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1:02 PM
@Scratte Well, the question wasn't evaluated based on anything like that. Someone just commented on my answer that they didn't think it was up to my standards, which seems perfectly reasonable to me. Also, they were right, it was a poor answer.
 
@mickmackusa depends entirely on the composition of the room at a given moment, I like your style of participation.
 
@cigien It might have been a decent answer but we don't know if it was what the asker was looking for. That's the problem with answering such questions; they should be closed, pending clarification; then, if it becomes clear that your answer does address the OP's issue, then you could (maybe) undelete it.
 
@AdrianMole Agreed. I assumed I knew what the OP wanted, when it really wasn't very clear. I'm not too optimistic about the OP responding in this case, but one never knows.
 
@cigien Honestly, I'd find that to be a little irritating if that was made on any of my posts. I'd properly even reply with "Sorry, I'll try to lower my overall quality of posts so you don't get confused."
 
1:13 PM
@Scratte It could be considered a compliment: Their answers are usually of a high standard and it's being noticed by people on SO.
 
@Scratte I see what you mean, though I like feedback when it's constructive. A fair amount of my SO answering skills, such as they are, are based on things like that. I guess I would be annoyed if the feedback was phrased rudely, but in that case I'd try to disengage. Leaving a snarky response can be enjoyable, but that joy is usually short lived, and the conversation becomes unproductive.
@JeanneDark Yeah, that too. The commenter in fact went out of their way to make that point, which was very nice of them.
 
@JeanneDark Possibly, but it still doesn't make it right in my opinion. To hold someone to a standard because one feels they are up to it is personal. It's the same as if I go out of my way to help someone and then they start expecting me to do so. It's counter-productive.
@cigien Yes. One comment is not a conversation though :)
 
@Scratte Would you prefer things the other way round? Like: This is an excellent answer! Far better than your normal rubbish. ;-P
 
@Scratte Not sure I agree with the comparison. The problem with expecting someone to always help would likely not be one comment but multiple comments (and there are even several strange feature requests on MSO about tagging or messaging specific users to answer questions).
 
@AdrianMole It goes both ways no? It's comparing the quality of a post to other posts by that same user. Instead of just looking at the post, no? :)
 
1:24 PM
@AdrianMole "I've read enough of your answers to not hold you to any standard anymore" ;)
 
@JeanneDark Yes, all those feature-requests are all declined.
 
@Scratte This becomes relevant if it influences voting (Like "I upvote this answer of yours not because it's good or even works, but because it's better than what you usually write.") or if the comment itself is against the guidelines (as detailed on the privileges page).
 
The issue is that one shouldn't imply a standard to a post based on the poster. Just look at it in isolation.
 
@Scratte I know what you mean and I'm not fundamentally disagreeing. However, regular posters in a given tag can 'get to know' each other and, as such, we (in C++) sometimes offer constructive (if humorous) comments. Seldom is any offence either intended or taken.
 
@JeanneDark Or "I downvoted this post because you usually do a better job".. To be honest, I'd prefer the downvote to a comment saying "You usually do better".
 
1:27 PM
Feature request: tiny down-votes?
 
The same exact post could be upvoted if it had been posted by a mediocre poster, no?
 
@Scratte Why? That comment = helpful flag ;)
 
@AdrianMole That has been feature-request'ed before :)
@JeanneDark I don't flag comments on my own posts. I find it to be too biased.
 
I don't flag comments on SO. But you stopped flagging at all, didn't you?
 
@JeanneDark Yes. I was being completely OCD before I stopped, having 3000 postflag, but only 29XX overall helpful ones, so I flagged comments to get the values to match :D
 
1:32 PM
Although there's no shortage of flag-worthy posts on SO. The only constraint is time (and 100 flags per day).
 
I really don't like close flags though. They're so slow in handling.
 
Not always. Depends on the title and tags a lot.
 
I've never flagged 100 posts in a day either. I keep track of them for several things.. 10 pending ones at any given time was a comfortable max.
 
I hit the max several times when I reviewed.
 
On average I have about 20 pending flags.
Sometimes I have 50 at the same time
 
1:34 PM
Flagging obvious off-topic posts is easy. Flagging a post that looks to be OK, but is really not, is time consuming and utterly useless.
 
@Scratte You can bring it up here
 
I think I reached the maximum 200 flags per day few times
 
@JeanneDark Those are my un-closed requests sitting in the graveyard still open.
 
@Dharman Is that the maximum for flags waiting for review? I had more than 100 when I was reviewing Triage and FP and LA.
 
No I meant 100 + 100. post and comment flags
 
1:37 PM
Ok
 
I don't think there is a maximum pending flags, although I don't think I ever had more than 100 pending at the same time
 
Question: If I flag something for closure and the close votes review queue decides it should stay open, will my flag be disputed or declined?
 
Mods are already sick of me flagging everything all the time
I think review queues can only dispute your flag
 
Thanks
 
Flagging comments is also easy. It's easy to find them. I could probably exhaust my 100 comment flags very quickly every day. I just don't really feel that it's necessary for me to get my helpful flag count up.
 
1:38 PM
@Dharman I'm sure I remember Cody saying they liked flags.
 
Wasn't that e_net4?
 
@Dharman No. The close vote queue can decline it, if the post comes out as "Leave Open", if I remember correctly. cc @JeanneDark
The Triage queue can only dispute it though, but I except JeanneDark to be well aware of that :)
 
Thanks! Yes, I know about Triage and that's one of the reasons I avoid it.
 
I don't mind disputed. I just post the request in here if it has no close votes, or see what happens in the queue.
 
@JeanneDark You impressively have no declines anywhere. Only a moderator can decline a flag. If a queue refuses it, it's merely disputed
 
1:42 PM
@Machavity Thanks! That's different on meta, though.
 
@Machavity Hmm.. I'm pretty sure there's a meta that says close flags can be declined in the close vote queue.
That's because @JeanneDark's only declined flag was changed to disputed! :D
 
@Scratte But Triage feels like a waste of time and flags. If it's disputed, you have to start all over again. FP is much better in this regard.
 
@Scratte By the community and not a diamond?
 
@Machavity Yes. Surely not by any moderator, since no moderator is involved in a "Leave Open" result.
@JeanneDark I avoid the queue due to the suspension risk.
 
I avoid the queue.
 
1:46 PM
@Scratte I don't fear suspensions (I guess I also review in a rather unique way). Currently, I only access LA from time to time to flag NAAs.
 
@Scratte And you're sure this is a decline, and not merely disputed?
 
What is the difference between disputed and declined flags? doesn't seem to be correct :O "Flagging to close a question will push the flag to the close review queue, and if the review is completed without any user casting a close vote the flag is declined." <-- No! It's not. Then it just sit there until the flag ages away.
@Machavity Trying to find another.. meta :)
 
Does Bhargav have a magic touch? It always seems to be he who deletes NAAs that are later reposted in (almost) exactly the same form.
 
Did you flag it for account deletion?
 
Here we go Declined unclear-flag, later post put on hold as offtopic "The flag was declined because 3 people voted to leave the question open from the close vote queue"
 
1:51 PM
@Dharman Nah. I'll leave that up to the mod(s) concerned with the multiple deletions.
 
They might not notice that this account should be deleted
 
@Dharman I handled it
 
That one looks a bit suspect, I'll agree. But others have appeared (to me, at least), to be simple misunderstandings. There was one a few days ago, where the poster had explicitly complained about "another user" (Bhargav) deleting their query, then reposting it. I left a comment and they eventually self-deleted and posted a question.
 
@AdrianMole Like this?
 
Most recent one is When are flags disputed, and when are they declined by review? with "The flag will be declined if three reviewers in the Close Votes queue mark a post as "Leave Open""
 
1:56 PM
@JeanneDark The "Magic Touch" again. Safe NAA flag, though. :-)
... maybe?
 
^ Not sure what's happening there.
 
@AdrianMole BR was a bit harsh when he converted it to comment...
 
It is a very poor answer. We usually delete such answers
 
2:02 PM
why do you think so.
it says exactly what command OP should use...
 
It's not a great answer, but it is an answer. I disagree with BR there
 
Yeah me to that's why I edited to fix...
 
Ok, it is an answer, but very poor.
It just says to use a function but does not explain how or why
 
@Machavity :) Normally you teach me stuff :) But I think it's more of "If close voters disagree with you" since a no-resolution just leaves the flag pending :)
 
@Dharman it says why, but yeah could use some more meat with an example... anyway it is what it is :)
 
Ron
2:10 PM
o/
 
Ron
Happy holidays, everyone.
 
Thanks U2!
 
I don't thing U2 had anything to do with creating the holidays
 
2:13 PM
Sunday **** Sunday...
 
and most of all this U2 - New Year's Day
 
@NathanOliver They help create beautiful days, don't they?
 
2:23 PM
@PetterFriberg That's almost like a regular's love song to SOCVR :D
 
@PetterFriberg I figured that was covered in "Arms entwined, the chosen few" and "Though torn in two. We can be one" :)
 
@Scratte A couple of years ago I flagged 100 comments in pages during Winter Bash just to see if there was a secret hat for it. ...no such luck.
 
@Machavity hardy har
 
2:31 PM
@mickmackusa lol! This year I deleted a lot of comments for the same reason. No hat :D
 
I guess you'd have more luck receiving a secret hat by upvoting 40 new contributors a day ;)
 
@JeanneDark There was one year where a hat saw given by deleting comments though :)
Winter Bash 2018 Hat list "It’s-a me!" by "delete 6 comments after owner edits post". Same in Winter Bash 2017 Hats. This the last one also has a "This Is Fine" earned by "delete 10 of your own comments posted in 2017 before the start of Winter Bash"
And that's how I ended up un-earning a badge that I now have :D
 
2:49 PM
Winter bash is a bit strange, isn't it? ;)
 
@Scratte Speaking of Mario Brothers, "It's-a me!" is Mario's hat.
 
@JeanneDark yes, we'd be better off without it :-)
 
@IanCampbell Ohh.. now I remember something about that :)
@JeanneDark It's awesome :D
 
But having users go and delete some of their own comments, that's no longer needed, isn't exactly a bad thing, is it?
 
2:53 PM
The thing I love most about the hats is the one that encourages people to join new communities. Cross-pollination brings so many positives to communities and users. It incentivizes network exploration.
 
@Scratte Unless you post comments only to delete them later to get a hat ;)
 
@mickmackusa I wish more people did that
@JeanneDark or worse, go find some rare comments of yours that aren't NLN and delete them anyway
 
Yes, some comments are worth keeping
 
I find joining a new community to be very humbling and re-educates me on what the Stack Exchange experience is like for low-reppers.
 
@JeanneDark The hat was earned only by deleting comments that were posted prior to the beginning of the Bash, so that was accounted for.
 
2:56 PM
@Scratte You could post them in anticipation of WB ;)
 
@mickmackusa mostly I get annoyed when some users on other sites don't grok the concept of SE sites as well because their site is tiny and tends to get treated more like a discussion forum than a proper Q&A site
 
@mickmackusa I don't need to join a new community to have that experience ;)
 
@TylerH I didn't delete those. But I did delete some highly tiny-voted ones that had become useless. Like telling someone to edit their Answer, that had been edited.
 
...and although I am privilege-limited, I can still bring my insights/scrutiny to improve content quality.
 
@Scratte So it incentivizes keeping obsolete comments until WB? ;)
 
2:58 PM
@JeanneDark I see what you're doing, but no.. that hat was only used that one year :)
And if people really post comments only in hopes to delete them and get a hat during Winter Bash, I think that's the least of the problems with such a user.
You could apply that to a lot of hats: Holding off posting Questions until Winter Bash and holding off posting Answers until Winter Bash.
 
@mickmackusa I totally agree, whenever I'm reading an Academia.SE post I see in hot network questions and click on a vote count to see the ups and downs and it doesn't work, I'm like, "why is this restriction necessary?"
2
 
I massively recalibrated a lot of my thinking/behavior after joining Joomla Stack Exchange. Many of my philosophies regarding posting, voting, member grooming (don't giggle), and content assessment were largely changed.
 
@IanCampbell It's not. (Well, it's an expensive operation, so it just limits the numbers of users doing it). You can get them by using a user script.
 
The 20 user scripts we're all running are probably more expensive. Don't tell The Company.
 
@IanCampbell it's abuse-prevention
they don't want someone writing a script to call it 10,000 times a second on every post on a page or even multiple pages
since it is a db call to show that information
 
3:03 PM
@IanCampbell Not sure. There's probably only a handful of users using all these scripts. Compared to all the users that would click on the vote score.
 
I have to admit, I miss being able to see deleted answers/pages when I am privilege-limited. That stings me the most. As a mod on JSE, I enjoy being able to modify my comments after 5 minutes (usually just fix typos that I missed).
 
But yes I agree it should be a lower rep threshold than 1000
like 125 or something
@mickmackusa Mostly on MSE is where I miss it
 
Hmm.. you can't call the API 10,000 times a second as a single user though :)
 
I feel like with MSE being what it is, they should set it so that if you have 10k anywhere on the network, you can see deleted content
 
I feel like if you've got enough rep to be downvoting, it's reasonable to have information about how other people feel about the post.
 
3:05 PM
@IanCampbell Yeah, so 125 makes sense
 
Why can't there be unlimited comment edits with an edit history like there are for chat messages?
 
I am digressing a bit, but I think gold hammer privileges should include a check that you have done n number of close vote reviews for the respective tag. So that sufficient awareness of close voting is assured.
 
What order of magnitude n were you thinking?
 
@TylerH I definitely agree.
 
@IanCampbell You can edit chat messages for a limited time only.
 
3:09 PM
probably 250 would be enough?
 
@JeanneDark I meant for all comments on the site.
 
@IanCampbell comments on the site aren't intended to last forever or be that important
but it's hard to know for sure without knowing when the features were thought up and implemented
it could be comments were implemented on the site before chat was created, and during development of chat they realized/figured out how to show revision history cheaply
and they never got around to adding it on the site
I do know mods can edit comments forever, but I don't know if they see a revision history
 
@IanCampbell Well, I would prefer 500 cvr's or I could agree with Tyler's 250, but some tags won't have enough posts. I am willing to negotiate on this. What do you think?
 
I think only DBAs can easily see comment revision history for comments on Q&A
@mickmackusa I don't think it should be tied to close reviews of that particular tag itself, just close reviews in general
 
Well, I have very little experience with my hammer, since I got it yesterday, but I think 500 would be fine.
 
3:12 PM
@IanCampbell Congrats :-)
 
@TylerH Thanks.
 
Would other review queues count? Or are you saying that someone has to close voted for "Opinion based" 250 times before being able to dupe hammer? Because I can see how that could go wrong.
 
It might encourage more reviews too, which is frequently a good thing.
 
@IanCampbell Or someone may just start at the front page and put a close vote on everything.. there's no penalty for it.
 
You're preaching to the converted. Sometimes I'm like, "LOOKS OK!?!"
 
3:16 PM
@TylerH I can confirm that mods can see comment edit histories -- so you can't be rude in a comment, then edit it away, then hope that mods won't be able to see it.
 
@Scratte Well, I believe the proposal was for close vote reviews, which have audits (unless you skip them)
 
@IanCampbell Or use a user script to see which ones are audit or to just skip them
 
That is indeed what I meant by "skip them"
 
@mickmackusa That's just nonsense. One can always hope ;)
@IanCampbell I see issues with enforcing things like this though. You can have a user that doesn't do reviews at all, but just goes and finds duplicates and only vote to close those. When they get a dupe hammer than suddenly they're required to go and get review suspended (since they never really were interested in what's off-topic..)
 
@AdrianMole Did you get Queen to work?
 
3:20 PM
@IanCampbell Nope. Did you? @Petter seems to be about just now - maybe a ping?
 
The Queen is dead. Long live the Queen
 
Nice honey.
 
Yes, he added me. But I've yet to make it actually work.
 
honestly if they don't all stand up in some giant hall and proclaim that when Queen Elizabeth II passes away I will be kind of disappointed
 
Maybe he ignored me cuz I accused the Beed of being mad?
 
3:22 PM
Distinct possibility
 
@TylerH In Scotland, she's Queen Elizabeth I.
 
@AdrianMole How about in Wales?
 
In Wales, Betty 2.
 
@AdrianMole So.. for you she's Queen Elizabeth 1½? :D
 
@AdrianMole Has Scotland seceded from the UK yet?
 
3:24 PM
The Act of Union (between Scotland and England) happened after the time of Elizabeth Tudor.
@TylerH No. But I think the UK may be seceding from Scotland.
 
Haha
 
didn't Scotland vote like 100% to remain?
Or wait was that Northern Ireland
 
Any risk that an NAA on this Answer will get declined?
 
@Scratte pretty good risk, yeah
 
That's unfortunate.. because it really is :(
 
3:26 PM
mods often don't pay close enough attention to flags that require more than an out-of-context glance
unfortunately
 
It also seems that there are only a few truly brave flaggers ;) I'm obviously not one of those.
 
@Scratte I agree with you, seems like a thanks. I am too chicken though.
Well, if it were score -1 you could just ask people to delete it.
 
The "thanks to @aniran mohammadpour" should trip us up to check if it's a thank-you comment.
 
We have a brave moderator. Hooray :)
 
If anything more or less subtle is going on, you can always custom flag, too.
 
3:32 PM
You're telling that to the outspoken paranoid flagger though :)
 
Or leave a comment. Either way, worst that can happen is a declined flag, and we don't charge extra for those. ;)
2
 
Worst is really really bad though :) It sets one back 1000 helpful ones for the elite flagger status..
 
@Scratte Do you use that script?
 
@JeanneDark I have it installed. I created a small java program to tell me about accuracy and how many helpful flags I need for any given declined flags. I know that I have a 0,01% uptick if I get another 31 helpful flags.
 
So why did you stop flagging?
 
3:37 PM
I needed a break.
 
I think you'd have more fun if you stopped caring about what at most 25 people (and maybe a couple of employees at The Company) can see. But I know I'm never going to convince you.
 
@IanCampbell I don't really care about what they can see :) It's a goal, like anything else here. There's no real meaning to it. Kind of like Winter Bash hats :)
 
@Scratte The tension? If it's obvious, there's little risk involved. If it's not totally obvious, you could leave a comment helpful to the OP ("Please take the [tour]...") and mods handling the flag (eg. mentioning it's not an answer but a question about the code in the [accepted answer] that they copied) and if it's really not obvious, just custom flag. I had no problems with it (undisclosed affiliation, plagiarism) and I don't think you will if you present the info you gathered.
 
People went out of their way to get a hat they could only wear for a couple of weeks, but it gave them a goal and a feeling that they accomplished something. Which is what is the real aim, no?
@JeanneDark I think I did leave a comment on that post though. But no, not so much the tension. The time spent on it.. the follow up and all that.
 
At least the obvious ones don't cost so much time. The chances that "I have the same problem! Did you find a solution?" is turned into a fantastic answer before the queue or a mod handles it, are rather slim I'd say ;)
 
3:45 PM
Not to mention everyone telling me that my goal is a non-goal and presenting it like I'm the only person that cares for a declined flag. Which is hilariously wrong and tragic at the same time. I guess I just needed to not flag anything for a while, and.. now not flagging has become a habit. I guess if the aim was for me to not care for the declined flags, and just flag more posts, it kind of backfired.
I can see my last flag was on "Nov 16 '20 at 20:26", but that was just a comment flag to get my numbers to match. My last actual flag was on "Nov 14 '20 at 16:03"
 
NLN comment flag has to be the lowest risk flag on the site. Ease back in with those?
 
I don't care much for non-post flags. They're not part of the goal :)
So red flags and comment flag for me is just to counter retracted/disputed/aged away post flags.
I also never felt like a key player in removing red stuff. It gets removed pretty quickly.
I realized that when trying to get the numbers to match. 1 minute late and a red flaggable post is already gone :) Which is like 90 second after it's posted by Smokey.
^ case in point ;)
 
@Scratte You're not the only one caring about declined flags
 
4:01 PM
Absolutely not. I too was unhappy when I lost my glorious 4.7k non-declined streak. =D
But my perspective on that kinda changed over time.
 
As a mod :)
 
Binding flags do make life easier on that front.
 
That gets replaced with pitchforks on Meta
 
And suspensions from the mod queue by @rene ;)
 
:D
 
4:05 PM
I think we're all afraid of Meta pitchforks. Fear of sharp pointy objects has certainly influenced my behavior before.
 
Question: I saw an answer that was a copy paste from an external link. Should I edit it to make it into a quote and provide attribution? Basically the whole answer is a copy-paste. I wonder if it's even worth editing at that point.
 
mod flag for plagiarism
 
Speaking hypothetically, I would look at the user's contribution to the site. If they post high quality content usually and this is an anomaly, I'd probably leave a comment under it and recommend they cite the source. Then revisit in a day.
 
It's a first post by a brand new user. I left a comment with the source.
 
If all they do is post low quality content, I'd use Suraj's approach.
 
4:07 PM
Also, I cannot mod flag the post right now - I've mod flagged it for potential sockpuppetry.
 
Perhaps you'd care to join me in another chatroom of your choice?
 
Sure thing. Let me just remember how to make one
 
4:20 PM
Self-thanking in a self-accepted answer. :-)
 
I think they were rather disappointed they didn't receive an answer
 
I can't deal with this.
People just polute SO with their low-quality posts and then use sock-puppets to upvote
 
@Dharman That's why the world gave us you :)
 
Just set up your own "Programming Q/A" page on FaceBook. That will be much freer of crap.
 
I was thinking of doing that
Too much work
 
I remember someone saying they wrote a PHP tutorial here once. Was that you @Dharman?
 
Not sure, but if you gather all my answers it would make a nice book
 
Then it was probably not you :)
 
How can I delete questions asked by such users without targetting them?
Actually, let's see if a mod deletes the question when they delete the account.
 
@Dharman You can put your delete votes on the posts and hope that other users notice them in the 10K moderation tools. There's nothing wrong with doing it outside of the room.
 
4:31 PM
I'll set a reminder in 2 weeks to see if a mod deleted the accounts and the question
 
@Dharman It was halfer, that said they wrote a PHP tutorial
 
I am very confused about Combining nine-fold cusp multibrot and enneagram using Python, is this spam or just not a question post? OP is clearly saying something about book he is writing, mentioning people he thanks, picking up the fallen airplane year ago, right now I flagged it for focus but it can be anything
 
4:47 PM
Is this an Answer? It seems to have through review.
 
I saw it in review and finally decided to skip it. The code is unique (no new in the other answers), but it really looks like a new question.
 
@Scratte anything other than the code would lead me to believe it's not an answer. However, the code looks like an attempt to answer. The code is wrong (no new needed) but other than that should work.
 
@Scratte No, definitely not
 
The whole Kotlin thing doesn't seem at all relevant, though.
 
4:55 PM
Hmm.. so that didn't settle it. I though that perhaps it was an attempt, but it could also be a "Why is this code of mine now working?".
 
@Scratte That's also very possible.
 
5:16 PM
@IanCampbell it's checking for wrong comment (the old one..:) I need to fix it maybe tomorrow or this week-end
 
@PetterFriberg Excellent, looking forward to testing it out. Thanks again.
 
you can run manual batch however if you like... but live notifications willl not work until I fix the code... lazy me...
 
How to flag this test question? I guess at least one mod would say R/A.
 
Ah I have now noticed I have linked the answer by accident, @rene or @NathanOliver can you bin my last cv-pls
 
5:19 PM
@JeanneDark baah I would just let it die... if they do it again for sure they will be question banned...
 
@JeanneDark I suppose 20k could just delete it themselves.
 
Thanks! It was nuked
 
it is gone already
 
I deleted it while I was looking at it anyway, but yeah, 20k would probably have gotten it, too.
 
Ooh, they're investigating JetBrains for the SolarWinds hack too apparently arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/01/…
 
5:21 PM
But I like how they said: "I'M NOT CHEATING IM PLAYING BY THE RULES"
when they could have saved the question in notepad or pastebin
 
Maybe they only had access to SO during an exam or something, but that's not really our business anyway.
 
Well, if that's true, then I guess it worked for them if they know how to find their recently deleted posts. (I guess they might not be allowed to log in)
 
Or saved it in their About me section if it needed to be on SO for whatever reason ;)
 
5:34 PM
Hmm.. is that in fashion now "Please answer quick. There's only 30 minutes left of my exam." ?
 
5:46 PM
@Scratte Related chat message (I was quoting from an answer there, btw.)
 
That doesn't look like it belongs in an Answer :O
 
It's an answer, for sure.
 
It is a comment at best
 
Hehe - SOCVR fight!!!
 
I agree it could be deleted, but my main problem is the < 20k recommend deletion on it.
 
it is the low quality queue ...
 
6:01 PM
It's not my domain but, IMHO, it's a case of vote to delete outside the LQP queue, not from within. However, as rene implied, that boils down to how you interpret the LQP review system.
I would generally skip such but, this evening I'm feeling controversial.
 
I would have left a comment asking them to improve it, but it was already recommended to delete, so I don't feel like doing it.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:17 PM
@Nkosi I's say it's likely a mistake that someone else will make too.
 
@Scratte Ok I'll leave it be. ty
Is it possible to ask for that message be moved so it does not attract any more attention?
 
Perhaps if you ping Makyen with a link to the message :)
 
7:36 PM
@Makyen can this be removed so it does not attract any more attention?
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
8:01 PM
@10Repsaysgetvaccinated No, but you should select recommend deletion. It was just a comment.
 
@user2357112supportsMonica do not call users like that
 
8:22 PM
@Dharman But that's against the rules of LQP.
 
Bah, the rules of LQP
if you can break the rules of LQP then they aren't rules, they're a system being used in a way other than it was designed
(and evidence that it needs to be changed at a system level)
 
@10Repsaysgetvaccinated No, it's not. The queue is designed to handle low quality posts. If you see something that is not a full answer or not a very good answer you can take a decision to delete it. Just make sure that you are not removing anything of value.
3
 
You should try to salvage as much as you can but sometimes there is nothing to keep. Don't hesitate to remove something just because it looks like it could be an answer. If it is low quality then remove it.
In this case it was clearly a wrong answer that had nothing of value whatsoever. It was just noise that should be removed. The queue has served its purpose perfectly
 
8:40 PM
Whoop!
 
Whoopsy!
 
Daisies?
Where's rene
 
@TylerH I fulfilled your prophecy (just over a week late, though).
 
@AdrianMole Whoopsie
 
9:05 PM
@Dharman I do not agree with that at all. If you find that some post is not a good quality because you're a subject matter expert then delete it outside the queue.
 
ok
 
The problem is that with this guidance people start to make decision about things that they shouldn't. "This looks like it's low quality". That queue is deleting correct Answers sometimes. It's not right.
 
@Scratte I don't see how Dharman's advice leads people to make decisions they shouldn't make
If a correct answer looks low quality, the author might just need to spend a bit more effort in making it look less low quality.
 
"If you see something that is not a full answer or not a very good answer you can take a decision to delete it." The disclaimer after is useless. If someone already doesn't think it's a good answer, they don't think it has value. "Think" is the keyword.
@TylerH So you're saying it's fine to delete Answers if someone think it just looks like it's not good? How about if I think no Answer on Stack looks OK?
 
@Scratte If you genuinely think any post is low quality, you're within your rights to cast whatever vote you want on it inside or outside any queue. If you weren't, the system wouldn't let you.
 
9:13 PM
@Dharman That is not good advice. Following that advice may lead to users receiving review bans. There are differing opinions on this subject, but the safe interpretation of how the LQP is to be used is that only posts which qualify for NAA and VLQ flags, under the strict guidelines on Meta, should receive "Recommend Delete" responses. That queue is not intended as a substitute for the 20k delete-vote privilege, which allows delete-votes to be placed on answers with a score <0, which
is intended for SMEs and trusted users to be able to do some additional clean-up.
 
If you are trying to abuse the system to make a point (like downvoting or delete voting any answer), well, that's not a good argument, because you're acting in bad faith
 
@TylerH No. That's for downvotes. Not delete votes in the queue.
 
@Scratte If you can cast a delete vote from a queue then you should be free to do so in the same manner as you would outside of the queue
 
NAAs are the posts that's to be deleted in that queue, not whatever doesn't look fine.
 
@Scratte Then it should be called the NAA Queue
 
9:15 PM
@TylerH No. You can cast any close vote you want on posts outside the close vote queue, but you may get suspended if you do it in the queue.
 
I don't think you have to be an SME to see that basically whatever that answer said was what the question was asking for. If you need the knowledge to make the decision then obviously skip or press Looks ok. I am only talking about obvious low quality posts
 
@TylerH Yes, if the user has > 20k, and the answer has a score < 0, then the user can delete-vote, if they feel the site is better without that answer. However, it was not intended that the LQP queue was a substitute for that privilege.
 
@TylerH It's a combination of the NAA and the VLQ-queue.
 
@Scratte you may get suspended outside the queue if you are incorrectly casting close votes enough to cause problems, too. That's not a queue-related problem
@Makyen Yeah, and as I mentioned way earlier, if the LQP lets you do other stuff, and it's not supposed to be done that way, then the LQP needs to be re-worked :-)
@Scratte Sounds like the options should be "Looks Fine", "Not An Answer", "Very Low Quality", and "Skip", then.
 
Actually, IIRC, in the LQP queue 20K+ users have the "Delete" option even on posts with zero nett score. For positive-scored answers, that reverts to "Recommend Deletion."
 
9:17 PM
@TylerH That's a different kind of suspension. No different from being abusive in other ways. I'm not going to get suspended for close flagging highly popular posts.
 
@TylerH I don't disagree with that, but it doesn't mean we should give advice that might get the user review-banned.
 
Don't you want some 'practice' at issuing review bans? We're here to help. ;-P
 
All I am saying is that some people just rigorously try to follow some kind of rules for LQP where anything that can be remotely considered as an answer is worth keeping. That queue is the primary filter for all low-quality posts. The system adds a lot of posts that it thinks is low-quality. Don't leave low-quality stuff that has no value whatsoever just because it is not a new question. The review queue depends on your judgement to decide if it should be removed or left around.
 
@Scratte "I'm not going to get suspended for close flagging highly popular posts" Eh, you kinda should be, if a mod is made aware of it and the flags are clearly incorrect and frequent enough to be causing problems/annoyances (and you've been told not to do that already. System abuses are system abuses, whether they happen in the queue or out of it.
 
The queue lets you delete any Answer. That's why the guideline says only NAA's should be deleted there.
 
9:19 PM
@Scratte Which guideline?
 
@Makyen Well the user is only gonna get review banned if a mod checks and decides they're using the queue in a way the mod doesn't like :-P
 
@TylerH Well.. it doesn't happen. You can go through the Triage queue and close vote everything without even reading it if you like, and no one will suspend you.
 
but to be clear we're talking about a user who might be using the queue as the queue is designed, and the way the mod wants it used differs from that
 
@Makyen It's not just that. Answers that should be just downvotes are deleted there.
 
@Scratte OK? Not sure what your point is. Sounded like you were just talking about close flagging outside of queues, not inside other queues
The only reason you get review suspended for 'wrong' reviews is because that's an option for finer control that mods have. If it didn't exist (and it used to not exist, IIRC), users would just get site-suspended
 
9:22 PM
@TylerH That's the same thing, no. It's still outside the close vote queue.
 
@Scratte all this chat makes me wonder why, when Sam was doing 1500 reviews a day, why he didn't just keep the LQP at 0 instead of spending that time in the CVQ
 
The recent posts on meta with users close voting even when they know the post shouldn't be closed and even deleting it, is proof that no suspension occurs for doing this.
 
@Scratte well, suspensions start out at what, 1 day? 1 hour? and users almost always get warnings before suspensions. So you wouldn't necessarily know what happened to them
 
@TylerH It says on the header of the account..
It's not like I didn't check that.
 
@TylerH Not really. The queue was designed to review NAA and VLQ flags. The use of those flags is fairly strictly defined in various Meta posts. That user's in the LQP queue take it upon themselves to also evaluate as to if the post is LQ, not exclusively VLQ, that is not an intended part of the queue design.
2
OTOH, I do agree that the design of the queue makes it very easy into slipping into evaluating the posts seen there against a LQ criteria, as opposed to the VLQ criteria defined on Meta. The LQP should have been more clearly designed to emphasize that the criteria which was to be used was VLQ (and NAA).
 
9:31 PM
@Scratte only while they are suspended
you don't get to see historical suspension history unless you're a mod
 
Isn't that what You're doing it wrong: A plea for sanity in the Low Quality Posts queue is saying? Don't slip into just deleting stuff that's not NAA?
2
@TylerH I checked on the day, on the evening.. the next day. All the users that close voted and delete voted.
 
@Makyen Sounds like the queue needs more system-level changes even more badly, then.
 
@TylerH Yeah. Hopefully there will be more improvements in the near future.
 
2021 should show lots of progress for the site features. Personally I'm hoping the close vote review queue overhaul comes out first, though
IIRC that was supposed to land in 2020 before COVID mucked everything up
 
10:06 PM
@TylerH What? Isn't this 2020: unleashed?
 
All this vigorous discussion has inspired me to redouble my efforts to get to 20k
 
11:03 PM
meta is no fun :( They ruined the empty post..
 
11:35 PM
@Shree Simply removing the library request would make it on-topic
although it would invalidate the link-only answers, perhaps. Thoughts, @Makyen?
Well, that was efficient...
 
@TylerH Done and thanks for the heads up.
 
@TylerH :)
 
11:53 PM
@Ruzihm That question sure looks like it has a CVE. Is it flagged because its not minimal? Seems clear. I got this stuff, it works when I target windows but not android, heres the error. Its even got some answers-lite swirling around in the comments, its probably an error caused by changing versions of unity between original compilation and now.
Oh wait, I just noticed that the codes in unityscript. Huh. Thats been dead for three years now...
 
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