« first day (2533 days earlier)      last day (1508 days later) » 
00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

00:00
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica doesn't that one just need editing?
@MichaelWelch Not sure, I don't understand what they're asking.
Swift has a feature not in Java. You can define a protocol (think interface) that defines a class level method. Then classes that implement the protocol need to implement that class method. Java can't do that, so maybe this should be closed because the answer will just be "No, you can't do that"
@Dharman Thanks, although if he is caught using sockpuppets, I will have an extremely poor impression of that button of yours.
00:19
is this off-topic? stackoverflow.com/questions/64550903/… I'm not knowledgeable in the area, but it seems like an interesting question
Maybe a different community other than stack overflow?
@MichaelWelch It's on the edge... I suppose you could argue for Server Fault. Personally, I find the question interesting enough that I'd like to see it stay, though.
That's just my opinion, though
thanks
lol, I'm not used to this power. (first time in the chat) @Mayken made quick work of that one
@MichaelWelch It's interesting, but definitely not on-topic.
Guess @Makyen didn't agree with me on that :)
00:26
It already has a reopen vote :p
This is why I'm here. I'm finding the opinions are quite diverse. Looking to learn a bit
I hope they do re-post it on Server Fault, I'd actually like to know the answer to that
@MichaelWelch You'll definitely get plenty of chances to do that :) I joined this room quite recently, and it's been great, I've already learned a lot :)
Starry, starry night ... :P
@cigien Yeah, pretty happy I finally discovered this. Been doing review on and off in small periods of time for 5 years never even considering that there was probably a chat room just for this
00:32
@πάνταῥεῖ Paint your palette blue and grey... :P
@MichaelWelch In addition to not being within Stack Overflow's scope, it's basically a survey question which is asking "How do [the members of this unbounded set] implement [this system level function which can be done many ways]". The only complete answer is: "Basically any way that you can think of".
@πάνταῥεῖ Ear today, gone tomorrow.
sure understood. I never even got that far @Makyen. Just didn't think it was programming related even though it was interesting
Morning o/ (I didn't sleep so it is all the same xD )
00:47
@MichaelWelch "Not about programming" or developer tools got me many times :) Despite it being the major requirement for the site.
01:00
gg
2
01:38
Are image only answers allowed? Thinking of this: stackoverflow.com/a/63656396/6699433 (Well, almost image only)
I think the "almost" saves it, but it's not a good answer due to mostly being an image...
@klutt It's an image of standard text, so while not ideal, I think it's ok. Also, you should mention that you're involved in a post when you start a discussion about it.
That tag seems to be a voting paradise ;)
Images of text are totally inaccessible to screen-reader users, and also cannot be searched or copy/pasted. Same reason we don't allow images of error messages or code.
@RyanM That's what I thought. So what to do?
01:48
Probably the best thing would be to ask them if they could replace the image with a quote of the text from the source
@RyanM I did :)
A month ago
I don't think you can do anything. It says "No it is not. It is Unspecified Behaviour". A flag will likely be declined. You can vote on it.. Ohh.. Nick to the rescue ;)
@klutt given that it's a copy of a page from a book, without attribution, it's at best plagiarism, at worst copyright violation. I would imagine SO, being a commercial organisation, would probably prefer not to have that on their site.
ah...well, technically "No it is not. It is Unspecified Behaviour" is an answer, so the image isn't required. You could always replace it yourself if you wanted, but I don't think there's anything else you could do (other than downvote it).
@Nick Plagiarism is a stretch, it's pretty clear they're "quoting" the spec.
@Nick I don't think that's right. Quoting the standard is not plagiarism.
01:51
scare quotes because the "quote" is a screenshot.
@RyanM @cigien well, yeah it is clear if you read carefully enough to see "this International Standard" which I had not done
I'll go back in my box now :)
I honestly didn't either, it just really looks like a language spec ^^;
@RyanM I haven't read enough to know...
Well, at least I brought it to your attention :D
@Nick It was a good option to consider :)
@RyanM :)
@Nick Shouldn't that be on Server Fault?
@cigien Even if you vote for Server Fault, which is probably not a bad choice, I don't think it actually gets migrated. There's no option to actually propose it on my list. (Not in "his question belongs on another site in the Stack Exchange network")
The "About professional server- or networking-related infrastructure administration" just closes it.
@Scratte Strange, it says "too old to migrate", but gives me the option of selecting "Server Fault".
@Scratte Oh, I see. Well, seems like a better CV reason, so I'll use it :)
@cigien This is my list of actual migrate options Interesting that close voters have more options.
02:09
@Scratte Hmm, that is odd. There must be a meta post about it :)
@cigien I'm not fussed.. I've never closed a post asking for it to me migrated.
@Scratte Oh really? I vote to close for migration to Super User quite often.
@cigien I never read every post on their entire meta meta site about all their rules, so I don't feel comfortable proposing it.
@Scratte Aah fair enough. I think I propose migration appropriately, but I should probably refresh my memory to make sure I'm not goofing on that.
I do migrations very occasionally, generally to save a particularly good question or answer.
02:15
To be honest, I can almost not tell when a post is OK for Stack Overflow :) It's much easier to find some fault..
Oh, geeze, I have really coded some f****d up s**t now :D
I'm trying to make a "safe" version of scanf
(Yes, I know I'm doomed to fail, haha)
@klutt Well, if you run into trouble, I happen to know a website where you can ask for help ;)
So what I wanted to do was to create a wrapper that exits the program if something is wrong with the call
So what I need is a variadic function that takes a format string and then an arbitrary amount of arguments
And then it should parse the string to count the number of expected arguments and then count the number of arguments supplied to the variadic function
Had to write the format string parser myself, and that went fairly well. But then it was counting the number of arguments. Turns out there was no real way to do it, but you could use some hakkish trickery with the preprocessor. But then you need a hard limit for the amount of arguments, but one could just set it high enough
And when I wanted test cases for the parser, I did not trust myself to analyze the format strings manually, so I ended up writing a function that created a small .c file with a main function with a single scanf call, compiled it and piped the output to grep and then wc to count the warnings to see how many arguments that format string wanted :D
Have a look here if you're interested/masochists pastebin.com/gWTapsm7
@klutt Did you ever hear about vscanf?
@sideshowbarker BAM! Close voted
@AdrianMole Yep, I know about that. But my goal is to do some wrapper involving that.
02:41
@cigien I was mainly basing that on the fact that pretty much all the answers were for external tools/libraries
@Nick Fair enough. I didn't really look at any of the answers, just the question.
02:59
Omg
I think I finally managed to put it together
Don't know if my sleeping pill helped or not :D
@klutt Please don't give responses like this. It's something we don't allow.
I'm sorry, did you mean man last comment?
@Makyen Or was it that "BAM! Close voted"?
You can mouse over the message or click the arrow on the left (works on mobile) to see which message it was in reply to
Ah, I see
@klutt I meant the one I replied to. At least in the desktop version of chat, in replies there's a small up-left arrow icon at the left of the message. Clicking on that will take you to and highlight the message which is being replied to.
03:05
I apologize. Will not happen again.
np. Thanks.
I was in the mood so to speak
BTW: many/most of us use the Unclosed Request Review Script (URRS), which provides semi-realtime information about the status of the requests in chat, so we know when something has been voted on or closed.
Was coding while I had a few drinks, and then I realized I need to sleep so I took a sleeping pill, and well, the combo is interesting :)
So I'm gonna head to bed bow
Take care, all of you
@klutt Yeah, I know. I understand. It happens. It's just something we don't want to see for a variety of reasons.
@klutt Thanks. You too. Get some good sleep.
 
3 hours later…
 
3 hours later…
08:46
@JeanneDark I think that could easily be salvaged by adding "how can I do that?"
Doesn't it need some more info, like programming language tag?
09:25
@JeanneDark scrapy is a python framework.
I know that. I can't directly edit posts
@tripleee It seems that it's closed now :(
@Scratte by a mod no less, so not going to contest that
@tripleee Why not? They're closing 1000 posts a day I'm guessing this was the 729th.
09:49
@JeanneDark Really, not even a suggestion?
I'm reluctant to suggest edits to questions.
Don't be. :D
3
@JeanneDark Be reluctant. Questions get closed.. and it will be rejected. It's easy to reject your suggestion with the argument that you shouldn't edit a Question that's going to get closed.
The worse that can happen is that it gets rejected. And considering how coffee deprived are reviewers are... just live with it :D
@Scratte That's exactly why I don't do it.
09:53
@Braiam I value JeanneDark's time. Why waste it on an edit that tossed?
If you are worried that a question would get closed... only ~10% of questions are closed.
That's 9 of 10 questions that you miss on improving.
@JeanneDark It seems I have an nonsensical approach to Stack :) Welcome to the club :D
The chances that it gets closed are higher if I flag it and post a request in here though ;)
Well, you said that you seldom edit questions in general, do you post every question you read here? :D
I sometimes have the feeling that I probably should ;)
10:02
@JeanneDark I skip those Questions that are almost fine. Like the one you posted here. It did get an edit though, but was closed anyway. I don't understand why, but that's beside the point. Anyone can infer what the question in the post is.
I also mostly skip
This is another reason to be reluctant. 419 suggested edits in the queue. Some edits take days to get through it. My last one took 5 days.
10:22
Is this spam, or an actual answer to the question that just looks, feels and smells like spam? stackoverflow.com/a/64570650
10:33
@DavidBuck I recently found out that inaction is the best way if you're not sure as action may "shame" you on meta. I'm going to Skip this one. It's impossible to tell.
I had a look at the developer's website but didn't find any names.
It's not an answer. It exists only to promote a product. It's the only post for that account...
if it walks like a duck, swims like a duck...
Isn't that a little conflicting? "It exists only to promote a product" usually means spam. So "not an answer" would be the wrong choice?
Conflicting with what? I think it's spam, and flagged as such.
@yivi we still like to give the new users the benefit of the doubt. If there is no indication that they are actively trying to promote a product beyond what the promotion policy permits, we might abstain from flagging as spam
10:42
Should I roll it back? stackoverflow.com/q/64565623
@Dharman I have done that recently; I think you probably should, as long as you leave an explanation
@Dharman I say leave it.. it's been Answered and no indication that author will react.
I rolled it back and VTC'd
That's fine @tripleee. I think that post is spam. Maybe my flag will be declined. The rejection would annoy me, but I can live with it.
@Dharman And.. they even accepted the Answer.
10:45
Which means we can safely delete the question
@yivi sure, but as a room, we want to avoid mistakes
@Dharman I see :) I just addressed the reason why Question shouldn't be translated. Which is that we cannot know if author is able to respond to interaction. If there is no interaction, the argument is moot no?
sdc watch bestelectricshaver2021\.com
I don't think that smokey listen to those commands here
10:54
@Braiam everybody listens to me, even the bots ...
4
Mmm... it just doesn't give feedback on the room it was running.
that is a feature ;)
Do we 20k delete the post as well?
@Adriaan yes please
11:28
Is this flaggable as NAA?
@Yatin IMHO yes
@Yatin Is there a risk it will be declined? I think so. The text of the image link itself is an attempt to answer.
@Scratte yeah that is why I am a bit weary at flagging that :/
@Yatin Everybody has a fear of the declined flag, I suppose :)
11:53
What should be the tag for this question - https://stackoverflow.com/questions/64421849/issue-configuring-onelogin-sso-with-atlassian-cloud ?
Obvioulsy not [atlassian], it was burninated - https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/351480/finally-we-migrated-from-atlassian
Or... we can just delete it and it's burninated again
@Braiam You can even report posts from other sites in here, although the responses won't show up
What is the process with tag burnination when tag has small amount of questions? 36 questions. I am reading the FAQ and it is not clear whether it is OK just to edit all questions and ask for some help in closing here or should I post Meta request
Morning
@Machavity I was thinking about a new or existing tag for this question instead of [atlassian]
12:11
@VadimKotov I see. Atlassian Cloud is really a hosting service for things like and
That one question was too vague as to what it wanted
Is this answer an NAA? IMO, better suited as comment than answer.
@AmitJoshi barely an answer but not NAA flagable.
@AmitJoshi yep not flaggable... better to leave a comment telling them to add more details...
@Machavity Thanks.
@rene Am I missing something there? It looks like a comment to me
@DalijaPrasnikar FWIW it did have some terrible Qs I cleaned up, so less work if it does reach the retag stage
12:29
@Machavity it has a link and useable terms that suggest it can go as an answer. I don't mind if you convert it to a comment but for us mortals that looks like an answer that an NAA flag gets declined for.
I wouldn't have flagged it either and skipped it in a review queue
@rene Fair enough. I can see why it might get a NAA decline
@Adriaan your advice for whiskey is needed: chat.meta.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/8608773#8608773
@Machavity If mortals come across an answer which is like this (NAA will be declined but barely an answer; should be better as comment), what is recommended action? For now, I simply neglect as there is nothing I can do. Custom flag requesting "please convert to comment" looks very bad choice; most probably, will be rejected as well.
@AmitJoshi You can downvote and vote to delete, given you have enough reputation
12:39
@AmitJoshi If you do take a stab at NAA flagging them, I would leave a comment saying you feel it's a comment. For myself, at any rate, I see convert to comment as "splitting the difference"
@JeanneDark Yes; downvote is obvious. I think delete an answer is only possible after 20K (another 4-5 years).
The problem, as always, is that judging NAA/LQP is an art, not a science
What pushed me over that edge there was the link was to a code example. If an answer links to documentation of, say, a programming function/term, I'd leave it
@Machavity Ok; understood.
@rene tsk tsk, it's whisky in this case. It's clearly Scotch. Only the Irish call their spirit "whiskey" (Ok, and the 'Mericans, but that's usually undrinkable and not even 3 years old when they bottle it)
lol, I stand corrected
13:01
Any Firebase/angular/dart SME here? stackoverflow.com/q/64570598/5211833 is this reopenable now? Code from images was added as text
13:13
@Machavity Thanks for the cleanup. I am writing the Meta post right now, I think most remaining questions just need tag removal.
"kindly give me codes."
@JeanneDark "Open Sesame"
13:29
Actually, it's "open says a-me"
0
Q: Do we really need to [contribute]

Dalija PrasnikarTag contribute has no tag wiki and currently 28 questions. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? Is it unambiguous? Tag does not contribute to questions in any meaningful way. It is ambiguous because some questions are asking about general contribution to open s...

13:48
If a question gets gold-tag-closed incorrectly, who can change the dupe target?
@OrangeDog Any other gold tag badge holder for the Q's tags or a mod
@code11 Surely General Computing?
I gave benefit of doubt and assumed an API connection, but you're probably right
14:51
@NathanOliver actually any gold tag badge holder for any tag can edit them
I tested that out with @Makyen and @Machavity a month or two ago
@Adriaan weird, the "undrinkable" kind sells $4 billion annually compared to the UK/Irish $1 billion annually :-P
@TylerH apparently one cannot discuss taste.
I prefer scotch myself
@TylerH Wait, really? I can edit a question's dupe targets just because I have a gold tag badge, even if the question doesn't have that tag?
15:08
@cigien Yep
@cigien yep
@Machavity Thanks for the link. That's very interesting, I'll have to think about it a bit, but this does seem like an accidental feature. Why bother with the extra step of adding the necessary tag, if I'm deemed qualified to edit the dupe list anyway? Don't bother replying to this if you don't want, I'm just thinking out loud. I'll respond on the meta post if I form a clearer opinion on this.
@cigien It's not a bug, it's a feature ;)
@NathanOliver Indeed :) Just accidental though, it seems. Also, I certainly don't remember reading anywhere that I have this power, and given how recent that meta post is, and the fact that a Mod found it surprising, suggests that this is not a widely known feature :p
16:28
@NathanOliver Why did you reopen this?? It's all well answered in the duplicate I had proposed. The answer at the question just says the same, just with that addition about explicit mention of a memory barrier, but if you have a thread safe implementation that's already obvious.
@πάνταῥεῖ Because the question is asking if the memory barries are needed in his code. The dupe doesn't answer that.
@NathanOliver Indirectly it does :P
Indirectly is not good enough fora dupe
If there's nothing asynchronous, there's no need for memory barriers. But fine ...
^ I flagged the above answer as r/a. Now it is edited. Should I retract my flag?
16:33
@πάνταῥεῖ If I may, I agree with reopening that question. "just with that addition about explicit mention of a memory barrier" makes that arguably a different answer, and "but if you have a thread safe implementation that's already obvious." is clearly not obvious to the OP, and is a reasonable question, and not a dupe.
@Yatin Yeah, probably better. I flagged as NAA.
@janw yea NAA seems reasonable now
Although of course one could interpret posting such statements as rude...
The r/a flag won't be reasonable now though
Very inaccurate too, goto isn't a function.
16:49
Clarification: how strict is the "recent activity" rule for cv-pls requests? There's a C++ post X that just got used as a dupe target, but there's a canonical Y that should be used instead. X should be made a dupe of Y. I would hammer X myself, but it's missing the C++ tag :P Probably why it went unnoticed in the first place :( Most recent activity on X is 15 months ago.
@cigien I think we've opened up to like 6 months old for recent activity
@cigien Well, speaking as not a Room Owner, I would say that the activity on Post X would qualify Post Y as a suitable candidate for this Happy Throng!
... or whatever you make of that after de-bumbling it.
@NathanOliver Yes, that's what the FAQ says. So this is not allowed, correct?
@E_net4flagscomments www.wow?
16:54
@AdrianMole www.wow.wow:8303/wow
Asking for a gold-hammer to re-target a dupe is not a formal request, though.
... assuming that's all you want. No reopening, etc.
@AdrianMole True, but it also against the rules as it subverts the sites mechanics
Sorry - Don't wish to subvert any mechanics.
... how about subverting engineers?
I prefer sending dupe-related requests to a more specific chatroom (i.e. Rust if it's about dupe-hammering a question).
Hmm, mildly annoying :p It wouldn't be an issue if relevant posts just got automatically tagged with c++. Oh, well...
@E_net4flagscomments Ah, that's a possibility. Don't those rooms have similar policies re this kind of thing? Seems a bit like co-ordinated CVing to me. Which is obviously ok in this room, within the rules of the room.
16:59
@cigien Other than the usual CoCs, we've been just following common sense there.
Other rooms are moderated far less strictly than this one. Apparently, here we have power that CMs don't want to be abused.
@AdrianMole Oh yes, we certainly do have a lot of power, and I'm glad we're scrutinized. I'll try one of the other rooms then. Thanks for the help everyone :)
I suppose giving a link so that I could add the C++ tag would be considered subversion?
@cigien "Recent activity" is intended to loosely mean "activity which brings the question to the attention of a wider audience". It's not restricted to only things which qualify to change the question's "active" date (as displayed at the top of the question). So, basically, yes, posting a cv-pls for a question which was very recently used as a dup-target by another question is intended to be OK.
OTOH, I'd have a hard time saying that the fact that a 5 year old question was used as a dup-target 4 months ago qualifies as "recent activity".
@AdrianMole Making a request, explicit or implied, to edit in a tag in order for the question to be dup-hamered is explicitly not permitted.
@Makyen I guess. But it seems here that the matter is not about hammering, per se, but about simply editing the dupe-target on an already closed question. Still, I shall refrain from further antagonism.
17:06
an-tag-onism
13
@Makyen Ok, that makes sense. And it applies to the post I'm talking about, it was used as a dupe target half an hour ago (I'll post the link here as well). Follow up, it's still not ok for me to ask for a retag, and then hammer it myself, correct? I should retag it myself, and then post a cv-pls request here instead?
@cigien No, asking for a retag in order to be able to use your dup-hammer is not permitted.
@Makyen Understood.
Good moaning all
17:14
Recent activity: used as target here
@Yatin There seems to be a line by line translation from spanish to english. Would editing out the spanish make the post ok? (assuming the post was otherwise fine, which it's not).
Has anyone been invited to fill in a downvote survey? I've given 205 downvotes since the survey started, which has to be 205 more than the average SO user, and haven't seen anything.
Wow, there even is a tag...
@cigien I can't understand the little English there is... I would still say it needs details and clarity :/
@DavidBuck I was
@Yatin No, of course. It was a hypothetical. If the post is good, and contains an english translation (written by the OP) of all the non-english text, simply editing it out would be fine, right?
17:22
@cigien Yeah I think that would do
@cigien Yes, I'd think so.
@Yatin @janw Sounds good. Thanks :)
@JeanneDark Good. At least it's actually working.
@Braiam BTW, this is a list of question with only the , in case someone wants to spend 15 minutes doing something for the site :D
@Braiam cv-pls?
17:28
@Yatin It's a query about questions with only the tag.
@Braiam Oh...
There even has been a burnination request, but it looks like nothing has been done since then
@janw That's why I prefer act first, ask questions later
^ will that come under "About professional server- or networking-related infrastructure administration" or "About general computing hardware and software"?
@Yatin Anything that isn't paid for, isn't on topic for serverfault.
oh... got it :)
17:36
You mention personal cloud and they would pretty much close the question immediately
@Makyen Seeing as the request hasn't been trashed (yet), I take it I followed protocol. If so, does it make sense to update the FAQ-11.1.3? Or is it just another corner case, and not worth it?
@cigien While I'm not protesting this cv-pls, that the dup was deleted a couple of minutes after it was closed would argue towards the "activity" not counting. We should ignore that for this request, but in the future, I'd say that the thing which caused the "activity" needs to not be deleted.
@cigien The FAQ could be updated to be more clear as to what counts as activity.
@Makyen Oh, fascinating. Along the same lines, if the post were not deleted, but the dupe targets were edited to add the canonical (as I did), would that discount the post as "active"? Similarly, what if the post was removed from the target list entirely? Would that be discounted as "activity"?
@Makyen Ok, I was thinking something along the lines of "... activity within the last 6 months. Recent activity is not necessarily the time mentioned on the post, but could also include...", followed by the obligatory "at the ROs' discretion". But now it seems the list of exceptions needs more careful thought than I initially realized :p
@DavidBuck I got it as well (and filled it out)
17:53
@cigien All debatable edge cases. I'd say if the dup-target list still included the question which you wanted to cv-pls, then it would count, as long as the question wasn't deleted.
@Makyen That sounds reasonable. Jolly good fun, all these edge cases :) I'm going to go back on my suggestions for clarity in the FAQ on this, at least until I have a clue on how to add words to the FAQ that clarify this in a useful way.
0
Q: Ambiguity reduces the [PV] of this tag to zero

Daniel WiddisThe pv tag (32 questions) seems to have been created to address questions associated with the (pv) command, and the 5 oldest questions related to this relate to pipe viewer / progress bar questions. However, more recently, it has lost its specificity. The questions break down: 16 questions (50...

@cigien Note that "Fun" of any kind (most especially that of the "jolly good" variety) is forbidden!
@AdrianMole Duly noted :) Straight face from here on out ;)
18:06
@AdrianMole Unless you consider closing questions fun ;)
It's a Labour-of-Love!
18:19
^ The answer seems to be fine, but is the question on-topic?
^ I marked the answer as fp but yeah the question confuses me too
19:05
Short poll: Is it so, that all of us had a strong belief in the 'ole saying "There isn't such thing like a silly question." until we met our 1st one at Stack Overflow?
:P
@πάνταῥεῖ I've never seen one. I've a lot of statements though :)
You're blessed :)
Maybe I'm just very tolerant or something :) Or perhaps more likely, I ask silly questions myself, so I empathize..
:50800894 when I see that questions asking for code snippets and "best practices" get 3 up-votes within 1 hour, I wonder if I'm on a sinking boat...
19:18
Drawing straws ...
@πάνταῥεῖ I think that question is silly.
XD Well, more a thought in form of a rethoric question
Rhetorical and silly aren't mutually exclusive.
@AdrianMole Does that mean you're silly too?
@AdrianMole Sure
19:22
@Scratte No - but I am frequently rhetorical.
@AdrianMole Are you really?
@πάνταῥεῖ Do you mind if I ask you for a favor?
@πάνταῥεῖ Thanks. I see you used the debugger target on this question. The OP knows which functions are being called, they just want to know why. Using a debugger would not help them at all. Could I request you to be a little more conservative with that target? Perhaps using it primarily for questions where it's clear that the OP's issue would be trivially solved by using a debugger would be a reasonable strategy?
Will, mind more in future.
19:30
@πάνταῥεῖ As Richard Feynman cleverly explained it all depends on the level of experience. How familiar is the person asking the questions with the topic? Do you have enough details to answer the question at the requested level of knowledge? How much explaining does it require to clearly answer the question?
I would argue that there are no stupid questions, there are only ones which lack details or focus. In terms of Stack Overflow, there are also unuseful questions; questions that even if answered wouldn't be helpful to more people than the OP. The person asking the question lacked certain knowledge that might be obvious to other beginners in that area of expertise.
@πάνταῥεῖ Thank you very much, I appreciate that :)
@πάνταῥεῖ There are questions that we aren't ready to ask.
e.g. "What is C++" is not a stupid question, but it's also not very useful to keep on SO. You could ask the same question about every other programming language, but such information should be listed on Wikipedia.
There are also questions that we are asking to the wrong person/in the wrong place.
@Dharman Well, arguable truly. Let's take that kind of question, where the OP asks in help of how to fix a a specific compiler error message, where the error message contains explicit and even detailed instructions how to fix it, and it's verbatim cited in the question?
19:36
Do they know what a compiler is? Do they know what each of the words in the error message represents? Do they know anything about programming? If these details are not present in the question you can close it as lacking clarity
Yes, sure. There's so much background missing, that they're even not ready in doing what they're trying to do there.
Or, even worse: Been tasked to do it.
I wonder is anyone ever asked "What is Java?" on coffee.se
That's why questions needs to be "practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development". It's rarely a practical problem explaining what a compiler is, while explaining the behavior of a compiler reading code is.
@Scratte The correct answer probably would be: A special strain of coffee, coming from Java.
@Braiam I wasn't referring to short or code-only posts that show up in Low Quality Posts. I'm referring to cases where reviewers leave comments saying those aren't answers, and then explicitly mark to delete them. (I often leave comments encouraging a contributor to edit their answer to provide an explanation, but I don't vote to delete short or code-only answers—assuming, of course, they make an effort to answer the question.)
19:41
@πάνταῥεῖ I would probably have added something in the body of the post too that would have asked for more details :)
@πάνταῥεῖ Follow up question: What is Java?
2
An insula in the south east pacific.
@Braiam: Unfortunately, even some high-rep, very active reviewers frequently ignore the plea for sanity.
@JeremyCaney I'm just informing you that the system itself doesn't consider them answer either. I think you are missing a qualifier in "is not an answer" that is kind of implied: is not an answer that we look/accept
@JeremyCaney Have you got some examples?
19:43
@JeremyCaney See above :D
@Braiam If they are not put in the Low Quality Posts queue due to being put there wrongly before the change, then the system does consider them to be Answers.
@Dharman: Not on hand, but I'd be happy to start collecting some, if it's useful.
@JeremyCaney BTW, in case it wasn't noticed: I actively reject that post and how it's interpreted.
@Braiam That is the best way to preserve a site. Having no consensus of how do to things and no common goal, isn't it?
@Braiam It's not our role as reviewers to discard established criteria in order to enforce our own personal visions of the site. As that post says, as well as many others like it, the downvote button is for assessing usefulness. The NAA flag is exclusively for posts that make no effort to answer.
5
19:49
@JeremyCaney "our own personal visions of the site" that's kinda the thing. The writer of that post did exactly that. Shog, which was the original writer, said that those posts should be deleted.
If I ask you for an apple that can be made into a pie while maintaining a complex flavor and holding its shape... And you give me a Red Delicious... That's a wrong answer, @Marti. If you give me an orange, you're not even wrong; you haven't answered at all. We can rank every apple on earth according to its suitability for an apple pie, but there is no useful score for an orange when it comes to this purpose. Similarly, no amount of downvoting will turn "I have this problem too, halp?" into even a wrong answer. — Shog9 Feb 23 '16 at 18:10
@JeremyCaney Are you talking about NAA flag or LQP review? They are different things
Should I poke a stick in a hornet nest?
@πάνταῥεῖ Of course, granted that you are prepared to the consequences.
@Braiam: I may have lost the thread; I had thought we had moved on to talking about short or code-only answers that automatically get flagged by the system and end up in the Low Quality Posts queue. I agree that the direction on oranges remains inconsistent, which is why I raised the issue originally
Learning is great, learning from failure is better!
It will last.
19:53
@πάνταῥεῖ Some people want to learn to fly.
They can do?
@Dharman: I'm referring to short or code-only answers that are voted for deletion in the Low Quality Posts queue because, allegedly, they don't answer the question.
It all depends. Can you safely assume that the answer is a solution? If so then you should press Looks OK or Edit. If not then you can delete it as low quality answer
@πάνταῥεῖ What can they learn then? Some failures are permanent. Like a declined flag :)
19:55
@JeremyCaney But it is the main point: not everything that seems like an answer is an accepted answer: quality matters.
@Scratte I am a buddhist.
In other words, you need to clear a bar so that your answer isn't deleted. Posting an answer isn't a right, it's a privilege you earn by posting quality relevant content.
@πάνταῥεῖ I am not. So for me it's permanent. I guess for you.. you may become a blurry flower :)
@πάνταῥεῖ I prefer learning from someone else failure :D
19:56
@Dharman I'm definitely referring to cases where it is a legitimate attempt to provide a solution, and is otherwise understandable (i.e., not gibberish). I'm not making any technical assessment as to whether or not it's a correct solution; if I feel strongly that it's incorrect or unuseful, I'll downvote.
@πάνταῥεῖ I chuckled a little :D
@JeremyCaney I think you're being met with opposing forces. I do not think it's right to delete any attempt of an Answer in that queue. Unless it's clearly not an answer, it should not be deleted. Not everyone shares that opinion, but I believe it's against the message of the sanity post.
4
@Braiam Great
00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

« first day (2533 days earlier)      last day (1508 days later) »