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1:10 PM
Did the post notice have anything to do with the bottom of this post?
 
@AnnZen I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking if the names of the close voters stopped being shown to the author of the question because of this question? No, the change was in the works longer than that.
It is actually a change that I pushed for and got on the agenda..
But you can think of it being inspired in spirit by people editing abusive rants about specific close voters into their questions.
 
Now all we gotta do is hide the names of those terrible meanie editors who keep tidying things up!
@Andreas Ha ha, very good
"Mod just made me grumpy"
 
Wouldn't you need a diamond to indicate "mod"?
 
@halfer «I am getting sad» is what I meant, but hey, šŸ’Žāž”ļøšŸ˜£ works too. šŸ„³
 
Is this NAA or can it be salvaged somehow? stackoverflow.com/a/63095206/1839439
 
1:25 PM
@Dharman Iā€™d say salvagable.
 
I can't tell if that's just saying "thanks", or if it actually adds new information.
 
āŒšŸ—‘
 
@Andreas That diamond looks hard and unforgiving, and I can see right through it.
{giggle}
 
@Dharman edited
Still looks like a NAA. Had to hammer it way out of what is usually needed.
 
@halfer At least itā€™s transparent. These are too: šŸ‘“
 
1:36 PM
True šŸ‘
 
the post still says Viewable by the post author
 
The post author still sees everything they did before, and everything you do, except the names of the close-voters.
 
I see the names. It says Viewable by the post author, which grammatically means the OP can see the names too.
 
@AnnZen Do you see the close voter's names here?
 
1:48 PM
I am aware that users can't see the names. I'm just saying the message is inaccurate.
 
@Machavity I'm so happy for your diamond :'D
 
@AnnZen I don't disagree with the fact that the text is inaccurate. BTW: I am interested to know if you see the names on that post, because I'd like to know if the fact that you're >3k supersedes that you're the OP, or if they still hide the names from you.
 
hidden
 
Thanks.
 
Do you know why it needs more focus?
 
1:52 PM
@Makyen Oh, that's a good point. Interesting that they made the decision they did.
I'm not sure the message is inaccurate. I think the message is referring to the detailed reason/explanation of why the question was closed.
 
So you need two accounts (or a data query) to find out who closed your question?
 
@CodyGray Hide the detailed reason/explanation of why the question was closed??
 
You can see it in the edit history - does the OP also see the names there?
 
@JeanneDark yes
 
Thanks!
 
1:55 PM
@JohannesKuhn that would be a violation of benign sock accounts
"use your sock for something your main can't do" is illegal
 
@AndrasDeak They don't interact, I don't see the problem.
Your main can. If you know some sql.
 
@AnnZen I haven't looked at the question. It was just the first in your list of question I saw which was closed.
 
@JohannesKuhn Yeah, and note that your second account would need to have the close-vote privilege (3k+ rep).
 
But if you edit it after the grace period, it will have a viewable edit history and you can see them,
 
@CodyGray Or not. Looking at the timeline is enough.
 
1:58 PM
@JeanneDark Even when there's no "edited" link in the bottom center of the post, the revisions view is always accessible by URL manipulation.
 
You can press the timeline button below the vote buttons as well.
 
So basically plenty of workarounds?
 
@JohannesKuhn Yeah, what I don't remember is if they are hiding the close voters names from the timeline for users with <3k rep.
 
@CodyGray Nope, i can see them
 
This is not really trying to keep official secrets. It's just trying to prevent users who are unaccustomed with how Stack Overflow works and the purpose of closing questions by going and taking out their rage on a list of individuals shunted in their face.
 
1:59 PM
@CodyGray Not sure, but using a private window, it shows me them.
And I don't see a reason why this should be shown to non-logged in user, while hidden for a logged in user.
 
Yeah, if it's shown to anonymous users, then it's definitely shown to the OP.
 
It's like searching on a site as a user with no account (captcha) and not logged in at all
 
But they'd have to go to the timeline view, and hopefully someone who knows about the timeline view and what it means will know enough not to get angry at the close voters.
 
Yeah, most help vampires don't do research. They prefer to complain on mso first.
 
We know how to take care of them there. If we can get them there, there are no problems.
 
2:02 PM
@CodyGray It's inaccurate, even if discounting the show/no show of the close-voter's usernames. While the intent is that those two sets of text cover what the users can do to improve the post to the point of being reopened, the text contents are separately defined and are intended to diverge. They are actually different in at least some cases. Other than noting that there are differences in some cases, I haven't gone through them to check what percentage of them are different.
 
@Makyen What I will agree with for sure is that that's a stupid design. Even the icon is terribly chosen, and even worse is its position. It isn't at all clear what it is referring to. But I think we've made these arguments already.
 
@CodyGray One gets the impression a lot of decisions are made by people not really using SO
 
It isn't a mere impression.
You should be careful, you are starting to sound like me when I go on rants about these things. :-)
 
I will stay low-key
 
2:05 PM
@AndrasDeak One of the significant points of having one or more sock-puppets is to have an account that can do things your main account can't do, or at least interact with the site in ways that your main account can't do. For example, I've routinely used a sock-puppet to see what the close-flag dialog looks like to < 3k users, which is something I can't do with my main account that has >3k rep.
It's enriching yourself, interacting between the accounts, in inappropriate ways, etc. that is not permitted.
 
@CodyGray So your rants should have consequences.
 
@Andreas I'd prefer to keep my diamond for now, thankyouverymuch.
 
user12867493
Can a mod please provide some insight into this?
 
@CodyGray šŸ˜šŸ˜‘šŸ˜¶
 
How can you have that many faces?
 
2:17 PM
Theyā€™re different states.
 
@Daniil Should that answer be a comment? Would I be dinged if I gave it a "low-quality" answer flag?
 
user12867493
@DontKnowMuchButGettingBetter Yes you would, it should be a comment but since mods rush through the flags we have no choice but to let low-quality content stay
 
Sorry for being a bit off-topic, but I joined the Charcoal SO team, and now the search is so different. My default search result of newest unanswered questions is gone. Is there any way to revert that behavior other than leaving the team?
@DontKnowMuchButGettingBetter Seems like a terrible answer, but it is an answer.
 
user12867493
@IanCampbell Switch to "public" in the search bar
 
@IanCampbell Exactly, which is why it is not "NAA" but is low-quality
 
2:26 PM
@IanCampbell Nope! Joining a Team breaks the SO interface you knew and loved in myriad ways, with no possibility of going back. Welcome to the fun!
 
user12867493
@IanCampbell It's a dupe answer which should be deleted according to the help center but apparently, every mod has their own policy
 
@DontKnowMuchButGettingBetter Why should it be a comment? Doesn't it provide an answer to the question?
 
Answers to (blatantly) off-topic questions given by high-reputation users are usually downvoted because the answerer shouldā€™ve known better; flag, not answer.
 
user12867493
@CodyGray Please handle flags with care or get more mods (in the nicest way possible)
 
@CodyGray: I suppose, but it looks so "throw-awayish"
 
2:27 PM
@Daniil No, this is universal policy for all the moderators. I'm statistically more likely than the other mods to indulge VLQ and NAA flags.
 
Ugh! It's a tough choice... probably leave the team
 
@DontKnowMuchButGettingBetter I don't know what that means. What makes it "throwawayish"? I think you're having the same problem as @Daniil: getting hung up on the answer's length.
 
user12867493
@CodyGray Then can you delete the dupe answer?
 
Why should I do that?
Because you've been so nice about it?
If you want an answer deleted, raise a flag.
 
Most people would argue the appropriate response to a low quality answer is to down vote it or vote to delete if you're 20k+
 
2:29 PM
@IanCampbell store the direct link in your browser favorite: stackoverflow.com/unanswered
 
@CodyGray by "throw awayish, an off-hand remark made to an off-topic question. Yes it answers the question but .... well, nvr mind. I'll just vote on its quality as I perceive it
 
user12867493
@CodyGray I have, at least I haven't barked at any one specifically for it
 
@rene Oh, that's a good thought, I'll try to construct a link version of my most used search
 
user12867493
@CodyGray Why? Because you want to decline it and ban me from flagging?
 
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration, and I should hope you know that.
 
2:30 PM
Ciao all! Have a great Sunday!
 
user12867493
Finally, someone who can give a normal answer:
 
user12867493
> Please do not use the VLQ flag on answers for anything other than gibberish, Link only answers or Non English posts. If it is a duplicate answer, use a custom moderator flag to indicate that it is a duplicate and specify clearly as to what the original post is. ā€“ Bhargav Raoā™¦ 8 secs ago
 
@Daniil Duly noted
 
@Daniil I'd respond to that in kind but I don't want to risk being seen as rude :)
 
Umm... kinda confused about how Bhargav's comment is a "normal answer" when mine isn't. He said essentially the same thing I did, if not provided an even stricter definition of VLQ.
 
2:33 PM
gibberish gets red flags, as that just spam spam spam.
 
user12867493
@CodyGray He said it a normal way and tone
 
@Daniil Since you usually seem concerned with tone and rude messages: I'd like to inform you (read it in a passive, informative, objective, non-agressive tone): that message of yours came across as pretty snide and passively agressive. Probably not what you were going for, hence this FYI.
 
I would say I'm curious what was "abnormal" about my way and tone, but really, I'm suspecting that this is just trolling.
 
@CodyGray nope
 
2:37 PM
@Daniil please take take your disgruntlement elsewhere, at least not in this room.
 
I think the site has gotten some new buggy code. Profilesā€™ «last seen» are showing an earlier date than for when they posted a question.
 
@Andreas I've sen bug reports for that, on MSE or MSO
 
@Andreas I've always wondered what "last seen" actually means on a user's profile. Until now, I assumed it meant the last time somebody (else) looked at the profile.
 
I always thought it was the last time they were on the site. As in, last seen by the hamsters that run the server.
 
See - ambiguity. I don't like ambiguity.
 
2:49 PM
@IanCampbell āœ…
@rene Aha
 
@Andreas this is the best answer I think: meta.stackexchange.com/a/261614/158100
 
@rene Oh; thanks. Wouldā€™ve thought it was updated every time the user made a question, answer or comment.
 
yeah, that is not a strange idea.
 
user12867493
3:08 PM
I would like to apologise to everyone for the disturbance I caused and to @CodyGray for being rude with them. I hope you can accept my apology and we can move on
5
 
broken biscuits
 
I don't know, haha
 
Did somebody say biscuits? I love biscuits.
 
Shush, already!
 
@Daniil Thank you. I'm happy to move on.
3
 
3:33 PM
 
3:46 PM
RO (@rene) can the above request be changed to "cannot reproduce"?
 
@HovercraftFullOfEels I think you picked the one RO who doesn't have edit privileges for chat messages. :-)
 
@CodyGray: such would be my luck. Thanks
 
ROs can't edit. That's a mod-only privilege, as far as I understand. Recently, two of our ROs were promoted to mod. We would have loved to promote rene, but he seemed... firmly rooted to the ground.
 
I'm grounded ...
4
 
What we need here is some aeroponics.
 
3:51 PM
Ironic that the R programmer forgot an "r". Maybe you used them all up?
 
Did you say waffles?
 
It is Sunday morning. Someone should definitely say "waffles".
Preferably someone in my household.
 
@CodyGray So says the croissant-shrinker!
 
What can I say, I like small croissants and I cannot lie
 
It probably would have been easier to mistake if it wasn't a reference to the song Baby Got Back
 
4:01 PM
@IanCampbell Oh my god, Becky, look at those croissants!
 
I think NAA
 
This question has nothing to do with programming, does it?
 
too low rep to comment on the one above it I think -- or not. Huh, a new question really.
 
Thanks, flagging now
 
4:19 PM
@JeanneDark It could be if talking about an API. Question could be improved tho.
@JeanneDark One of these may be a dupe target.
Or, maybe, they should all be removed. shrug
 
It's tough, since there are so many questions, no code. It seems to be about submitting apps to google play only.
 
Can we establish some official guidelines what to do when people reask a question instead of editing the closed one?
 
4:38 PM
@Dharman Should be a meta question?
 
I can ask one if there isn't one yet.
 
I imagine it will be challenging to create guidelines because there is so much nuance.
 
@Dharman This is related
 
@Dharman Wouldn't the new question just be closed as a duplicate of the old one?
 
@AlonEitan Obviously. ;)
 
Ok, I think this might be what I am looking for: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/348738/1839439
 
@Dharman I'm glad you found that. It saved me a lot of trouble trying to type that into this character-limited textbox here.
 
Feel free to add anything that wasnt said there
 
I think Bhargav nailed it. First time, just go with the flow. Second time or on, mod flag
 
4:46 PM
So, in the above case should I do nothing? Because BR's post covers a situation when the post is downvoted but not closed
What I was asking about is if the post got closed and a user reposted it.
 
If identical to one that got closed, seems they're evading the reason for closing, so you're on step 2. If they tried to change something and repost in response to the closure that was a bit different, was it an honest attempt to follow instructions?
Personally I'd vote to close with custom reason "You already posted this and it was closed for X reason, don't repost." And then keep an eye on that user. YMMV.
 
6:05 PM
@IanCampbell Looks like I slipped up there. Oops.
 
It's good documentation, just needs some attribution
 
Yeah - but I should have checked the text using the Gray-Googleā„¢ Method.
 
I'm not sure about the Gray-Google method, but I tried the EZ Google method of just copying the whole thing and hitting search.
I'm not nearly as sophisticated
 
GG just uses a randomly selected portion of the text.
@IanCampbell Actually, the more I look at it, the worse I feel! The "See Algorithm below..." makes no sense in the isolated context of the post.
 
I certainly have slipped up before. That's why there are two reviewers. Don't be so hard on yourself.
 
6:15 PM
@IanCampbell But tag-wiki edit reviews are important, especially on high-traffic tags. Fortunately, I was saved by you and @Vega ... and the tag has yet no questions.
 
Itā€™s pretty stupid other users mostly canā€™t see the close reason...
 
@Andreas The view for us isn't much better: i.stack.imgur.com/xkW9y.png
 
@Shree Thatā€™s not a request for an off-site resource.
 
@IanCampbell If you're > 3k, you can determine the close reason from the post notice text.
 
6:23 PM
@IanCampbell Yeah, thatā€™s the same I see, just not who closed it.
The old, yellow post notices were much better.
 
@AdrianMole yw :) The tag has 1 question
 
@Makyen Indeed, I was just making a commentary on how the close reasons notices aren't actually very helpful.
 
@Andreas So, you can see the close reason text (the text below the first HR)?
@IanCampbell Yeah, that's something we want to work on.
 
Although I admit it's a challenging problem.
 
@Andreas ok Need More focus / Rec . Need some effort. I chose 1 slandered reason to close. I believe on effort.
 
6:25 PM
@Makyen I can see it for «needs details or clarity», mostly for «needs more focus» and «opinion-based».
I know itā€™s not showing the reason when closed for «request for off-site resource».
 
@Andreas But not the site specific/off-topic ones?
 
Yeah, I donā€™t think I can see the reason when closed for general software either. The «blatantly off-topic» is only available to flaggers, right?
 
Right, that expands into a bunch of other options for 3k+
One could type in "I am voting to close this question because it is blatantly off-topic" as a custom reason if they were so inclined
 
I also see: «not reproducible or caused by typos».
I often just see: «This question does not meet Stack Overflowā€™s guidelines».
 
I wish there would be a message next to the edit button, explaining that it is preferable that edits make the question openable and not just cosmetic (as i -> I, typo, etc..). The actual message doesn't explain enough
 
6:30 PM
@Vega 2000+ editors should be able to disable sending it to the reopen queue.
 
It'd be better if they just did this: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/398340
@Andreas For your information, this is what the two close dialogs currently look like if you are 3k+ First Page A community-specific reason.
 
@IanCampbell Thanks.
The flagging popups are a mess.
 
Belongs on another site provides options that will actually migrate the question to the target site if all three votes are for that option.
 
@IanCampbell Thatā€™s the same as in the flagging options.
 
@IanCampbell but only for 5 pre-selected sites
if it's none of those, then you practically can't use that option and need to manually type it
 
6:38 PM
@Vickel Thatā€™s very annoying. I often just have to give a link in a comment, and flag for «general software» or «blatantly off-topic».
 
yup
 
I read on Meta that some sites had been taken off that list, because they were getting off-topic questions migrated from SO.
 
The problem with migration vote is that most often the close voters don't know if the question is worthy to be posted on there in the first place.
 
There is a 10k+ moderator tool that provides statistics on migrations: i.stack.imgur.com/e3x75.png
 
Since the first rule of migration is: don't migrate crap.
 
6:41 PM
Honestly not sure why that needs to be super secret
 
Thatā€™s why the asker should be presented with a link to the siteā€™s «what topics can I ask about here», and close voters and flaggers should be notified when the question has been closed on the site it was migrated to. (Not auto-migrated. The asker chooses to click a button to migrate it, after reading the link).
@AndrewT. Not all is crap; just happens to be off-topic for non-quality reasons on the target site.
 
I don't migrate programming questions from Android.SE to SO because most of them are crap ;)
 
Weā€™ve enough crap questions in the Android tag here, so thatā€™s good.
Whatā€™s the worst tag? PHP? Python? HTML?
 
One thing I do if I end up finding a terrible question that has been voted to migrate to Cross Validated is writing a custom close reason. Even one non-migration vote prevents migration
 
I've heard PHP was bad enough...
 
6:49 PM
@AndrewT. Just ask Dharman.
 
I think probably has the most blatantly off-topic questions. At least the questions have some code and usually some expected behavior.
 
7:05 PM
I thought SD only processes a maximum of 5 commands...
 
The documentation doesn't seem to specify a limit.
 
Random question. Does anyone ever actually post a MCVE of their code, or is the request for one a polite way of saying "reduce your problem and you will find your bug"? :)
 
Seems like a questionably useful feature with a high chance of people inadvertently triggering it.
 
Perhaps it was a long time ago, or just my fuzzy memory. Was kind of a fun practice to combo-chaining multiple k and f back then though.
Anyway, I usually didn't ask for MCVE, but I told them to talk to a rubber duck...
 
!!/blame
 
7:20 PM
@AdrianMole It's Dharman's fault.
 
Ha!
 
See... it wasn't even my fault...
 
@DanielWiddis I see MCVEs quite often in the C and C++ tags. Code I can actually (and literally) copy/paste into my IDE and run.
 
@Makyen If had been privileged in this room, could I have just replied delete to that message immediately to fix that?
 
7:27 PM
@AdrianMole Fair enough. Guess I'm jaded enough with reviewing too many "needs debugging details" posts.
 
... doesn't necessarily make them good questions, though.
 
@IanCampbell Yes.
 
I had one today with 41 warnings in 43 lines of code.
 
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind if I make the same mistake in Charcoal HQ (I'll try not to).
 
7:43 PM
I don't know if it's a bad Google Translate, but that last spam message was for a "powerful spellcaster". Not what one expects on a programming website.
 
8:34 PM
@IanCampbell I think the term for "powerful spellcaster" is sudo.
 
Haha, indeed, all of my most powerful incantations start with "sudo"
 
8:46 PM
Not being a Python person, I skipped this. But, is a simple "wrong indentation" issue a worthy question? (I know indentation is a big thing in Python, which is why I'm asking.)
 
@AdrianMole Possible dupe for this: stackoverflow.com/questions/1016814/…
 
@robsiemb I'll leave it to the SMEs. But thanks for the feedback.
 
@AdrianMole I'm not that deeply familiar with the overall python tag, but I can see this question, as it already has started to, attracting a ton of low quality "fix line 11 by adding a space" type answers.
 
@robsiemb OK - I've started the process...
 
user12867493
Is it me or does this question look a little voting fishy?
 
8:57 PM
@Daniil viewed 33 times, 3 upvotes, got 7 (1 deleted) answers seems okay to me
 
The 3 upvotes on the question is not really surprising, assuming some of the answerers upvoted it. The accepted answer with 6 7 upvotes is a bit surprising.
Also, HNQ potential at the moment.
 
9:17 PM
@Andreas seems reproducible to me; where is the typo? Looks like a case of OP misunderstanding something rather than a typo.
@Andreas Creating python environments via command-line is definitely programming-related; v-env is even part of the official Python docs.
@Andreas Also not sure about this one; seems programming-related to me. At any rate, this one is outside our acceptable range of recent activity (6 months).
 
@Daniil It's Python. Either Python is one big voting ring or there is nothing wrong with it. I don't understand why people upvote Python answers so much
 
@Andreas Due to these considerations, I'm going to bin these requests for now. If someone can raise a good counterpoint for them (or if/when they qualify under our recent activity span), a cv-pls can be re-raised.
 
I can't see anything out of ordinary there
 
@Dharman It's a very popular community
and, from my personal observations, either there aren't many active close voters/moderator users (not elected moderators; I know Jon and Martijn are active) in that tag, or the people who have CV/moderation privileges in that tag have different viewpoints on what questions are a good fit for SO
 
We need more moderators
 
9:28 PM
@Daniil to piggyback off of Dharman, I don't see anything suspicious about the answer's activity. 7 upvotes in an hour in a popular tag is not that uncommon
 
@TylerH I clearly need to work on more popular tags :)
 
@Dharman Careful, you may yet get a phone call...
 
I wonder what are our two new moderators up to. I have seen some NAA flags handled with the new names already
 
@robsiemb Python, C++, JavaScript, and Android are I think the tags that enjoy the most upvotes. Of course, some of those are more difficult than others to find quality questions/answers...
@Dharman Well, Machavity is on vacation this weekend, but I imagine Makyen has been busy
 
@TylerH You can see here which tags are the most downvoted ones: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1256/…
 
9:32 PM
@TylerH Sure, but I can answer firebase javascript questions all day and not get 6 upvotes in an hour on anything. :)
 
The only way I see to combat the proliferation of duplicates is to hammer them faster. But it seems kind of hypocritical to have answer a bunch of duplicate questions to get that gold tag and then turn around and start hammering them.
2
 
@robsiemb yeah but that's firebase's problem, not javascript's :-P
Nice outlier there :-)
 
@desertnaut A: Wait until the spawned children get through their teenage years
 
@TylerH Mostly because the questions tend to be super specific and not general (not because of unpopularity of the tag), but yes.
 
@Dharman That query would be improved by being filtered down to just the top 100 or so language tags
@robsiemb Yep
 
9:34 PM
@DanielWiddis ???
 
Firebase was pretty popular in 2019/2020 so far, though, I think
 
@desertnaut communication breakdown... children... uh. Nevermind. Guess my humor dial is off.
 
@Dharman language tags ;-)
e.g. mysql, php, java, rather than mysqli, pdo, etc.
It needs that top-level domain filter for applicability
ugh, now they just added an "active bounties" section to the user page's summary area too
or some time recently
 
9:51 PM
 
@TylerH I found it extremely helpful that the system now informs me that I have never participated in any bounties. ;)
... otherwise, I would remain confused about that.
 
@TylerH I think this one was edited within the grace period. Anyway; I canā€™t respond in some time, now. Iā€™m coming back within an hour or two to take a better look, and look at the others, again.
 
10:21 PM
@TylerH Ah, no, that error is caused because the asker forgot to make attributes/fields/variables out of their nested classes.
@TylerH The reason why I flagged this, is because a duplicate question was closed for the same reason.
 
@TylerH No, thatā€™s not programming related. Such a question rather belongs on Server Fault (I donā€™t know if itā€™s off-topic there as well). Itā€™s about querying the server from the command line, not programming.
@TylerH Also; if I remember correctly: itā€™s already been established I forgot to check the activity for that one.
@TylerH Also; on a general note: the Python tag is full of duplicate questions of people that just have no idea what theyā€™re doing, when it comes to classes. Iā€™ve contributed with garbage questions about that to Python too. People are upvoting such questions in that tag, not downvoting. We need to close these kind of questions, or this is a lost fight. Hereā€™s another one. 2 upvotes. I think closing them for «typo» works for many of them.
@Machavity Why did you reject this suggested edit? I translated names in the code, not the surrounding text of the post. The code was written in my own language, Norwegian. I made exact translations of the names, as to not change any meaning.
Also; I changed the title. Iā€™ve done some Swift/Cocoa programming myself, so I know very well that an @IBAction method will be found in a content controller. If using the modern approach, itā€™s a view controller. Old approach: window controller.
 
10:53 PM
@Andreas not sure if totally changing variable names with the scope you have done here is OK
I would guess not
 
@desertnaut Why not? They are direct translations. Questions are meant to be of value to other readers.
 
closed question, -3 score... probably not of much use to anyone
 
It also makes the question clearer, and easier to understand.
 
should we translate TodasEstaciones here as well? stackoverflow.com/questions/63105560/…
 
@desertnaut Yes, I did leave a close flag on it. I cv-plsed it in here too. - but why reject it?
 
11:00 PM
@Andreas You seem to have followed the rules set out by When should I make edits to code? saying under "Do": "Fix typos (misspelled function calls, variable names, etc.), unless they are relevant to the question". It's no secret that I would like that as in a previous versions under "Don't" as "Fix typos (misspelled function calls, variable names, etc.), unless they are obviously not relevant to the question"..
 
@desertnaut Yes. If itā€™s a small edit? Not by a user at less than 2000 reputation.
@Scratte I havenā€™t read that before.
 
@Andreas The guideline as it's currently written just sets users up for rejected edits, if you ask me.
You'll need to go back to revision 7 to see it under "Don't".
 
Translation of variable names isn't considered fixing a typo IMO and you could potentially introduce errors by doing edits like that
 
@Andreas Generally in programming, variables names mean nothing. A good programmer should be able to tell what's happening without knowing what the variable "translates" to, especially in the example provided. So, from that perspective alone, I see no reason to edit the variable names, see mod Animuson comment here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/157752/…
 
@Scratte As itā€™s written now, Iā€™d say that FAQ answer says my edit shouldnā€™t have been rejected. I can however agree that I didnā€™t make the best edit summary. It was aimed at the asker, not the reviewer.
 
11:08 PM
@ChristopherMoore It does say "Code in questions should only be edited for formatting and readability." Some users find it hard to understand variable names in other languages.
 
@Andreas but I agree that sometimes (specially if there are a lot of not English variable names in a code block) it makes it more difficult to read the code, but then, most of times the questions are just LQ anyway
 
There was even a more recent post about mentioning foreign variables names to Question author.
 
@Vickel I disagree. Non-English makes it hard to read through, and therefore harder to parse the logic. Norwegian also has three more letters in the alphabet: «æøå». One of these was used. What if it was non-Latin? Even worse. Itā€™s also a small code block, and since I speak (write) the language myself, itā€™s easy to make sure I donā€™t change the logic/error, etc.
@Vickel Yes, the question is of low quality, but I still donā€™t see why thatā€™s a reason to reject my edit. I made sure to flag it, and also bring it in here to make sure it was closed. I did my duty. I also tried to be more helpful than required. If the question is deleted, I would lose my 2+ reputation gain anyway. So whatā€™s the damage from approving it?
 
@Andreas Because you didn't actually improve the post. Renaming variables might change the meaning for the OP as well
 
@Andreas don't forget, the whole edit looks really like interfering with OP's code
 
11:15 PM
@Machavity I donā€™t understand how it does not improve the post. Was there more to fix? Absolutely. I made the code more readable, without introducing changes to it, corrected some grammar in the text, and made the title more descriptive.
@Vickel Many things arenā€™t the way they look. I wouldā€™ve expected reviewing to take that into consideration.
 
@Machavity Can you advise how to write a huge custom flag and do it privately?
 
But you made it more readable for you. In terms of grammar, that's fine, but in terms of code not so much. They had a consistent nomenclature. You changed it arbitrarily
 
The change was just a translation that was consistent.
 
@Dharman As in the mod flag text doesn't have enough characters?
 
Yes
 
11:19 PM
@Machavity No, I already know the language, so I made it more readable for those that donā€™t.
 
Would a secret Gist be a good idea?
Maybe I should use Contact Us form instead?
 
@Dharman Yeah, I think Contact Us is probably the best way, but let me verify
 
FWIW I am asking mods to directly escalate the voting fraud to CMs, so yeah I think it doesn't make sense to go via mod flags.
 
@Dharman I wouldn't at this time. There's a large backlog right now (we got the mod team back up to par but we're still down several CMs). I would keep mod flagging suspected fraud
FWIW, the flag queue has dropped remarkably. People stopped flagging so much and several mods restarted activity
Fraud flags just take a while to investigate and take action if needed
 
@Machavity Is there a chance you could invite me to a private room. I don't want to share any details about what votes I am about to flag, but I am 99% sure mods can't do anything about it (I flagged it few times and got reply mods don't see anything) but today I think I think I understood the connection.
 
11:44 PM
In order for a mod to take action on voting fraud, the mod tools have to indicate there might be fraud (mods can't see actual votes). If our tools don't show anything, we have no recourse but to decline or escalate
@Andreas Why do you think that was spam?
 
@Machavity Because it was written like the dozens of spam weā€™ve seen before, was link-only, and seemed irrelevant. «Click the link. So helpful». No more description.
 
@Dharman Put it into a secret gist and put the URL in the mod flag. I'll be surprised if it's not handled soon at the rate flags have been cleared
 
@Machavity I'll do that. Compiling all the information will take me some time as there's a lot of votes
 
@Andreas That one was a basic NAA. They key on spam is the self promotion part. Spammers don't link their junk for fun. That's part of why Charcoal is invaluable. They dig the affiliations out
If that user posts that link over and over, or they authored the package, feel free to use red flags (although mod flags are better for providing context)
 
realizes he has 1 close vote left today, checks the list
 
11:56 PM
@Machavity I would appreciate if you could reconsider your stance at this, because I find your conclusion just simply not true, and it deviates from what seems to be the consensus.
@Machavity Iā€™ll take that into consideration. It was probably wrong of me to act on the impression I got from it. You can remove my flagging request, to dev/null, if itā€™s more appropriate than the graveyard.
 
@Andreas Resubmit it. The question will roomba, but I generally don't review suggested edits
Gotta run. Dinner time
 
What, moderators get time off to eat?
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