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user4639281
Their One Less To Go script is funny. Randomly delete one file.
00:56
Why isn't that nuked yet ^^
01:09
@TinyGiant Nice. I that's why I pipe all my data there. It's fast as hell
user4639281
02:08
"Each closure status should require five close votes, meaning that five (?) users must vote to close for the same reason." - that will make closing harder than it is now
I'm not that big of a fan with #5 either
#6 could cause much headache for everyone
Regarding @TinyGiant's proposal
user4639281
@JanDvorak Which is why I put the question mark there. That is currently being discussed on github
user4639281
@JanDvorak #5 and #6 are only there to prevent close wars. #6 should be loose enough that someone would have to be really bad at closing stuff for it to be invoked
It still punishes people for getting dragged into a close/reopen war
user4639281
Only if you did it on a regular basis
user4639281
02:15
And you shouldn't participate in a war, just flag then the moderator can impose a ban and be done with it.
user4639281
Feel free to start issues on the github repo
This punishes those who participate early in a post that would later become contentious, not those who have the last say in the fight
user4639281
Only if the final status (before the question is edited) was not the one you voted for.
user4639281
And again, only if this is happening on a very regular basis, and you're getting involved in wars on a regular basis.
user4639281
If close wars become that much of a common thing, then there is a bigger problem.
02:20
While we're revamping things, how about getting counter-voting into effect?
As in, you can vote to reopen as soon as there's a closevote, and it kills the closevote
@JanDvorak that seems to defeat the point of voting
your vote is not to 'counter' someone else's opposite vote
Not really. Reopen votes are counters to closevotes, except they round down to a multiple of five before subtracting
user4639281
Feel free to start an issue, everyone can discuss it. I don't have a solid opinion on that at the moment.
reopen votes are not counters to close votes
they are actions to take on an already closed question
user4639281
It would be a leave open vote
user4639281
02:27
I think that if we lower the close vote requirement in some way, reopening it wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is now.
user4639281
I'm actually in favor of just lowering the required votes to 3.
what is the issue with reopening now?
Or are you saying it's an issue that closing is so hard when reopening it basically wipes out everything the CVers did?
Maybe I missed something, but if it is about lowering requirement for CVs: How about 3 votes with same reason to close or 5 votes with any combination of reasons? Only one reason per vote (more would make the whole thing even more complicated, if in doubt flip a coin, more than 3 possible reasons are not very common).
user4639281
@TylerH I'm saying that a large majority of closed questions don't get reopened, part of the reason is because reopening questions currently requires too many users.
user4639281
@Olaf I would want a minimum of 3 close votes before showing a close reason. There should be some consensus.
user4639281
02:37
So three votes to close for any given reason, and three votes to reopen for each reason. Each user with > 3k rep gets one close vote per reason and one reopen vote per reason
user4639281
You can then vote to reopen for one reason while simultaneously voting to close for another reason.
@TinyGiant I did not even say when the reason should be shown. But maybe after 3 votes the reasons should be shown unconditionally. And for a closed question, all reason should be shown. Especially if hammered; I often see dup-hammered questions which I CVed for a different reason and which are not dups (or not for the same reason as the hammer).
@TinyGiant this will get closevoters to camp on a question to wait until their closevote is countered to cast another one
user4639281
@JanDvorak Which is where #6 comes into play
@TinyGiant re-open should have 5 votes if 3 CVs have the same reason, otherwise it shoudl require 3. That represents the lack of consensus why it was closed and makes re-open harder if there was consensus for closing.
user4639281
02:39
@Olaf So situation: three users vote as too, one user votes as no repro, the no repro should be shown?
@TinyGiant That is too complicated.
user4639281
@Olaf which is why we should treat each closure status individually
@TinyGiant All should be shown. But I'm fine if alternative reasons are only shown if hammered.
user4639281
If three users vote to close for a reason, the question is closed for that reason. If at any point while the question is closed three users vote to close for another reason, that reason is shown also.
So, if you can only cast one closevote at a time but multiple in total, whose closevote does a reopen vote counter? None of those until the whole close reason is countered?
user4639281
02:42
@JanDvorak You can cast one close vote per reason, the question can be closed for multiple reasons concurrently.
@TinyGiant so did you mistype then? you said "if we lower the close vote requirement, reopening it wouldn't be as much of an issue"
did you mean to say "if we lower the reopen vote requirement" instead?
So, I can cast multiple votes at once?
user4639281
@JanDvorak Yes
And all of them count for the three CV total?
user4639281
@TylerH I meant: if we lower the vote requirement, reopening it wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is now
user4639281
02:43
@JanDvorak for that reason yes.
@TinyGiant the vote requirement for what action? reopening or closing?
user4639281
Each reason must have three close votes to be invoked.
user4639281
@TylerH both should be the same
Oh... you want three people to agree on a single reason.
both are the same now
but I disagree, I think reopening something should be harder than closing it
user4639281
02:44
@TylerH exactly, if we lower one, we should lower the other.
@JanDvorak To be more clear: You can cast 1 vote. That vote can be for multiple reasons. You can change the reasons for your 1 vote multiple times.
How about we make it more fair and can cast a weight for every close reason, say 0-5 (0=not vaild). It gets closed if there are 9 points in any cathegory, or 15 in total. Re-open has to counter that weight.
this is all way too complicated
if you think it ought to be closed, cast a close vote
user4639281
@Makyen No, that isn't what I had in mind. I envisioned you having one vote per reason per question
if we do 'matching' close vote then we'd have to do away with the custom cv reason
which would be terrible
02:45
@TylerH Weigthing is fun :-)
user4639281
@TylerH Unless we add the ability to agree with a custom reason
@Olaf custodial work isn't fun
@TinyGiant why don't we just require a question to have 5 CVs of any kind on it for it to be closed?
@TylerH You did notice the emoticon, did you?
user4639281
The main part of the idea is that we can show multiple reasons at once to the user, but each reason should require some amount of consensus to be shown.
@Olaf yes it was a smiley face which isn't indicative of sarcasm if you meant that sarcastically
user4639281
02:47
Each reason should be completely separate of each other reason.
@TinyGiant I think that puts the burden of closing a question too far out of reach
user4639281
They should have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
user4639281
@TylerH three people agreeing that a question is off-topic for one reason?
@TinyGiant any reason with 2+ CVs should be shown. If none, all should be shown (very rare). If hammered, all reasons should be shown.
user4639281
You could literally vote to close the question for every single reason.
02:48
@TinyGiant Then what's the point of having reasons or vote limits
Combine with my proposal of 3 equal CVs to close.
user4639281
Just because you can abuse the system doesn't mean you should
The first thing I want to hear is 'what's wrong with the current system'
@TinyGiant Hmmm... OK that is somewhat different than what I understood. I understood you to be saying that you your maximum number of "close votes" per day was the number of questions on which you could vote and that all reasons on one question consumed a single one of those close votes.
@TinyGiant Sorry, but I think selecting multiple reasons for one CV is not a good idea. That leads to even more confusion for voters and askers.
user4639281
02:51
Say I vote to close as too broad, primarily opinion based, and resource request; you close as unclear, primarily opinion based, and resource request; olaf closes for general computing, primarily opinion based, and resource request. The question is now closed as primarily opinion based, and resource request.
user4639281
@Olaf it's not one cv, each cv is separate.
I think that's unnecessarily complicated
I'm fine with complexity
user4639281
Why? We all agreed that it was primarily opinion based and a resource request. We couldn't agree on anything else.
Why not pick one or the other, why the need to pick both?
02:52
We agreed it needs to be closed
@TylerH to provide better guidance to the user
What happens when voters are lazy and don't want to tick two boxes?
Then their votes count for slightly less
@JanDvorak You know the rate at which users read the reason banner when their question is closed
user4639281
@TylerH they should not be so lazy
what makes you think these people will be better off presented with two paragraphs of text instead of one
02:54
@TinyGiant By CV I mean the actual close vote. Not each reason. CMIIW, but as I understand it, you want to seperate reason and vote. So one vote to close the question, but any combination of reasons. Which I think is not a good idea.
Some people do read that
some but not most
user4639281
@Olaf That is not what I'm proposing. Each reason should be voted on separately of each other.
I would much rather have old CV reasons back than have this Rube Goldberg system of close voting
OK, how about a binary closed / not closed system where all reasoning is offloaded to the comments?
user4639281
02:55
Right now the system works really well if all you want is to close and delete everything. If you have any interest in improving content, good luck.
@JanDvorak So leave a comment if your reason does not show up. Or - as I propose show all reasons with >=2 votes and all for hammers.
Would we get similar results (or at least 50–60% there) with the current system, but by just displaying all the reasons users selected for close votes?
@Olaf That's a fine suggestion
@TinyGiant So we should spent multiple points from our dayly contingent for one question? Who will do that??
user4639281
@Olaf no, you can still close 50 questions per day
02:56
@JanDvorak Which I wrote some comments above already ;-)
user4639281
It just counts by questions instead of votes.
user4639281
if you vote to close a question once in a given day, it only counts as one against your daily limit
!vote no-revamp
@TinyGiant Sorry, but I don't understand then how you mean it. Either you split vote and reason or you have one vote per reason.
@JanDvorak ! like "not"?
user4639281
@Olaf No, instead of being limited to 50 close votes per day, you're limited to close voting 50 questions per day.
02:58
! as in command
@JanDvorak plopp!
morning!
@TinyGiant I still think it is too complicated and not really helpful. Briefly: not worth the effort.
@AshishAhuja night!
@TinyGiant So if your interest is in improving content why not just make reopening take 4 votes instead of 5 so that it's easier to salvage a question from the closed graveyard
@TinyGiant Which sounds functionally identical to 50 questio-close-votes each can have multiple reasons, and the reasons can be changed. I'm not sure how this differs from what I described earlier.
user4639281
03:01
@TylerH Because the user is also not getting all of the guidance necessary to make their question worth reopening. Sure users comment here and there, but that is very inconsistent, and often by the time I've gotten to the question, everyone has moved on.
So just let users always see close vote reasons on their question while any are present?
user4639281
@Makyen Because–how I understand it–you're suggesting that you can retract your close vote and throw it on a different reason?
user4639281
@TylerH no consensus
@TinyGiant I don't understand that response to my question
@Makyen Yes, that's what I mean with "seperation vote and reason".
03:04
are you saying you suggested that here and there was no consensus among the people here whether that's a good idea?
user4639281
I mean there would not necessarily be any consensus for a given reason even though it would be shown
Doesn't matter if there is consensus
@TinyGiant At least for C and embedded, I don't see that as a problem.
if two people vote to close a question for two different reasons, OP can see those two reasons
user4639281
What if the close voter is flat out wrong
03:05
How about a "request re-open button for the user only. With pings to the close-voters?
Then the community can correct that or the OP can ignore it
or ask 'why'
voters are often flat out wrong
user4639281
@Olaf Again, if all you want is for everything to be closed and deleted, the current system works fine.
@TinyGiant Sort-of, you can completely retract your close vote (as you can now), or add/remove close reasons while keeping your close vote active. Such is sometimes/often needed when the question is edited.
user4639281
@TylerH Can't ignore it if the question is closed
the likelihood of 5 close voters being flatout wrong is probably neglible
but they can already see the reason once it's closed
user4639281
03:06
@Makyen I think we're basically saying the same thing using very different wording
I'm talking about letting them see pending close vote reasons
when there's just one or two on a question
user4639281
Ohh
user4639281
That's a good idea.
user4639281
But I believe there is a reason that you can't see close votes on your own questions as a new user.
@TinyGiant That's why I proposed the button. Currently asker's main problem is how to inform ppl he edited the question and wants to re-open it. So the question is exactly that: how to inform ...
03:08
@TinyGiant I'm getting that impression.
@TinyGiant it gets unlocked at 250 rep, IIRC
@TinyGiant I can't imagine a good one at this point in time
@Olaf how about a review queue where people can vote whether to reopen or not?
user4639281
@Olaf The askers main problem is that he doesn't know all of the reasons why their question is off-topic, and voters do see the question but don't vote to reopen it because the question is still off-topic for other reasons.
let's see what meta has to say
user4639281
03:09
@TylerH something to do with loss aversion and whining
ooh, sweet.
@JanDvorak I think it would be a good idea to inform the closers directly.
first post is shog declining that feature request because, basically, he doesn't want to run the risk of confusing users in case close voters are wrong or it doesn't get closed
@Olaf I agree that there should be a way for the OP to (once, maybe twice?) explicitly ask for the question to be reopened. As it is, any edit, even if it is by someone else who just improved formatting is the one and only automatic entry into the reopen review queue.
user4639281
@TylerH I'm basically arguing the same thing. Some kind of consensus is necessary.
03:11
@TinyGiant Is that really a problem? Ok, for mcve, this might be true, but not for all reasons. Most POB, TB or "request for external resources" stay OT for those reason.
user4639281
@Olaf An unclear question is edited to be a clear resource request. Does anyone ever interact with the post again? Probably not.
second post is on MSE by robert harvey who basically just punts to the moderators
user4639281
That question might actually be on-topic if it were to ask how to do something, instead of for a tool to do something, but the author is never told that resource requests are off-topic and that's why no one is bothering with their question.
@Makyen Problem is the queue will not explicitly inform the CVrs; it is unspecific. But then OP can ping-comment the close-voters anyway. Butr to me that one is too complicated. Most askers either give up once closed, or start a fight which does not really help their case.
3rd example on mse also has them ignoring the problem
oh well
user4639281
03:15
@Olaf This whole proposal is intended to get both askers and close voters more involved in improving questions.
user4639281
Possibly in turn improving question asking on Stack Overflow and user engagement in general.
@TinyGiant Yeah, I don't like that :-)
How about +1 reputation whenever a question you cast a reopen vote on gets reopened
@TinyGiant So OP can ask to re-open (by my proposed button) and we can change the vote (which is a good idea anyway). So he will get the new reason once 2 or more CVs changed. How often do you allow an asker to edit and request re-open?
@TylerH then I want the same for closures.
user4639281
03:17
@Olaf Once per close reason.
but then again it creates venue for socks
@JanDvorak Not really what I want tbh (+1 for voting that turns successful) but I don't know right now of a way to tie it to "improving a question"
Maybe +1 if OP marks your close vote reason or comment helpful and then edits the question within 12 hours
user4639281
I know when I first asked a question here, I didn't know what a good question was. My question got one or two downvotes after a while, then was closed. I edited my question to address what I thought was the only problem, then waited for it to be reopened. Nothing happened after a while so I went to meta and asked what was wrong with my question, only to find out that it was off-topic for multiple reasons, which was what was preventing it from being reopened. No one had bothered to tell me this.
@TinyGiant Nah! most noobs can hardly handle the current easy system. They hardly RTFM now.
user4639281
I ended up deleting the question and the meta post because it was way too far off-topic.
03:21
@TinyGiant That's why I propose the reasons should be shown (or at least all with 2+ voters). But I don't see why we need to check multiple reasons for a CV.
user4639281
@Olaf You don't need to check multiple reasons unless the post is off-topic for multiple reasons.
user4639281
And reasons should not be shown unless there is consensus, so if you're going to show multiple reasons, you need consensus for each reason, which means you need votes for each reason.
too complicated
Well, I think I state my opinion clearly.
@JanDvorak exactly.
@Olaf Yeah, most noobs hardly RTFM now, but the ones that do are the ones we want to keep and provide good information to.
03:27
We should teach them to search, not to ask
@Makyen Real programmers don't read manuals;-) Seriously: I would not take this as a hard criterion. Everyone will stop reading the manual if that becomes too complicated and if the underlying system is too much effort. Remember askers have the head busy with their problem and don't want to read 20 minutes of user's guide before asking.
user4639281
It seems like the real question is should we even care about improving low quality content, or should we just delete all of the low quality content as soon as humanly possible?
@JanDvorak ... which would make 95-99% of the C questions obsolete.
@JanDvorak That would be ideal. Although, part of being able to solve a problem is being able to articulate and explain what the problem is. Just the process of doing so can often result in the user solving their own problem. See Rubber duck debugging
user4639281
03:31
@JanDvorak My question was not on Stack Overflow before I asked it, neither was the answer to be found through searching.
@TinyGiant I vote for the latter
user4639281
@JanDvorak So it doesn't matter if that could be a good question, it should be deleted immediately because it is not currently a good question?
user4639281
I would personally have left and never come back in that case.
Probably not that aggressive deletion, but I'm all for brutally swift closure
user4639281
@JanDvorak Closure for improvement, or closure for deletion?
03:33
@TinyGiant IMO one can most times see from the first version if OP will make it somewhat presentable or not. Or can do it; many askers are simply not able to understand the problem at all, be it because they are not really interested (mandatory programming courses at school are nonsense), or because they lack basics.
Closure for preventing answers. Long term fate pending examination.
user4639281
@JanDvorak that implies pending examination, which currently is a rare occurence.
And yes, plenty of questions are simply unalvageable
@TinyGiant in which case a roomba should do
user4639281
@Olaf Inversely, some questions have multiple problems but could be good questions, which will never be improved because the user is not given enough guidance to do so.
Hmm, hoiw about a timer? Close-warning with - say - 30 minutes to improve and CVers to retract the vote. Otherwise close.
user4639281
03:35
@JanDvorak So forget improvement, let's just delete everything and alienate users.
I didn't say that
user4639281
If most closed questions are never followed up on, then even if the intention is good, the end result is that the content is deleted, and the user is alienated.
@TinyGiant Not sure what you refer to, but for C I disagree about the missing guidance. On the contrary, there is a lot of help in the comments, often beyond what I see on-topic.
@TinyGiant If they don't respond to closure, it's not our fault
user4639281
@Olaf I often review old closed questions and see inadequate guidance.
user4639281
03:38
@JanDvorak They do respond, we don't
user4639281
That is the problem
Now that's something to discuss handling, but revamping the close reasons won't do it
user4639281
Like I said, I edited my question to address the reason it was closed, but was not told the other reasons why it was off-topic, so my question was not reopened.
@TinyGiant Honestly: There are some kinds of askers which should better bother other sites. Best their teachers, tutors, etc.
@Olaf AGF
03:40
@JanDvorak "AGF"?
user4639281
@Olaf But there are many other users who get unfairly lumped in with these users.
assume good faith
user4639281
Maybe we should just close the doors to new questions and just start curating the existing content.
Honestly, I'm for, at least kinda
@JanDvorak I judge by the specific case. But yes, there are.
user4639281
03:42
If we don't make an effort to help improve low quality content, and in turn the quality of new content in general, we're eventually just going to be overrun by crap and everyone interested in answering questions will have left.
user4639281
That's the whole idea behind triage, the H&I, commenting, editing, hell most of the site.
user4639281
Not to mention, that's the whole idea behind closing itself.
user4639281
If we don't care about improving low quality content, we should just remove closure altogether and replace that system with deletion.
@TinyGiant That's not what I mean in general. But for C for example indeed far by most questions are actually dups of one kind or another. And only part of them get closed as such, because some ppl use them to get reps instead of dup-closing despite better knowledge.
Yep, the rep-whoring rep-hoarding is a big part of the problem
03:48
@TinyGiant Might be a bit provocative, but: why should we be interested improving questions if their askers are not?
user4639281
@Olaf As I've already said, in many cases they are, but no one is willing to help them improve their questions
user4639281
That's one of the problem's I'm trying to fix
user4639281
Once a question is closed, no one but the OP cares about it anymore.
@TinyGiant As I wrote: that might depend on the tags. Quite often the community shows more interest improvving rubbish(sic!) questions than the poster. Then there are thos posters who try to learn programming by asking here and youtube videos of questionable quality. Looks like reading books has become outdated.
user4639281
03:52
There's a difference between not closing crap questions, and not improving crap questions where the author has tried to fix the question.
user4639281
Though both are equally bad for the site.
We are running in circles.
user4639281
@Olaf There's also users who post gibberish and nonsense and spam, but those are different problems. I'm not trying to solve every problem the site has in one shot.
I'll head for my bed, it's almost 05h here. Good night(moring/afternoon/etc.)
user4639281
cya
03:55
@TinyGiant I don't even talked about those. Basically I mean ppl who are soimply not able to ask a question. And I'm not sure that is a matter of the subject only.
user4639281
@Olaf No, I'm saying that you're mentioning users who are a problem, but are a different problem, I point this out by saying that there are many many different problems.
Anyway, I'm off ... \o
user4639281
Currently we are throwing the baby out with the bath water regularly, and I would like to change that, while not leaving bath water in the tub either.
Call Trump. He can make complex problems look simple.
@Olaf *resits urge to make one of the many jokes I could make off that*
03:59
Maybe we could have the close vote quota be based on whom we close rather than who closes? As in, make them pay for the wall
user4639281
@JanDvorak So a user can only have 50 of their questions close voted in a day?
Yep, that sounds reasonable
user4639281
thinking of a way to game that system in such a way that would allow a user to post closable questions without users being able to close vote those questions until the next day
Still open, its a Customer Service question.
05:12
sigh posted on Shog's "respect other views" SE thread and I have some guy (100k+ SO user to boot) who wants to argue that Trump (never even mentioned him) somehow invalidates everything I said. Keeps proving my point (wants to turn comments into an anti-Trump rant) and seems oblivious to that
@Machavity Welcome to the future
user4639281
@Machavity the irony abounds
05:42
I am thinking that there is no way to discuss politics these days in an online forum without having to deal with the true believers of both (or all) sides throwing darts.
user6820627
05:55
@TinyGiant I can, easily.
user3956566
07:37
@MikelF that is politics since the beginning of time (and religion)
07:55
@YvetteColomb True, but anonymity and distance have made things more contentious
08:16
@Makyen Lots of upvotes and stars. Is the post so problematic that it needs to be put on the fast track?
user6820627
@NisseEngström no.
user6820627
and old too.
@NisseEngström No, fast tracking does not appear to be needed. I just ran across it in an edit review. It's an old post from when such things were fine. I only posted it here because if it did not get some directed attention, the close vote would likely just age away (or at least that's what I've experienced previously).
user6820627
@Makyen [Skip]. That's an audit
@LearnHowToBeTransparent No, it was an actual edit, now applied to the post, with an additional edit after it.
08:23
I find it really strange that this answer was marked as spam/rude. It seems totally fine (just low quality). Screenshot
user6820627
> I dare you die before it happens.
@4castle Yeah, I certainly wouldn't have identified it as SPAM/rude/abusive. Bad, yes, but I would not have gone for SPAM.
@LearnHowToBeTransparent I thought that was just an expression for "it will take a long time"
user6820627
@4castle yeah but it has trigger words
It's formatted like a spam post would
08:37
@MikelF I usually deal with political discussions by just being politically neutral. I simply don't express an opinion.
user6820627
@4castle I usually deal with political discussions by expressing opinions and hear others say: "Don't express that! You will go to jail!".
@LearnHowToBeTransparent All I case say is: make good choices.
09:19
I marked a question as low quality, but a moderator disagreed: stackoverflow.com/questions/41514553/…
anyone have thoughts on this?
although on the surface, it seems like a decent question, the comments paint a different picture
Old shopping question, should be deleted, attracted spam today: stackoverflow.com/questions/17413213/…
@MikelF I don't think that question merits a VLQ flag. Here's the usage guidance for flagging as very low quality.
thanks for the clarification
it is still a duplicate at best, or perhaps a typo. he made his array too small and exceeded the bounds... the rest of the post obscures the basic nature of the issue... does the question as it stands provide any value to other users? I suggest not
09:39
@MikelF The appropriate thing to do is probably downvote, and flag it to be closed. In this case the "No MCVE" reason is probably best.
@4castle thanks for the guidance.
09:55
Plop!
user3956566
10:06
@MikelF yes and no, there have been bloodbaths historically over politics
10:22
Hey all. Could I get some opinions on the legitimacy of custom close vote reasons compared to the stock ones?
10:45
@Kyll On the right had side of these chat messages I see the text "4 The cv-pls backlog is pretty long. Please invest some votes in it (or ping a RO if you think something has to be trashed now). You can use this hel... - 21h ago by Kyll " . I clicked on the link and a "GitHub...js" file opens as text in my IE11 browser. How should I use this link?
Use another browser (Chrome or Firefox) which supports user scripts. I don't think IE 11 will work.
And you might need to install TamperMonkey or GreaseMonkey before it works.
Then, an orange button (requests) will appear next to the box where you type your message. (I had to find that out myself; maybe this can be added to the FAQ?)
@Glorfindel Thank you for the quick response. In Firefox I installed GreaseMonkeyand the script. Now I see lots of cv-pls requests. For those of us who mostly use IE it would be good to have FAQs or similar to explain user scripts more clearly.
11:05
But you're the only one here who uses IE. It's simpler to tell you directly :D
11:29
@AdrianHHH the FAQ is just on github here so feel free to do a PR but you might want to wait until @gunr2171 merged the subfolders branch to master (or do the PR on the subfolders branch)
 
1 hour later…
12:52
@Makyen FWIW, it is closed now. Completely OT imo.
@Glorfindel IE maybe, but there are other browsers which are not supported by user-scripts. I use rekonq for example (and I will not change to FF or Chrome for that).
Hiya
13:28
Just completed SO dev. survey, hell of an hour to complete it :)
@kayess where can you find this survey?
@Ferrybig nowhere, they invite you to it, there was a meta post about it
13:58
Sorry, wrong room. FYI, Techinpost.com is spammed quite regularly so it's more than just NAA.
14:35
@AdrianHHH See at the bottom of the Tools section on our site =)
14:45
@Glorfindel OK
@Yam now it's too broad
 
3 hours later…
17:52
Good morning!
Church was cancelled this morning due to freezing rain, so I have a lot of free time today
 
1 hour later…
18:59
@YvetteColomb Yes, but now that people can avoid the consequences of being obnoxious, they seem to enjoy doing it more
19:25
@MikelF Moderators have got very strict guidelines regarding VLQ questions. meta.stackoverflow.com/a/288450/4099593
@BhargavRao I understand that I was wrong when I flagged that question as VLQ after 4castle directed me to the relevant documentation
Yep, Just a heads up for the other users in the room too!
:)
@BhargavRao I do still feel it is a junk question, but I chose the wrong path to mark it as such
Flagging is similar to those 4 bins "recyclable", "biodegradable", "plastics" and "garbage".
You need to put junk in its right place. But unlike flags, Bins don't decline the junk.
And also, I'm poor at analogies.
19:33
Do you think this isn't garbage?
Better question - so, if I think a question can't be salvaged even by the asker, is it okay to flag it as VLQ?
And, this one can be salvaged by the asker?
That was a typo. It certainly didn't warrant a VLQ flag.
If the asker adds the crucial detail that he made the array too small, then I feel it becomes a typo-question
A VLQ flag on a question, goes straight to the mods.
19:36
so I should have flagged it as such
I have two goals I am trying to accompish
@BhargavRao after an hour's delay, isn't it so?
@JanDvorak Yep
Bottom-line, don't flag questions as VLQ...
the first has been done... I now understand that VLQ was not the correct path
I really don't understand the necessity of flagging questions as VLQ. If it needs to be closed, VTC and ask for a [cv-pls] here.
19:37
it won't happen again
We don't have that option on other sites
the cv-pls bit, I mean
other sites dont' have the same volume of questions though
It's also more clicks :-(
I was under the impression that I could not correct my designation once I had thrown a flag
Oh, I'm not sure of other sites. The mods there might have their own interpretation of it.
19:39
so I brought it up in here
@MikelF You can retract flags
@MikelF I think there's a recent-ish ability to unflag stuff isn't there?
I've never tested it because I am afraid I will do it wrong and then get smacked by a mod for flagging something that doesn't need to be flagged
by the way @Glorfindel you can run user scripts on IE with GreasemonkeyIE which IIRC works in IE8+
obviously not all user scripts will work and there's likely a way smaller subset that will work on IE than on Firefox and Chrome, but it is still possible
well, it appears I have met both of my goals. I better understand which flags to use, and the post in question has been dealt with. Win-Win
win-win for you, but the flags are still a bit of a minefield
at least for new users
@Glorfindel thanks
19:44
@TylerH ah, OK. TIL...
@MikelF Now pay the SOCVR room tax of two waffles for everyone
@Louis I wish Roomba would delete a closed question after 24 hours anyway if the question is at -5 net votes or more, with the exception of a positive-scoring, accepted answer.
@Glorfindel Those are disabled here, right?
No, the command doesn't exist. Smokey cooks only !!/brownies. I'll submit a FR.
@TylerH As I recall it is "accepted or positive-score"
@Louis right, i'm saying I wish it were positive scoring and accepted
e.g. if there is a -5 closed question and an accepted zero-score answer, that gets roomba'd. Or a -5 closed question and a +2 not-accepted answer, that gets roomba'd
19:49
@TylerH Sorry, I tabbed too fast and missed that bit. Time for me to wear the hat of shame.
Shaaaaaame
Looking at the revisions, does help to mark certain "random looking NAA flags" as helpful stackoverflow.com/posts/41535281/revisions
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