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12:00 AM
Hold on, I'll get it. I just need to add more RAM in my mouse.
 
12:22 AM
They're coming for you, Neo, and I don't know what they're going to do.
 
12:49 AM
Hi all! o/
 
\o
Silence Ho, the mighty tree speaks...
 
The tree sees, at least. ;)
 
o/
 
Hi @BaummitAugen. Congrats!
Hi all
(quiet Saturday morning here in Tokyo…)
 
Dec 2 '16 at 15:51, by kayess
and also spot he's now highhorse using ";)" everytime to indicate coolness :p
Took heck a lot of time to search that message from @kayess
 
12:58 AM
@sideshowbarker Thank you!
@BhargavRao Lol. =D
 
Now we back to the normal tree :p
 
I'm still your mom and pop tree, just with a bigger hammer.
 
Not a chainsaw?
3
 
The tree does not endorse chainsaws. :|
 
1:18 AM
Heh. I flagged and it was handled like instantly. Kinda weird
 
@CodyGray I noticed you rolled back an edit to the MSE FAQ on moderators.
The edit summary mentioned that mods can see personal voting choices at /admin/show-user-votes/{user-id}; is that possible? Or is that the "voting trends" screen?
Or is it a staff-only tool?
 
@gparyani That page exists, but it doesn't do quite what the edit advertised it as doing. It simply shows trends, which is already covered in that answer.
 
@CodyGray Ah, voting trends.
 
I am very sensitive to giving anyone even the remotest of impression that moderators can see information about votes, because votes are intentionally anonymous.
 
There's already a bullet about that in that FAQ, but it very explicitly mentions that personal voting choices are private.
 
1:40 AM
Right. That's why I rolled back the new edit.
 
Does it show trends by user? :O
I'd love to see my trends
 
I also really don't see the point in giving out URLs for pages that you aren't supposed to have access to.
@SterlingArcher Yup, it shows everything you did back in the 90s. Very embarrassing.
 
Oh sure you eat dirt 7 times and they make a trend about it >:(
(true story)
 
I'm assuming you were an infant in the 90s?
I only had to sample it once or twice...
 
yes, and thank you for not assuming I was an adult during my dirt eating phase xD
I also caught crickets to "save" them, forgot about them, and were killed in the wash.
I'm a monster without even knowing what I did.
 
1:44 AM
7 times, though
You obviously liked it
 
I think I ate peas less than dirt before the age of 19
 
Peas are delicious.
Lima beans, though, are not.
 
That's one that I never and still don't enjoy. I used to swallow them whole because if I chewed them it was so much worse
Basically if I had to eat it, and hated it, it wasn't chewed. Very miraculous that I didn't choke as a kid.
 
I definitely hope you liked broccoli. Because otherwise, that would have been quite painful to eat.
 
2:09 AM
Huh. I didn't realise that SOCVR was the "Symposium On Choice Vegetables Room" =D
3
 
 
5 hours later…
 
2 hours later…
8:35 AM
morning \o
 
9:01 AM
I hope you like it and can understand the meaning
 
what is the best action for a 10ker who uses the inline tag editor or edits only the titles in order to fix the tags/titles respectively when there are much more and critical issues in the question body such as formatting/grammar, etc.? With other words, what to do with a 10ker who makes too minor edits? Mod-flag one of their posts? (I have warned them in one of the posts they edited, but they didn't say 'I'll try to improve', etc.)
 
9:20 AM
@double-beep if those edits are correct, what is the problem?
 
user6564029
hello. anybody care to guess correct tags for this? it's tagged d, but clearly is not (hopefully with right tags people will be able to prod the OP to edit the question into shape. or at least it'll die faster if the OP continues to be not responsive).
 
9:40 AM
Hi, can someone suggest a better duplicate if needed? stackoverflow.com/questions/55277330/…
 
@Jean-FrançoisFabre You might want to add a C-tag to that message, so that people immediately know whether they have domain knowledge (as well as linking to the Q, not a comment)
 
@Adriaan yes. Well, nevermind, I'm handing this. Thanks. Will do next time (was trying to get Antti or someone -savvy)
I'll hang out later this evening, I'm sure there will be superb off-topic questions to review :)
 
@dur The OP figured it out and answered his own question.
 
dur
9:57 AM
@karel Yes, he did.
 
Zoe
several link-only answers too
Guess that's a yes ^^"
 
Zoe
10:12 AM
@Michail Searching for the method points to C#. Also matches with the // comments and var
 
 
2 hours later…
12:05 PM
Is this a programming question? stackoverflow.com/questions/55311336/…
Not sure because I've no domain knowledge and might imply programming according to tag wiki...
 
12:16 PM
OK, off-topic according to ssh wiki
 
1:01 PM
@Makyen so basically y'all have made a tool that helps to curate the site, but we're not allowed to overuse it, except the volume of crap that SO is subjected to means any reasonable use is going to end up as overuse, so... uninstalled
 
1:19 PM
@rene they are too minor
edits are supposed to be complete, right?
and not restricted to tags/title, but in both title, body and tags
 
@double-beep If somebody else has to review them, sure
 
Zoe
@double-beep as complete as possible, yes
Which means if an edit fixes several grammar issues but misses one and a tiny tagging issue, that's improve and not reject, because it does actually fix issues with the post
 
@Zoe I believe the issue here is edits by ppl with sufficient rep to edit without a review being needed? In which case meh, provided they don't flood they can do as much or as little as they like imho
 
Zoe
/shrug
 
there was a similar candidate question in an election Q&A
 
Zoe
1:29 PM
2k edits don't really matter though. They don't push the post into reopen either IIRC, and the only place they're actively destructive is from review
 
Fall 2015 mod election Q&A I think
 
1:56 PM
@double-beep I know nothing about Python but if I see a Python question pop-up in my Watched tags I only do a re-tag. The Python followers are more then capable to fix the rest of the post if that is needed.
 
@rene the problem is that the person is familiar with the language
and as mentioned, I asked them in comments to make complete edits, but I saw only excuses. And they continued...
and btw, the question: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/309768
 
@double-beep leave it alone. No such thing as too minor for a 10k user on open posts.
Serial edits could be different a bit
 
@AndrasDeak well, the problem is that it would need one more 2ker to make the post complete.
I was thinking about a mod-flag
 
2:44 PM
@Zoe The first edit that's applied after closure which is made to the body of the post by anyone that has not flagged the question, or voted to close the question, will put the question in the reopen queue (or a body edit by the OP, even if they flagged/VtC). See: Which edits push closed questions to the reopen review queue?
 
@Makyen this is true for the first 5 days of the closure I think because after 5 days, the question is closed, isn't it?
 
@double-beep Yes, I should have included that restriction also. Thanks for mentioning it.
 
Zoe
Oh. ^^"
 
3:20 PM
@HovercraftFullOfEels 'trusty' username :)
 
3:33 PM
FGS, declined NLN comment flag on a link to a kickstarter :/
 
@double-beep indeed
 
4:32 PM
Gemmy's still trying to monitor music despite the tag is gone.
 
@double-beep so what? Doesn't leave us worse off than if the first edit is never made
 
@Joshua I pinged Rob in the burn room
 
5:00 PM
waffles?
 
only if with blueberries :D
 
@IanKemp I'm sorry you feel that way. You're welcome to use SOCVR, or not. The reality is that closing questions on SO is fundamentally broken, because there are neither enough people that vote to close, nor enough close-votes available per day to those that do VtC. It's just not possible for SOCVR to fix that. SOCVR aims to mitigate the issue, to an extent.
The limits I mentioned, with the more detailed explanation as to why, are to keep SOCVR within what's possible for us to do, not because we don't want to do more, but because we can't. As you know, it takes 5 close-votes to close any question (dups can, with a gold badge be done by 1 user, but that's relatively uncommon). Thus, to actually close the question for each cv-pls there needs to be (about) 4 other people casting a close-vote.
We just don't have 4 times as many people here who are only interested in going through and servicing the cv-pls requests as there are people who find closeable questions in their normal use of SO. The vast majority of us could easily find 50 questions which should be closed every day outside of SOCVR. If we didn't have the limits on the number of cv-pls requests from each user, then SOCVR would be just as broken as the Close Vote Review Queue.
Thus, we do ask the people participating here to limit the number of cv-pls requests they post. We ask that those be the questions that really should be closed quickly, or which the CV Review Queue just won't handle (e.g. low-traffic tags). We leave it up to those posting to select a subset of those they find to close.
Keep in mind that the average maximum of 10 cv-pls/day assumes you are spending your remaining 40 close-votes every day on other people's cv-pls requests.
The underlying assumption is that if you are requesting other people here cast X close-votes on questions you consider it important to close, then the only sustainable thing (i.e. that gets the majority of cv-plsed questions closed) is that you cast a similar X close-votes on questions which other people are asking people to look at closing. Given that, generally, it takes 5 CV to close, that means the number of CV you're requesting is about 4 times the number of cv-pls requests you post.
2
We welcome your participation here, if you're willing to do so within the guidelines we've evolved (as stated in SOCVR's FAQ). We think participation here helps maintain quality on SO. It doesn't, and can't, solve all the problems, but it does help.
 
Did you miss any of @Makyen's previous monologues? Don't worry! They'll be bundled in a nice coffee table book in 6 to 8 weeks! For you and others to enjoy!
8
We might include pictures of closed questions as well
 
:-) lol
 
I was thinking that we maybe need a blog like SOBotics. Your material can go on it unedited ...
 
5:20 PM
That's not something I've considered. If you feel it would be helpful, then I wouldn't object. Although, I would want to make some edits, as I often find various grammar issues/typos/mistakes after the Chat edit window closes.
 
@Makyen don't worry, we're all human (sort of) and most of us don't even have English as their first language.
 
@Adriaan True. Good points.
 
6:17 PM
@Makyen "if only our newly-elected moderators were as active as before"
@Jean-FrançoisFabre please do not spare your binding closure on those too broads and unclears in C ;)
 
6:40 PM
@AnttiHaapala I think you're just joking around, but in case other people had expectations that are not being met, I'm treating the sentiment at least semi-seriously.
Give our newly elected moderators a chance to get up to speed with the job of being a moderator. I'm sure there's quite a bit they need to become familiar with. There's a considerable amount of other things that moderators do than close questions. Just the fact that they've become moderators implies that there will be a reduction in the time they spend doing the things they used to do. How that re-allocation of time pans out is, of course, different for each person, but something has to give.
They might choose to take time away from non-SE activities, but the most likely thing to adjust is to spend less time on the SE/SO related activities they were already participating in. The commitment of a minimum of 30 minutes/day of SO-moderator activity is very significant, particularly when viewed as a percentage of the time that each person spends on SO/SE.
Also, please keep in mind that people who participated here in SOCVR being elected moderators doesn't make them our captive question-close machines. Sure, it's likely that they will choose to close some questions which were cv-plsed here, but it's really not their primary job to do that, as closing questions is something that regular users can do, at least in theory (even though in actuality it's broken due to the sheer volume of questions that need to be closed).
 
@rene another for the book ^
 
We make a sequel ...
... and a making of
 
:-)
 
and SOCVR-Talk ...
 
well I am almost quarter-serious.
 
6:46 PM
seriousness comes is sizes
 
"how to write an operating system"-style questions that a mod comes upon in their fav tags could be closed without hesitation...
 
7:06 PM
@AnttiHaapala I'm not disagreeing with that. Sure, if the moderator sees a question that should be closed, then they should close it. But, it's just not their primary job to sit watching for questions to close. For us regular users, closing questions is one of the higher-end things we can do wrt. moderation. That's just not the case for actual moderators. There's lots of stuff they can do which regular users are not permitted to do (and should not be permitted to do).
There's an expectation that each moderator spend at least 30 minutes/day on moderator activities. While that does include closing questions, closing questions is a lower priority than most of the other things they should be doing. It's a lower priority because regular users can close questions. Moderators are, generally, exception handlers. Closing questions really isn't an exception.
 
@Makyen not arguing with that :D
 
@SterlingArcher just answer "Yes" :)
 
@AnttiHaapala don't worry. I know you're counting on me to watch the tag. When a question is hopeless, I'll close it.
 
@AnttiHaapala get elected and Reduce the number of votes required to close a question to 1 :)
 
7:11 PM
Or just get a gold badge
dupe it all
 
Give rep to people closing as dupe and let the fun begin
 
apart from that the 4 threshold that's going to happen in 6-8 days.
more power to silver badges. That would be cool.
@SterlingArcher closing as duplicate isn't always possible.
 
Not with that negativity!
Everything is a dupe if you're brave enough
 
@SterlingArcher :'D
 
closing as wrong/unrelated duplicate is abusing dupehammer powers.
 
7:14 PM
Just set up a nice canonical "How to debug my code"
 
I'm all about abusing power ;)
 
also prevents roomba even if it has a -10 voted answer.
 
(I'm just joking)
 
I get that.
 
well, and closing a bad question as a duplicate of correct one and you need to remember to delete it later i.e. ^ what JFF said
 
7:14 PM
DO YOU <3
 
@Jean-FrançoisFabre not really...
 
Coffee too strong, gonna go warm up my friends new house
Laters taters!
 
@AnttiHaapala you have Makyen scripts to remember posting a del request 2 days ago. But then you have Makyen that tells you do stop deleting the dupes...
 
@Jean-FrançoisFabre I do not, because I don't have tampermonkey :P
 
@PetterFriberg not really what? too many threads, not following.
@AnttiHaapala then note down the dupes in a notepad. I used to do that before.
 
7:16 PM
For roomba only 9 days rule is exception, it would still qualify for 30 or 365 days rule
 
today there was an interesting dupe, really bad code but it came from Turkish national informatics competition...
 
Hence a -10 dupe with no answers in 30 days will roomba
 
@PetterFriberg except a single answer (accepted or not) blocks it, right?
 
-10 answer dupe...
 
@PetterFriberg a -10 dupe with answers with -10 votes won't roomba. If unclear/too broad it roombas.
damn it's so complex I had to explain another moderator the dupe thing...
 
7:18 PM
@AnttiHaapala Yep, that's a helpful one, but won't solve the problem on it's own (& I'd prefer 3 CV, rather than 4). Unfortunately, the problem is too fundamental for any single incremental change/suggestion to solve it. The only thing that likely would be reasonably effective is Shog9's proposal to give unilateral close & delete until the OP edits to badge holders.
 
@Jean-FrançoisFabre well you were not quick enough if you let the answer through :)
 
@AnttiHaapala Yeah, I'm still behind on getting the Request Generator working with Greasemonkey 4. Unfortunately, the GM4 compatibility issues across scripts is quite pervasive. Of the userscripts I use on SE, at least 28 of them don't work with GM4, and I'm still not done looking at all of them. Note that all of them worked with GM3, TM, and VM, but not GM4.
 
:'(
perhaps me installing TM would be path of least resistance
 
@AnttiHaapala It's what I recommend. Don't get me wrong, getting the alpha Request Generator working on GM4 is certainly something I'm planning and consider a priority. It's just the compatibility issues for GM4 affect so many different scripts (even very simple userscripts) that I think there's a significantly better user experience with TM or VM than with GM4.
 
hmm magic editor cannot show images in diffs :d
 
7:33 PM
@AnttiHaapala Another possibility is to run both at the same time. Doing that gets a bit complex when installing scripts, as you have to go into the add-on manager and temporarily disable one (e.g. GM4) if you want the other (e.g. TM) to be the install destination and the first is intercepting the load of the userscript page before the other sees it. I'm currently running both at the same time in FF66 (to do some testing) and other than the above install inconvenience, it's been working fine.
 
@Makyen yea, I've disabled GM now completely
 
@AnttiHaapala I hope it works well for you. As for the Request Generator, there's a minor issue that may have it complaining you need to wait a minute or two to save a revisit when you save a revisit shortly after the script interacts with the data structure in another tab. This is due to TM in FF not propagating across tabs the deletion of a saved value that I use as a lock-flag for the data structure holding the revisits. I have a solution for that, but need to push a new version of the script.
 
haha if only we had websql :D
 
Yeah, a consistent database would be nice. :-;
 
7:51 PM
hem so how did I do a delete-reminder now? :D
 
I am surprised I survived from the H&I queue doing 20 reviews :)
 
@AnttiHaapala In the request popup, there's a selection for request type. Any of the "revisit" requests (11 days, 2 days, N days) will be saved. Once the time you've set has expired, a tab will be automatically opened with the revisited post the next time you visit an SE page where the Request Generator runs.
 
@Aran-Fey @AnttiHaapala answered there
 
Yeah, I'm not sure why. '12 was a different time, I guess?
 
well, I was very first or so to answer... also '12 was before I had even found chat :D
but judging from the comments it is very much unsalvageable... OP says "I followed the Java conventions of creating useless classes" and pretty much drops gloves there...
@Aran-Fey @Adriaan perhaps I thought it was salvageable then with an answer, but seeing the pileup of 7 years there I think it should be closed.
 
8:03 PM
\o/
Honestly didn't think it'd be so difficult to get that question closed... not sure why nobody's voting
 
@Aran-Fey It's 'cv-please' not 'cv-or-I'll-stab-you'. People vote when they want and if they want.
 
@double-beep meritocracy not democracy.
 
@Adriaan I'm aware.
 
8:09 PM
@Adriaan for the record, I've removed my answer and voted for closure.
I was answering the problem posed in the question, I didn't even try to run the code in the question it seems, the code isn't even valid python. Not even valid pseudo...
 
@AnttiHaapala ok; I wasn't pinging you to not-close the question, just to get your opinion on it because you answered (and know Python). If you agree it should be closed, I'm not against
 
syntax errors, wrong indentation, missing variables... that question has it all
 
8:23 PM
@EJoshuaS because. :)
 
@double-beep True :)
 
^that's now answerable and the reason was unlike anything I'd have thought :D seems that in Windows one can set console attributes so that it does generate a hideous grid like that.
 
 
8:49 PM
sigh. First I spent my close vote to close a question without mcve, then requested a reopen for it and as I had done that the user then removed the question as "solved by myself, kthxbye"
 
9:07 PM
@Steve I can't see deleted questions, but it sounds like that was spam.
 
@EJoshuaS not per se but still off topic.
 
@Steve Was he looking for volunteers for his project?
 
yes
 
Seems like spam to me, because its sole purpose is self-promotion - I could be wrong though.
 
10:45 PM
Hi all! o/
 
\o
 
user8682794
11:01 PM
@Makyen I agree with this. SOCVR for smaller communities is very important. And the limit is fundamental to that. Nobody wants another close vote review queue.
 
user8682794
@Makyen I have been working with the updated scripts for a few days now and the improvements are significant. Well done!
 
11:21 PM
@PearlySpencer Thank you.
I'm glad that they are helpful.
 
11:50 PM
@BaummitAugen Hey! I just raised some flags... checks list Never mind
 
The queue is quite under control atm, to say the least. =D
 

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