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7:00 PM
Comment-locking is still 'new' so I think there's still a degree of uncertainty around what it does or does not prevent. But it would require 20K+ to delete-vote, anyway, so I can't test it out.
 
@janw Delete link is not disabled
 
@Vega - Do you see a "delete" button? I see a "del-pls" but that's from a user-script and not "official."
^ ninja'd
 
:) Sorry, should have been more clear
 
@AdrianMole You need to get 610 more rep to see a delete button on questions which have not yet been closed for > 2 days. :;
 
7:14 PM
@Makyen TylerH has made a confident prediction of when that will happen. But I'm not as sure...
... one good question/answer can make all the difference, though!
 
Tch, I missed the drama :(
 
@Braiam I'm sure there will be another along soon enough
 
@Machavity About what? That "eyes without a face" was perfect until Billy decided to make a electric guitar solo at the later half?
 
There seems to have been plenty of dramata here lately.
 
@AdrianMole I'll keep a weather eye out for any good questions so I can have @NathanOliver answer them before you see them ;-)
 
excelent
 
@TylerH Well, other than the slight 'advantage' I sometimes have by being in a time-zone 6 or 7 hours ahead of him, Nathan doesn't really need your help (or anyone's) to do that! :)
 
Log Entry #491: They still haven't discovered my purpose here
 
Oh - I write one of those every quarter.
 
8:19 PM
Same entry each time?
 
It's a rare occurrence that combines a glitch in the time machine and déjà vu. You're not actually doing it every quarter. You just think you do :D
 
@Catija is the scale hours?
 
If the question is closed with negative score, and there exists an accepted answer with negative score, will it roomba?
 
the accepted answer will block roomba, score doesn't matter
 
But it doesn't block SOCVR! Link!
 
8:28 PM
@AdrianMole Yep, pretty much... but who the "they" is sometimes changes. ;)
 
hehe
 
@rene I don't have time to do it that often. Yearly quarters. :P
 
:D
 
8:46 PM
Are there rules about community managers not being moderators like handling flags and closing Questions?
 
@Scratte Aren't all community managers mods too? I know not all employees are mods, but CMs mostly are
 
@Dharman Yes, but just because they can, doesn't mean there no rule about it.
 
Of course you have to know what you are moderating so for example Catija doesn't do much moderation on SO because she is not a very experienced in programming.
 
I think CMs do a fair amount of moderating on some of the smaller, newer sites; especially when they don't (yet) have their own elected mods.
 
Sure, but if Catija read "the manual", then it would be fine?
 
8:49 PM
... They would, presumably, also be called upon in the unlikely event that the moderators went on strike. ;-)
 
@Dharman Actually that's not true. User moderation doesn't require knowledge of programming :D
 
that ^
 
@Braiam It requires some level of knowledge.
For example I can't join Cooking.se and start moderating there. I have no idea how food is made.
All I know is you can make poo from food
 
Why postfix del-pls request with - username date?
 
I would not be the best person to close their questions .
 
8:51 PM
This answer to "Who is on the Community Management Team, and what do they do?" offers some insights.
 
@Dharman You can moderate users being mean to each other, even if you haven't read a cookbook or stepped on a kitchen.
 
@Dharman But you know how to manage people or you don't. No food knowledge needed, really
 
@MarioGalic sorry, where is that?
 
Yes, I completely agree with both Braiam and TylerH but Scratte was asking about handling flags and closing questions
 
I expect that flags that reach moderators aren't things that community can solve itself.
 
8:52 PM
@MarioGalic it's typically referred to as suffix, btw, not postfix :-)
 
@Dharman But you'd recognize rude comments, spam etc.
 
It's why we expect some reputation when you nominate yourself for moderator
 
@MarioGalic If you mean the requests here, it's generated by a user script that sends the posts in here from a click on the post itself.
 
More like a general knowledge with how things work
 
8:53 PM
@JeanneDark the spam part might be slightly iffy. On Cooking, asking for the best tutor in Pune isn't OK. In Academia... I wouldn't be entirely sure.
 
@Scratte Oh I see. Cool!
 
@MarioGalic the userscript adds that for all -pls request. It doesn't change when it is a del-pls. Is there a problem with it?
 
No I was just wondering about it as I could not find the explanation in FAQ.
 
I too am curious what it is useful for.
 
You can find a link to the user script from this message by Makyen
 
8:56 PM
It is useful to spot if subsequent requests for the same user are made.
 
Thank you! Any other useful scripts for SOCVR you recommend installing?
 
@rene how does that work?
 
@JohnDvorak I compare each letter of the names
2
 
I mean, the date part
 
@MarioGalic if you haven't checked out the userscript page: socvr.org/tools/userscripts there is a repo: github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers/UserScripts
 
9:00 PM
What is the timestamp for?
 
I have no idea
 
@JohnDvorak Most likely for completeness/OCD
 
@MarioGalic I can also recommend the scripts from Samuel
 
Ron
o/
 
Maybe you could use it to check if the posters' wall clocks are correctly synchronized
 
9:03 PM
@MarioGalic and Makyen: github.com/makyen
@JohnDvorak for SOCVRTP
@Ron \o
 
What's P?
 
Protocol?
 
@MarioGalic There are different versions of the "Request generator". I think the one on the socvr.org/tool page links to the older version. It puts an extra option under all Questions like so
 
^ No, that's R not P.
 
9:07 PM
Stack Overflow Close Vote Real Time Protocol
 
@JohnDvorak For all that we got rid of "too localized" years ago... questions that relate to specific locations like that generally don't fly anywhere on the network.
We're not a reviews site - that's what Yelp is for.
 
What would it be closed as now? Opinion based?
 
Probably. Or some sites have specific close reasons or just use the fill-in-the-blank reason.
It's content that tends to go out-of-date too quickly to be a good fit for the format and the answer is particularly opinion-based if the asker doesn't give explicit guidelines for what makes something fit their needs. CF all of the effort askers on SWrecs and HWrecs have to go through to explain their use case.
 
If they didn't have to, I expect it would make for very long Answers.. What is "CF"?
 
Or too many different possible answers.
 
9:20 PM
Hmm.. can you edit in a dot (.) in front of the message?
 
Was working on it. :P
 
:) Thanks :)
 
I keep forgetting... every single time... though... remembering what oneboxes is a thing on its own.
 
Can we leave enforcing the no oneboxing rule to ROs please?
 
It would be the simplest to just drop the rule entirely
 
9:21 PM
@Dharman I think that was a pretty kind ask... and most people don't have much time to edit.
 
I mean someone points this out every time onebox appears and this gets more distracting than the actual onebox
2
 
I take it, it's the top one "an abbreviation for the Latin word confer, meaning "compare" or "consult""? Not "commercial film" :)
 
@Scratte oh, add the . to the URL. it got stripped for some reason.
The onebox actually recognizes it correctly and removing the onebox broke the link... interesting.
 
@Catija Oh. So it only works after with an edit? That's a bit.. strangely implemented.
 
No, I mean if you look at the url, it's /wiki/Cf. but the . on the end isn't part of the link.
 
9:26 PM
I never trust Markdown to not do that
 
@Catija I tried to fix it. Make sure I didn't mess up the link, please
 
@Catija Oh. I hadn't even noticed that. I just like the []() toilet overview :)
 
@Machavity Good solution. :D I was... in speed mode trying to beat Makyen ;)
 
@Catija You do realize that Makyen only types in paragraphs, right? :P
 
Except when telling me to remove oneboxes. :P
 
9:28 PM
Thought it meant carried forward
 
I tend to think of it as "cross reference".
 
I thought it was some Stack Exchange abbreviation I had never heard of :D
 
Reviewing close votes has been the best Haskell training class I've ever had.
Do vim questions count as on-topic because some people program in it?
 
@DanielWiddis Technically yes, as long as it is a useful programming problem
 
9:38 PM
@DanielWiddis As I always say: the task not the tool is what make a programmer a programmer :D
 
Well, I do search-and-replace variable names in my IDE a lot, so I guess that might qualify. Just pointed a dupe at it but it's not recently active so I'll leave it alone.
 
@DanielWiddis Given that stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic explicitly includes “software tools commonly used by programmers”: I have always taken it that we should give a lot of latitude for questions about IDEs and editors in general (including vim), as far as not considering them off-topic — even when the questions are just about particular options in the specific IDE/editor
 
@sideshowbarker Remember the "and is" ;)
 
As far as vim specifically, I follow the vim tag and there are actually a lot of question there which would rightly seem more appropriate for vi.stackexchange.com — but there’s an active community of people who respond to those questions here (and upvote a lot of them)
 
9:47 PM
@sideshowbarker OK, thanks. I'd generally come to that conclusion.
 
@DanielWiddis Remember the "and is" (and yes, I know I said it before, but is important to make that clear)
 
Yes
Convert to comment, where have you been my whole life?
 
But it points out that this is an issue and there is no solution as of now.
 
9:55 PM
Hrmf.. one of my first answers was converted to a comment.
 
@Machavity If only there were also 'convert to answer'
 
@PetterFriberg Was there a reason you created a new room just for us? Or was it a mis-click?
 
An answer that says this is a bug isn't much help without describing an alternative or workaround.
 
@DanielWiddis Why not? Not that I disagree..
 
@Dharman The catch there is it's a 1 rep user, and it's just a link. It makes a lot more sense as a comment, since it's still useful
 
9:57 PM
@MarioGalic Why is this even closed?
 
@Scratte It's useful as a comment, not as an answer. Q: "How do I X?" A: "You can't." Not useful. A: "You can't, but you can Y instead." Useful.
 
@Dharman Do you mean it should not have been closed?
 
Where to get Unix version of Scala doesn't seem to be asking for recommendations
 
@Dharman Outside resources is the key reason here.
 
It's hardly going to lead to opinionated answers
 
9:59 PM
BTW, it shows me the *nix version to download.
(probably some trickery with javascript)
 
@Braiam No.. that is a misconception. It doesn't apply to official links for say documentation.
 
@Scratte Reference?
 
@Braiam Reference? :)
 
Asking "where's the documentation" when the first 3 results of "tool docs" is the actual documentation seems counterproductive.
 
cf. is an abbreviation for "compare to". Just like i.e. is an abbreviation for "that is", and e.g. an abbreviation for "for example". Latin just spells things differently. :-)
 
10:03 PM
@CodyGray For latin-based languages speakers is easier to know what they mean
 
I approved an edit for "ie foo bar" into "i.e., foo bar" and another user rejected it. :(
 
The dots are important, as is the comma.
 
..and asking for an official source is not going to get opinionated answers.
 
Should we delete this answer? stackoverflow.com/a/56214112/1839439
 
10:11 PM
@Catija Yeah, I'd gotten used to having to try to ask people to do the edit within the 2 minute edit window, so try to do that one quickly. That time requirement, obviously, doesn't exist for you. :) In this case, I'd stepped AFK for a bit. :)
 
@Dharman it doesn't seem to have much value, so if they don't respond to your comment, then yes, deletion is ok.
 
Thanks
 
@Makyen cough it doesn't exist for you either :p
 
@Machavity Yeah. It's one of the very nice perks. :)
@Machavity BTW: I found out earlier today that if you're editing someone else's message and another RO moves that message out of the room while you're editing, and you then try to save the edit, the system just creates a new message for you, by you, in the current room.
 
@Scratte "if a publisher of a common library isn't making their library easy to download, we're just going to get more questions as long as we keep shutting down new ones" the page is there, I was able to download it without any hitch.
 
10:21 PM
@Makyen I was not aware that asking for official links to software does not represent Request for Off-Site Resource. Could you please remove my del-pls request chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/50185181#50185181
 
You can argue that js magic makes things more complicated, but that's a case for improving the vendor site rather because it's buried.
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
@DanielWiddis Lemme at 'em!
 
Hmm is it not possible to remove your own delete vote?
 
10:24 PM
No, when you vote to delete you have to be 100% sure you want it deleted
 
You can't retract a delete vote, but since you're not a moderator, your delete vote isn't binding, so there's no real harm in letting it sit there.
 
@AdrianMole sorry, yeah misclick, I wanted to check your profile to see if you were from Italy, since you wrote in Italian, but I guess I mis clicked since on mobile, sorry again.
 
@CodyGray Does it age away?
 
@Scratte Nope! Never!
 
Doesn't that mean that.. this post is likely to get deleted then? With 2 votes already on it?
I guess they also stay even if the post is reopened?
 
10:29 PM
@Scratte Yes, but to have any effect, the question must be closed again.
 
@PetterFriberg But the Italian I posted is a very well-known quote.
 
@AdrianMole true but it was also perfectly written :), so I got curious
 
@TheMaster I've explained this many times already, and there are several Meta questions about it. Please accept it as site policy that you should not be commenting about votes, nor should you be leaving comments asking questions of no one in particular. Comments are to suggest improvements or clarifications to posts. It isn't necessary to ask for clarifications. People who want to post them will do so without being asked. Those who won't, won't, and you shouldn't try to force them into doing so.
 
and using full site on mobile with my fat fingers created the mess
 
@Scratte Not really, only if you think that two other people casting delete votes on it is "likely". And why would it be, if the post shouldn't be deleted and the first delete vote was in error?
Furthermore, you can only cast delete votes on negatively-scored posts, so if someone upvotes it, returning it to a non-negative score, then it cannot be deleted.
 
10:37 PM
@CodyGray You can delete positively scoring questions
 
@CodyGray There are two delete votes on it. I thought only three was needed.
 
but funnily the delete vote is remembered, so when it goes back to negative scores the delvotes reappear
 
@Dharman That doesn't seem like a typo, nor something that would never be useful to anyone else.
 
@Dharman he meant answers I think. Unless he's been a mod too long.
 
Yes, I meant answers
But there are really too many edge cases, which is why I repeatedly grow tired of these nitpicking questions about how things work....
 
10:38 PM
Have you considered forming a committee and writing a 1500-page reference about the edge cases?
 
I have absolutely not considered any such thing.
 
@CodyGray We're talking about a Question :)
 
Think of all those extra meetings you'd be able to attend.
 
ugh. IE11 issues
 
@AdrianMole Why do you assume that I would put myself on the committee?
 
10:41 PM
@Scratte posts with a higher score require more delete votes to delete, as well, up to 10 votes
so if it's a popular (read: highly upvoted) post, the threshold is higher for safety reasons
 
@CodyGray It's my nature - I'm presumptive.
 
@Dharman @TylerH Can you move it to null. While I stand by my close vote I don't feel comfortable defending my cv-pls.
 
@AdrianMole not to be confused with presumptuous.
@AdrianMole sorry morphological pun, can't resist those...
 
When applied to a person, they are effectively the same.
 
@AdrianMole I think the semantics of those 2 words are in fact different.
 
10:44 PM
@AdrianMole Oh, well as long as you're not just presuming that I'm inept... :-)
 
hehe
 
@CodyGray he presumed, he shall presume...Please more inflections...
 
Huh?
The grammar was correct
 
@CodyGray yes I know, I was having fun conjugating the verb...
 
I see. Maybe you can also diagram the sentence?
 
10:46 PM
conjugation brings very shallow entertainment in English
 
@AndrasDeak Which raises the interesting question of what native language you think in?
 
*snickers in Spanish*
 
@CodyGray depends on the diagram, an X-bar?
 
I make no assumptions about nationalities when I have nothing to extrapolate from
 
:50185460 what is your native language if I may ask?
 
10:48 PM
got it, had to parse that sentence correctly
@bad_coder Hungarian
 
@AndrasDeak NNNoooooooooooo.....
 
Which is my only native language, and I only think in English when I have imaginary arguments with people
 
@AndrasDeak I was actually betting Hungarian or maybe Austrian.
 
Austro-Hungarian :P
 
@AndrasDeak LOL I hadn't even thought of the composite word.
 
10:49 PM
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
Is "Austrian" actually a language?
 
I only think in Hungarian when I'm programming :-)
 
what is actually a language?
 
@AdrianMole Tirol might be....
@CodyGray that was way far-fetched...I'm left clueless.
 
Never heard of Hungarian Notation?
 
10:51 PM
@awesomescorpion I heard you guys were responsible for inventing neckties. I wonder if neckties are a sort of universal language by themselves...
 
I don't know what 'you guys' is in reference to me?
 
@AdrianMole yes, but it's mostly German I think
@awesomescorpion scorpions perhaps?
 
I'm dutch.
 
then you're responsible for carrots (or maybe not) ;)
 
orange carrots my people are responsible for. Carrots are naturally purple.
 
10:53 PM
@AdrianMole Yes.. and no. They speak a variant of German.
 
@awesomescorpion Yeah, but I've also heard that being called an urban legend. I'm not invested enough in carrot history to try and figure out the truth.
 
I would prefer purple carrots. I can only ever find the orange ones.
 
I think I had a dream once where I was talking in English, but that's not typical
 
@AndrasDeak probably a nightmare :P
 
nah, English is silly but I like it
 
10:57 PM
English is weird. I can speak it with minimal grammatical errors yet it is still obvious I am not a true native speaker. :( Accents are unfair.
 
@AndrasDeak I have a mission for you!! Go to the Dominican Republic, meet up with @Braiam and chill out for several months. Then report back to us, on lessons learned about chilling out in tropical climates.
 
If anyone starts with good chances on the English accent front, it's the Dutch
@bad_coder it's not for me
 
heh, you'd think. Uncanny valley effect.
 
I'm willing to do Finland
@awesomescorpion yeah, I guess it's easier to fool non-native ears
 
@awesomescorpion What's even more unfair is that most of the native speakers make tons of grammatical errors. :-)
 
10:59 PM
In a way, those grammatical errors are what makes it clear they're native speakers. They're not falling back on their native language's grammar, but using their own dialect of english.
So you have to emulate a specific dialect to appear native.
 
plus it's easier to have atrocious spelling when you never had to learn those words properly
 
@awesomescorpion I sound as if I'm speaking Indian English by my accent
 
looking at they're/their/there, "could of" etc.
 
@awesomescorpion an accent doesn't betray a native speaker
 
poor non-natives have to employ higher cognitive function to speak
 
11:01 PM
Maybe you mean your region of origin/birth?
 
That's also another aspect distinguishing native speakers. Because they speak it in their daily language, and learned it before and outside of school, they identify words not by their spelling but their pronunciation, so those homophones are easier to mistake for each other.
 
@awesomescorpion So, my perfect grammar makes me sound like a non-native speaker?
 
native speaker means the language you learned it first or as a child among perhaps another language equally
 
Sure, or a news caster if you're lucky.
 
I know lots of people who only speak English, both with a relative accent and without, who have lots of grammatical errors in their speech
were it possible, they'd probably have spelling errors in their speech, too
 
11:04 PM
@CodyGray no, it sometimes makes you sound like a guy from Cali when in truth you're from TEXAS :D
 
Heh
 
@TylerH I happened to come across this today i.stack.imgur.com/3gg4M.jpg
 
@awesomescorpion Oddly enough I do not understand or remember a word, even in my own language, unless I know how to spell it.
 
@AndrasDeak Nice to something new; usually it's the hitler and some strippers comic, or whatever the specific people are
 
@AndrasDeak you are not made for tropical climates?
 
11:05 PM
@bad_coder nope
 
@bad_coder No
 
ROs help a vote violator!
 
@TylerH please move to dev\null I'm embarrassed...
 
@AndrasDeak Sure, just point me to the violator...
 
part of the task is finding one
 
11:07 PM
@TylerH moved on request
 
My favorite example is "This book is dedicated to my parents, Ayn Rand and God."
 
@AndrasDeak I demand a raise
 
@TylerH how does 50% sound?
 
and don't you go giving me a lift, either
 
@AndrasDeak you need to be more adaptive to other climates and cultures...!!
 
11:08 PM
What sort of book is dedicated to Ayn Rand, God, and the author's parents? A bit of a clash of ideology there...
 
@TylerH Have you not read "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" by Lynne Truss? Or seen the comics about "Let's Eat, Grandma!" vs. "Let's Eat Grandma!"?
 
@CodyGray the latter yes, I have not read the Lynne Truss work, though I've heard of it.
 
@RyanM Isn't there a comma missing?
 
If you ask the Oxfords, yes.
 
@Scratte thatsthejoke.png
 
11:11 PM
Has anyone noticed that oxford should refer to a place where oxen can cross a river?
 
Glad you avoided one-boxing there, @RyanM.
 
I'm super enlightened tonight
 
@AndrasDeak that's why we refer to is as a serial comma. Then we only have to deal with the RS-232 protocol
 
Oh.. @awesomescorpion mentioned them as three.
 
@CodyGray Chat anti-feature request: one-box filenames of common memes with the meme image
 
11:12 PM
I mean, that is literally the origin of the name @AndrasDeak. 'Oxenaforda', ford of the oxen.
 
@RyanM bug request
@awesomescorpion I'm not surprised, but I hadn't noticed it before
 
@awesomescorpion So Deak would make one of your ancestors a Deacon...Religion runs in your family :) @AndrasDeak
 
@bad_coder not sure about the etymology, but the Hungarian meaning of the name is more like a scribe
 
11:16 PM
@AndrasDeak that's a tight connection between the scribe and the secular religious. Scribe was probably taken from deacon.
 
probably
@bad_coder so an etymological dictionary says it's Greek diakonos -> some Slavic dijak (deacon) -> diák (originally "a person who could read/write", today "student") -> deák
 
Yay, found another documentation inaccuracy :D
 
@AndrasDeak diakonos goes further back to the new testament and the Pauline letters..!!
 
Undocumented inaccuracies are harder to find, but far more fun.
 
@bad_coder works for me
 
11:23 PM
@AndrasDeak YaY I got that one right :D !!!
 
I didn't say that
 
@AndrasDeak off course you would never grant reason where it is due...!!
@AndrasDeak but I loved that etymological reference, precious!!
 
11:44 PM
@AdrianMole In this case is because the one writing the documentation presumed that previous version had the same behavior as later version
 
@Scratte dupe, but the target is unclear
 
@AndrasDeak I prefer that unclear questions are closed as unclear; that way one of the two question get edited into shape.
 
@Braiam yes
 
@AndrasDeak This is another reason to like this room :)
 
How so?
I'm only here to catch glimpses of rene
 
11:52 PM
@AndrasDeak Someone is always here to do that.. and when they're here, they may find duplicate targets :)
I wonder if there's any statistics on how many close votes goes unused on a daily basis.
 
@Scratte Among active users of close votes or in general? There are lots of 3k users :-p
 

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