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12:05 AM
Does a question first have to be closed to ask for del-pls here? For example this typo question.
 
Usually, yes
 
@MarioGalic it’s closed now, anyway
(as far as this specific case)
@MarioGalic I guess the relevant part of the FAQ is socvr.org/faq#GEfM-cv-pls-not-a-habit
> del-pls is for posts that:
> * are really bad, but which don't quite make it to abusive/spam (use flags for those)
> * are within 1 downvote of being eligible for delete-votes (see Shog9's answer to "Downvote in order to be able to vote to delete. Is it acceptable?")
> That means del-pls requests are permitted for closed questions which have been closed for more than 2 days, or which have a score less than or equal to -2; or answers which have a score less than or equal to 0. del-pls requests for posts which don't meet those criteria are not permitted, because the request can either not b
 
 
2 hours later…
1:55 AM
@rene @Machavity Thanks. :)
 
Um, can my last cv-pls be moved to /dev/null (2 lines up)? I've decided I want to post an answer to the dupe I pointed it to.
 
@DanielWiddis Done. Ping an RO next time, please, just to make sure someone can see it if it falls off the page
 
Thx, saw you were active and would have pinged if it took more than the time to type the answer. :)
 
2:50 AM
@DanielWiddis With duplicate-->proposed dup-target: You are not involved in the duplicate if you have an answer on the proposed dup-target (i.e. you can make a cv-pls request for dup-closure with a question you've answered as the dup-target). In fact, it's expected that there will be times when that happens, particularly in low traffic tags.
Yes, it's something that could be abused. Thus, potential abuse is something to keep an eye out for, but active users having an answer on a dup-target is not unusual.
 
 
3 hours later…
5:53 AM
0
Q: can we burninate the [backend] tag?

chiliNUTCan we send the backend tag back where it came from? I think the tag is too generic to be helpful, and the actual language tags its often accompanied with are enough to categorize the questions it is applied to. The tag's description is Defines a component in a logical separation of an applicati...

 
6:47 AM
@janw Yes, IDE questions are on topic: "Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming". @oguzismail's example of the top question does not fall into this category, as top is not primarily used for programming (it's a system administration tool).
@RyanM rats, I did not read far enough ahead in the transcript and someone has already made this point. I read a little ways but clearly not far enough...
 
@RyanM but you did find a canonical so this is not just my stoopid opinion, it is the community consensus....
 
@Makyen Is there a goto room when removing messages?
 
7:08 AM
@CodyGray Stiillllll have to disagree with this. I'm interested in content curation and I can assure you that the -1 rep discourages me from downvoting answers, especially when I'm trying to get to 10k to improve my ability to curate content. There are a lot of terrible answers, and one bad Android question can get many. It's easy to repeat cargo-cult answers that fix common problems without figuring out if they fix this problem. So I just deal with the question, and sigh at the answers.
I do downvote plenty, though: I just mostly downvote questions (and bad answers that I'm relatively confident will be deleted and/or that are particularly bad/visible)
 
If this about programming?
 
@Scratte looks more like it's About professional server- or networking-related infrastructure administration
 
we should have a separate room for "needs more downvotes"
6
 
@Scratte Maybe, but it needs so much more focus, detail, and clarity that it would take a book to answer the question.
(which is to say: I voted Needs More Focus)
 
7:24 AM
Heh.. OK. Thanks :) It seems to have closed now :)
 
@RyanM are that answers that are not likely to be deleted? Either by VLQ / NAA or for the question not being roombable?
 
7:41 AM
Hmm.. so now the "What have you tried?" becomes part of an Answer, as the preface. How very disappointing.
 
@rene Not under the current standards for NAA/VLQ. Suggesting that anyone who has a NullPointerException in onCreateView on a variable of a View type just move the code to onViewCreated instead is a non-VLQ answer. Most of the people suggesting it have no idea when it works, because they suggest it where it clearly does not apply.
Or suggesting solutions that only apply to Activity code for Fragment code. Or suggesting clearing caches/restarting for every Android Studio error (as an answer, of course, not a comment or dupe suggestion toward the dozens of questions that suggest this).
 
Are Questions about API quotas on-topic?
 
There was a question recently. Typo, because they had two variables that they were trying to use to refer to the thing, and they were setting one and using the other. Three incorrect answers, one suggesting moving it to a different lifecycle method for no apparent reason, another one suggesting calling a different method on the null object (don't ask me how that would help), and one suggesting something that would only work if called from a different lifecycle method.
 
@RyanM sigh
@RyanM Okay, I see. So it is unlikely you get those downvotes returned.
 
@RyanM If I see 2 Q's, one closed, repeating answers with next-to-NO-variation, and I come across those answers on the VLQ queue, rest assured it's getting my vote.
 
7:51 AM
One answer was eventually edited into something that would work after I and another tag regular replied to every answer saying why they were wrong, and it was accepted, so it won't roomba.
 
@Scratte how to gracefully degrade, yes. What the quota is, no.
 
@rene Why is my quota 0 at the beginning of the day? :D
 
That...hmmm. That's one of those ones where I feel like it's almost certainly going to lack an MCVE in most instances, but could make a good "what are common reasons for..." canonical if it gets asked a lot.
 
..for refrence Also, I had no idea that youtube had a map API.
 
@Scratte lol that link...they copied the HTML. I fixed it.
 
7:56 AM
@Scratte picked a duplicate
 
that would not technically explain why it's zero on the first access of the day
Generally my response to those is "I don't believe you" (i.e., I bet it was not the first access of the day. Why? No idea. Maybe they're running it elsewhere, maybe they have the wrong day boundary...)
Which sounds like No MCVE to me, so...voted that.
 
OK. I'm not familiar with the API at all, but I assumed it works like most others.
I figured maybe they found a key somewhere and everyone else it using the same one, that's not per IP :D
 
@Scratte that ... would be utterly confusing ... but I guess YT has some dashboard where you can see quota usage. If they don't have access to that you know they don't own that key. anyway ..
 
user12867493
8:52 AM
@Adriaan The domain doesn't have any history yet.
 
@Daniil google results show a lot of promotion activity but nothing clearly illicit
 
9:12 AM
I don't understand this question at all. What am I missing?
 
@Scratte Umm... I think I grok it... but got that feeling I'm missing something...
 
@JonClements one of your legs by any chance?
 
@JonClements You "grok" it? What is grokking? :)
 
@Adriaan umm wait... you're still online... I thought I agreed with Mrs Elephant she wasn't going to let you out anymore? :p
 
@Scratte jargon for "understand", it's from a Heinlein novel IIRC
 
9:20 AM
@JonClements home office ;)
 
@Scratte What is a search engine? :p
@Adriaan darn... those pesky workarounds :p
 
@JonClements Ahh. Well, understanding something intuitively, makes me think that it is in fact me, that's not getting it.
It could be that there's just part of logic that my brain doesn't cover, because starring at it doesn't help.
 
@Scratte well.... I think I get what they're trying to ask but it's still got a few questions that need answering - and quite why it's tagged both javascript and php is meh....
 
Yeah, I think they want the union of the characters in each group, or something
but the exact rules need clarification
 
I think maybe I just lost track at "Input 1 = 123*456*789*154.....etc. I assume this as ABC".. I can't make that number being ABC
 
9:30 AM
@Scratte it's "*" delimited - so you've got 4 lots of ABC.... so ABC=123 then ABC=456... but for each of those it's then effectively A=1, B=2, C=3, then A=4, B=5, C=6 kind of thing
 
this doesn't make sense to me as an answer but it was accepted ... am I missing something? stackoverflow.com/a/63327878/874188
 
@tripleee I think it means that you can send the sticker to that bot, and it will tell you the ID
 
@JonClements Thanks. You just confirmed my brain is not working :D
 
9:46 AM
@Scratte nothing wrong with that... my brain never works and I've survived so far! :p
 
@JonClements That's due to puppy treats. When you fall, you accidentally eat one that's been tossed at an earlier point :D
Am I right in assuming that such comments are "No longer needed" even before they are posted?
 
@Scratte Yes, along with mandatory fist-shaking
 
@RyanM lol!.. so how does one go about that? :)
 
@Scratte you may have to post a . I hear they're big on reactions.
 
I assume it will not be acceptable to add a comment linking to Cody's chat message :D
lol!.. Awesome. So in the meantime, one can raise a custom flag with a "Please do 👊" in the message? :)
Of course moderators with no emoji support are not going to understand any of that. I assume an empty square box isn't very actionable.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:06 AM
 
11:21 AM
@Scratte will those mods get emojional?
 
@Scratte if Cody sees that flag he'll just nuke your account
 
@AndrasDeak I call dibs :p
 
11:42 AM
@AndrasDeak lol!.. I think you may have a point, as rene also indicated. Very very emojional :)
 
^^ Someone vandalized their question (SD report)
 
@JeanneDark Rolled back the edit, thanks
 
@AlonEitan not a programming question anyway; vaguely web server admin but VLQ
 
@tripleee Oh, I wasn't sure if "sorting out" is to resolve or to actually sort those paragraphs
 
12:04 PM
Morning
 
Is this graphql-js Question detailed enough?
 
@tripleee doesn't that constitute abuse of the system?
 
@Adriaan hard to tell whether it's R/A or just a sloppy distracted copy/paste; up to you really how you flag it, as long as we can get it removed
down in the obscure sewers, nobody can see which precise flag you used
 
12:19 PM
@tripleee except that red has much more severe consequences than mere closure and deletion
 
what's more alarming is the review
 
@tripleee Is Samuel's review suspension room still live?
 
You should mod flag this review
 
@AlonEitan I just wanted to dump it into Samuel's room, in case that's still live
 
I never heard about that room
 
12:23 PM
@AlonEitan I flagged an unrelated post of theirs
 
Oh, nice :)
LOL, lots of new joiners
 
12:39 PM
 
@JeanneDark "off-topic" is rather general. Simply flag/CV by off-topic->belongs on another site -> stats
 
@Adriaan Are you sure it should be migrated?
 
@Adriaan I'm not active on stacks like stats or bioinformatics etc. so I'm a bit reluctant to be more specific in my close reason.
 
@Adriaan Kinda. Sam is here but not here. He does a lot of Triage bans every day, tho. There's no need to bug him about that one tho. It's handled
 
@Adriaan yeah... not sure that should be migrated
 
12:45 PM
It looks well enough for me; problem description, mention of why said test can (not) be used and the question what the rationale behind that is
 
@Adriaan maybe - does it meet stats.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic? Still sometimes just easier to point that site to the OP along with a link to their on-topic section and let 'em delete here/post there if they want to do it...
 
@JeanneDark I would love if more people would follow that same reasoning.
2 pages of failed migrations stackoverflow.com/tools/posts/migrated/returned?page=2 lots of those came back from Cross Validated
 
@rene Oh, this is good to know...it's unfortunate that this is a 10k page
 
yeah, that is to tease you all to reach 10K ... ;)
 
:D
I just saw that the now-closed post had a pending edit. Does approving this edit put the post into the reopen-queue? How do you handle such cases?
 
1:03 PM
@janw yes I believe so if it's the first time the question has been put in the reopen queue
 
@TylerH I'm not so sure if the edit begun before the question was closed
 
@janw In theory, each edit should be judged on its own merits. But I understand you not wanting to push a question into the reopen queue just because of a cosmetic edit. One could, I suppose, argue "no improvement" for such an edit on a closed question.
 
@JeanneDark The edit was suggested around 2 minutes before the question got closed.
@AdrianMole Yeah, I will use a custom reject reason and explain the reasoning.
 
@JeanneDark I mean, if the post hasn't been in the reopen queue before, and it gets edited after it was closed, then it will go into the reopen queue
even if the edit was suggested before the Q was closed; the relevant timestamp is the approval timestamp because that's when it takes effect
So to answer your question of how we handle it, if the edit would make the question reopen-worthy (doubtful), then I would say approve it. However, if the edit only fixes things like spelling and it's lacking an MCVE, for example, I would skip or maybe reject for custom reason.
Explaining the Q was off-topic/close-worthy and that an edit such as this would put it in a reopen queue, which shouldn't happen.
 
But rejecting an otherwise reasonable edit seems to me like 'punishing' the editor because of an inherent fault in the system.
 
1:11 PM
@Scratte The Trash can appeared to be the "normal" trash room on the SO Chat server when I was establishing defaults for the Archiver. There were a few different rooms on SE Chat. Some rooms have preferred trash rooms. If I'm aware of them, then they are in the targetRoomSets definitions in the Archiver.
 
the editor would get dinged for a declined edit suggestion, which is why I would only do it on rare occasions like if the edit was borderline/barely there
 
@janw How about this: i.stack.imgur.com/Ww228.png
 
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/63340817/how-to-get-median-of-a-bigdecimal-arraylist
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/63339440/skipping-from-last-in-a-stream

On both post OP don't show any effort and ask for some recommendation. I don't understand why 2nd one will not not close for same reason of 1st one
 
@AdrianMole This situation fortunately resolved itself, as OP approved
Next time I will look for pending edits before reaching for the close link, and approve them if they are useful
 
1:13 PM
@User-Upvotedon'tsayThanks closed is closed, does the exact reason really matter. One question is now deleted so it is moot now.
 
@User-Upvotedon'tsayThanks Not sure I understand. Both are closed and one is deleted. Are you asking why the other is not deleted?
 
@Machavity I am asking why people are not voting to close 2nd one for seeking recommendations for software libraries.
 
@rene Thank you! My first thought was "18% rejected, that isn't too bad", but then I figured that this corresponds to at least 30 questions...
 
@User-Upvotedon'tsayThanks The second one was an accepted duplicate closure suggestion. That's why it is closed as a duplicate
If you wait a couple of days, can vote to delete it
 
Also a bit scary.
 
1:21 PM
I flagged
 
@Marvin Yes - but "scary" isn't a recognized close reason. ;)
 
Can someone remind me, do mods see the anonymous votes on the post UI just like we see the normal scores?
 
@AdrianMole: "I’m voting to close this question because I'm scared"? I do get your point, though ;)
 
@honk That one hasn't been active for around 8 years and more than 3k views
 
1:23 PM
 
@Makyen I was looking for a room to move messages to if someone enters a room with room and disruptive messages. I assume that one can be used :)
 
@TylerH @honk I'm binning this as we require requests to be for questions with recent activity (6 months, per our rules).
 
@Machavity Yes, I understand it's closed for the duplicate . I am just confused about I should vote 2nd one to close for seeking recommendations for software libraries or duplicate. Which is more appropriate ?
 
Yeah, but it's lying around on my lawn. I can't mow this way...
 
@Scratte yes, Trash Can can be used for general trash. It's like Trash, but trashier...
 
1:25 PM
@TylerH lol! I saw that :) I assume there's no "Just trash" only a "trashier" :D
 
There is actually
Though it may have been frozen if people opted fully for Trash Can
 
@TylerH Why did the question you posted get removed? The question is not closed yet?
 
@User-Upvotedon'tsayThanks Either works. The only practical difference is in how Roomba sees them
 
Is this a plain old NAA or have I missed something?
 
@klutt which question?
@Scratte looks like it's been renamed chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/info/109494/friendly-bin
 
1:27 PM
@klutt No one-boxing :) Put a character in front of the link, like "."
 
The one I just linked :) You wanted it closed for typo stackoverflow.com/questions/10953650/…
 
@klutt no, I didn't want it closed.
It is not eligible for cv-pls here, that's why I moved it
honk is the one who requested it
 
Why is not eligable? Because it's too old?
 
4 mins ago, by TylerH
@TylerH @honk I'm binning this as we require requests to be for questions with recent activity (6 months, per our rules).
 
@AdrianMole I keep flagging. NAA this time
 
1:29 PM
I wasn't sure whether they were suggesting the use of docker compose as an answer.
 
Why do we have such an activity rule? Isn't it a good thing to clean up old mess too? I mean, the question stackoverflow.com/questions/10953650/… is extremely unlikely to help anyone
 
@klutt to use our votes on something potentially harmful, i.e. something still getting attention. Questions which have sat for more than 6 months without activity just rot away in some dark corner. Feel free to spend votes on it, but this room is more for things which needs action now. If it's sat there for >6 months, it ain't urgent.
 
@klutt I'm not sure why you keep linking to the question. Please don't do that as it basically cheats the rule we have in the first place.
 
@TylerH Thanks :) Would you know the ones to use on chat.stackexchange?
 
@AdrianMole :) It doesn't really answer how to, right?
 
1:31 PM
The reason we have the rule is because our CVs are limited and there is way too much new stuff that needs closing before it gets attention. Stuff that no one is seeing (because it's 8 years old) is not that important.
@Scratte Nope, but if you hop onto Tavern on the Meta I bet someone there could tell you
 
@TylerH Sorry, I had no special intention with that other that to provide a good example of what I was talking about
 
or just search for "trash" in all rooms
 
@Vega I agree. I was 90% with NAA but not quite sure enough to put my own flag in (from FP review). I have to be very careful in reviews, for a year or two. :)
 
@TylerH OK. I'll do that next time, thanks :) Hmm.. I think that's on chat.meta though.
 
@AdrianMole Ah, I see :s
 
1:34 PM
@Scratte Tavern on the Meta is just chat.stackexchange.com
Unless something changed...
oh, I guess it did
that's dumb
Here, use this one for Chat.SE @Scratte
 
Ok.. I found the Tavern on the Meta. I do not have an account there. I only have one for chat.stackexchange, not chat.meta.stackexchange.
 
Is this question appropriate?
 
@JeanneDark seems hardware focused and, to be honest, a bit brusque in how it's asking the question
 
"reply in terms of hardwired and programmed implementation"
 
@Scratte There was a "recycle bin" room, which existed before the Trash can room, but the recycle bin hasn't been used in a few/several years. The Trash can room appears to be the primary target for trash on SO chat. It looks like @TylerH found the "friendly bin", which appears to have been created because some people felt others would be offended by moving their trash to the Trash can.
 
1:45 PM
Also, "recycle bin" would imply that the messages in there would be kind of...recycled?
 
SOCVR pipes all it's trash to /dev/null. Because it benchmarks great and is fast as hell
 
"this cv-pls request consists of 100% recycled trash"
 
rene makes sure we all stay focused on the environment and not the flowers
 
@Scratte Did the link I gave for the targetRoomSets in the Archiver not work? That list includes trash rooms on all three Chat servers, along with some trash rooms that individual rooms choose to use. There may be other such trash rooms (e.g. the "friendly room" @TylerH mentioned above). If you do find some, I'd like to know about them.
 
2:02 PM
Could a 700K+ user's answer 'Is it working now ? How did you resolve this ?' be considered as abuse to bump the question, or we should consider their good faith?
I mean, they have enough reputation to post a comment
 
@Vega Is it a new answer?
 
You’re asking if you should consider it R/A instead of NAA? Is there a history of breaking the rules? How has this user earned all this reputation? How many helpful flags do they have?
 
Does the 'answer' have any upvotes? :-)
 
@janw Yes, the question is from '15
 
@Andreas No, in any case it is an NAA.
 
2:04 PM
Why would they want to bump it up?
 
@Vega No, I meant the answer :)
 
@janw ah, sorry, the answer is from today
@Andreas To have a real answer? Old questions are not answered as much as 'new'
I might be of bad faith, will just dv and vote to delete...
 
@Vega So it’s their own question, or they just found an interesting one? Will not commenting be considered new activity?
 
@Vega Ok. I'd flag as NAA, downvote and leave a comment. I tend to assume good faith and honest mistakes...
 
@Andreas Not their own question
@janw Yes, I did, thank you :)
 
2:07 PM
@Vega I'd just flag as NAA and downvote
 
It’s a very strange thing for a high reputation user to do, especially above 500 000.
 
unless you see a pattern, in which case let mods know via mod flag
 
@Vega That goes directly to intent, which is hard to judge based on the little information which is provided, or appears to be available. On it's face, it looks like NAA, which is how you should probably flag it. If you feel there's a pattern of behavior, then you can raise a custom mod-flag and explain what the issue is.
 
@Vega 700K+ or 700?
 
actually, come to think of it, you might just flag for mods anyway and they could convert the answer to a comment
 
2:08 PM
@JeanneDark You are right, only 700 :(
 
@RyanM Completing curation tasks should earn us free downvotes.
 
@Makyen I'm so sorry. Since I do not use this user script, I didn't check it properly :( I see the room id in there now.
 
Oh. NAA; not abuse. They don’t know the system. 1 or 2 upvoted questions or answers could’ve provided them all their reputation.
 
We are in a discussion which is basically about moderating a user. We should stay away from that. Just moderate content.
 
Thank you very much all!
 
2:10 PM
@DanielWiddis now there's a dream...
 
Leave a friendly, explanatory comment. :)
 
Just a thought. Assuming someone has a company and created a Stack Overflow account for "support" purposes. Wouldn't one assume that it could be used by multiple individuals from the company?
 
yes
 
@Scratte Almost all of those I’ve seen have been entirely used for spam.
Some time ago, there was a short discussion about wether or not MS Excel formulas are on-topic or not. The consensus seemed to be: yes, because it’s VBA, though a lot of the questions coming in are LQ. So, what about Google Sheets? Is this on-topic?
 
@Scratte from the legal bits To access some of the public Network features you will need to register for an account as an individual and consent to these Public Network Terms. A company account that is used by more then 1 individual is against the terms of service.
 
2:26 PM
@Andreas I see code, I say on-topic. Why shouldn't it be on-topic?
 
@Andreas I think the same applies, I would consider on topic
But I am not sure if it's clear enough
 
2:42 PM
@rene Thanks. That's settles that :)
 
2:59 PM
 
3:12 PM
@oguzismail Seemed like «general computing» instead, but ok. @Vega
 
3:35 PM
\o
 
o/
 
No report today, figured SO CVR can keep my company while I am job hunting!
 
o/ does this represent the roman salute?
 
\o
 
3:47 PM
@halfer oh, looking for work? May I recommend SO Jobs :-P
 
@TylerH Good idea, though I recall they have historically been quite poor on the contract side.
I will peek though {thumbs up}
 
@AdrianMole By the time you get to that point, you're choosing between bad options. There's no way around that. Either you approve an edit that A) causes the harm of usurping the one entry-by-edit which the OP has as a chance to get their question into the reopen queue with an edit which doesn't make the question reopenable and B) wastes the time of at least three people to review the question in the reopen queue, when the edit clearly doesn't make the question reopenable.
Or, you reject the edit, which prevents the user who suggested the edit from getting +2 rep, and results in cosmetic improvements to the question not being made.
Rejecting the edit is considerably lesser harm. You can mitigate that by 1) using a custom reject reason that explains to the user suggesting the edit why the edit is being rejected, and 2) if you are one of the close-voters, you can make the cosmetic edits yourself (not approve them), which both prevents other users from making such edits and improves the post, so the question OP will be able to (hopefully) start their edits to make the question on-topic from a better point.
 
@Makyen All good points! And I shall keep these in mind in the future, when reviewing. However, the other major problem is that it is not easy to see that a suggested edit has been made after a question was closed; indeed, there is not even any indication in the review that the question is actually closed! This is a major fault in the review system, IMHO.
 
4:06 PM
@AdrianMole Unfortunately, we can only do what's possible within the capabilities of the system. Other than using userscripts to redress various problems, which only solve the issue for ourselves and anyone else using the userscript, we can only report issues to SE. Ideally, the system wouldn't put questions into the reopen queue automatically as the result of someone other than the OP editing the question. However, that's been asked for and SE hasn't acted.
 
@Makyen Considering the suggestion that closed Questions are auto-reopened with edits, I do not think they are likely to act on it.
 
4:26 PM
I see a lot of questions with pending edits which aren't closed yet. Just today I went ahead and approved a (grammar) edit before close-voting, to try to avoid it being approved after the close. But there's no guarantee your edit is the one that closes it... unless I guess you improve the edit?
 
@Scratte I had at least one more complete chat message, which I deleted prior to sending, which was a commentary on what my perceptions are of their POV on the subject. I was having a hard time separating it from my opinions about that POV, so I didn't post it. But, basically, yes, SE appears to have a substantially different opinion as to how to handle closed questions.
My opinion is that what they've expressed as the direction they intend to head is detrimental to everyone, including the OP, and the site in general, under the guise that it might result in the impression that SO/SE is a nicer/more "welcoming" place.
@DanielWiddis My opinion on what to do there is described in my answer to "Close then Edit, or Edit then Close?"
 
Gotcha. Good info there.
 
4:46 PM
This question looks inappropriate but how to flag it? Off-topic, recommendation etc.?
 
@JeanneDark I just voted it off-site resources. Someone else also CV'd it, not sure what reason.
 
Thank you!
This question is puzzling to me. It received an upvote, but it seems rather close-worthy to me (more focus, details or clarity).
 
5:12 PM
@JeanneDark went with needs details
 
@Makyen But it will be more welcoming, which is the point. It will just degrade the quality. Only the reputation on the internet is that Stack Overflow has quality, and it will take a long time to reflect the "now normal". Also there are users willing to spend all their free time to try sustain the quality despite odds, and so they will ensure it will just take longer for the site to become ..unusable.
 
@oguzismail Thanks!
 
5:26 PM
@Scratte Ultimately, no, it will not be more welcoming. It will result in the user going through the post->close(->open->close)+ process more times.
It will be more confusing than other options for improving the process, because instead of the post being closed once, with a list of the multiple things that are wrong and directions/suggestions on how to fix them, all of which need to be resolved prior to being reopened, the user will make minor changes and see their question reopened, and then quickly closed, again (and repeat).
It will result in the user getting more downvotes, because the post spends more time open, it will be more noticeable, and more users will be directly informed of the question. Downvotes are the primary thing users find to be unwelcoming, mostly because OPs take them personally, when they are not personal.
The existing confusion surrounding the close->reopen process does need to be improved, but replacing it with a system that is still confusing and gives the OP an emotional roller-coaster ride (close->open->close->open) is worse.
 
When an audit is too obvious :D
@Makyen This is true for the users that wants to stay here and gain reputation. For the vast majority of users that just want an answer, the more time it's open, the more chance they will have to get an Answer. The users that closed it initially also cannot vote to close it again, so every time the throwaway account makes a small edit, they're probably prolonging the time it takes to close it.
 
@Makyen what it looks > what it is
 
How to handle a situation where there is a question where I would usually cast a delete vote, however there is also an upvoted answer which does not seem to warrant deletion? For example Create and add Objects to a list in Scala
 
@MarioGalic Ask a better question or edit the question so it's compliant?
 
5:39 PM
@MarioGalic ask a mod to move it to the duplicate target? I don't know if they do that often though
 
@oguzismail That question is not closed as duplicate.
 
I feel that question is not really salvageable with an edit.
 
Ask a better question then :)
 
@Braiam I am not sure I understand. How does asking a new question affect the status of the question that I would like to cast delete vote on?
 
@Braiam Oh
 
5:51 PM
If an answer has >=3 upvotes, and the question is deleted, then the upvoted user does not loose reputation. Is that correct?
 
@MarioGalic Only after the post has been on the site for 60 days.
 
IIRC it's time-based only
 
@JohnDvorak No. It's both. Must be deleted after 60 days and have a score of >2 .
 
Conditions: Visible for at least 60 days, score at least 3
 
Hmm. this question seems possibly off-topic (specifically requests off site resource, not specifically about programming). Found it trying to answer my own question, and rather disappointed in the answers. Thoughts?
 
6:01 PM
It has recent activity so you could cv-pls request it
 
@DanielWiddis I say let it stay. It's easy to find use for that in a programming setting. Once could even just add a paragraph saying something along "I'm developing a program to construct random filenames." and bingo, it's about programming, no?
 
@MarioGalic That you can move the content that you don't want to lose to the new question.
 
The list of all characters allowed in a filename would be too big, wouldn't it? :D
 
@DanielWiddis afaik, super user/unix and linux has similar questions.
 
@JohnDvorak Well, I suppose one could argue that the list of allowed character are all characters, except... Which is also the way one of the Answers seems to have gone about it :)
 
6:04 PM
And in the case of linux filesystems I think it's defined by posix (don't quote me on that!)
 
@Braiam How can I move the content? Do you mean self-answer by pasting other user's answer? Wouldn't that be plagiarism?
 
@DanielWiddis btw, it depends on the filesystem you are using (fat vs ntfs vs ext*/btrfs)
 
@Braiam So it is TB, innit? :P
 
I guess a moderator didn't think it was on topic.. ;)
 
@JohnDvorak Heh. Yes. "All unicode characters except these few" is a big list indeed.
 
6:07 PM
@MarioGalic To be plagiarism you must provide the content and pass it off as yours, there are ways around that, like attribution.
 
I think the limit to SE answers is 30 kchar?
 
Unicode has ~65k? (Also, utf8 vs ascii filenames fun!)
 
more
 
@Braiam Ermm.. no. You can't just paste someone's Answer with attribution wihout adding anything. That's not really an Answer.
 
@Braiam ^^^ this. Once it's on the site the CC-BY SA-4 license applies.
 
6:08 PM
@Scratte Oh, but it is!
 
You have 2^20 charpoints defined, but not all are assigned
 
@Braiam We had this discussion before here. Pasting an Answer into a new Answer, isn't adding anything new or valuable.
 
@Scratte Reference?
Because the content would be deleted otherwise, so what it is: you keep a bad question with a good answer or get a good answer with a good question.
 
Ermm...: "As OP said in comments, this can be done with this piece of code:" Where's the Answer you copy'n'pasted?
@Braiam Ah, so you want to delete someone's Answer but paste it in somewhere else and give them attribution and a link to their deleted post.. ?!?
 
6:12 PM
@Scratte Nope, link their profile.
That's enough for cc
 
UTF-16 can only encode 20 bits in surrogate pairs, UTF-8 could theoretically handle 31 bits.
 
@JohnDvorak Yeah, I try not to get myself heart attacks using 16
 
@Braiam That does not work for CC-BY-SA. You must give the source, so you can't just not give a link to the source.
 
@Scratte All content is provided with CC
 
Here's the entirety of U+0x0xxxx as one big bitmap: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/…
 
6:14 PM
@Braiam I can see what you did in that Answer. And in my opinion, you went about it in a ..not very nice way. No links, not even a mention of the user. Just a reference as "OP".
 
FWIW, from a mod at the time, no attribution is needed for comments that are stolen into answers: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/288847/…
 
> There is no one right way; just make sure your attribution is reasonable and suited to the medium you're working with. That being said, you still have to include attribution requirements somehow, even if it's just a link to an About page that has that info. (from wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/…)
 
@JohnDvorak Hahah. If that earlier question wasn't closed you could have posted that as an answer. ;)
 
@NathanOliver Just because one person says you can avoid attribution, doesn't make it right, nor in agreement with the license.
 
@NathanOliver Yeah, that's about right. I at least provided author
 
6:16 PM
@Braiam No.. you did not. You wrote "OP"
 
They should have stored that BMP as a BMP
 
@Scratte OP in a Q&A pair is the original poster of the question (aka author).
 
@Braiam That's like linking to something and writing "by author of the linked content". The license doesn't say you can cut corners like that.
 
@Scratte No, because the source and the attributable content reside in the same page.
 
@Braiam The way I see it, that's irrelevant. You could very easily have put their actual username instead. You mentioned it came from a comment, which is OK. But the not actually providing the username.. I'm..
 
6:22 PM
@Scratte No necessary. Usernames can change at the drop of a hat. The only stable way to reference OP is by their about page.
You need to know the medium you are dealing with if you want to be technical about license on SE.
 
I always provide the username with a link to the account, for that reason.
 
@Scratte BTW, I don't know why I said comments, the OP edited the solution in their question.
 
OP = Question author? Not OP of the post, we're discussing?
 
@Scratte The OP of the answer is Braiam. The OP of a Q&A pair is the asker.
 
@Braiam I noticed this comment on your linked reference.
 
@Scratte I haven't linked that question...
 
@Braiam Sorry, that was NathanOliver
 
The complete glossary @Scratte meta.stackexchange.com/q/40353/213575
 
@Braiam I know the term. OP is also just Original Post. I expect you didn't mean a post wrote anything.
 
@Scratte Take it as a general knowledge about the sites. Sometimes we discuss stuff using SE jargon and can make the discussion difficult to follow.
 
6:36 PM
@Braiam I'm not confused about what you meant. I'm confused as to why you're using the jargon instead of a username. I'm even more confused that you edited the post without changing OP to the real username.
 
@NathanOliver That answer is... inaccurate. Attribution is required, both from the POV of CC BY-SA and in order to not be plagiarism.
 
@Scratte I'm confused as to why do you care so much. The user is aware of that. If they had an issue they would have contacted at least SE. The attribution I used enough that SE users know what is happening.
 
@Braiam I do not think that just because one can infer the author, that's it's valid according to the license.
 
If SE don't issue a guidance of how to properly attribute post for content curation purposes, they haven't seen an issue of what we do right now (using the answer box instead of the comment box for answers, moving content from the question body to the answer, etc.)
If I have an issue with my content improperly attributed, I know what tools are at my disposal to solve that. Otherwise, we are talking into the wind right now.
 
Eh; an answer just popped up, which wasn’t there when I first read it, though should it have been... Could an RO take out my request if they don’t see any close-worthy reason about the question?
 
6:39 PM
They have. They issues a blog. And.. it's in the license text.
Here's an example, even if it's a little old. "Template: “[Title, including link to original source]” by [author, including profile page link if possible] is licensed under [license, linked to license deed if possible]." The only thing you can cut corners on it the link to the license, as it's linked on every page.
..and here's what Stack Overflow says in the help about referencing "Provide the name of the original author"
 
@Braiam Please see How to reference material written by others, which contains a description of the minimum required for works by others. In addition, for works on Stack Exchange, you are required to give "appropriate attribution", which is defined here.
 
It also says "Do not copy the complete text of external sources". Some rephrasing should be done though, as this doesn't apply only to "external" sources.
 
@Makyen Yeah, I'm a little against no attribution. I normally use From @user_name's comment <quote of comment>. I do this because comments do get deleted and linking to them just isn't worth it IMHO. At least with answers they are still visible to 10K+ people, only mods+ can see deleted comments
 
@Makyen dang it, ninja'd while I went and looked up the CC BY-SA link. :;
 
@Makyen Your version is better :) It has the CC-BY-SA link :)
@NathanOliver I link the comment, even if it may be deleted. If anyone raises a flag on my post, the moderator looking at it will be guided directly to the comment, and can easily dismiss the flag. And if I do it like [comment](link) it's not even taking up space.
 
7:01 PM
@NathanOliver While I understand that George's answer isn't/wasn't intended to address what you're supposed to do when creating an answer from a comment, it's being used as a reference for that situation, which is unfortunate, as he's only describing in general what's possible for a 3rd party to have done, based on someone answering in a comment. The part I don't like is the cavalier attitude towards attribution which is demonstrated in comments.
 
@Georgy oh I remember that one
 
7:35 PM
@Makyen That's only useful for off site. Not for within the same page.
@Makyen "There is no one right way; just make sure your attribution is reasonable and suited to the medium you're working with. That being said, you still have to include attribution requirements somehow, even if it's just a link to an About page that has that info." (from wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/…)
 
@Braiam Regarding moving answer content from a question to an answer proper, and how to attribute ownership fairly, I asked a Meta question about that: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/356951/…
 
@halfer Well, it seems that I'm preaching to the choir :D
 
{halfer sings a squeaky song}
 
*giggles*
 
I've done a lot of answer-material moving (~400 answers). I have changed my boilerplate intro when I post someone else's answer as CW in response to feedback.
 
7:47 PM
BTW, if someone uses Firefox in Linux, you may want to check out this bug bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1657009
 
@Braiam noted, but I don't use the feature nor twitch
Want me to test it?
 
@AndrasDeak I will use a pointy stick if you don't, otherwise it is voluntary :)
 
@Braiam It doesn't affect me personally, but if it's useful to you to reproduce it then I can check. I'm on 80.0b5 too.
 
@AndrasDeak If you can and want, yeah, do it. I try to reproduce bugs other people report too :)
 
@Braiam No, it's just as worthwhile for things being quoted within a page as it is for things being quoted from off-site. Yes, you can take some shortcuts for things that are within the same page, but completely ignoring the requirements isn't one of them. Note that while people do take shortcuts, that doesn't mean that the shortcuts are actually permitted under the CC BY-SA licenses, the terms of service, or the referencing requirements linked above.
@Braiam The statement "suited to the medium you're working with" is intended to allow for the differences between things like print publications vs. web publications, where there's an extreme lack of space (e.g. a comment on SE; twitter), etc. It's not intended to allow you to blow-off the attribution requirements, just because you feel like it when the medium you are using is fully capable of supporting full referencing and attribution.
 
7:57 PM
@Makyen I recommend you to read halfer question rather than continuing this discussion meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/356951/…
I dropped the topic already. If there was an issue SE itself would already gave us the heads up.
 
@Braiam "If there was an issue SE itself would already gave us the heads up." - that is incredibly naive.
 
@Makyen That's a practical solution.
 
@Braiam can't repro
I'm not logged in to twitch but that should not matter
 
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