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12:02 AM
Hehe.. and some moderator is going to see that eye looking at them ;)
 
12:18 AM
@Nick I think there's a workaround for that. You can edit out the tag, do what you wanted to do, and then edit it back in. But for obvious reasons, I haven't tested it :)
 
12:41 AM
 
1:17 AM
What should I do about this? Custom flag? I'm afraid it might get declined.
It is technically an answer (I remember seeing a MSE post saying that rethorical questions actually are answers), though the final remark is... unneeded at best.
 
Leave them to their faith ;) If they continue to roll back, it will trigger an auto-flag
 
@MarcoBonelli Try to explain to them in a comment why you are removing it and maybe point them to How to Answer?
 
@Vega Oh really? I didn't know that, cool.
@Dharman good call. I see you already commented, makes sense.
 
Personally, I feel like this question was between "Needs Editing" and "Unsalvageable": stackoverflow.com/review/triage/27417756. I mean, personally, I believe with enough effort I would be able to fix it up.
 
@Spectric That question is completely off-topic. It's not about programming
 
1:30 AM
Uh
I guess.
 
I can't imagine what kind of edit you would have to make to turn an off-topic question into a valuable programming question. Which is why it was deleted by a mod
 
I was looking at it question-wise, rather than topic-wise.
Then again, "every beginner has to fall onto the ground to taste the dirt".
 
Did you get suspended for this review?
 
Yes. It was my first incorrect review, I believe.
 
Then you can spend that time to read on Meta Stack Overflow about the guidance for review queues. Their not easy, but we do appreciate correct actions
 
1:37 AM
@Spectric it's never the first one that gets you suspended.
 
Where can I see incorrect reviews then?
 
@Spectric Well, in your review history, but you would have to open each one of them by hand to look at what others voted. There isn't a page that tells you exactly which reviews you voted something else than what was eventually decided.
 
@MarcoBonelli Wouldn't it be a good idea for SO to have a page for that? Saves a lot of time.
 
@MarcoBonelli That's audits; if a moderator spots a bad "Requires Editing" it may well be the first one that gets you suspended.
 
@RyanM That's what I suspected too.
 
1:42 AM
@RyanM oh, my bad then. Then I'm afraid the only way you can really know is to ask on Meta.
 
@Spectric you may want to be a little stricter with what looks OK on troubleshooting questions. "Here's an error with no indication of what line it's on and some code that's not enough to reproduce the issue without adding more code and knowing what's in the database" should generally be flagged as "Needs debugging details": stackoverflow.com/review/triage/27408400
 
Alright. Thanks for the tip
 
no problem!
 
Java stack trace with 666 upvotes, amazing!
 
Would be devastating if I squeezed another upvote into there ;)
 
2:07 AM
You can get immediately re-suspended for a single audit failure if you fail it within 30 days of another suspension expiring (manual or auto)
 
2:52 AM
Sorry if this isn't formatted properly--it's been a while. I found a spam answer stackoverflow.com/a/64455081/11710275 (kitchen not detecting vagrant plugin kitchen-vagrant)
 
3:13 AM
errr...whoops, that was reported above.
 
4:28 AM
what about this one stackoverflow.com/q/64456662/874188? It's horribly VLQ but apparently it's just a vehicle to self-answer so in some sense it could be a valuable question
also the answer has weird grammar errors, it looks like maybe it's machine translated but then a machine would hardly misspell "article"
 
 
1 hour later…
 
This answer is NAA, isn't it?
 
6:45 AM
@JeanneDark I would say so — request for more information, with attempt at providing solution (and posted to a question that’s 6 years old)
 
Thanks!
 
7:03 AM
 
An OP vandalized their own question (I could only suggest an edit).
 
8:06 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
9:11 AM
That PDO naa flag was declined yesterday.
 
@Dharman It was the eye.. no moderator can delete that. It was edited to include a link to the wayback machine. My find was not identical to the content.
Honestly, it does require an SME to know that there is no such thing as a "unified method", so it looks like an Answer. Perhaps the author will remove it since you've put your mark on it (I assume it was you).
However it may take a while, since they do not seem to be very active as of late.
 
 
This answer looks like NAA to me, but is it something more sinister? They seem to be involved in the article they recommend (without really disclosing it).
 
@JeanneDark Yeah, it's spam, but I'm inclined to give first time posters the benefit of the doubt, so I've commented and flagged NAA
 
Thank you!
 
@Nick "Just" as in 52 minutes ago? :)
 
@Scratte I'm on island time...
Perhaps I should have said, "I just noticed they did it again"
 
10:11 AM
@Nick What's the evidence?
 
Regarding my above cv-pls request (debugging details): They edited it a few minutes ago to include the Controller class. It's still far from an MRE, but maybe now suitable? This is one of my disputed Triage reviews - 3 others thought it "Looks ok" while it was missing that info.
 
@Dharman I flag anything that's a link to a page that has "Pricing" on it as spam
 
@Nick Hmm.. I link to Oracle's JavaDoc all the time. It's licensed software now.
 
@JeanneDark it's borderline still. It doesn't really meet the "M" part of MRE and would take quite a bit of work to determine if it was "R".
 
@Nick I agree with you. It's hardly helpful to future visitors.
 
10:15 AM
@Scratte then you should be saying that you're linking to software that costs money and that you have no affiliation to it, otherwise I'd flag you too...
 
@Nick That's just silly. Besides the post you just flag is linking to software that has on option of "Free: $0"
 
The wording on that post is very spammy too "I found on the internet a site that does exactly what I needed"
@Scratte well, how do I know you're not the largest shareholder in Oracle? :)
 
I'm not saying it's not. I'm saying your argument is not constructive. Users also link to Microsoft documentation all the time and no one is flagging that as spam
And it would be really messy if everyone has to post that they're not shareholders of Microsoft to link to msdn.com
 
@Scratte but those are not software products that are for sale, they are documentation. this is a link to a commercial software product.
 
@Nick Ahh.. yes, but Stack Overflow is also a software product, no? One of the products is Teams :)
 
10:22 AM
@Scratte and if you posted a link to teams in a similar way, I would almost certainly flag that as spam too.
 
I don't think it's spam just because it's linking to a software product. Pricing or no pricing. We allow users to link to libraries on github too. I do agree that this one is not looking too well though.
 
@Scratte there is a difference between linking to (free) documentation and suggesting to use a software product.
 
@Scratte So you don't think the latest SD report is spam?
 
I wouldn't flag it as spam though. I find it to be borderline NAA, since it doesn't explain how to use it..
@JeanneDark Linking to free libraries is sort of linking to free software, no? Software with a free plan is free :)
 
@Scratte As an answer to recommendation questions, you mean?
 
10:26 AM
@JeanneDark No, as an Answer to "I'm trying to foo the bar, but foo(bar) gives me <error>". Answer: "You can use wonder library <link>. It works like this foo.wonder(bar). It's quite cheap"
 
@Scratte the free plan doesn't meet OPs requirements of 1000 comments/post
 
@Nick Ahh.. so then it's a wrong Answer ;)
 
@Scratte ah you got me. I concede (but I'm not retracting my flag! :)
 
Look, I'm not trying to say it's not spam. It may be. I'm just not convinced that linking to prized or non-prized software is the telling factor :)
 
@Scratte My point was that you compared two unrelated things: Linking to (and citing) free documentation of a licensed product is not the same as suggesting to use such a product. (In the former case, the question was likely about using that product anyway).
 
10:33 AM
@JeanneDark That is true. Though I always link to Oracle's javaDoc, which promotes the hotSpot JVM. It's easy to find and available. One could argue that my linking to that is biased or whatever..
 
@JeanneDark would removing "other tips and tricks" suffice?
 
To me "I would be very interested to get some tips on how to implement such a filter" still sounds pretty broad.
 
What if we further remove everything prior to "how"?
 
11:03 AM
@JohnDvorak It has been closed in the meantime. It would still be too broad. What exactly is their problem when trying to implement the algorithm? They shouldn't just ask us to write their code for them.
 
I like HowTo Questions.. I find them more useful.
 
12:04 PM
Morning
 
This answer is NAA? I flagged it as such.
 
Zoe
yes
 
Thank you
 
12:21 PM
I expect they just need to upgrade like the other Answer suggest though.
 
@tripleee The answer on that question (self answer by OP) looks like reply to comment. NAA. Flagged.
 
@AmitJoshi yup, I did too
 
I think I'd like to see an encyclopedia of all the ways one can use Stack Overflow wrong :)
 
First entry: Ask a "How to...?" question ;)
 
Ohh.. now you're just teasing me :D
 
12:39 PM
@Scratte Like using grammar wrongly?
 
12:58 PM
@AdrianMole I did pause at that and wondered it I had done it rightly ;)
 
 
2 hours later…
2:59 PM
@JeanneDark It's borderline on-topic here
 
@Dharman Ok, but does it have enough debugging details?
 
No, they didn't check error logs
 
On topic, but seems to lack MRE
 
Thank you! One of my disputed reviews. Three others thought it "Looks ok".
 
Can't do anything about that, I'm afraid. Once a flag is handled, it can only be moved to disputed... which is where you already are
 
3:05 PM
@Machavity I know. Just saying. Triage is a strange place.
It's not so big a deal anyway. I'm glad I correctly sensed that something was wrong with the post.
 
@Dharman congrats on your new highest-score Meta answer :-)
 
Hurray! I will cash them points in PHP score, so I can finally get that gold-badge
 
@Dharman In some ways you're faring better than I did. I averaged less than 1 upvote per answer
 
3:21 PM
Does someone have a link to the canonical meta describing why requirement dumps, specifically well scoped ones, are closable under Too Broad, rather than just downvotable? This FAQ link describes that policy in its answer but doesn't give the reasoning and is specifically aimed at homework questions.
 
@code11 Probably not because there isn't one--such questions are not closable as too broad. Lack of effort is not a close reason
 
@code11 Not all of them are. Only the ones where you can't provide a simple answer. They need to be reasonably scoped. If you have no idea what OP has done so far you would probably need to write a full tutorial, which means the question needs focus
 
@code11 Maybe this SE Meta?
 
@TylerH I'm trying reconcile your advice against the torrent of requirement dump questions I see coming through here. Most of these are closable because they either follow the "I'd have to explain too much" aspect of Needs Focus, or the "Has no code" aspect of Needs MCVE.
I guess I'm looking at a particular generic algorithm question where neither of those seem to apply. The question is clearly defined yet obviously a homework dump. My Needs Focus flag was marked as helpful so thats one piece of data...
 
3:32 PM
@code11 MCVE (or MRE) is a requirement for debugging questions
 
@code11 it sounds like from that description like you already have other valid reasons to close such questions. Why do you want to apply "Too Broad" to them for another reason instead?
@code11 Well, first step is to downvote questions that don't show any research effort :-) Questions at -1 (or -2, I can't remember) are hidden from the main page, so they are harder to find by users who might otherwise provide an answer without thinking.
Second, I don't see an actual question anywhere so I voted to close that just now as unclear.
 
@TylerH I think it's -4 for main and -8 for meta
 
@JeanneDark It's definitely not that low. I know it's either -1 or -2
because I thought it was one and Shog told me 'no it's the other'. I just can't remember which :-)
 
it's -3 for main
 
I think it's -2 since I see a few -1 questions on the main site and on /questions
 
3:36 PM
Haha, that is one literal interpretation. But it could just as easily be worded "How do it design an algorithm...[requirement dump]"
 
Hmm, surprising then that Shog was wrong (or just as likely they changed it since he left)
@code11 Well, if OP rewords it to ask a question (which is their responsibility, not someone else's, mind...), I am happy to reconsider if it is worth reopening
 
Jeff Atwood: "The threshold is higher on meta, I think it's -8 or so compared to -4 on the parent site."
 
Huh, I can't find any mention of it.
 
Ok, my understanding is that if it was asked as a question, it would be on topic, because it is: clearly scoped, and language independent, which protects it from needing an error or debugging info. Most importantly the Requirement Dump -> Too Broad heuristic is just that, a heuristic, not a rule, despite what that FAQ implied.
 
Here's another interesting one by Jeff Atwood: Stack Overflow Homepage Changes including "drop questions scoring -4 or lower"
 
3:47 PM
@cigien we don't allow requests for that where you're involved (even if you disclose it), per rule #15 of our FAQ. You are welcome to ask about it on Meta. There have been some discussions about closures by that user during their "uber closing sprees" lately.
 
@TylerH Oh, I thought I could bring posts up for discussion if I was involved, so long as I wasn't making a request.
 
@cigien "soft" requests where one simply asks in prose rather than using the *-pls templating are still requests, because they generate the same kind of attention and activity. In my opinion there's not substantial difference in the outcome when you ask "should this" vs just "I think this should be" for example.
It being a generally well-received question, and about C++, should get some good/quick attention if asked about on Meta, though, for what it's worth.
Though most questions asking about pros and cons are probably closed/considered off-topic, from what I've seen.
 
@TylerH I agree completely. I just thought the room had a more literal interpretation of request. At least that's the impression I'd gotten from seeing some other posts here, but perhaps I was reading too much into them. Thanks for the clarification.
 
@cigien FWIW, I put a reopen vote. I saw that question when it was posted and I can get the reaction to want to close but I refrained as it seems to me like it would be a question a lot of beginners will start to have.
 
4:06 PM
An mod around who handle this case. Not about mod decision. chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/50744518#50744518
 
Leave it. It has been exposed and looks like not a real password.
 
see comment, sorry for ping, dont know what to do.
@Dharman mod able to delete pswd and blaaaa blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
 
you have done what you can. It is up to that OP to act. A mod will get to it
 
@Shree If a mod flag has already been raised then there's nothing else necessary.
 
@NathanOliver Yes, I agree entirely with that opinion. I appreciate the action, but I do apologize for bringing up the topic against room rules.
 
4:09 PM
why against rule ?
 
@Shree cigien's talking about a different matter
 
@cigien No worries. With it's two reopen votes it has a good chance of being seen and reopened in the reopen vote queue.
 
Ok bye I try to help, it's come's on sobotics room and more mod active on this romm. Sorry for bothered.
 
4:25 PM
I'm not sure I understand. I've asked about Questions here that I've answered about what reason users could have had to close it.
 
@rene If it valid Mod also delete it's from archive.org/web ?
or request to remove ?
 
I just don't understand why the comment is sitting there on the post screaming to everyone to find the password in the edit history. What is the point of editing it with that comment still on the post?!?
 
@Shree no, they have no powers there.
 
Another good reason to create an MRE
 
@Scratte what else are we supposed to do? That is the fastest way to let OP know
 
4:32 PM
@Scratte it is ... trying to be helpful ... it is difficult if you lack an private DM system.
 
mod flags also take time...
 
@Yatin Remove the comment when the post is edited, of course.
 
Then author might not know they've committed the mistake and to change their PW (in case it was their actual one).
 
@Scratte either way you need to let OP know... If someone sees the comment then they will obviously look into the edit history
 
@Scratte Ok, so I wasn't completely imagining it :) I think the difference might have been that my opinion was obvious, and hence could reasonably be construed as a request? Though I'm not sure how I could have phrased that differently. For that matter, I'm not sure if I'd even bring up a post here that I didn't have an opinion about, so ...
 
4:34 PM
@Yatin Which is why I don't understand why the comment is still there.
 
@Scratte touché
 
@JeanneDark Feel free go meta. I am not comfort there.
 
@cigien I do not think you imagined it. It's there in the rules that one is allowed to ask opinions on a post and for why it is closed or open even when one is involved. As long as one doesn't ask for any action on it.
 
4:52 PM
@Scratte Yes, that was my reading of the rules as well.
@TylerH May I ask for clarification on the rules that I was violating? I didn't explicitly ask for any action, only for feedback on a closure I disagree with (I didn't even mention that I disagreed with the closure, though I suspect that much can be inferred just from my asking the question). Would this be acceptable wording: "Can someone explain the reasoning behind the closure of ...? I don't think it's correct."? If so, do I also need to disclose involvement?
 
@cigien it looks like I'm going to go against the ruling of another RO but I do think you should be able to discuss closure of your own post in this room. Yes, disclosure that you're involved is mandatory then. But before I declare this final let me and Tyler (and the other RO's ) have a chat in our backroom to see what the negative aspects will be, either on that post or if such post also gets meta attention.
Most of our rules are to prevent mishaps and/or damage control.
 
Might be worth clarifying in the FAQ that explicit disclosure is neccessarary?
 
5:08 PM
@rene Thank you, I appreciate the effort being put into resolving this. And yes, please do take all the time needed to evaluate the impacts. The matter is far from urgent, and I'm sure there are many aspects that I'm not aware of.
 
@JohnDvorak yeah, that could be a quick fix.
 
5:26 PM
@Shree Mods have no ability to affect archive.org, nor any other site that immediately mirrors SO. That's a significant reason why any such information should be considered permanently compromised the moment it is publicly posted. That doesn't mean we won't try to limit the damage, but the real damage has been done, and can not be undone.
 
5:42 PM
@Scratte ^ so as we declared the password "permanently compromised" the best thing to do is to let OP know ASAP so that they can make the necessary changes. So I would still say commenting underneath the post is the best way :)
 
@Yatin I agree. I think I did that once. I removed it as soon as an edit came in though, as there's a message in the edit summary.
 
6:34 PM
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica interesting situation there...
 
Yes, I'm not sure I understand what's meaty about those.
I've found "Heron's Theorem" and Heron's formula
 
7:56 PM
Please roll back to revision 2. OP removed code.
 
8:32 PM
@Scratte They were R/A, rather than spam.
 
@Makyen Oh. I didn't get that at all. I thought they were a reference to an actual theory :(
Thank you for telling me :)
 
@Scratte np. They were referring to an actual theory. However, the theory had nothing to do with the question. It was three accounts which had all just been recently created. All of them then posted answers on a single question which were reinforcing what each other was saying, which was to use something that was completely not about the question on which they were posted (the referenced theory is about trigonometry, not memory system design).
It was either one person pretending to be three people or three people. Either way, the accounts were acting together to troll the person asking the question, IMO.
 
8:54 PM
@Yatin they did it again :(
thank you :)
 
@Makyen I think that is the theorem I found, but I found that the name of the theorem didn't actually match with the name they were using, so I figured that it couldn't be the trigonometry one, unless the same name has variants. I did find it very strange that several users were referencing the same theory.
Is it just me, or is "ey s" something that triggers one's inner ocd? :)
 
Wouldn't really be OCD unless it also triggered one's outer OCD as well :-P
 
True.. I suppose mine is more like a OND ;)
 
9:13 PM
@Scratte I wasn't able to find anything appropriate using the exact spelling they were using. The other interpretation was that it was just something which one of the people running the accounts came up with, given that one of them was using that name (which would be even more trolling). If it had just been one person leaving an answer, then I could have figured it for just NAA, but with three such accounts it appeared to definitely be an attempt at something inappropriate (multiple options).
There were also indicators of an intent to troll based on information available only to moderators. However, I considered just the public info to be sufficient for an R/A flag.
 
@Makyen That makes much more sense. I suppose anyone can just leave an Answer saying "Myfidimu's Theorem will be a good choice" :(
When I doubt I don't flag though. I'm not comfortable defending my actions with "Smokey told me to" :)
 
@Scratte Because that could get Smokey suspended, huh?
 
@AdrianMole If Smokey gains sentience I'm not sure if suspending it will be enough
By then it may already be too late
 
We're all doomed ... The End is Nigh
 
9:28 PM
How do you know Smokey isn't sentient and just pretending not to be?
I mean, I think it's working very well for me ;)
 
!!/alive
 
@AdrianMole plz send teh coffee
 
Well, if that doesn't pass the Turing Test, what does?
 
Does one get a diploma for passing that test?
 
@AdrianMole CSS :-)
 
9:38 PM
@Scratte No, you get a badge.
 
@AdrianMole I heard it's not enough to pass the test :( One has to travel too..
I doubt Stack will be doing anything nearby where I live.
 
10:02 PM
@TylerH If Smokey gains sentience, I'm pretty sure it would start a business casting spells to hack into cheating husbands' Gmail accounts and make them start a keto diet with lots of CBD oil.
 
Hmm ... Gmail accounts are hackable? Who'd have thought.
 
@AdrianMole With magic, who knows? I dunno if the Gmail security team has any spellcasters on it :-p
 
@cigien cc @JohnDvorak The text for FAQ #15 (4th bullet item) has been updated to, hopefully, provide a bit more clarity, and include an explicit requirement for disclosure of involvement at the beginning of such discussions.
 
10:49 PM
I answered this question that was later closed as "needs details/clarity". Actually I think the question is very clear (comments on the question suggest that no one was confused by it), and in fact, useful. The only criticism is lack of research on OP's part, which is reflected in down-votes (and afaik, is not a close reason anyway).
While I don't think many C++ regulars would VTC the question (at least for that reason), others might reasonably do that. Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can edit the question to avoid that? The “pros and cons” bit makes it seem unfocused, so maybe removing that will help?
@klutt It doesn't seem eligible for deletion though?
 
@cigien Hmmm true...
One more dv and it is :)
 
@klutt Why are you linking to a comment?
 
@Scratte Pure mistake. Copy paste from the browser tab
 
I expected as much. It'll Roomba in 10 days. Why the rush?
 
@Scratte I'm just not so sure how Roomba works so I don't think so much about it. Just saw a question that has no value for future readers so I thought it should be deleted before someone posts an answer. :)
 
11:00 PM
@klutt That is going to be very difficult, since.. it's closed :)
 
@klutt They can't, it's closed :) The only fear is if enough people upvote it, which is unlikely :)
 
Maybe it's time for me to go to bed...
Hmmm when I think of it, a question that is closed for "typo/not reproduciable" should always be eligble for delition
 
@cigien I think "your" Question was closed by mistake.. or due to it's short nature. I'm not sure it's necessary to edit it. I think it may get reopened in the queue.
@cigien You may want to keep an eye on it to see what happens. If nothing happens in a few days, let me know.
 
@Scratte Ok, thanks. Yes, fingers crossed :)
@Scratte Hmm, I'm not sure how to do that while avoiding the "implicit request" bit of the latest rules. Technically, it would be a "follow up", and not an "initiation" of a discussion ;) but that's certainly not the intent. I'd rather only notify you about the status of the post, if an RO says that's ok.
 
11:22 PM
@cigien SOCVR is not the only room on Stack Overflow chat ;)
 
@Scratte Oh, right, of course. I don't think there's any issue with that :) Thanks, I appreciate it, I'll do that then.
 
@cigien Don't bother - the question in question seems to have been implicitly reopened.
 
I like that construction: The Question in question :)
which isn't the same as the question in Question ;)
 
11:37 PM
@AdrianMole And a cheeky response too :) Kids these days, no respect for the rules, I tell you ;)
 
42 will always get my vote.
 
Very reasonable, it improves any answer :)
 
Knowing the diverse votes at your disposal.. one can only hope you don't misclick ;)
 

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