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2:03 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels sure, we can ask to merge that into the other question
 
@AlonEitan If you voted to close as Needs Details, please include that in your request, along with any other valid close reasons.
 
@cigien No MCVE is a valid close reason. We ask for a standard reason so other voters know what the requester thinks is wrong. Not sure it matters if you pick a different reason
 
@cigien I'm still using the old terminology :) I will use the new one from now on
 
Is this spam, or just NAA? (I didn't check the link): stackoverflow.com/a/65091446
 
2:14 PM
@Machavity Sure. The FAQ does say "For cv-pls requests: As with most requests, a request reason is required. It is highly recommended that your request reason includes your actual close reason, even if that was a custom reason...", so I was going with that.
Not my emphasis.
@AlonEitan No, I didn't mean the terminology, but the actual close reason didn't seem to correspond with your close vote.
 
@cigien "No MCVE" is the same as "Needs debugging details" :)
 
@cigien yeah, if only those RO's were consistent in their rulings ...
 
@Scratte Yes, I know. There was a close vote for Needs details, so I assumed Alon used that before posting a request.
 
Ahh.. Yes. I see a lot of posts closed the wrong way with that one. A HowTo Question needing debugging details :(
 
@rene Indeed :)
 
2:19 PM
@Scratte If it's "How to debug...?" ;)
 
@JeanneDark Then it may "Need details or clarity" xD
 
@Scratte I'm not arguing that Needs Details is a wrong close reason for the post though, it's a fine reason. I'm just a stickler for rules, that's all, so I mentioned it :) It's not a big deal at all.
 
@janw I've seen those pop up in Charcoal. It's apparently the hot new spam tactic
 
Yes. I think I'm sort of the same. Except if the rules are wrong.. then I'll try to fight it.
 
@Scratte Absolutely :) in this case, I don't think it matters too much either way. And as a lot of the wording in the FAQ, it's recommended, not a requirement, so it's fine.
 
2:29 PM
@cigien Ahh.. but then I get on my toes too. Why would they say "recommended" and not "required"? I'm thinking 1. because sometimes there are multiple reason that apply. 2. If one slips up on occasion, it's probably fine, since it takes 3 to slip for the end result to be wrong. But, I do not see it as as an excuse to just pick anything because it's only "recommended" :)
 
@Machavity Oh wow, they are pretty creative. Except from the fact that it was obviously posted at the wrong place, it kinda looked like a misguided but possibly valid complaint...
 
I read somewhere there is userscript for 10K+ tools which hides questions from delete vote list those will roomba. Can someone please post a link to it?
 
@Scratte One reason might be users like us who can't vote to close but only flag (and so cannot include our "actual close reason").
 
@Scratte I haven't given it much thought, but I assume like all the wording in the FAQ, there are well thought out reasons for why it's not a requirement. And "excuse" is not really the point, it's a question of enforcement. If there's no reason to make it optional, then I think the FAQ needs a slight rewrite.
 
You might also close vote with reason A but then notice that maybe reason B is better and then they differ (eg. imagine you voting to close then notice it's a dupe).
 
@AmitJoshi meta.stackoverflow.com/a/401818/2756409 this answer links to it
 
@TylerH Registered answer as true positive and blacklisted user.
 
@cigien Not sure what you mean with "optional" or why it should need a rewrite. A close reason needs to be there, it's required. It's only recommended that it's the same as your close vote. But there are reasons why it makes sense. Users like me with not enough rep to actually close vote, or if you're out of close votes, or if you changed your mind...
 
2:49 PM
...(eg. question asks several opinion-based questions and you chose "opinion-based" but then think "needs more focus" fits better. If you retracted your CV you wouldn't be able to close vote again. Should you then no longer be allowed to cv-request it in here even if it should be closed as soon as possible?)
 
@JeanneDark I meant "optional" in that "it's optional for the request reason to match the close vote". If you can't CV, or have run out of CVs then that bullet is moot. If you change your mind that's fine, so long as the original reason is valid. If the original reason is invalid then I think retracting the CV, and even the request, is the right thing to do.
btw, I have labs for 7 hours straight starting in 10 mins, so I probably won't be able to respond to follow ups on chat for a while. I'll respond later though.
 
@cigien Why? Two others can still vote to close with the correct reason and then that's the one that will be shown. It's only invalid if the question shouldn't be closed. But if a question asks for hardware recommendations and you vote to close as typo, it seems strange to not allow a cv-request here (especially with a suggested close reason "recommendation" or "general hardware software").
 
Is this an NAA?
 
@AmitJoshi First part, yes, second part, no
 
@AmitJoshi Not sure. "change structure size in DeviceIoControl(..) from 8 to 24." seems to be a new suggestion to the OP so might be considered an answer.
 
2:58 PM
Editing the "thanks" part out should be sufficient
 
@cigien What did we agreee on such questions? stackoverflow.com/questions/65078565/…
It does not look very useful to me, because why would anyone search for the phrase "What is the name of this character" and expect to find this answer.
 
Is this question good? New Activity. Out of close votes... Highly upvoted answers though...
 
@AmitJoshi yes.
2
 
@rene Slightly edited...
To the same question above, please refer to this answer. I think it is Link Only. I do not know C++ so cannot be sure.
 
3:23 PM
@AmitJoshi I've turned it into a not quite a NAA.
Also, yes, IMHO the Q is useful
 
3:37 PM
I think I just got a sarcastic "Hope this helps" in a comment.. very strange.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:29 PM
@RiggsFolly Looks like you answered that question?
 
5:48 PM
@Scratte Btw. my custom flag was marked helpful and the post deleted
 
Time to celebrate :) The suspense is over and the outcome favorable :)
 
This is awesome: stackoverflow.com/questions/65095699/… They added the warning for me under their own question
 
@Dharman Intriguing. Are they warning themselves?
 
I assume
 
Every now and again I give myself a jolly good talking to, and to be fair, I do sometimes listen.
 
6:19 PM
@Scratte I demand a recount.
 
@AdrianMole But that would hurt ... me
 
Collateral damage - can't be helped. ;(
 
@AdrianMole You got one declined?
 
No! Nae! Never!
... well, not since I was a young lad of 2K.
 
6:23 PM
What's the recount for then? I mean you could "contact us" and ask for your flag counts to be reset to 0 :D Seeing as you're fast approaching 25K, perhaps you could just restart with a new account. Then you'd have the fun of working yourself up to the anticlimax again :D
 
I just want something to be recounted. It's my democratic right.
 
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 enough?
 
@JeanneDark You were connected to the Internet at the time. Your counting is clearly suspect...
 
@JeanneDark You used reference materials for that, isn't that cheating?
 
The premise is flawed! SOCVR is not a democracy, it's ruled by rene
7
 
6:30 PM
The rules are there, but they are blurry and indistinct.
 
I know how to read them. I have the gift
 
@JeanneDark Special glasses? Apparently, they can help.
 
I wonder what would happen if rene and Queen had their own room..
 
Pollination would happen. xD
 
@Scratte mercury is poisonous to plants. Just sayin...
5
 
6:39 PM
^ subtle, but good. Keep up the lessons!
 
I'm lost.. I have no idea what that refers too. Are you saying Queen is a thermometer?
 
@Scratte Queen, Freddie Mercury
 
I see.. I was far along the "Heat Detector" sidetrack :)
 
of note... sauce for the claim?
 
6:48 PM
Please, no un-sauced claims!
 
You know, Queen isn't the only bee here. Just puttin it out there.....
 
@10Rep You're rick rolling users from your profile :D
 
Soon that will be replaced with my actual first video... but it's fun rickrolling as well.
 
Is that a new Smokey thing? I've seen this twice in a short period now.
 
7:04 PM
@Scratte check out line 1337 on the blacklistedwebsites.txt
 
@10Rep I was referring to "Scam aimed at customers in body"
 
@Scratte Ok, I found the actual one. It's not new...
 
@10Rep Hmm.. I think I'd need to see a diff for that to make sense. I mean how do I know it wasn't always there? :)
 
I'm new to github. Finding that was a huge task in itself :D
 
@10Rep Never mind :)
I'm not a fan of github. Normally I'd use the "blame" option here. But I generally find github a bit confusing.
Ahh.. it seems to be from October 23rd.
 
7:16 PM
@Scratte So it isn't new, right?
 
@10Rep 5 weeks seems fairly new, but I guess I expected it was only a few days old.
 
I've never seen that either, but I knew that if it was a few days old they would definitely have made a bigger deal about it.
 
@10Rep I don't hang out in charcoal, so I guess I don't really know what what they make a big deal out of :)
 
7:33 PM
@Scratte the Smoke Detector code has gone through a number of refactorings so proper attribution of git blame is often not a trivial endeavor
 
Is this just a rude rant, or could it be moved to Meta?
 
@Scratte not a stellar rule, I concede metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/reason/175
 
@AdrianMole Tons of those rant on meta, let it die by roomba
 
Fair comment.
 
@AdrianMole rant. No point moving it to meta.
 
7:35 PM
pretty lame for a rant though
 
@tripleee Oh! That is very useful :)
 
There seems to be one per day of those "scams".
9 tp's
 
uh no, 9 FPs
 
Wait green is false positive?
 
7:38 PM
you are very confused (-:
maybe you have dark mode?
 
This is what I see, so green is fp?
 
? look at it again...
 
there is a clearly labelled legend under the graph; red is false positives
 
It says below that green is tp, and there are 9 green.... so 9 tp, right?
 
I know the terminology can be confusing, so just in case; true positive means we said it was spam, and it was spam -- false positive is we said it was spam, but it was not
@10Rep I only see the green graph jump to 1 twice, on Nov 3 and Nov 8
 
7:42 PM
Ok, so 2 tp's, and a bunch of fp's
 
There are only 2 greens. The other seven are at the baseline (0).
 
the red graph has more ups and downs, and goes up to 2 on Nov 30
 
I used to draw graphs starting on 1 at the base, so I got confused.
 
ah yes if you are looking at the green blips on the X axis that could be confusing
 
The confusing bit is that the red stuff is not red flaggable, but the green stuff should be flagged red.
 
7:43 PM
But there are also a number of green blips obscured by red blips.
 
lol yeah green is spam red is not :)
go go spam... green light...
 
Can I get a green flag by red flagging lots of green stuff?
 
don't, we are confused already
 
@AdrianMole No.. You only get the green flag for non-red flaggable things, which should be the red blips :)
 
7:45 PM
but it's green
 
I can put other flags on red-flaggable posts, though. NAAs on R/A or spam get marked helpful. :)
 
Ideally.. those colours should be switched.. OR other colours whould be used. As in blue: Not spam. Red: Spam
 
meeh, the graph shows how good a filter is...
 
yes
I think blue should be not spam, and red should be spam
 
@AdrianMole That is true. Knock yourself out putting NAA's on spam Answers and VLQ's on spam Questions :)
 
7:48 PM
meh
 
On the bright side: Colour blind people just read the text and probably cannot see what's smart about that graph.
 
So mark zuckerberg can't get smokey privileges?
 
red-green colorblindness strikes again...
 
@10Rep nope
 
@PetterFriberg How do you know Mark doesn't already have it?
 
7:51 PM
@Scratte @10Rep The detection has been around since 2015, but it was recently given it's own name. Prior to that, it was inappropriately under "bad keyword in". Please see these chat messages for more detail and links to even more detail.
 
@Scratte because I have almost 20K... so you know... I'm know more then Mark? :D
 
@Makyen Thank you :) Nice long explanation too :)
@PetterFriberg I like your logic. I'm only 2K.. I know less than you :)
 
Now the question is: Do we know for sure Mark doesn't have an account with even more rep, or is there a peak at around 19.1k?
 
@BaummitAugen I was about to say "How do I know you're not Mark, but call yourself something else?" :)
 
Yeah, or that. =D
 
7:59 PM
But then there wouldn't be any green in the profile picture, right?
 
@Scratte That's right but now that Baum is here I better "huush"
 
How do I know for sure, that you're a tree and not really a snail that went out on the lawn the day it was cut and got all the clippings on your head?
 
@PetterFriberg I'm basically on my way out; my fridge is almost empty.
 
How is stuff going?
 
Good good, thanks, and you?
@Scratte Maybe even intentional undercover snail, to make friends with other produce?
 
8:02 PM
All ok, for now neither business nor children are not suffering from covid
You know it's your turn to come to Italy now... I already done mine part :)
 
That's good to hear. :)
 
@BaummitAugen :O Please don't eat rene..
 
Darn when this covid is over it would be nice to do a meeting :), I got tons of space... not sure how to get BR to get to Italy though.... Rob probably we can convince...
 
@PetterFriberg Heh yeah, maybe not the best time right now... =D
@PetterFriberg Yeah, that would be fun. Lots of the SOBotics folks are not too far away I suppose.
 
Ughhh covid. It took all my self control to not go biking on thanksgiving
 
8:05 PM
Alright, gotta run before the store closes. See you around. :)
 
Cya Baum... have fun
 
8:27 PM
@Dharman The question itself is on-topic. You're right that the original title was not useful, but the edit to describe what the character means makes it searchable and as a result useful. I'm not sure why "social" was added to the title though.
 
8:50 PM
@JeanneDark For me the issue is not so much what reason the OP sees, but what reason the close-voters used. I'm not comfortable with the idea that the request is valid so long as the question should be closed. The request reason is the reason the post should be closed (as far as the user who posted the request is concerned; other users can disagree of course).
If users are allowed to make requests because they think the post should be closed, but are not obliged to provide their own close reason, it's one short step away from closing posts because they feel the post should be closed. This makes me uncomfortable, and I've brought this up on meta recently.
@SotiriosDelimanolis Would removing "or any 3rd party API" make that on-topic?
 
9:08 PM
I edited the question to add formatting (slapped code tags around the multi-line text), but the browser still shows the text as single line for me- why is that?
 
@tink It's the list item you created above it
 
Oh - I did? Thanks... I'll hop back to it.
 
that messes with indentation requirements for code below it
 
So an empty line after the e.G. did that? Wow
And thanks for the clean-up.
 
yeah, weird layout behavior
 
9:11 PM
I'd never have picked up on that - thanks again =}
 
@Machavity I moved this to MSO because I spent a stupid amount of time writing an answer for it - meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/403293/…
7
 
@cigien So if someone chose a close reason that doesn't fit so well and then reconsiders and suggest a better one in their cv-pls request, isn't that a good thing? Also, the other potential close voters are not obliged to use either close reason or close at all and I've seen it time and again that questionable requests were questioned (even unquestionable ones).
@cigien They are obliged to provide a close reason. And their actual close vote is visible to others who can vote to close. Is this that much of a problem anyway? I can't see close votes, so I don't know how often they differ. But the case that sparked the discussion (details or clarity instead of debugging details was pretty harmless). And the close reasons are also not that great, eg. "details or clarity" or "more focus" - what if it's too broad because it lacks details narrowing it down?
Let's take homework questions (ie. just posting an assignment) - I learned that they should be closed as "more focus" but I know other people vote to close as "details or clarity" and both kind of apply.
 
9:30 PM
@Catija That works for me. Appreciate the kind words for the room too
 
:D Hey, y'all do a hard thing and it's often unrecognized - you deserve some appreciation, not more red tape to go through. :)
 
@Machavity But cost you some MSE rep ;)
 
@Catija <3
 
@JeanneDark Aw man, my MSE rep. What ever will I do without it?
 
@JeanneDark A better close reason is fine if there are multiple possible reasons, though I would still suggest saying something like "cv-pls I closed as X but Y is more appropriate link". But if someone closes with a wrong reason, then I think the request should be trashed, and if there is a valid close reason, the request should be made again with that reason.
@JeanneDark Great question. I thought until very recently that the precise close reasons didn't really matter, but as the meta post I made revealed, there is major disagreement as to what close reasons should apply to posts, leading to closures of posts that simply shouldn't have been closed in the first place.
So yes, I think this is a problem. Not in this particular instance, since both "Needs Details", and "No MCVE" are valid close reasons, but in general being clear about close reasons is good. And the fact that posts can have multiple close reasons is not a reason to give up on enforcing this clarity.
 
9:40 PM
@Machavity is this like Whose Line?
Where the rep doesn't matter because Ryan Makyen always wins anyway?
 
I think on MSE, Shog always wins.
10
 
@cigien Is this a problem specifically affecting SOCVR and therefore making a change in the FAQ necessary? Again, such a change would affect people who can't close vote because they have not enough rep or are out of close votes also.
 
@JeanneDark I'm not saying the FAQ needs a rewrite. As I mentioned previously, there are probably many good reasons why the request reason is not required to match the close reason. e.g. as you've pointed out, users who can't CV, or who've run out of votes can't do this. But for users who do CV, I think it's perfectly reasonable that we expect their request reasons to match. And if they don't match, to expect an explanation of why not.
"Enforcing" this, or not, wouldn't require a rewrite, but simply consistency among ROs as to what "highly recommended" means in that particular bullet point. Consistency that at the moment, appears to be lacking.
 
@cigien And you are free to ask them why (even if they match). If you read the part in the FAQ again, you'll see that the reason that's given is that other curators are more likely to also vote on your request.
FAQ: "Including an actual close reason significantly increases the likelihood that your request will be acted upon by other users."
 
9:57 PM
@JeanneDark I did ask the user why, and an RO responded with this. To quote them, "We ask for a standard reason so other voters know what the requester thinks is wrong." So making it more likely that other curators will also vote on the request is not the only reason, it seems.
 
@Catija That was my first instinct for whose name to write, I will admit...
@cigien I'm not sure what your concern is here re: close vote reasons being provided in requests.
We require that users post some reason for why a post should be closed. While we don't explicitly say so, it is assumed that the listed reason is the one used by the requestor. However, sometimes the requestor may be wrong, but the question is still close-worthy for another reason. In a perfect world, we'd be able to edit the request's close reason. Unfortunately, most of the time this discussion happens, it's after the edit timer has expired
It's too much work to practically require something like "bin the request, and then you re-request immediately with another, actually accurate reason", especially considering, as the FAQ states, it is CV-please, not CV-or I stab you. Users can disagree that a post needs to be closed
They can even disagree out loud and state their perspectives here. No one who participates here is expected to vote on way or another, or to cast the same type of vote.
We do explicitly encourage users to always review questions completely independently; blind link-clicking and voting helps no one.
 
@TylerH hee hee. He's the undisputed meta master.
 
10:12 PM
@TylerH Yeah, that all makes complete sense. Then what is this line in the FAQ supposed to mean, "It is highly recommended that your request reason includes your actual close reason"? Is it, as Jeanne suggested, primarily to make it more likely that other users will vote on it? I'm fine with that, though I find the emphasis on that text a bit misleading. That's probably just me though.
 
@cigien If that's the one I am thinking of, we mean a prescribed reason, which I believe is what it used to say. In other words, what reason is the one you clicked the radio button for?
It was put there to make sure people didn't say things like "[cv-pls] absolute trash of a question. <link to question>" etc.
because "absolute trash of a question" is not a close reason
there are several prescribed reasons (provided by the site): the most common are too broad, unclear, opinion-based, duplicate, or belongs on another site
(they've changed 'labels' earlier this year/late last year, so you won't find 'too broad' or 'unclear', literally, if you go looking for such words)
 
I wonder if it's very common that people make throwaway accounts just to ask a question
 
@TylerH That's exactly what I'm asking. A user made a request with a close reason that was different from the radio button they clicked (as far as I could tell). Does it matter if someone does that?
 
@cigien No, I do that sometimes
Was it me this time?
 
Not relevant, but since you ask, no :)
 
10:20 PM
Ok, because sometimes I vote first and then read the question
 
I feel like there should be a smiley face at the end of that sentence.
 
Not really, I am being serious. I can see from miles away the question is really bad so I vote to close. If I am wrong then I can always retract my vote and if I have chosen the wrong reason does it really matter much? I usually pick needs details or no MCVE anyway
Usually if I decide that a different reason would be more appropriate is when I find a duplicate that suits to close the question too
 
@Dharman Ok, I have many follow ups, but I need to be AKB for a bit. Work beckons :( I will get back to this though.
 
@cigien Not particularly. If it raises a concern, you're free to ask about why, but otherwise there's no inherent issue, I don't think. If you notice that a user in particular is always doing that, do let a Room Owner know.
 
10:40 PM
@Machavity How did you lock it both at the same time?
Is that a bug? There are now two banners
 
Possibly. Interesting that it happened
 
Mods breaking all the thingz
 
It shows I locked it and added the dispute notice. Only shows Bhargav added the dispute notice. I assume mine is the one still in effect
Yep, 5 secs apart on the log
 
@Catija on SOCVR @Vega always wins :)
 
11:09 PM
@TylerH Ok, sounds good, thanks.
@Dharman I don't really know. I'll have to think about it more.
@Dharman Pretty soon, you'll get a php hammer? Do you think you'll see more questions as duplicates at that point?
 
FTR I am not encouraging blind voting. I am always making a judgement, but sometimes my judgement is not as thorough as it should be.
 
Sure, I understand.
 
Yes, I will definitely pay more attention to close questions as duplicates, but it's really difficult to find correct duplicates.
However, there needs to be balance. I see users close as duplicates of Qs like "How do I debug" when the question needs debugging details. It might help OP but is it really the correct reason?
 
Sure, I've made my opinion clear on RTFM targets. But I see a lot of questions as duplicates since I got a hammer. And I use mine quite a lot I think.
 
It's handy because you can close the question without waiting for another 2 people
When I get the hammer you have my permission to stalk me and check on my CVs
 
11:21 PM
I'd have to learn php first :)
 
@Dharman I've seen that too on the queues -I don't like it, incorrect reason and link to thread should instead be a comment- there will have to be a meta post about it.... Eventually ...
 
@Dharman I'm not sure why correct close reasons matter to me. Possibly because I don't fully understand what content SO wants. MY preferences are of course for what is useful to me. The current close reasons are what I use to decide when to cast votes, so I'm always looking for clarity on that.
 
@Adriaan Does it lack sufficient information to answer the question? If not, then it's fine. We are not here to judge effort.
@JeanneDark Yes, that's normal. Custom flags take approximately forever to process. But you made the right call: custom flags are appropriate for answers that need to be deleted for reasons other than obvious not-an-answer-ness, including plagiarism and/or no added value whatsoever compared to other, older answers.
@JeanneDark Sometimes. Not with any regularity that you can rely upon.
 
Custom flags don't take forever anymore. They might take a few days but it's not weeks or months anymore
 
@JeanneDark Mods can view all posts with pending NAA or VLQ flags. By default, these flags are only shown to moderators when they have been active for 1 hour, but mods can force them all to be displayed, regardless of time. When the mod flag queue is otherwise empty, we'll do this to give us more buttons to click.
@Dharman Small values of "forever"
@Dharman It would be permissible, were it a programming question. That isn't.
 
11:40 PM
I won't argue. I am unclear on it myself.
 
"What is this symbol in PyCharm?" == programming question, so OK.
"What is this symbol on my iPhone home screen?" == not programming question, so close.
 
@Dharman If I were every to ask a Question on Stack. I'd create an account for it and use a VPN. I see a lot of wrongly closed posts and I'm not interested in having that associated with my account.
 
@Scratte Why would you be fussed about having a wrongly-closed question associated with your account? That would not be a poor reflection on you.
 
@CodyGray Because the system doesn't care who's in the wrong. They system assumes it's my fault. That's how the Question ban works. It's also how the badge for curious works. So it absolutely would reflect on me.
 
There's no shame in having a wrongly-closed question associated with your account. Having closed questions is generally normal and unavoidable.
 
11:43 PM
@Scratte No, it would merely reflect that the System was Confused.
Question bans don't care much, if at all, about closed questions anyway.
 
@CodyGray Really? You participated on @cigien's post. Do you really think a new user with a -15 scored post would not get a Question ban really fast after that? Unless they asked debug my tictactoe Question for the next 10 ones, they're be hard pressed to get any good ratings.
 
I mean, if users give the system wrong information, it will draw wrong conclusions. That doesn't mean that you did anything wrong, though, so it doesn't reflect poorly on you. It reflects poorly on the users who gave the system the wrong information.
I'm 90% sure that users don't get question banned after a single question.
 
@TylerH I was briefly confused until I realized that, for once in this room, I am not the Ryan in question.
 
@Dharman That is just my point! It's horrible! It means the system isn't working.
 
Unless they posted spam as their first question
@Scratte No, it means the system is working.
What's not working is getting you help to edit and get the question reopened
 
11:46 PM
@CodyGray That is true. It takes two..
@Dharman Are you talking about duplicate closures or "grasping as straws" closures for HowTo Questions?
 
If you really think that the problem you asked about is going to make Stack Overflow better and a lot of people will be searching for the same then there should be a better process to get the question reopened
 
What's wrong with the current process?
Other than people who think "effort"/"difficulty" is relevant for close reasons.
 
For one, people who are unfamiliar with the technology are reviewing it.
It's ok to let people close the questions, because often they can understand why it needs closing, but reopening it requires some domain knowledge
 
The queue can be filtered by tags.
 
@Dharman Heh.. I'm not going to ask a Question here. I'm past that. I don't care what it is I can't figure out in a day, I'd rather spend 14 days figuring it out than post here. And the reason why is because I see posts getting closed that shouldn't be closed. And the piling on voting.
 
11:50 PM
As I told Jeanne Dark some time back (regarding her inability to find anything worth answering, amid all the crap), that is one of the saddest things I've ever heard related to the site, and essentially proves that something is not working. At all.
 
I actually agree with that. Asking questions on Stack Overflow is a terrible experience. If you need help then you are better off doing research on your own
 
Although... "piling on voting" is a trigger phrase for me. So that edit tipped me over the balance from sad to annoyed.
 
@Dharman That.. I do not like that people who do not know about a subject gets to close it.
 
@Scratte At all? Should moderators be unable to close clear garbage questions because we lack subject matter expertise?
 
@CodyGray Yes, well.. it's a scary thing. I do not think it's possible to bring a post back from -15. I don't need a post to be at 2 either. But such a low score makes it unfixable..
 
11:53 PM
@Scratte No, some questions are clearly off-topic without knowing the topic in any detail. One can just tell if a question is unclear, lacks an MCVE, etc.
 
@Scratte Then the solution is not to stop "piling on voting", because that would mean people who come at a question late cannot express their personal opinion. Rather, the solution is to come up with a way to "reset" a question that has been edited and re-opened.
 
@Dharman And it's ironic that a Q/A site is the worst place to ask a Question..
 
Right, so, why is asking a question on SO such a terrible experience?
Genuine question. I don't get it. It's never been a terrible experience for me.
 
This room helps becasue apart from the canned reason you can explain why you have cast your vote. This way you can make a stronger case one way or another for people unfamiliar with the technology.
 
Yes, sometimes questions get wrongly closed and/or downvoted because people are trying to be Soup Nazis, but... that's the exception not the rule.
 
11:56 PM
@CodyGray Mostly I see opinionated close voting. And I very strongly believe that moderator should not be closing borderline posts that by a strict sense is fine according to the guideline in the help center.
 
Asking questions is terrible because you have to well familiar with what you are asking about for that question to be successful. You have to pretty much know the answer before you ask the question
 
Ah, no, of course they shouldn't. Nobody should.
@Dharman Ironically... the people who try to ask and answer their own question fare the worst.
 
Of course, curators like us are biased because all of our questions are getting downvotes anyway.
 
@CodyGray Why isn't this a programming question?
 
@cigien Can you explain what it has to do with programming?
 
11:58 PM
@CodyGray I have had the discussion about completely rewriting a Question before. Some say it's abusing the system. I do not agree at all. If a post has only one trip to the reopen queue, then I cannot understand why it must be the "same" question. It'll take the same effort from users reviewing it.
 
@CodyGray it asks how to create the character in HTML, which I believe, for SO purposes, is programming
 
@Scratte I don't think you should be changing the question to something entirely different. Just delete it and ask a new one. But if you're just talking about major clarifications, then, yes, that's fine, and often necessary to get it reopened.
 
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