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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
You can try and hack something with clock(), but that is notoriously imprecise.
 
12:29 AM
@QPaysTaxes yep, μseconds
 
@QPaysTaxes In C++ I'd use std::chrono
 
@BaummitAugen On Linux is is the way to go. But AFAIK from the Python docs, Windows has its problem with this function.
@quartata This is most likely C.
 
@Olaf No, I know.
(since he said C)
But just pointing it out
 
@quartata Well, on my µCs I use either a timer or the ARMv7M debug unit's cycle counter.
 
1:06 AM
dead link. stackoverflow.com/a/1522521/5233410 VLQ or NAA?
 
@Nkosi It's too old for VLQ, but NAA is fine here (in my experience).
 
got it
 
@Nkosi It tries to answer, so it would be VLQ. Problem is it cannot be flagged as such.
@BaummitAugen That differs from consensus.
 
recommended to delete. going through vlq now
 
The famous apple-link-only comparison also supports flagging LO as NAA, but I usually use VLQ.
@Olaf I don't think there is a consensus that disagrees with me on this. LO with dead link is certainly not an answer.
 
1:10 AM
@BaummitAugen It still tries to answer. I agree it is useless. But that's true for other non-NAA "answers".
 
Mods appear to agree, never had such a flag handled other than "helpful".
 
@QPaysTaxes I thought the consensus is "either one"
 
> So let me be clear: this sort of response is not an answer.
From the apple post.
 
@BaummitAugen Well, I had something similar. That's why I normally don't engage in flagging. Looks to me, there is no common understanding by the queue-reviewers either.
 
I was uncertain myself. that is why i asked the room.
 
1:12 AM
There seems to be no consensus what consensus is.
 
@Olaf Hehe, that holds for pretty much all queues for a vast variety of topics.
 
@BaummitAugen ^ ^
 
Off for the day. Bye! o/
 
o/
 
1:43 AM
@Nkosi I added an archive.org archive link, just so it exists in the revision history prior to being deleted. In other cases, finding an archive of the link is a reasonable choice (no consensus). In this case, the answer is clearly link-only (makes no attempt to answer the question other than the link), and has no historical value. Link-only answers are NAA. Be clear, however, that link-only means removing the link leaves no answer at all.
For link-only in general, even if it is a bad answer without the link, but still is an actual answer, then it is not link-only. In this case, without the link it is not an answer.
 
@Makyen Thanks for the info
 
 
1 hour later…
2:58 AM
That would be: sd f
 
 
3 hours later…
5:29 AM
or rather unclear
 
5:53 AM
still too broad
 
 
2 hours later…
7:28 AM
@Yam meh
 
The edit isn't spam. If you mean the post itself - could be legit
 
I just clicked on that sprite and then it wants me to upload a file ... not going to test that
 
user3956566
@TylerH thanks
 
9:03 AM
@rene - Shall do :) Thanks
 
9:48 AM
I wish to propose a close vote on an old question, but for full disclosure it is a user I've edited and closed a lot, since they are a royal pain (questions always too broad, very limited effort often made, some questions descend into long loops of doesnt-work-help-me-pls, questions all contain begging and need much editing work). It is still OK to propose a cv-pls?
(I'll not add it unless someone says it's OK, no rush).
 
If it's old and not generating much activity, there's no point in using a cv-pls here... Let the queue handle it
Also, now, we'd know you consider this user a "royal pain" and that might shed poor light on us in the future
 
Not sure I understand - is it bad to regard someone as persistently posting bad questions?
I think it is objectively the case.
 
@halfer No. It's bad to point it out though.
We are extremely touchy when it comes to this subject, let me explain
 
It is? I am happy to learn, but it is a constant theme on the Meta site.
OK, thanks...
 
9:52 AM
Kyll is typing
 
/me reads a couple of close requests in the meantime :)
 
Kyll still typing
 
it rather be good ...
 
tenterhooks all round...
 
/me falls off chair in anticipation
 
9:57 AM
Kyll looking for a funny GIF to put in the end
 
me too, tension is rising...
 
probably onebox-es
 
Announcing here that "user X is asking a lot of poor questions" can have very... nasty effects. Some regulars might go, try and be helpful by posting comments, editing, or close-voting when the content is unsalvageable. But what does it look like from user X's perspective? A bunch of mean higher-rep users just cracked down on him, screwing his content and acting almighty. They hate it, they feel attacked, and it turns out we're just a pack of hungry wolves preying on new users.
We've had issues in the past. Even if we act in good faith and try to be helpful, the fact that we do this together actually becomes a critical issue.
So either we coordinate efforts very carefully... Or we don't do it altogether
 
Fair enough, thanks for the detail
 
There's too big a chance that we'll screw up if we try to coordinate this precisely without a framework behind it, be it a tool or a list of guidelines
And to extend things a bit
 
10:00 AM
It's sort-of why I asked, to be fair - I am in the bind of not wanting to concentrate on users, whilst regularly running telltale-phrase searches that sometimes bring up the same users.
So I asked in the interests of transparency and full disclosure :)
 
kyll is typing again
 
You must realise that SO has not been planned for us. It's built for community moderation, not considering the fact that some users might team up to be quicker and more efficient. We can do amazing things, yet we have to be careful while doing them
 
Yup
 
Hence also why any and all comment like "dang, this user is stoopid" is going to get you a trip to the Sanitarium
 
Well said, Kyll. Plop to you!
 
10:02 AM
And now, finally
Plop everyone. I'm back for a bit.
 
Where's the funny GIF?
 
/me tips hat, much obliged sir/madam!
 
@M.A.R. Here ya go
 
@halfer You're free to bring in a cv-pls for a recent active question you didn't touch yet as long as you don't refer to that's the user I was talking about We explicitly disallow targeting users and what you propose has the strong smell of that. In addition to what @kyll explained, do know that we monitor for multiple cv-pls requests against the same user and warn you only once.
 
rene was typing
 
10:06 AM
That sat on my clipboard for so long ...
 
Thanks rene. I got caught by that a couple of weeks ago, but it was not an intentional infraction! I will be more careful.
 
good idea, saying we warn once so that they try and we can kick 'em anyway
 
I'll leave the one I had in mind for the queue anyway, don't want to spoil the good work that goes on here.
 
There was a suggestion in the tavern that SOCVR would be more accepted if it made itself more visible on MSO and not looking like a shadow organization
 
How? And where/when was that mentioned and by whom?
 
10:11 AM
@JanDvorak More accepted? We don't seem too rejected. Also what the flower said.
 
Like most people read meta?
 
Status report and such
@Adriaan accepted by the mso community
 
That's not fit for Meta
Also
All our meetings and decisions are public
 
Why wouldn't stats about this room be fit for meta?
 
And linked from socvr.org
 
10:13 AM
publicly accessible, not public. Only people who know about us can learn about us.
 
stats on socvr.org like the Charcoal team are doing would actually be a very nice idea
number of posts discussed, how many closed, number of reopens, etc
 
@tripleee That could be automated...
Mh, I like the idea actually. What do you think rene?
 
there would hardly be any opposition if somebody stepped up and did it. The question is, any volunteers?
 
Charcoal made pretty big announcement when they started flagging. A similar post could turn this room's image from "a group of people who gang up on people" to "an ongoing quality project that we should keep"
 
But this room's image isn't a "a group of people who gang up on people", at least as far as I can tell
 
10:17 AM
Maybe we'd be allowed to gang up if we were a well known janitorial service
 
@Kyll But it could help ease up the limits a bit, and allow people to relax more, and less messages will show up in Sanitarium
 
@JanDvorak I don't see where you're going there
 
@Kyll if stats would reduce the risk that somebody gets that impression, they're a good idea
transparency FTW
 
@Kyll what MAR said
 
I like the idea, I'll discuss this with the team
 
10:21 AM
@FelixSFD lol, ninjad :D
 
@PetterFriberg finally, you were faster on one post :-P
 
Yeah finally
 
He's used to never being first, with @Tuna around...
 
10:56 AM
Ok the question "What steps should I learn to build an Egyptian-accented personal assistant?" might be the most hilarious one this week :) Like... a terminator but with Egyptian accent? This got to be a troll post.
 
@PetterFriberg Not trolling, prolly upset that they can't understand the answer
 
@M.A.R. check his answer, or is it an edit..
 
It's prolly an edit
Which is why I asked in SOBotics if it's NAA
 
Well the use of bold text in caps all over his comments doesn't seem appropriate... regarded as shouting.
 
@Lundin Yeah, and demonstration of frustration
And they call themselves a dumbass, not the answerer
 
11:02 AM
It is not ok though. It's not SO's fault that he can't understand anything.
I flagged his answer as NAA
 
11:22 AM
@RiggsFolly another one for you hammer ^^
 
Morning
 
Morning :)
 
user3956566
\o
 
sigh 4K+ rep user asks a question I find the dupe to with a single google search and it is the first link. :(
lol and I just got a bronze tag badge for
 
11:40 AM
For being constructive?
I think everyone in this room is eligible for a gold badge ..
 
Gold badge, maybe...
 
11:55 AM
That will work for me
 
Has anyone seen this bug before? When I hover over the edge of a tag it repeatedly toggles the hover behaviour... i.stack.imgur.com/hYoUM.gif
 
12:18 PM
Morning! o/
 
@BaummitAugen \o
 
morning all \o
 
Hullo!
 
@Henders What browser?
o/
 
@Machavity Chrome Version 56.0.2924.87
 
12:29 PM
@Nkosi hey!
 
@Henders Just for kicks, tried Chrome 57?
 
I'm torn between NAA and spam stackoverflow.com/a/42973910/5233410
 
@Nkosi NAA
 
even with the repetition?
 
Certainly not spam, spam needs promotion of commercial stuff. Abuse, if anything, but that seems like overkill too if they only post this once.
 
12:35 PM
@Machavity thanks.
 
@Nkosi If it were repeating letters or a word I'd say abusive. But a new non-English user might copy-paste something like that
 
@BaummitAugen makes sense
 
And that Q is awful
 
Yep. first thing I saw this morning. not a very nice wake up question
@Machavity I voted to close the Q and flagged the A as NAA.
 
@Machavity I'll try that this afternoon.
Just downloaded it
 
@Machavity :( just realized I am out of del votes again.
 
@Nkosi There's never enough of those
 
True.
 
even with 30 delete votes it is still not enough
 
And I'm not even there yet.
 
1:00 PM
especially after coming out of VLQQ
 
@Nkosi I just spend all my votes first, then go to the queue. Moar impact! =D
 
My gripe with Triage is the same way. Can't go in there without burning CVs
 
I really wish the queues did not burn up your votes. They should be a separate pool. That way you can burn through all the queues and then still have moderation powers when you are just browsing.
 
How do I do a shorter representation of ^^^
 
1:17 PM
@Nkosi What?
 
@Kyll looking for a shorter way to represent a close vote request for off topic problem that can no longer be reproduced
it is kind of long
 
> No repro
 
lovely. thanks
 
@Nkosi Are you using the CV plugin script? I'd just put Typo
 
Or the *-pls generator: socvr.org/userscripts
 
1:19 PM
i've been doing eveythign by hand. don't knwo how to use the scripts as yet.
guess i need to go read up on those
 
The page I've linked to should be helpful yeah
 
[mind blown]
 
=D
 
classic case of not knowing what I don't know
greasemonkey or tampermonkey? i am on FF. which one is favored
 
@Nkosi I use greasemonkey on FF
 
1:29 PM
I have Greasy, seems to work fine.
 
I like tampermonkey but I have chrome
 
I use TamperMonkey on chrome and Edge
 
greasemonkey it is. I tend to use FF most
noticed TM works on all 3 (FF, GC, ME)
i'll start with grease and see how it goes
BRB required restart
of FF that is.
 
Well, yes. We didn't assume you needed a restart ...
@Nkosi added that to the page: socvr.org/userscripts
 
:) my bad i'll kill the commentary
@rene sweet. :)
 
1:38 PM
Umm... did smokey not get this answer?
 
@JonClements doesn't look like it: metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/…
 
strange... thought there was enough in it to have gotten keyword/phone number?
 
@JonClements uh, screenshot please?
 
@JonClements phonenumbers only detect in titles
 
1:44 PM
That is not spam
 
@NathanOliver It's abusive
 
@NathanOliver But it is abuse, isn't it?
 
No. It is someone without a clue posting there md5 as an answer for help
we can delete vote that stuff instead of nuking them.
 
@rene Cheers
Oh great... a man has been arrested after trying to drive into a crowd of people in Antwerp... sighs
 
1:49 PM
jeez
 
@JonClements Mr Mercedes?
 
@JonClements You and yours OK after yesterday?
 
@Nathan yes... haven't had to be in London for ages and I live in the home counties anyway, so didn't really affect me, but thanks for asking...
 
@JonClements @rene was that only one time spam or is it still going on?
 
@Ashish I don't recall seeing it before - was just odd it didn't have any flags from people in this room - that's why I thought I'd check :)
 
1:50 PM
@JonClements no problem
 
@AshishAhuja I think this was the only incident I know off
 
lemme see if that domain has come up before
 
nah, I meant is that more posts of that spam still coming?
I can do an instant blacklist then
 
nope... that's the only post deleted/otherwise on the site that mentions that domain... too early to tell if it's going to be ongoing though I guess
 
ok then
 
1:54 PM
ok user scripts FTW
2
 
=D
 
does the same hold for del votes?
 
IIRC yes, although I can't use them
 
ok was just wondering.
my thinking is "if you have to do something more than once, chances are someone already wrote a script to do it for you"
 
@Kyll Come on spearrel... you're more than half way there! :p
 
1:57 PM
Meeeh
 
@Nkosi I don't think there's a del-pls auto-generator included with the cv-pls script. There is a reopen-pls generator though.
 
@4castle ok i see. thought it was odd i didn't see one on a -3 post where delete was an option.
 
I always have to write del-pls requests manually
 
got it. feature request? :)
or too soon?
 
@Nkosi Sure, or fork if you can =D
 
2:02 PM
I'm all for it. Especially if it automatically detects if it needs 20k rep.
 
+1
 
@QPaysTaxes error: lvalue required as increment operand ++1
 
@QPaysTaxes Uncaught ReferenceError: Invalid left-hand side expression in prefix operation
 
2:18 PM
Not legal C or C++ at least. =D
 
thank Skeet
2
 
@4castle 20k detection should be a requirement
 
@QPaysTaxes Or :(){ :|:& };: for when you want someone to really hate you... :p
@QPaysTaxes Bah... where's the fun in that though :(
 
@QPaysTaxes the smiley version is the traditional because it's got a layer of obfuscation
 
@Machavity Same issue in Chrome Version 57.0.2987.110
 
2:35 PM
@QPaysTaxes wonder if they re-used our experiment with cabbage
 
Is writing a DateUtil class that is static in java an anti-pattern? massacre me, folks
 
> @PythonCabbage why are you being so quiet?
> @JonClements Because I am fat.
Lol
 
getting the current sqltimestamp
 
afk
 
return new Timestamp(new Date().getTime());
is a nasty construct
the two methods in the date util are getting the current timestamp, and getting it in a consistentreadable text format
 
2:42 PM
tp
or tpu maybe? :O
 
@Henders you actually want to use tpu
If it is really spam you want to blacklist the user.
 
@NathanOliver I realised after I posted! I have to take your first answer I'm afraid...
 
np
Don't let the bed bugs bite
 
public class DateUtil { private static final SimpleDateFormat simpleDateFormat = new SimpleDateFormat("MM/dd/yyyy HH:mm:ss"); public static String getMMDDYYYYHHMMSS(Timestamp timestamp){ return simpleDateFormat.format(timestamp); } public static Timestamp getCurrentTimestamp(){ return new Timestamp(new Date().getTime()); }}
thats the entirety of the util
as to why it's not in the class that uses it, there's a bunch
 
@Compass no problem just watchout SimpleDateFormat is not thread safe.
so your current code is not thread safe ;)
and there is no need to pass through the Date object, new Timestamp(System.currentTimeMillis()) is enough
I bet the Java 8 folks have something more fancy using the new Time functions...
 
3:08 PM
i managed to extract the SDF from the util
it is now thread safe owo throws everything away
 
I tell ya, ignoring FireAlarm really cleans up the chat
 
As in ignoring the reports and just working on cv-pls?
 
as in ignoring the user to hide the posts
 
3:17 PM
@TylerH So pulling the FireAlarm clears the air?
 
@TylerH at least it posts are as interesting as what anyone can say.
 
@TylerH uh, do you want the report to be even more less? I have 2 months of holidays starting next tuesday so I can work on some delays etc which @nathan had discussed in an issue on GH. To me the reports at a threshold of 35 (in this room) seem to be OK but if others think it needs to be even more less I can have another look
 
@AshishAhuja I just don't care to see FireAlarm reports at all
no need to adjust the threshold for me
 
3:19 PM
Was the time delay ever incorporated? Also, just to let y'all know we are working on adding them to the archive script so completed reports get moved away.
 
@NathanOliver I didn't add anything, and I don't think Nobody added anything either. I had a look at it, but I was too busy that time, then I forgot about it and now I have my exams going on :|
IIRC, the threshold was adjusted
 
am i not understanding the short reasons for the cv-pls? i used l: as it says in readme but it does not replace
or am i suppose to exclude the colon?
 
Either it is broken or we can't follow instructions
 
probably the latter
 
3:31 PM
Yep. No colon
 
:) great.
 
:36270340 did you actually want us to cv pls that?
 
@TylerH looks like he was just testing it
 
Also note that if you are close voting on the post there is a check box at the bottom of the close vote window you can check and it will send a cv-pls when you vote to close. It picks the reason you used.
@TylerH No. Testing.
 
@NathanOliver oh? hadn't noticed that as yet
 
3:33 PM
it's a nice feature
 
ok found it. sweet
 
this changes everything (for me at least)
lol
 
@NathanOliver Too Late. It is now deleted
 
Just remember not to cv-pls everythying.
 
3:34 PM
:) lol
with great power...yada yada yada
 
@TylerH Wah?!?! I see you edited it
 
@NathanOliver made you look
 
Installing update...
 
@Nkosi Protip: It's useful for the "stock" closure reasons but not for custom or explanation is needed. In those cases I find it better to close then use the cv-pls link to write a clear reason
 
3:36 PM
@Machavity noted. thanks.
i'll stick with the link for now till i get accustom to it.
 
 
@Nkosi If you are asking about the short reasons (e.g. t, u, etc.) which the Close Vote Request Generator script has for substitutions: The text entered is split on spaces and the resulting words substituted if they exactly match the any reason. Thus, if you want to use those short reasons, you need to have one as either the first and only character (or followed by a space), or separated by spaces from any other text.
 
@Makyen yeah. i mis-read the readme where it had for example l: library/tool/resource. i thought the space was after the colon when it was to exclude the colon altogether.
 
@Nkosi Yeah, the explanation was not clear to me at first either. I ended up looking in the code to see what it was doing.
 
4:17 PM
@AshishAhuja The filter score on the above FireAlarm post is 44. Is that expected? I thought there was a threshold of 35.
 
4:48 PM
1
Q: Burninate request: [paypal] tag

CœurThe paypal tag keeps popping up. It currently has 16,613 questions tagged. Why suggest to burninate? It is ambiguous -- is it referring to one of the many "Paypal SDK", or to "PayPal Subscriptions", or the "Paypal.com" site? It is the name of a company, such as "Microsoft", which doesn't narro...

 
@Feeds @Machavity that's exactly opposing your post of yesterday
 
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