO chat and gaming worlds separate. I don't need you all judging me for how much I play
 
user559633
@KevinMGranger you've seen the spreadsheet mapping of SO to steam, no?
 
I have not
 
user559633
@KevinMGranger
 
I was expecting a rickroll tbh
 
user559633
nah, i'm all about nyan cat again
 
1:39 PM
If you're incredulous that I can't do something as simple as enable friend-having-ness in Steam, you only need to review my posting history to confirm that, yes, my standards for what are "simple" and "complicated" are rather orthogonal to the standards of a normal human.
 
This is technically a reverse-doxxing on my part, I trust you all. I want you to know that
 
user559633
yes yes, we get it, you fit in well here :)
 
woah woah woah rowen lemmings 800 hours on rocket league and Oregon citizen. My kind of man
 
> from __future__ import print_function
lol
 
user559633
from __future__ import nerdcop
 
user559633
1:45 PM
Put the cryptocash in the bag and your laser blaster on the floor, haxxor!
 
@holdenweb it has its place though
deployments are where it comes short, for example
(the touch $@ hack is... a hack, really)
 
Ok, XY problem depth down to 1.
> We have normality. I repeat, we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem.
 
user6568562
I shouldn't be this excited about going alone to a bar to drink and read about Python this much. But I goddamn am!
 
@khajvah Try this one: from __future__ import braces
 
user559633
@randomhopeful laptop or book?
 
user559633
1:49 PM
i have fond memories of sitting by a window, having a drink in late afternoon, and reading
 
@PM2Ring damn
 
user559633
Parser.pp.parseMaybeAssign i think js is just fucking with me at this point. i don't think writing webapps requires a firm grasp on uncertainty principles
 
user6568562
@tristan Laptop ! Curiously, I get less distracted when I have Acrobat open than reading from a book. And that's exactly the plan :P
 
Maybe is cool in Haskell
 
wavefunction parseMaybeAssign() { /* ... */ }
 
1:51 PM
Aaand question posted in the assembly room. Now to wait for someone to come in and read it.
 
user559633
@randomhopeful Datastructure and Algorithms in Python, no?
 
@FlorianMargaine wouldn't necessarily want to use make for deployment, but it sure helps with build
 
user6568562
@tristan Yayah ! Also another textbook, free published, teaching Python and EBNF adult style.
 
@khajvah Because I'm interested in the art of making programming languages, and you can't write a compiler unless you know machine code.
Well, I guess you could compile to C or something, but that's no fun.
 
user559633
@randomhopeful Oh cool, that's some serious reading.
 
1:54 PM
We have a proprietary language for one of our products, and I'm gradually writing a compiler (transpiler?) that converts it to valid Python
 
user559633
^ Same, but a transpiler from how I think things work to valid JavaScript
 
Going surprisingly well
Although I haven't tackled the fiddliest stuff yet
 
user6568562
@tristan Surprisingly it's lighter to digest than learn X in a second
 
Well, if you're going to compile to native code, you should understand how assembly works. And if you're going to compile to bytecode for a VM, you should get how that VM works
 
1:57 PM
I considered making a KevinScript-to-Python compiler, but it wouldn't be challenging in the specific kind of way I want it to be challenging. Does that make sense? It's like how solving a cryptogram is qualitatively different from solving a crossword puzzle
 
Uh oh. By induction, I should stop what I'm doing to learn how Python works.
 
DSM
Morning cabbage.
 
user559633
@randomhopeful Yeah, I find that unless really well executed (e.g. Bjarne Stroustrup can do dry/funny/informative), a more familiar tone is actually harder to read.
 
Ah whatever. I'll just make the tests pass!
@tristan _why's stuff got like that for me
 
@Kevin That wait time will be better than me when I tried to post a question in a pascal chat room
 
user559633
1:58 PM
@RobertGrant hard to read? i never read his stuff. say from a distance that i wasn't the audience, like xkcd
 
I read about four chapters of _why's guide and, while I had fun, I did not actually learn any Ruby.
 
@KevinMGranger and then write a different one for each OS
 
Well, just too many metaphors and quips to actually see what's going on
 
LLVM seems to be the best option
 
user6568562
@tristan Exactly ! Couldn't explain it better
 
user559633
2:00 PM
Well, you know what they say about bad metaphors: they're like a dog with a banana
6
 
howdy i have a question about ssh authentication
i know this is a python chat
but hoping maybe someone could help
 
user559633
@theamateurdataanalyst Sweet, you answered your own question.
 
user559633
Maybe serverfault or superuser? In any case, you're right, not the right place to ask.
 
If you're doing ssh using Python, then we shouldn't have any problems ;-)
 
user559633
Yeah, obfuscate your problem, then ask again :P
 
2:02 PM
@Kevin os.system("ssh ...")
 
Expect my typo rate to be pretty high today. The virtual machine is eating up all my ram so I've been submitting my messages before their text appears in the text box.
 
user559633
There's another guy in this coffee shop with a post-it note over his laptop camera. The correct way to say "hi" is "hello sir i see you also have well-founded concerns about the ability of your camera's firmware to thwart state actors", right?
 
That's exactly how an agent of the state would win the trust of the opposition. Sounds sketchy to me.
 
Yes, but only communicate through a secure channel. Hand him your public key on a slip of paper, which you then eat once he's memorized it.
 
user559633
Yeah. Asking because we've made that "oh you have dead eyes and are typing quickly, you must be a programmer as well" eye contact
 
2:08 PM
Did you display your mating feathers (laptop stickers) properly?
 
user559633
@Kevin there are books here. i should probably make a quick dictionary cipher, you're right.
 
Just start spitting out raw packets on the wifi, they'll catch them if they're wiresharking which they are.
 
user559633
@KevinMGranger i only have a small sticker on my laptop. the dead giveaway is the sticky note on the camera
 
morning cabbage
 
Fork his repo as a challenge to his dominance. You don't want to start this off limp-wristed.
 
2:10 PM
I need to fix that too
 
user559633
@QuestionC rewrite his ruby repos in python to establish dominance
 
You could start off lisp-wrimted
 
@Kevin Just make sure you set sys.setmaxxylimitto a suitably large number
@KevinMGranger That's when all your wrimts look like parens
 
what's the reason they are making "webassembly"
 
user559633
@khajvah "not invented here, this year" syndrome
 
user559633
it's all over the place in webdev, i've found
 
unless webassembly means something I don't think it means
 
user559633
it's transpiling other languages to JS
 
Because people want an option other than JS for the web
 
Oh, well... that's definitely something different
 
user559633
2:16 PM
AFAIK: originally it was going to be a "okay, we're going to get a good language into web browsers" and now it's a "well, how about we just transpile stuff for JS virtual machines"
 
@KevinMGranger there are already a lot of languages that are compiled to JS
 
Yes, but people don't like targeting js. They want to target a "proper" VM language
 
user559633
Yeah, that would require Google and Microsoft to work together and agree on a reference implementation of a better language.
 
As long as Google sends the go people and Microsoft sends the C# people I'm fine with that.
Not that those two are reconcilable in any way
 
user559633
I think JS will eventually be an adequate language, especially for the web/webapps, so I'd be happy if they just decided on full ES6 by 2017.
 
2:19 PM
Though I guess it's still roughly the same thing
 
That's just the thing, though. It's adequate. If you can target webasm, then you could use any language, perhaps one that's better than adequate
 
user559633
2015. That's like the 1990 in backend timelines.
 
I don't care about targeting JS, I just care about writing Python syntax
 
user559633
I don't like the idea of transpiling for a web-browser only execution due to the annoyance of testing.
 
Yeah, but webasm is just weird. Compile high-level languages down into a subset of JavaScript that emulates a primitive computer. What could possibly go wrong?
 
2:22 PM
I think that will be one of the advantages of webassembly: a standard target for tooling
 
user559633
@KevinMGranger If it doesn't run in node or locally, then it's not really an improvement
 
I mean, in the long-term, increasing speed will render my objections senselss, but right now it really seems to me like a heavyweight approach
 
I think I just had a webasm AND NOW THAT'S HOW YOU'LL PRONOUNCE IT IN YOUR MINDS
 
It's coordination problems like this that make me wish we had a King of Technology who exists only to make everyone play nice.
 
Cabbage
 
2:23 PM
How close to V8 is node still? Couldn't node add webasm support?
Actually, crap, node is single-threaded. You couldn't use any of the webasm multithreading stuff
 
user559633
You'd still need "microsoft node" and "webkit node", etc
 
user559633
Hah yeah. The little event loop that (kinda) could
 
"Next year you're all going to support an orientation-invariant version of USB. Stop trying to phase out audio jacks. And no more JS frameworks, you're way over the quota"
 
Unless it's demonstrably slow, Javascript makes sense to use as the webasm language.
 
user559633
It makes sense because it's already there.
 
2:25 PM
Of course, what I mean is I will now pronounce it like that in my mind
 
It doesn't have any particular disadvantages either. What is assembly going to be more readable?
 
Yes, I understand the theoretical advantages, I'm just too much of an old fart to be able to ignore its inefficiencies, I suspect
 
user559633
@holdenweb I was careful to make the same criticism as Python VM powered by C
 
@holdenweb that's not webasm?
you're confusing with asm.js maybe?
webassembly is not a subset of JS, it's a bytecode language
 
user559633
afaik, webassembly is still changing in what it will be
 
2:28 PM
So it'll arrive alongside GNU HURD?
 
user559633
oh god
 
It's just replacing cryptic high-level intepreted code with cryptic low-level interpreted code. You don't need webasm. You need a really good interpreter that supports debug mode in your native language.
 
all ML enthusiasts,
now listening to talk about github.com/lext/PyCon2016
 
user559633
404 (works now)
 
Cute 404 tho
 
2:30 PM
handwritten digit recognition
lext, link should work now :P
slides there
 
user559633
i'm going to go back to being terrible at programming. have a good day everyone
3
 
Is there a cleaner way to do this? It feels really ugly. It's supposed to generate the next business day after a given delay. So, if it's run on Friday with a delay of 1, it should return Tuesday, because Monday is the next full business day and it skips that one.
def get_effective_entry_date(effective_entry_date):
    _date = datetime.datetime.today()
    if effective_entry_date < 2 and _date.isoweekday() in WEEKEND + [5]:
        effective_entry_date = 2
    # We have to delay for at least one day
    for _ in range(effective_entry_date if effective_entry_date > 0 else 1):
        _date += datetime.timedelta(days=1)
        while (_date.isoweekday() in WEEKEND) or (_date.date() in HOLIDAYS):
            _date += datetime.timedelta(days=1)
	return _date
WEEKEND is [6, 7] and HOLIDAYS is a module that returns US banking holidays.
 
I've done that before when I just have a generator that returns next_working_day, then you call it the right number of times
 
That return _date is overindented and the edit window is past. :(
 
2:42 PM
Although it was a more complex requirement than yours, so might be overkill
 
@RobertGrant Yeah, I thought about doing that. It feels a little like overkill, but maybe I'll just do that.
Honestly, I think if I could figure out a clean way to merge that if and the ternary in the range, I'd be okay with it.
 
I don't understand what the first if statement is doing.
If effective_entry_date = 1 and it's a friday won't the loop just skip both weekends?
 
@QuestionC Yeah, but it will return Monday, but it should return Tuesday.
 
So effective_entry_date is measured in working days?
 
Yeah.
 
2:49 PM
@MorganThrapp can't you just shift everything in that statement over by 1? range(-1, effective_entry_date)?
 
DSM
We're ignoring holidays, etc.?
 
@DSM (_date.date() in HOLIDAYS).
 
Oops. Ignore this. I thought you all were discussing about actual holidayz
 
DSM
.. wow, my senility is getting worse. There are multiple references to HOLIDAYS, there's an explanatory phrase "HOLIDAYS is a module that returns US banking holidays".. I don't know what Morgan would have had to do to get me to notice it..
 
@WayneWerner Wouldn't that create an extra day of delay for non-zero effective entry dates?
 
2:50 PM
I still don't really get the first if statement. Can you translate it to english?
Oh, [5] is friday?
 
I don't know, I was just asking ;)
 
@QuestionC Sure. "If it's Friday/Saturday/Sunday and we're supposed to delay less than two days, delay for two days".
 
You'd probably have to change the other logic, too? But again, not sure :P
 
@QuestionC Yeah.
@WayneWerner I would, which I think would end up being more of a pain. :P I just trained the other guy who does the client setup for this on how to do it.
 
welp, sounds like you made your bed ;)
 
2:53 PM
Yeah, pretty much.
 
I mean, the efficient(ish) way would be to build an index into the working days. So business 5 days after business_day[7] is business_day[12]. That doesn't work for all dates though because no infinite indexes.
How does HOLIDAYS work? Does it handle moving holidays like Easter?
Just a list I guess?
 
Yeah, that would be nice. I just question if the setup time to build the list of working dates is worth it.
@QuestionC It does, but I don't know how it does it. I'm using pypi.python.org/pypi/holidays
 
DSM
To me it feels like there should be a function is_business_day, and an iterable over future dates, and then you take the nth (call next a few times, or max an islice, or whatever.)
 
The code's gonna feel wrong unless you figure out how to invent julian_to_business_day
 
2:58 PM
Yeah, I really should just switch to a generator based method.
 
@PM2Ring those skillz though!
 
16 mins ago, by Robert Grant
I've done that before when I just have a generator that returns next_working_day, then you call it the right number of times
o_O
 
@BhargavRao We shouldn't laugh: the dude knows VB.NET, not to mention Pyhton and Bootsrapp.
 
DSM
3:01 PM
@RobertGrant: so first I misread Morgan and then I ignored you? .. I'm going to blame this cold.
 
serious possibility of accident at Helsinki airport on Friday about 1 hour before I did land there...
basically Finnair was allowed to taxi over a runway on which SAS was landing... they didn't taxi over it because they could see that a plane was landing...
 
Can holidays library (efficiently) just tell you the number of holidays in a date range? Then you advance the date by weeks(business_days % 5), pull the number of holidays in that date range, and advance again by the number of holidays you skipped.
 
but on Friday the clouds were very low! like hundreds of meters.
 
Kind of optimizing for the 32767 business days case here.
 
@QuestionC in 32767 business days we will all be dead.
 
3:04 PM
Today's google doodle is so much fun: google.com
 
DSM
@idjaw: I have to admit I played it quite a few times.. way more fun than it should be.
 
Only fun on touch devices though. It's so hard to do on the trackpad
 
@DSM :D
 
@idjaw Can ya edited that to .ca? google.ca
 
I was debating to do .com or .ca and I went with the .com
 
3:17 PM
I mentioned a while ago that I rediscovered a couple of dozen of my old science fiction paperbacks that my mother has had in storage for the last 40 years. The last day or so I've been reading Asimov's I, Robot. Boy, some of those early stories are pretty lame!
 
user559633
@idjaw businessinsider.com/… did you see this? century and lvl3 agglomerating
 
@PM2Ring when it was all we had it seemed unimaginably exciting. Fifty years later, of course, I feel robbed that my science fiction utopia has been morphed by commercial interests into the worst of Brave New World and 1984 combined.
 
user559633
One fewer AS out there and if AT&T/Time Warner goes through, wow.
 
They could opt to retain separate ASs in the interests of Internet partitioning
 
user559633
3:23 PM
And we're probably doomed to Clinton, and she's a puppet, it's a little scary to think what transit/raw bandwidth will look like in 8 years
 
Arguably more robust to have two independent intertwined networks than one, no?
 
user559633
Sure, they'll probably remain separate ASNs, but that's less competition
 
@holdenweb I was a huge Asimov fan in the 1970s. And I still like a lot of his stuff. But those early robot stories haven't aged well.
 
DSM
I think they still have a certain charm. They're pretty primitive, and Asimov was never that good a writer, but they gave me a childhood dream to be a roboticist..
 
user559633
And with Comcast getting away with putting a bandwidth cap on end-consumers, it looks like large telecoms have decided to begin their narrative/rationalization of price increases upstream.
 
3:28 PM
I've read quite a lot of early scifi in the last 5-10 years, including Campbell's Arcot, Morey and Wade series, E. E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman, Skylark, and Subspace Explorers series, everything on gutenberg.org by H Beam Piper, etc.
 
@tristan Wow....Anxious to see how that will affect Canada with an acquisition like that
 
user559633
@idjaw Yeah, alarm bells go off in my brain whenever tier 1 or 2s start merging. and klaxons when the tier 2s merging are also tier 1s.
 
DSM
I'm not sure I've ever read anything by Campbell. Only know him through the people he published or influenced.
 
@tristan Our telecom landscape is an utter mess to begin with. Curious to see how the other telecom goons react to this.
and holy crap...this is why adblock is helpful...Business Insider has 104 trackers according to ghostery
wth!
 
user559633
@idjaw I mean, Qwest + L3 merging leaves like, what, half a dozen remaining tier1?
 
wim
3:34 PM
 .-.
(o o) boo!
| O \
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  `~~~'
 
user559633
 
wim
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                _           __)_)__        .'`--`'.
                )\_      .-'._'-'_.'-.    /  ^  ^  \
             .'`---`'. .'.' /o\'/o\ '.'.  \ \/\/\/ /
            /  <> <>  \ : ._:  0  :_. : \  '------'       _J_
            |    A    |:   \\/\_/\//   : |     _/)_    .'`---`'.
            \  <\_/>  / :  :\/\_/\/:  : /   .'`----`'./.'0\ 0\  \
           _?_._`"`_.'`'-:__:__:__:__:-'   /.'<\   /> \:   o    |
happy halloween rm 6
 
@DSM Definitely read the Arcot, Morey and Wade series. They're on gutenberg.org. Of course they're a bit heavy-handed by modern standards, but if you read them in context they're great fun, a bit similar to the Doc Smith classics.
 
@wim Happy Halloween :)
 
@tristan Can't remember the exact number. But the fact that there is such a tight grip by an already small number, this is just not going to bode well for any consumer. yay?.....
 
DSM
3:45 PM
@PM2Ring: thanks, I'll add them to my retro-reading list!
 
user559633
3:58 PM
@idjaw yeah, seriously. why bother kicking the bee's of "net neutrality" when you can just offer the content providers slower/more expensive routes
 
user559633
I'm a little surprised that Amazon and Google haven't decided to get into the interconnection/upstream game, if not just for their own PTP purposes
 
Save us, King of Technology!
 
@tristan yep, which translates to ISP saying "Hey, look we aren't the real bad guys here...we have to pay this much, so the customer has to pay this much more. Deal with it"
@tristan Google is getting there, but imo a bit slower than I thought....or maybe it is on pace in the US and I'm not aware. But Canada is not (and honestly never seeing this happen any time soon) getting any of that goodness.
 
user559633
Well, for TW/AT&T, they're tier 1/tier 2, so their argument gets even more shallow (well, you have to pay more because one of our business units decided it should cost more)
 
user559633
I assume a toronto->montreal->nyc loop wouldn't be far-fetched
 
4:02 PM
you can cut montreal out of there....anything quebec related I imagine would be even more difficult than the rest of Canada.
 
user559633
Oh, are they still pretending they're not Canada?
 
@tristan You may like to read this HNQ: politics.stackexchange.com/questions/12812/…
 
@tristan <redacted>
:)
 
user559633
@PM2Ring Ooh, neat. Yeah, the way I see it, I'd be hanging by the neck or already cremated if I did the same as she did, so I don't know why she's even allowed to be running for top position at this point.
 
user559633
@idjaw I'll save it for beers
 
DSM
4:04 PM
@Kevin: pronunciation question which came up yesterday. Do you say floor-ida or (exaggerating for effect) flahr-ida?
 
@tristan hehe..we need to have some topics left to talk about in our eventual IRL meeting :P
 
Closer to flahr-ida, I'd say.
 
user559633
I say "floor-ida"
 
floor-ida
 
user559633
The hackers of the DNC deserve the nobel prize
 
4:06 PM
and wednesday is pronounced whens-day...if you say wedenezday...you need to rethink your life choices
 
Jersey is a melting pot of pronunciations, probably because of our adjacency to Philly & New York. Half of us make fun of the other half for pronouncing "wahter" as "wooder" or vice versa.
 
user559633
And worldwide and personal praise from anyone that believes in the moral high-ground of America
 
preach it!
 
user559633
Anyway, time to go grab lunch while my spirits are high
 
I have no particular allegiance, so Florida might have an o or an a sound depending on any number of factors, including atmospheric humidity and whether mars is in the seventh house.
 
user559633
4:07 PM
Later all :)
 
rbrb tristan
 
This also explains why I give a different answer every time I'm asked "how do you pronounce 'gif'?"
 
DSM
I heard someone yesterday (from Penn) have a conversation about this after he was called out for saying Flahrida, and got the advice to steer into it.
 
who says catsup here instead of ketchup?
 
4:13 PM
I say tomato blood
 
It's supposed to be kecsöp in Hungarian... it's a crime against humanity to write and say something like that
 
DSM
Up until now I've never said tomato blood, but will at the next opportunity.
 
~ketschöp in German
 
DSM
Unfortunately with the change in seasons the street hot dog vendors have closed shop. :-/
 
@DSM If I can chime in as a Floridian, I've always heard and said "Floor-Da".
"Florida Georgia" has to be a near rhyme because of college football.
 
4:19 PM
tomato blood has been added to my vocabulary
 
Let nobody say this room isn't educational
 
DSM
4:35 PM
Did anyone else just have a chat-unavailable issue?
 
rbrb
 
4:51 PM
@idjaw I say ketsuppi, except when speaking of ketjap (manis) :P.
@WayneWerner that's tomato ketchup.
 

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