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00:01
I should've made up something ridiculous. "I really prefer a paleo keto resurge hybrid, myself. Also, five raw eggs every morning."
@RyanM 🤣 I thought about doing that too.
00:37
@IanCampbell but yeah, to your comment last night...I do CV queue review of almost exclusively Android questions. I don't think I've turned off that filter in quite a long time. I can easily get through my 40 reviews just in that tag, with very few Leave Opens (plenty of skips over Firebase questions, though). Fortunately the tag is well-watched by other curators too, so I have a very high close vote -> closed question rate, and many of the rest are roomba-eligible.
@RyanM I know nothing about Android, but maybe I should turn on the filter and try my hand at the ones that are so egregious that I don't need to be a SME.
@RyanM I know I shouldn't laugh, but the response you got on this one is too great. stackoverflow.com/questions/62688769/…
user10008009
@Braiam Sorry for my late response. Okay, thanks. Rough summary: Basic question how to start on a specific area aren't welcome on SO.
@krjdev They just don't work
@krjdev The problem is that there is rarely a "correct" answer to these sorts of questions, and Stack Overflow doesn't really do well with opinion-based questions to which there's no "correct" answer
user10008009
01:17
@Braiam @RyanM Serious question: Are there any other sites on the StackExchange network with slightly restrict rules for asking programming questions? And thank you for thinking my questions are spam. It's always easy to clarify an other opinion as spam. Notice for me: Avoid SO, directly ask in the mailing list of the project or at other resources.
@krjdev Serious question, who intimated that your question was spam?
@krjdev The Q&A model only works for a very narrow subset of questions you can ask about a topic, so I doubt it exists.
If you mean this comment we were talking about his response to this now deleted spam answer.
I sincerely apologize if you thought we were talking about your question.
user10008009
@IanCampbell Okay, sorry my mistake. I thought it was in the context of my question.
01:51
@VLAZ I should have responded in more detail: Implementing the display of any currently active request for a post is something I've thought a reasonable amount about. I've intended to add it to the Request Generator, but have not implemented it. I have worked a bit on some associated things in other scripts, which I'd seen as prototyping a portion of the needed functionality.
Basically, the Request Generator needs the information about all currently active requests in order to indicate to users when the request they want to place is going to be a duplicate. Once it has that information, it's a very short distance to displaying the existing request in the question/answer (e.g. as a formatted note at the top of the post).
I thought of a few/several different ways for the script to keep itself updated with the request messages available in the chat room, including some schemes where the URRS helps compile the list and communicates it to the script. However, I'd decided it really wasn't a good idea to force the use of both scripts. Anyway, doing so would be inconvenient, because communicating between them on different domains is non-trivial, but doable.
So, I'd gotten to the point that the script would need to keep track of what requests were in the chat transcript. The associated work has been a couple of scripts which fetch and share the transcript events for transcript pages. My intent was to use a portion of that code for the basic part of fetching and keeping the transcript events (actually only keep a subset). For parsing the chat events, I'd intended to pull the modular detections in the Archiver out and use those.
If you want to work on something, that's great. I'm happy to supply more information about what I was thinking, if it's helpful.
If your goal is only to have the display when you click on links from from chat (i.e. not display if you didn't get there from a link in chat), that's doable as an alternate way of having the functionality.
02:16
@krjdev to clarify as well, I don't think anything you've done is spam; apologies if it came off that way. I certainly didn't intend it that way.
Quite the opposite, in fact: a quick look through the questions you've asked all looked like good, well thought-out questions to me
 
2 hours later…
 
3 hours later…
06:55
Are questions like stackoverflow.com/questions/62697186/… that ask if anyone else is seeing a specific issue with a developer tool on-topic?
@RyanM I'd say no, it's about general computing or infrastructure. It's definitely not about programming.
I just realized that the change to CommonMark makes posts wide open to un-votes..
@Scratte un-votes?
Yes, since any edits means you can un-vote a previous locked vote. I mean up/down votes
That is a little disturbing. I'll have to go though all my embarrassing votes now to see if Community edited the posts :)
Gotcha. But I think that already existed didn't it? I've had posts of mine edited so that someone could reverse a vote prior to CommonMark.
07:06
@Scratte Unrelated: this may be small comfort/unhelpful for you, but I can assure you that you'll have a much higher close success rate once you can cast close votes, as casting votes from close review will increase the priority of the review and get more eyes on it.
@Nick Can you edit a post yourself and then change your vote?
@RyanM I haven't tried...
@RyanM It's not.. I'm afraid. I think it this room can't close it, then the close vote queue also cannot
Some of your posts definitely require subject-matter expertise to understand why they should be closed...like the SQL one I don't really understand well enough to be confident of a vote on. The CV queue at least potentially has people with filters on looking at things they know.
On the other hand, there are relatively few total CV reviewers.
I seriously thought that the change to CommonMark would leave the posts as if they were "unedited"
@RyanM You're welcome to ask though :)
@Scratte This completely scews the posts in terms of what votes are locked. I wonder if they even thought of that?!?
And since no notifications ever came to the users on that, one just get a surprise "Congratulations: -10 un-upvote"..
I honestly don't really understand the utility of locking in the votes anyway...
Like sometimes I make a mistake in voting. Why does it matter when I notice that mistake?
07:17
@RyanM Although I haven't done that, someone else did that to me, they accidentally downvoted an answer, came back later and realised they meant to upvote, then edited the post themselves and changed the vote.
@RyanM Yes, you can definitely do this. I've downvoted, then gotten more information from the OP in comments; edited the information into the question and upvoted.
@RyanM To avoid users going through their entire voting history to undo all of their votes?
@Scratte well apparently I can still do that, because I can just edit every post that hasn't been edited, since my edits don't require approval.
@RyanM But that would make very unanonymous, no?
@Scratte I guess, but who's going to have enough information to notice I'm doing it? I guess it'd flood the front page if I tried to do it quickly. Also, is this actually realistic?
Or...heck, limit me to five post-grace-period vote retractions a day.
I have 843 active up/down votes, I'm surely not that bored.
I certainly don't make five voting mistakes a day; that'd be more than enough.
07:24
@RyanM The user will notice you. I notice when someone edits my post and then whatever vote was there vanishes.. :)
I actually don't think anyone has ever edited one of my posts. Dharman tried the last time I made this comment, but apparently couldn't find anything in need of improvement :D
Now.. I just notice the vanishing vote
Speaking of Dharman, they're clearly a wizard...they've commented on this, and it isn't even tagged [php]!
My point was that this change is enabling anyone to go through their votes and un-vote any of their earlier ones from the begging of time, if it's on a post that was edited by Community. Which, among other things, are all post that didn't use a space in the #-header
@RyanM Did you mean to pull the Question out of the close vote queue?
@Scratte wut...no, does that seriously do that? sigh
07:32
@RyanM It would seem so.. it's says: review: "Completed" on the timeline
Dear SO: Just because I improved something doesn't mean I think the end result is good.
In particular, I'll strip the [android] tag off any CV review I see that isn't an Android question. Apparently SO thinks that means I'm voting to leave it open?
Heh.. but there's the idea that your edits are wasted if the Question is to be closed and forgotten anyway, no?.. I mean edits send them to the re-open queue, so edits should also remove them from the close, no? :)
That one is particularly bizarre because it has an actual close vote on it. I didn't think a single vote could punt something from the queue, especially if it has close votes.
In this case, I'm trying to send it to the right reviewers - people who know PHP. Or that's what I thought, anyway.
I don't now if editing a tag makes a change, but you also edited the title.
I've given it another CV, there's not remotely enough info to debug. Also there's a lot of redundant code (I don't think the Java helps at all).
07:40
Yeah, you're right. Commented and cast the third vote.
Good catch @Scratte :-)
@RyanM If it's this SQL request that you're not confident about, it doesn't require any SME at all. It's about a missing expected & actual result. And missing the definition and data of the tables involved. It even has an image of their actual result :)
I'm also a little confused about the review queue. It seems to keep giving me SQL Questions. Is there some functionality that will give users Questions in the tags that they previously reviewed or is it based on their profile tag points?
you have a filter enabled?
No :)
okay. IIRC the review query isn't personalized beyond the filter options you have. It does favor 'recent' reviewtask over older ones.
07:54
Is it just me or is this user's username insensitive stackoverflow.com/questions/62726580/…
@RyanM You are doing that. Whenever you choose "Edit" as your review action, that completes the review for that post (i.e. it kicks the post out of whatever queue you made the edit from). You should only click the big blue "Edit" button if you can resolve all of the reasons why the post is in the review queue. If you want to make cosmetic improvements, then open the question page in a different tab and make the edit there.
@rene Ok. Thanks :) I suppose there's just a lot of them then :)
@Makyen yep, I can see that now...thanks. I could've sworn I'd spot-checked one before and it didn't do that. Ugh, well now I know. Fortunately it's not an action I've taken many times.
@Nick I think it's fine. Not sure how it's insensitive. Comparing to "Influenza" or "CarCrash" or "HeartAttack".
+1 ^ it may be tasteless, but not offensive
07:59
@Scratte 525000 dead and counting?
@Nick More people died from any of the other 3 I mentioned.. So in comparison, it's not more or less insensitive.
@Nick I think it's out of place. @Scratte What about "Aids"?
Also tasteless, not flaggably offensive though
@akuzminykh Personally, that also wouldn't bother me. Neither could "Cancer". Even if they did bother me, it would be a personal issue, that I'd have to deal with.
(I'm assuming we're asking if it's so insensitive as to be flaggable, for the record. I think naming yourself after any major cause of death is at least tasteless, and potentially insensitive as well. But it's not, by itself, flaggable.)
08:01
@Scratte agreed, but not in the space of 3 months. I think someone who is personally connected to a victim might find it offensive.
@RyanM yes, that was my point. Now I'm going to have to search to see if there are any users called "Cancer"! :-)
@Nick That is true. But I can offended with a username being "Water", if my friend died from Cholera, no?
@Nick It's that also a zodiac? :)
@Scratte that's a bit of a reach... after all, it is cholera that killed your friend, not water.
@Scratte excellent! :-)
@Nick that's actually not true, far more people than that die of heart attacks. Of course, they're not increasing exponentially...
@Nick It was dirty water.. :) And only because there was no clean water..
I also don't think that this is flaggable. But it's out of place and keep in mind that SO has an "image" + it'd be just a nice disciplinary measure to make the user aware of that it is not tolerated. He is most certainly aware of the characteristics of that name and knows what he's doing by using it.
08:06
@RyanM I had no idea that number was so high...
What if I change my name to "Anti-vaccine"? Or "Sickness".. or "Deadly" or "Disease"?.. or anything that sounds like that? :)
@Scratte well, if you change it to "Vaccination" I'm sure you'll offend some people.
I'm running home with my tail between my legs...
Probably a lot more.. :D
I'm honestly more disturbed by usernames like MouseKiller or KillerOFluffyAndCute :D
@Scratte Maybe they're just hard on their pointing devices
I think all those 4 are not intentionally provocative but "Covid19" is. It's a greyzone, it's etiquette to not name yourself like that IMO ... but yeah, it'd be extremly harsh to punish that. :D
08:15
Not sure if that even counts. What about "DeathToUnix" ?
I imagine that "Covid19" is a researcher that researches it and needed an Answer to help them with their research :)
@Scratte That would be the plot twist of the century. :D
@Scratte there are definitely a lot of people who need help with their COVID-19-related Android apps.
@RyanM I don't understand those really. Like mentioning it would expedite or bring in more answers. I'm turned off by it.
@Scratte a few of them do that, but most are just providing background for why they're trying to find any Bluetooth device with less than a certain signal strength (remember to social distance from all your Bluetooth devices)
Good morning everyone.
08:30
@bad_coder it's almost dinner time! You're late! :-)
@Nick hahahah yeah, you gotta love chats like this :) Bon Appétit. It's Saturday and I'm having my morning coffee
Almost dinner time? Late night snack, you mean! :-)
I guess we have at least 3 different continents...
If the big shade would just go off and on, instead of rotating on this flat earth, we wouldn't even be arguing. I think I need a feature-request to the disk-creator.
Yes we do.
@Scratte "the big disk creator" I never heard that one before. It's good humored I like it.
08:36
@Scratte is that a meta post?
I'm assuming they're still active. Who else would be winding it up for the shade to continuously work? It probably also needs oil on occasion :)
@Nick It's a bit tricky to push the submit button though. It's a bit far away and looks like cheese. I think the first person to be close enough was a guy named Neil, but he forgot to write up the request before pushing the button :(
@Nick I wouldn't say "insensitive" but it's a poor choice. Some one could ask him in the comments if he'd perhaps considered changing it to something else.
BTW @Scratte: you had mentioned that the Microsoft Store made you create an account before installing software. Having recently installed some, it doesn't, but it uses dark patterns to make you think it does. Simply close the dialog and it will proceed without an account.
08:55
@RyanM I'll try that next time. Last time I tried to install Paint3D, and I ended up creating a bogus email account to make it happen..
@RyanM Did you both clean your hands after using the store?
@Braiam I haven't checked on the Dominican Republic elections outcome, but I've read up (again) on the country's history...Quite interesting and mind-boggling for a European...
@bad_coder Really? What part?
@Braiam EVERYTHING !!! (and that's what's so striking...)
09:03
Hahahaha
Remember that as a country and territory, we are relatively young and unattractive, while europe is neither.
@Braiam not unattractive at all...quite interesting!! Your 20th century history is very contrived and full of dark periods (Europe had the same, and worst...But the difference is I'm used to commenting on European history, while commenting on Central American history would be nearly impossible.)
@Braiam one thing I can say: I'm looking forward to reading Juan Bosch. That's a really noteworthy detail, the connection between politics and literature/poetry in your history (it's hard to find clear and significant parallels in that regard.)
Should this be closed and, if so, what with? stackoverflow.com/questions/62185179/…
@DavidBuck What's with frameworks redefining the language. How the heck an user would infer that "native profiles" is literally "local files"?
And, no, what should be done is delete the answer, it's commentary.
I have no earthly idea if that question is clear or not, but apparently the comment answered it? so maybe it's clear, and the comment should be converted to an answer.
The asker really should have done its research, with duckdurkgo I found the answer in spring documentation.
09:17
That's why I asked. Not my area but it doesn't look like a good question. And obviously it's an NAA.
I'm with @Braiam with this one. If we're going to invent new words for every other thing we know then all questions will be unclear.
@rene I'm not against inventing new words for new things, but things that already have words to define them we shouldn't reinvent them willynilly. I would call that feature local profile and be done with it.
So, I guess it's done. A single downvote has been cast so it'll get Roomba'd and NAA on the answer.
@DavidBuck Nope, the accept mark prevents deletion.
@Braiam that answer is not long for this world
09:21
Exactly
Should this java question be closed? I left a comment, but I'm not sure if it's unclear enough really.
@Scratte Are they trying to write the heapify method (title), test it (body), or fix a bug in it (implication)? I assume "cant change the methods or variables" means the function signatures, but that's definitely a guess...
09:37
@RyanM Excellent point.. that is definitely unclear.
I'm out of close votes, though. I spent my last one selecting the title of someone's question, right clicking, and clicking "Search Google for..."
@RyanM Wait..?!? How does that spend your close vote? :)
Feature request: if a question is closed as a duplicate of a question that's the first Google search result for the exact title of the question, the asker has to type "I will search the internet before asking questions on Stack Overflow" five times before they can ask another question.
@Scratte Well, I then copied the question ID into the close-as-duplicate box...
@RyanM Oh.. I just that took that very literal :D
I imagine that it would be fraud to have separate accounts to put more than one close vote on a post, but is it bad to have two accounts and use close votes on 100 different posts a day?
Is there actually a way to list all question that duplicate a question? E.g. I have this question and I want to list all the questions that were marked as duplicates of it.
09:47
@Scratte Yes, it is allowing you to do perform actions you could not with only one account, which is the rule :-)
@RyanM Hmm..
@akuzminykh There's a link below all the listed linked posts on the right side, that says "See more linked questions"
@rene that's close but includes questions not actually closed as duplicates
Per Shog, the most reliable way is SEDE: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/217415/…
@Scratte Ahh, nice, thanks. :)
@akuzminykh note that the caveat I gave applies to Scratte's solution as well
09:52
@RyanM for once I didn't want to link to SEDE ... :/
sede all the way baby :)
SQL: the cause of, and solution to, all of our problems
@RyanM Whoa, didn't know we can do queries just like that. I like how "open" SO is. :)
:D yeah, it's pretty great. I've bumped up against some limits to what is available, but for the most part, everything is there.
@akuzminykh SEDE also has a tutorial: data.stackexchange.com/tutorial it is a bit hidden in the help.
10:04
I've been reimplementing most of the reputation calculation as an SEDE query, because apparently I'm insane.
It works for my user, at least :D
It doesn't work for anyone who's done any number of things that I haven't, though.
(really it's part of a pet project that may eventually lead to another "what if reputation worked differently" meta post)
(also, by "works for my user" I mean it works except for downvotes on answers, which aren't anywhere in the data)
@RyanM Wasn't there also an issue with the daily cap? :)
@Scratte Not for my user :-p but yes, it doesn't implement that (yet?). Or bounties paid, +2 for accepting other people's answers, rep from deleted posts (not in the data), red flags against your account (not in the data), documentation contributions (not in the data), or answers you've downvoted (not in the data).
10:23
@RyanM What I really like about your project, except for the project itself, is that you'll become an excellent curator for the SQL tag :)
@Scratte No, I'd need far more close votes to do that and Android :-)
@RyanM There's a fix for that in the opportunity presenting in only 2 days ;)
I'm pretty sure I'm actually unqualified due to lack of Meta participation
Hmm.. is there a rule that merging of accounts have to be from the same user? :)
10:45
Any guesses on whether this will be declined as NAA? The first part of the answer is really an aside, but the part that addresses the OP's requirement is just a non-English YouTube video... stackoverflow.com/a/62727820
!!/8ball
@JohnDvorak No such command '8ball'.
FR
!!/flipcoin
@JohnDvorak No such command 'flipcoin'.
@DavidBuck It will be marked helpful
However, don't read too much into it because you really should have used mod-flag.
or none at all, because an automatic flag was already raised
10:50
@Dharman Mod flag for non-English link or multiple posts?
@DavidBuck YEs
Spamming the same post twice is something that mods should be aware of regardless of content. The link is undesirable but it does not make it NAA. However, the flag is actionable since a mod should delete one or both of these answers.
So to sum up. I don't think NAA flag was appropriate here. You should have used mod-flag and explained "This user posted two identical answers linking to a YouTube video. Possible spam!" but the system already raised that flag so you could just leave it be and come back in 24 hours to see if the answers got deleted.
Nevermind I read that wrong. Still, if you answered it I don't think this room allows you to ask us to reopen it.
11:07
@Dharman Doubling up on flags isn't a huge deal. Doesn't create any more work for mods, really, as handling one of the flags will handle all of them. That frees you from the burden of having to think about whether an auto-flag would have been raised.
@WiktorStribiżew Just be aware that, according to the official room rules, you really shouldn't be making [xxx-pls] requests in here for posts in which you are involved.
@CodyGray and yet I've seen flags declined for duplicating autoflags
@JohnDvorak wut?
or, heard of at least.
@WiktorStribiżew Good old email validation using regex. Isn't there a RFC that literally put the issue to rest?
11:16
@AdrianMole Be aware that those rules also discourage non-ROs from pointing out those rules!
@AdrianMole Oh.. I should be punished along with you then :(
@AdrianMole They do? Where is that?
What is the the rule about RO ruling on rule violations?
@CodyGray Rule #15 under "SOCVR Regulars": Don't jump in saying that such requests are not permitted.
@AdrianMole I read that as plea to not jump in on a conversation that's going on already or being abrupt with the information.
Well, I jumped but, hopefully, it wasn't a very abrupt jump.
11:22
@AdrianMole Loop hole: I am not (yet) a regular, so just ping me and I will post the message for you ;)
Yeah, that's how I took it... More of a "don't pile on". If there's no RO around, I don't see a problem with a regular gently correcting. But, well, I'm not a RO, so I don't make the policy either.
hehe
@CodyGray I think your ♦ makes you irregular.
@AdrianMole Oh yeah, for sure. I didn't mean me. I can do whatever I want. :-p
@AdrianMole that is more meant for new users to the room.
@rene So no penance, then?
11:27
not for now.
@AdrianMole Standard penance is reviewing 3 questions in H&I. Consider this a warning. ;-)
@Scratte I promised to update you on yesterdays NAA flag story: It was marked helpful
@Vickel Thanks. I monitored it as well.. and smiled when it went pink :)
@CodyGray Who hurt you?
11:34
@Braiam Nobody. Adrian was worried he might have violated a rule.
One of our regulars just got the Steward badge for the H&I queue :)
I'll get the holy water...
Thank you :)
11:49
Hi! On Meta SO, how to flag off topic questions (e. g. programming questions)? Would that be "Needs improvement" -> "A community-specific reason"? The new dialogue is a bit confusing, so I stopped flagging.
The Privileges page and the links there were not so helpful.
@JeanneDark Yes... Needs improvement -> A community-specific reason -> Not about Meta or SE
VLQ would probably be fine, too
@CodyGray Thank you!
That does end up being confusing when you're flagging questions that cannot possibly be salvaged
Anything in the "Needs Improvement" are closing flag, no?
And dialogs with nested options (in this case, 3 levels worth of nesting!) don't make it very straightforward to review all the choices and pick the one that makes the most sense. I had suggested putting all the close reasons in one dialog, but that wasn't a popular suggestion.
@Scratte That's correct. "Closed" was renamed again.
11:53
Utterly confusing.
Well, I don't hate it. "Needs improvement" is an adequate synonym for most uses of closure.
Unfortunately, the UX also "needs improvement"
So one can also choose options there without going to "A community-specific reason" :)
Yeah, I wanted to inline all of the community specific reasons
Just call everything "not suitable for this site because..."
@CodyGray I agree everything is not suitable for this site
I've added CSS to my dialogs that appends "should be closed.." to the "Needs Improvement" text
@CodyGray That is the only thing that makes sense. I had to copy'n'paste them all into a file to understand what the different options were and how to get to them.
11:57
Kinda seems pointless. If you know enough to modify the CSS, you already know...
@CodyGray But I like to see it :) And.. if a new user finds the CSS changes in the post of mine on meta (Yeah, I get it.. never going to happen), then it may remove some confusion :)
Ahh, I was wondering why I can't delete that. It's not 48 hours yet. I think I need more coffee or more bed
Yeah, you haven't run the moderator election yet
I've been wondering about that. It's almost like being a kid the day before Christmas. Who that I "know" is going to run :)
Better yet who is going to win? Who is finally going to handle my flags.
12:05
I thought that would be you..
Hmm, would winning an election automatically mark all your flags helpful?
Would be "fun", some CM sets the "isModerator" flag and 200 posts just disappear ;)
But of course, that wouldn't make much sense.
But do newly elected mods typically handle their old flags themselves, or is this discouraged for some reason?
I...don't know
0
Q: I don't view [mvvm] as a model of a good tag

Ryan Mtl;dr the mvvm tag is either a meta-tag that's irrelevant the questions it's attached to, or a subject that's off-topic on Stack Overflow. Either way, it should be burninated. Burnination criteria Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous? Yes...

12:16
I don't think it's a problem, unless there's some other conflict of interest
I guess if one accidentally decline one's own flag, it wouldn't even make a good post on meta :D
"Who declined that flag?! ...oh, me."
I suppose you could still make a self-answered question.
@RyanM It sounds funny, but that could be a logical outcome. I am flagging stuff because I do not have the details to know the whole situation. As a mod I could see that my flag was unwarranted and decline it
12:19
True! I have at least one flag pending where I could be totally off-base.
It's based on a guess-an guess based on observations, but a guess nonetheless.
We often mark those kinds of guesses helpful anyway
Unless you're running for mod. Then we decline as many of your flags as we possibly can, before we lose the chance for good. (Just kidding.)
I have just crossed 10k helpful comment flags.
Fun fact: if you have two flags on the same post marked helpful, it only shows the second one in the main/helpful lists, but you can see the first one if you open its category (the first was spam, the second was custom)
Speaking of flags ;) I flagged 7 answers as spam (same user, same tool, no disclosure). All flags were helpful and all the posts, except 1, were deleted. I believe it was forgotten by the mod, but strangely was just downvoted. Would mod-flagging be abusive?
@RyanM No, it doesn't...
12:25
@CodyGray it does for me - this post has two flags from me on it
@Vega Yeah, I think it was missed. Your spam flag on that other post was recorded as self-cleared.
@RyanM That's bizarre. I was looking at that exact same one, and I see both flags in the list.
@CodyGray Thank you, but what is self-cleared? Self-removed?
Yeah, I think it's when you retract your own flag
It removed a spam flag for an other post
Which recommended the same tool
Oh, OK
12:27
I decided it was just recommendation but not spam
Yeah, I guess I looked at the wrong one
@CodyGray Yeah, I saw both until it was marked helpful. Now I only see the spam flag in the spam page.
Yup, the question was at fault there
Probably a bug?
@RyanM I guess so. You are talking about this list, right?
12:28
@RyanM Remove filters
@CodyGray oh, no, I see what I did...
I forgot that spam flags aren't post flags.
So you located the bug between the keyboard and the chair
Indeed.
Spam flags do seem like post flags
Recommended workaround: do not try to identify bugs at 5:30am
They do! It would really make sense. They're flags on a post.
12:30
That category is misnamed
@CodyGray They also do not count on Samuel's user script.
@Vega You deserve congratulations. That is the only Steward badge I don't have and it's not one I could ever imagine getting. You must have the patience of a saint.
Uhh... this shouldn't have been migrated.
@CodyGray I was about to click off-topic and it was migrated before I had a chance to close it
also +100 congrats on the Steward badge for H&I. I, too, cannot imagine ever attaining that one.
12:38
@Nick I do not, but thank you very much, it's very nice of you :)
^ That's a moderator working though the NAA's. I love it when that happens and every post goes pink :)
You flagged that right in-between my clearing the migration history on the question (which undeleted the answer) and my re-deleting it, so it required quite a bit of a coordinated dance on all sides. Two other flags on that post were automatically marked "helpful" by Community when that question was wrongly migrated to another site.
I know it was a coincidence, even Cody isn't that fast
Hrm. I will work harder.
12:41
I cannot count how many times I already have been ninja'd when trying to spam flag SD reported posts...
@Georgy I don't think this is an appropriate duplicate.
+1 ^
@Dharman Ah, right! I should've been more careful. How do I ping a RO to delete the request?
Just encountered a suggested edit adding this tag...is it worth the effort creating a burninate request on meta?
12:51
@Georgy This could still be a duplicate, but I can't find anything about Return and order of operations in Python that would fit.
@Georgy you ping me ...or any other italic username in this room or see: socvr.org/faq#who-are-the-room-owners
@JanWichelmann Tags that define the task rather than the tool I'm generally disinclined to allow them on SO.
@Vega congrats! I've been reviewing H&I for half a year and am still not even up to half way. Definitely the hardest earned of them all.
@JanWichelmann I think so; the usage is wildly inconsistent and seems to have no common theme
Ok, I will put together a burninate request then
12:55
No rush
600+ questions is in the moderate difficulty category
Hopefully those will get addressed at some point in the future, once the mods have more time
Yeah, definitely not a one-click one
Well, look at that! I see in the transcript that Catija was fighting my fight, even when I wasn't here.
Context matters when it comes to answers. Python answers to C++ questions are "not an answer".
+1 Hasn't there been some meta thread about that at some point in the past?
@CodyGray I mostly disagree. They are probably bad answers which should be deleted, but they are answers nonetheless.
They have to be attempts to answer the question that was asked. They can't just be attempts to answer something, because that opens the floodgates for all kinds of nonsense to be preserved as a possible to answer to some hypothetical question.
Note that this is different from judging whether or not they are correct answers. Anything that requires subject-matter expertise is out of scope for NAA flags (and, in general, for moderator flags).
Yeah, I've spilled gallons of ink about it on Meta over the years
Too lazy to go look for those now
Interesting. I had assumed that flagging would lead to a "flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer" - assuming that the wrong language is a techical innacuracy.
@CodyGray Is this (10k link) NAA, in your opinion?
They sometimes do lead to that, @DavidBuck, but I don't think that is the correct outcome.
If I ask how to perform such and such machine-learning task in C++ and someone replies "You can achieve this much more easily in Python using TF and here is how: ..." Then it is an answer
13:03
@RyanM Yes. As soon as I read the question title and skim the question, it becomes very clear that that doesn't even remotely attempt to answer the question.
@Dharman Yeah, the guidance assumes that at least one of the users involved (flagger or moderator) is not an idiot.
That example only proves that context matters, and that you have to actually read the post in order to decide whether it is an answer.
@Dharman while those are perhaps "answers", I find them quite unhelpful, since they are in fact answers to a different question that was not asked, but could be asked, self-answered, then linked in a comment
The end result of that hypothetical is that the information on how to solve a problem in python is now in a C++ question
@RyanM Which is the reason to downvote
The famous 7 word 900 scored answer, is then a NAA, since the Question of that clearly stated that they had already tried that and was looking for another solution.
@RyanM I think that's overstating it. They're no different than library or tool recommendation answers, which are very good, when they're done correctly. Plenty of programmers tend to use the wrong tool for the job, just because it's the tool they know. Answers that recommend a superior tool are useful, if not for the original asker, for a generation of future Googlers.
Related reading: X-Y questions
@CodyGray Or that management says "lets compromise and do what I told you instead"
13:12
And I totally agree with adding it, it just seems like it's usually more of a comment than an answer. But I can see it having its place for XY problems.
"Need refer to parse this XML in python" "Use an XML parser"
I'm having trouble understanding why it would be better as a comment.
Because you're imagining something low-quality that consists of little more than a link or a two-word suggestion? Sure. That's probably best as a comment. It would likely qualify for NAA on its own.
Ah to be clear, I am saying it has its place as an answer
@CodyGray Because XY questions should instead be asking about X, not Y. If you answer to X, you should also modify the question to ask for X.
And remember (braindead) management!
We don't cater to braindead management
Maybe we should
13:15
The goal is to get the best possible solution to the problem
If the answer is "you reaallllly shouldn't do this this way, here's why you should do it this other way" then I'm totally on board with it as an answer
If the management is a part of a problem, it is a part of the problem.
If the management is not part of the solution, then it's part of the precipitate.
But if I ask how to use TensorFlow from Java and I get told I should use Python instead because it's easier...well, that doesn't really answer the question.
(probably not NAA, but doesn't answer the question)
Okay I am really going to sleep for real. Night y'all.
Well, you can certainly try.
13:21
@RyanM Don't get surprised if it gets deleted.
Can a user be elected moderator twice on the same site?
13:36
@Scratte No. What would be the point in that?
@CodyGray Perhaps they left and want to come back. Or they were asked to leave as employees and they'd like to moderate as volunteers..
Or perhaps the were asked to leave as volunteers and the community objected loudly
@Scratte IIRC, Moderators who voluntarily step down can get re-instated fairly easily. I think (not sure) that Jon did just that. But Community Moderators are elected for life. As for a certain former CM: The CEO has stated (on Meta) that there is no formal rule or barrier stopping him from seeking election as a Moderator. (But when some idiot hinted at that when he visited this room a few days back, he quickly vanished.)
^ CM confusion there - sorry. CM = Community Manager.
@AdrianMole I am aware of one user that asked for reinstatement and was denied. Which made me curious. Yes, lets not talk about that idiot ;) Feeling a nGrudge++ coming my way now ;)
The idiot referred to in my earlier post would be the person that this poster would refer to using the perpendicular pronoun. (Translation: It was self-referential, not a hurled insult.)
@AdrianMole If it's any help, I got it the first time.
But then they didn't technically get elected twice, did they? Unless they were elected, then hired, then non-hired, and for some reason was un-elected..
14:12
That's what I'm saying. There's no need for a second election; the Community's vote stands for life. So long as the Company decides that there is no other impediment.
@AdrianMole But that doesn't seem to be the case with the previous moderator that wanted reinstatement and was denied.
It would be cool if Moderators could appoint more moderators
@Scratte That would, no doubt, be due to some other impediment.
@DavidBuck Thank you, thank you :)
@Dharman Von Neumann Moderators? Hmm...
14:16
@Dharman that's called a call-up
@Dharman That's probably not a good idea. Since that would circumvent elections and open op the possibility that all moderators are favoring each other. If they appoint enough, there'd even be reason to even have elections.
@SamuelLiew You mean that actually does happen?
@AdrianMole If I understand it correctly, in this case the other impediment is one individual. I can find the post, if you're curious :)
Mildly curious. But it's not important.
@Scratte "..reason to not have elections" is what I meant.
14:20
Presumably, you're not talking about that ex-Moderator whose moniker we aren't allowed to mention.
 
2 hours later…
15:59
This has to be spam, right? stackoverflow.com/questions/29876518/…
00:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

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