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00:01
How should this question be handled?
@NotABot Needs Details or Clarity, it seems to me
certainly that i.sstatic.net/KXYfV.png image doesn’t seem to offer much clarity
@sideshowbarker Yeah that image was quite something
@Nick Flag eating, yes.
@Andreas :-)
@NotABot I’m now kind of marginally curious what editor/IDE that is
00:10
Some VSCode IDE with serious problems, it seems.
It looks like they took a bunch of screenshots and shoved them all together
I think it’s just multi windowed in one IDE
Visual Studio, I guess (Based on Google image search of the icon)
more precisely "Visual Studio Code" (if that’s different from just "Visual Studio")
I can count 5 screenshots.
ah OK
well then I find it all less interesting I guess
@sideshowbarker VSCode, not VS. VS looks much more like a traditional Windows program. VSC is the «web design» version.
00:15
I thought that somehow actually showed their editing view, and then I was curious what sort of mind might be able to work in an editing view like that
@Andreas ah OK
Yeah. It took some time decoding that chaos.
No, there are 4 screenshots.
well then it becomes slightly more interesting with the fewer screenshots it gets down to
“fascination of the abomination”
4 stacked vertically. I thought there were two stacked horizontally at the top.
I wonder in what ways our minds might be affected by all the bad code snippets and nutty screenshots we look at, and the tortured language we attempt to make sense of
I guess we’re probably exercising some novel neural connections
@bad_coder DId you pick the right dupe?
00:22
Well, my brain’s a bit fried now. The most extreme cases are just funny, though. ;P
@DanielWiddis yes, either use anotations or typehints that's the answer
Wow, 44 45 stars. Pretty epic.
@Andreas laugh to keep from crying. But yeah there’s some entertainment value now and then I guess
and crossed-out fours are still just fours... *sigh*
k. Wasn't obvious to me, but I hate python :)
00:24
@sideshowbarker Sadly not enough. :O
Yeah, that's not a great dupe target
@Andreas Idea: we should have a Not Enough Entertainment Value close-vote reason
@sideshowbarker Definitely
@bad_coder I hope two suboptimal dupe targets make one good one :P Plenty of keywords to google between those two questions.
I'll follow the question just in case
If we leave a custom close vote reason at an audit, are they recorded in any way, or lost?
00:30
@AndrasDeak optimal for what? (that is the question...) If you find the perfect duplicate you may waste 5 minutes of your time on research. If you take more than 5 minutes, someone answers, the answer is accepted, and that's another Q&A that won't ever get deleted and pollutes search results...
@AndrasDeak I think that last duplicate was sufficiently on the bullseye...
@bad_coder Yes, and yet hammering a question with something that doesn't actually answer it is also harmful.
@AnnZen I don't think so, same as up/down votes are not recorded either
@AndrasDeak Martjin's answer was pretty good there, and the OP obviously had no conception of annotations or typehints...I'm always concerned about trying to find the best possible duplicate, not to cause a setback or confusion for the OP.
@Vickel oh.
00:38
@AnnZen Nooooooo
2
@bad_coder I can't see a single mention of type hinting return values on that Q&A, actually. Odds are OP needs something like def foo() -> int: return 42
In any case the two targets should probably suffice, and we'll see if they don't
Here’s more nonsene: ZzzMålConverter (Mål = goal/target)
you're right, but in my defense should the OP click Martjin's link to the typing module, first example he'll see will be:
```
def greeting(name: str) -> str:
return 'Hello ' + name
```
def greeting(name: str) -> str:
    return 'Hello ' + name
01:01
@AnnZen As far as I know, it is lost. However, the alpha version of the request generator may record it as your reason for closing and have it in the request reason field for cv-pls requests for that question. I must admit that it's not something I've checked on to see if it actually will be recorded.
01:16
Advice: 3-year-old code-only post, heavily downvoted, 2 close votes, in the edit queue. Someone's trying to add a few words around the code to improve the question, which would have been a good idea in 2017 but is useless now. Do I reject edit and if so, what reason?
or approve the edit to bring it within 6 month active window to cv-pls it :)
@DanielWiddis don't overthink it !
@bad_coder Well, there is the skip button. :)
@DanielWiddis exactly ... ':)
well it's approved/active now. Incoming... :)
@DanielWiddis skip...
01:27
I did
but had the other page open
@Andreas I know I'm late to the party, but I would have rejected that edit for the same reason. I feel like that Meta post you linked strengthens the argument for rejecting.
 
2 hours later…
03:08
@DanielWiddis @bad_coder Please don't editorialize about posts. We should not be encouraging people to pile onto posts.
@bad_coder Asking for upvotes or downvotes, even in jest, is not acceptable here.
ROs, Would it be a good idea, but also possible, to have a link to the backlog on the right panel? I am thinking next to the 'review' button, for example
@Vega Have you tried user script that adds the search buttons?
I don't use user scripts
I might be a minority, as many of you do use user scripts, so no need to consider my question :(
No, I think your position is a reasonable one. Unfortunately, I suspect the links are just too long to fit into the sections that are customizable.
@Vega that makes 2 of us. No user scripts for me.
@Makyen sorry, I thought of it after writing the joke.
03:33
@Vega I believe they have to be "non-deleted answers"
@IanCampbell You are right
:50043869 ?
@AnnZen There was briefly concern that you might be "involved" in the question you requested a close vote for because you previously answered it. However you deleted your answer 16 minutes before your cv-pls, making you not involved per the FAQ.
@Vega Unfortunately, the only thing we can put in that location are tags. We could adjust the room info blurb, but there's really not much formatting available there. Adding the link doesn't look too bad, but it does clutter it up. The only other option we have for modifying the room is to keep something permanently pinned in the starboard, but that has drawbacks too. I'll check with the other ROs to see what their opinions are wrt. changes.
@Vega Is there a reason you don't use userscripts? (i.e. if you have issues, it might be possible to resolve them, at least to an extent).
@AdrianMole Sometimes multiple randomly-selected portions of the text. Preferably portions that contain phrases that are statistically unlikely to occur other.
03:46
@AnnZen hey that youbute video you linked to "screen rants" is awesome. I can't get enough of those videos :)
@AndrewT. Thank you. We have enough of our own crap to keep us warm.
@bad_coder :)
@AnnZen barely an inconvenience :) wow wow wow. wow.
That guy has his own channel too.
03:49
@Daniil It's a bikeshed-style question. In other words, it's an easy question that almost every Python programmer knows the answer to, so they upvote it and jump to answer it. That's unfortunate, but not really fishy nor anything we can do something about. Also what @Dharman said.
@TylerH Machavity handled a big sockpuppet ring this morning: a great way to spend a vacation, if you ask me!
@AnnZen ohhh I haven't seen that yet. It must be really funny. His videos are amazingly entertaining.
@CodyGray how many did you catch? 30, 40? More...? You could say, but then you'd have to invite me to the gun rage and there'd be an accident?
@bad_coder In the specific case I was talking about with Machavity earlier today, I think there were 5-7 accounts involved. That's a relatively large network of sockpuppets. Usually, an account engaging in vote fraud only has 1 or 2 sockpuppets.
04:31
I figured it out Cody :O you need to take a 24 month hiatus from SO mod
then plenty plenty of social life and sports on a regular basis...
and prep yourself for buying a numerous collection of tiny Wayfarers that will progressively increase in size over the next couple of decades.
church on Sundays with the family for you.
@bad_coder How will that help anything?
In other words, you figured that out as a solution to which problem?
Should I flag this answer? It was only code, I suggested the poster to add an explanation, they answered in spanish and added a spanish explanation.
I would flag it
:-( That's unfortunate. I see no option but deletion at this point.
Flagging as VLQ would be reasonable for an answer in a language other than English.
I did not have VLQ as flag option unfortunately.
I would have needed a custom flag.
Oh, I guess it was too old for VLQ. Well, NAA would have worked, too.
They're the same.
06:37
But anyway, makes sense, I'll flag something like that in the future.
So... if they hadn't added the text, the Answer would have stayed..
To be clear, only flag it after it gets non-English explanation added to it. Code-only answers aren't really flaggable. You did the right thing with asking the person to elaborate. I...don't know why they got the idea to add an explanation (and a reply to you in the comments) in Spanish.
@CodyGray of course, of course.
07:25
@Vega what do you consider to be the backlog? Is that just a search for cv-pls?
"everything Cody hasn't nuked yet"
2
@CodyGray You are making me conserve way too many close votes. Thank you.
@VLAZ There's a whole queue out there awaiting your votes.
There's no such thing as close vote conservation except that you're supposed to always cast 50 per day
If I recall correctly from the 2020 mod candidates page, @Dharman was saying that they raise around 180 flags/day. HOW is that even possible? Like, what kind of flags? I cannot think of a way of raising so many without e.g. just browsing the LQ queue and flagging everything instead of working on the queue.
@MarcoBonelli Dharman has bots to seek out flaggable posts and comments.
@AdrianMole I see, that makes sense... is that open source by any chance?
@MarcoBonelli 100 comments flags and 100 posts flags. So they were slacking to get those last 20 in ...
oh. I thought they were using sockpuppets to bypass the flag limit.
07:46
@rene yeah I know it's possible number-wise, I was more interested in how an human could be able to look at so much content in one day.
Not sure about open source, but there's a chatroom where you can monitor the bot(s).
@MarcoBonelli sit in SOBotics ...
@AdrianMole oh, thanks, that's pretty cool.
Or, as @rene says, there's SOBotics (but I don't yet have 'sitting' privileges and have to remain standing).
Wait what do you mean by 'sitting' privileges?
Thanks for the link @rene
07:50
@MarcoBonelli Not sure, as I'm still denied them. I've heard they're quite nice, though. ;-P
08:20
Heh.. Question is asked in all caps. Someone points out that screaming isn't necessary, which is true of course. Only their username is quite long and in all caps :D
user12867493
08:40
@CodyGray Would you advice against answering such questions?
@Daniil Yes. I would recommend flagging them as duplicates.
user12867493
@CodyGray Well then all new questions are going to be duplicates :)
No... Not everything has been asked yet.
user12867493
Only from the non-popular tags
@Daniil New changes are a common cause of new questions
user12867493
08:49
@RyanM In some tags, in the popular tags you have to answer dupes to get anywhere
No, you don't. There are interesting new questions that come about in the "popular" tags all the time.
@Daniil I feel I should point out that I mostly answer [android] questions :-)
This was just asked in about a month ago.
The claim that everything under the sun has already been asked is silly and provably false.
user12867493
@CodyGray Meh, if I know the answer I just answer it
This is leaving aside the reality that technology changes, new versions of things come out, etc.
@Daniil You are using the site incorrectly. This is not how a knowledge base is supposed to work.
08:54
Deduping (without also answering) needs a better reward than answering and/or progress towards dupehammer power. (But is clearly the better thing for the site as a whole).
user12867493
Agreed ^
user12867493
There’s nothing in it for me to not answer the question
user12867493
A possibly helpful flag vs a couple of upvotes
Why does there need to be something "in it" for you, other than the satisfaction that you're making this site a more useful place?
user12867493
Because if I don’t get that satisfaction, I might leave
08:56
@CodyGray I'm not saying there needs to be something in it for me, but for the masses, its clear why they would rather answer than dedup. Higher rewards on the site, in many cases easier, and the gratification is likely faster. Not to mention that in this case, the dupehammer power is something that is "in it" for the site, so that people good at closing dupes can close dupes faster, but you only get it through answering things.
@CodyGray People respond to incentives, including recognition. Also, reputation is necessary to increase one's ability to make the site a more useful place.
2
@CodyGray Hell no, the point is not "making this site a more sueful place". The point is "helping others, make them learn, and in the process learning useful things"
The point of this site has never been to help others...
Stack Overflow is not a help desk.
Well, it is why I contribute, yes it is a useful place/community, but the satisfaction I get is when I help others
@CodyGray I wish to quibble with your phrasing: It is not to help others interactively. It is to help others by building a reference knowledge base.
09:00
Correct.
And dashing off low-quality answers to duplicates is helping no one.
user12867493
Technically it is, as said it can provide you with a dupe-hammer/CV powers.
@Cleptus the Meta thread What is Stack Overflow’s goal? should be useful here
Shooting yourself in the head in order to get medical care is a Faustian bargain.
@CodyGray Yet for as much as I don't like it, the site definitely rewards answers and punishes linking dupes. If rep is supposed to show your contribution, you're only getting it from answering, not doing any sort of curation. Moreover, dupes are the lowest hanging fruit as they can be very quickly answered. At the same time duplicate finding is not rewarded by the system (aside from few badges but none of those are for dupes exclusively) and even then you often are
2
further hindered by the search system which is another penalty for trying to link a dupe. Finally, there is the people who yell at you because the dupe you linked isn't applicable as it uses different variable names. So, the system is stacked (HA!) to punish dupe votes and reward just answering. The saddest part is that the easiest way to get a dupe hammer is to repeatedly and constantly answer duplicate questions which is the very opposite of what that badge is about.
3
Yes, so, complain about how the system works and try to suggest improvements, but don't just sit there saying that you're going to do precisely the opposite of what you're expected to do because you're lazy and don't care.
user12867493
09:04
@CodyGray It’s easy for you to say, you joined the site when there were still questions with no dupes
No, I didn't. There were tons of duplicates back then.
And there are tons of questions asked today that aren't duplicates.
user12867493
Nope
user12867493
I disagree
You just have to care. The site's entire operation is designed with an understanding that the users would care. This was, in hindsight, probably a huge mistake, because most users don't.
Is there any tracking MSO question about the wording of close reasons or specifically the "Needs more focus" close reason? I hate it. It basically never applies to what I'm using it for, even though it's the right reason to use in such situation.
09:07
@Daniil Its pretty cynical to be saying that there's only duplicate questions now. Its also pretty clearly not true, despite the high number of duplicate questions.
@MarcoBonelli I don't think there is any specific question. Makyen and I would like to revise the wording of some of the close reasons, so if you have suggestions, posting a new request would probably be worthwhile.
I really liked the old close reasons, before they changed everything into a mix of blurry and confused reasons. Dang it.
@MarcoBonelli agree
Anyway, thanks @CodyGray I'll do it if I have time to write something that makes sense.
today I very often find myself wondering "more focus or more details? Hmm..."
09:10
@desertnaut there isn't a single day that passes without me asking myself that question. So frustrating.
because in principle, if you lack focus you'll most likely lack details, too
VERY frustrating
@MarcoBonelli I have a bot that helps me find flaggable content. 100 post flags and 100 comment flags but I don't use all of them everyday. Even without a bot it's possible but you need to spend almost whole day on SO searching.
In the vast majority of cases, you're going to want to use "needs details or clarity". The "needs more focus" close reason is essentially for cases where someone is asking multiple questions in one.
+ nightmares of @CodyGray lecturing me on the (obvious) difference :)
@Dharman yep that's what I thought. I was not aware of that very cool bot.
@CodyGray "Needs more focus" used to be (IIRC) "Too broad" - which was far better. That covered cases of both multiple questions in one and those like, "Can you write a program for me that does this?"
^ that
@CodyGray I use needs details most often, but really, "needs more focus" is just "too broad". The description does not match its intended usage 99% of the times.
@AdrianMole Playing devil's advocate, having one close reason that covers two different things seems sub-optimal.
^ that, too
09:15
It's hard to find posts with multiple questions, it's a lot easier to find posts with a single, very generic/broad question.
So, the "Too broad" reason needed more focus?
@AdrianMole LOL
So...why not close those questions as "needs details or clarity"?
If it's generic and broad, then doesn't it need details?
I think I've seen a screenshot somewhere where the user had an option that was: Community specific reason > Blatantly too broad, or something like that. Did I just dream about it?
I agree (mostly). I use "needs details or clarity" most of the time I cast a CV. But some folks only read the first half.
09:17
@MarcoBonelli That would be "blatantly off-topic", which is what users without close-vote privileges see as one of the flag options. It's in place of where you have a textbox to type in a more detailed explanation for why it's off-topic.
@CodyGray I feel there are questions that are not salvageable through addition of details. Saying that they need details or clarity doesn't make sense because they are already clear, but too broad, and adding details clearly changes the question into something else.
@CodyGray ah my bad, that's it
The new "Needs debugging details" is a nice addition, though, so not all changes are bad things.
@MarcoBonelli Don't we want to change the question into something else, because the "too broad" version is not suitable for SO?
Stated differently: what should the user do to fix a question that is too broad? Well, if it's too broad because it's asking multiple questions in one, then they should trim it down to ask only a single question. But if it's too broad because it's vague/generic/asking for an entire app to be built for them, then they should edit in details that clarify the request, making it more specific.
...TFW you post a cv-pls and half a second later the post is deleted out from under you. :)
@CodyGray in case of multiple questions that makes perfect sense, yes. In case of generic/broad questions I see that users are most of the time asking those exactly because they do not have details to add in the first place. So what would you suggest, to wait for an edit for a week?
09:22
@MarcoBonelli No, I suggest closing them. You should never wait for edits. Close first, then edit.
The point is, how is "too broad" any better explanation for "you are asking us to do your work for you" than "needs details or clarity"?
@CodyGray yes, that's what I was saying. Close and wait for N days?
Every time I pick "Need details or clarity" for a Question that's too broad, it get's closed as "Needs more focus"
I still don't really get it. Why do we need to define N? It works just like any other closed question. The point of closing is to hopefully get the asker to edit the question into shape. If they don't, well, then, it gets deleted instead.
Yes, lots of people are still using "needs focus" as if it said "too broad". That's resulting in a very sub-optimal situation, where it isn't as clear as it should be why the question was closed.
But when comes down to having a flag made helpful or age away.. I go with helpful. I think they call it: Working with the system. This flag already has meta presence, and it didn't have any effect.
09:33
Anyway, I wasn't saying we should define N, that drifted off in the wrong direction. What I really was trying to say, is that I would rather have two clear and concise close reasons other than two vague and exchangeable close reasons.
@Georgy I don't really agree with that duplicate; the OP wants to shift selected letters in a custom sequence rather than all letters by a fixed distance
@tripleee if you feel like re-opening it, I am OK with that
@tripleee Which is what the Caesar cipher does? One just has to determine the alphabet to rotate over and what we ignore (numbers punctuation). In this case OP wants to rotate not over the complete alphabet but just a part of it. E.g.: stackoverflow.com/a/54590077/7851470
@CodyGray IMHO good options would be something like: 1) Code request == homework dump or zero-effort post asking for others to write code for you; 2) Needs details/clarity == it's unclear what you are asking or trying to do, BUT if you add details it can make sense; 3) Too broad == too many questions in one or too broad to answer in a way that is helpful to anyone.
@Georgy that's neat, but pretty obscure -- the new question has several interesting alternative solutions anyway, and the majority of the answers on the old one are confined to good old rot13
09:42
@tripleee We can reopen and just leave a link to the Caesar cipher question as a reference. I don't really mind in this case.
thanks, that seems like a good compromise
agree
@Georgy should we remove the request here, too?
@MarcoBonelli #1 is already a problem. Code requests are not off-topic.
@rene Could you, please, remove my last request?
@desertnaut Yep, forgot about it.
@CodyGray right, "Code request" is not a good title. More like "Begging for code"... e.g. question body is "Write a code that does X when Y" and nothing else.
09:48
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null upon request
@rene Nevermind! It's removed now.
@MarcoBonelli "Begging for code" isn't a great title, either. But I know the type of post you mean. So... what would make that type of post better? What else needs to be added to the question body?
What would be needed to make that on topic? Perhaps details about what they're trying to do?
@CodyGray yeah that's a borderline unfriendly title :') I'm still thinking about a good one.
Ha, knew you would say that, but in that case the details are really clear (since the question is basically a mini spec dump).
I mean, this is the problem. People say they want "effort", but that really has no value. I don't want to see a bunch of wrong code that you tried. That doesn't help me at all.
You have to show, rather than tell. The reason why "effort" is valuable is because it contextualizes a problem. It shows me how much knowledge you have, and exactly where you're stuck.
These are things that, I would argue, fall under "details" and "clarity".
or the classic "I tried cat file | ???? but I don't know what to put in ????"
09:53
@MarcoBonelli I mean, the thing that frequently helps is "Here is what I tried and how it didn't work" which are indeed details, but the generic messaging doesn't really show that this is the actual problem. The more typical reading would be "expand your specification" I think.
The larger point I'm trying to make is, the close reasons would prefer to say how to fix the problem, rather than just make a statement about what the problem is.
@robsiemb Blah, no. I don't want to see every wrong thing that somebody tried. How is that useful?
@CodyGray good point indeed, it's no use closing without educating users.
@CodyGray It allows you to answer and explain that answer in detail for the actual problem rather than just writing code for a blind specification.
@Georgy yeah, I'm getting ninja'd by all these diamonds ...
09:57
@MarcoBonelli Also its just frequently the easiest way to improve the question not the only way.
@robsiemb idk, I kinda agree with @CodyGray here. I don't want to see all your failed attempts if you're just blindly asking me to write code.
That would be different if the question was "what did I do wrong?", then it would make sense.
@MarcoBonelli I guess it depends on how these evolve. Many of the ones I've seen where there is initially no code turn into "what did I do wrong" when code is added. (Then again, many just add a function prototype with no body, which obviously is helpful to no one).
Yes, seeing attempts is only necessary for "debug my code" questions. But since these are the least interesting and least generally-useful questions, I prefer not to try and turn all questions into "debug my code" questions.
@CodyGray OK, thats fair.
I feel like questions turning into different questions are too easily forgotten and end up being wasted effort. If I were to do such a mistake that requires changing the whole question, I would just delete it and create a new one.
10:02
@tripleee you might want to review my edits to that duplicate target, I don't want to deface a good sign post
Everyone has a knee-jerk reaction to questions that ask for code to be written, but... most good questions here are asking for someone to write code for them. That in itself is not a problem, and certainly doesn't make a question off-topic. It's only a problem when the scope is not reasonably defined (e.g., you're asking someone to write you a Facebook clone).
@CodyGray they also often don't make sense when the scope is reasonably defined IMHO, e.g. simple homework assignments that are useful to nobody other than OP.
@oguzismail looks good to me, thanks
@MarcoBonelli They're useful to a handful of people every semester :)
There are two reasons homework questions are frustrating: (1) when you just have the question itself, you don't know what level of understanding the asker has, so you don't know where to start in your answer, and (2) homework questions often have silly and arbitrary limitations (like, you can't use a loop), which not only make them less useful to others, but if they're not stated up front, can make answering them like playing a game of Whack-a-Mole.
10:10
@Scratte I mean... do we really want to give that kind of help? Seems immoral.
@CodyGray couldn't agree more! Questions like that make my brain segfault.
@MarcoBonelli regardless of morality, you don't want to end up on the same team with one of these jerks once they manage to graduate
there are several users who post canned comments explaining the problems around homework questions, and several good meta posts unpacking the arguments further
@tripleee that's to put it more bluntly... yeah, agree.
@MarcoBonelli Depends on what they contain. I've seen some that can easily be rephrased to be more generic. Apart from that it's not really our place to police users.
But a search for "palindrome" only gives 9,747 results :D
This room should really be renamed "SO Close Vote Ninjas", I can't manage to click on a cv-pls link that isn't already closed.
5
@MarcoBonelli That makes you lucky. I've had several with a different outcome. Sometimes I even answer them.
10:21
@Scratte amazing
@Daniil Didn't we (the room) just discuss that this type of question was likely needs details or clarity not needs more focus? :)
user12867493
@robsiemb No-one discussed anything with me?
user12867493
@robsiemb Meh
@robsiemb @Daniil There was a discussion, but not a hard ruling. AS long as they're closed, it's not that important what the actual reason is.
@AdrianMole Yeah, sorry probably wasn't a useful comment on my part.
10:27
@Daniil uh, this seems very focused indeed? I would go with "needs LESS focus" if anything
10:43
@CodyGray Did you Whack A. Mole recently, or was it one of your colleagues? Either way, I'm not disputing the action - I was expecting it!
@SmokeDetector !!/whack @AdrianMole
... dang, not even an error message
(I guess Thomas will see it on his console though /-)
11:02
Is this programming related?
@IanCampbell I don’t see how the Meta post justifies a rejection.
@Andreas I don't think so
@Andreas computer says no
@MarcoBonelli Ha, I have had that problem a lot recently :=)
@Andreas It is a linux relted question, but not programming related
@tripleee I don’t think you should trust that computer.
Well, somebody just closed it, so I assume we must direct them to the Linux site instead, then.
11:08
Is WSL automatically on topic? Or depends on what kind of question you are asking?
@Braiam lots of WSL questions are pure general computing, like "why is the screen black"
(My personal opinion is that WSL is like an OS: everyone has to use one)
WSL? Windows Subsystem for Linux?
yeah, Ubuntu for people who are too unsophisticated even for Ubuntu
</ducks>
Ubuntu is the egomaniac debian based distro that takes most of debian and returns nothing
And I am not ducking :-P
11:13
@Cleptus open source is open source; my beef is more with how they dumb it down into the rubble
in many ways the success of the early iterations of Ubuntu was a big win for Debian, too
They did start allright, doing debian based distros very usable. Then they went crazy and became less usable. Grab a great stable distro, show how useful things could be... Screw everything some years later
I think that the biggest move that Ubuntu did for Linux was the Live Boot
I only use WSL because unlike PowerShell it doesn't butcher the colors
there's a magic incantation which turns off coloring in PowerShell but it changes between versions
Did did a nice propieraty drivers package install. "I see you have NVidia card, let me install its drivers". That is way user friendly
11:20
I don't want to turn it of. I want to make it work.
@Cleptus I would prefer if nouveau drivers were feature complete
I didn't get that far, just to the point where I was able to work on a white background stackoverflow.com/questions/35246709/…
AMD and Intel work OOTB :(
ConEmu lets you pick custom color schemes
I would prefer if NVidia could do a decent secondary GPU passthrough to VM
11:22
unfortunately you need to turn off backscroll if you want more than 16 colors
But those dudes do not do a proper FLReset
@Cleptus Oh, but they do, just that cost a kidney :)
@JohnDvorak wut
🤷‍♂
@Braiam No, not in gaming GPU's. Those all are not FLR capable
I swear I did blacklist fine the GTX1080, did all fine, and when I started the VM the host rebooted
My face was epic. How the f*** did they manage the reboot the Xen host? And even worse... How do you trubleshoot that
ANSI escape sequences for 16-color schemes are supported at all times and customizable as to what colors are meant. Escape sequences for 8-bit and 24-bit colors only work if you turn off the scrollbar.
If you don't, the console still recognizes them, then squishes them into the 16-color palette.
11:25
@Cleptus That's why, a kidney please :D
My only hope is that there would be something with a good efficiency/price from a nvidia competitor
In completely unrelated news, is there a way to prevent Firefox tabs from being closed accidentally?
Pin them
Is actually impossible to close pinned tabs
but then I can't see the title
Titles are overrated :D
Also, mid-click still closes them
11:29
closing tabs can typically be undone easily, it's quitting by accident which kills me
It's not hard to unclose them, the hard part is to notice I have closed it in the first place.
@tripleee you saying?
@JohnDvorak Probably there's an extension for that.
@Braiam DLNA2... If they finally release. But I am afraid of the money
TabMixPlus used to be an addon that allows you to lock tabs in two ways - no change of URL is one and no close. It also allowed many other configurations for how tabs looked or behaved. I'm not sure if it's still useful - it fell behind after Firefox started to get many updates and especially after it changed the extension system. I don't know how well or even if it's still maintained.
A US that listen onbeforeunload for all tabs should do it.
11:37
@Braiam that's a good idea, thanks
@Cleptus RDNA2*?
Right, cannot edit ;-)
@JohnDvorak What implementation detail is failing now?
12:01
I reverted the vandalism on stackoverflow.com/questions/59602007/events-operators-noevent but I don't quite know what would be the correct course of action on that train wreck; perhaps it should be deleted as an act of mercy
Morning
@tripleee Isn't it a clear case of "Needs details or clarity" for images of code?
hmm yeah, cv-pls for a start
12:51
impressive, closed within one minute of posting ... but then that is atrociously bad
Is "What have you tried so far?" considered rude?
@Scratte Who have you consulted so far?
@AdrianMole Good point. I can't recall exactly :) I should see if I've asked this before.
@AdrianMole I have searched a lot but nothing worked.
13:24
@Scratte Depends.
Are you asking constructively?
@VLAZ Funny. That sort of what the response in the Question was.
@Scratte Please give an answer. This question is not a duplicate of 'Is "What have you tried so far?" considered unkind?' :)
@Scratte It is discouraged as a standalone comment from Meta due to its association with other auto comments that were "not (actively) friendly"
@Scratte it's the most common type of answer. I find it better to either not comment or ask specifics "why didn't you use a loop" for example if it's the obvious choice.
An attempt is also not necessary unless it's a homework question, IIRC (or if it's a debugging question, but that's more of a "you need an MCVE" comment)
13:27
@TylerH why is it always the "nth" duplicate? Why not the fth or the tth?
Just to clarify. I didn't ask this in a comment on a post :)
@AdrianMole n is normal in math for natural numbers.
Are we normal here?
There's probably a 34.7th duplicate somewhere, but it's just very tricky to be sure..
What? Of course we aren't.
Where is "E_net4 is normal?"
13:30
@AdrianMole I am always abnormal.
@AdrianMole blame mathematics. Always using n as the thing to show "whatever amount".
@VLAZ What happened to x?
@AdrianMole x is real :) More than natural ;)
It's an "unknown value"
@VLAZ n is unknown too.. it's not not real.
13:35
Is i real? Or did I just imagine that it is?
@AdrianMole You just imagined that ;) What you think is real is impossible :)
@Scratte Conclusion, mathematics is an incompetent science as it's still grasping to find n and x. It has been for years.
@VLAZ Change incompetent to incoherent and I'm with you 100%!
@VLAZ Only most other natural sciences rely on it.. trying to find them :)
It's the journey that counts..
So, THAT is what mathematicians do with my tax money - go on journeys?
13:41
How else would you find n? or x?.. maybe they're partying with i while in a loop :)
@Scratte That would be a "do" rather than a party.
@AdrianMole That's very English.. I completely missed that opportunity :D
The answer reported by SD above is rude or abusive
@AdrianMole Good question
Well.. I'm absolutely normal. It's everyone else that's not :)
13:51
@Scratte One that hasn't drink from the well, I see.
I filter it first. Is that bad?
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