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10:00 AM
And I don't remember last time I had some.
 
@RyanM "I'm not your bro, mate!"
 
Rob
@sideshowbarker 'Mate' is fine, just a case of a bad translation
 
I see
 
Rob
If someone asks not to be called mate, then don't. Otherwise, no problem with the word
 
"Matey" might be better if they're like, an officer on a pirate ship
 
10:09 AM
@E_net4isfriendly too much sugar
 
@Rob 😳
 
Rob
Can't tell if that's a worried face or a smile
 
@RyanM The bad news is, you aren't special. They call everyone that. Looking at their recent comments, pretty much all of them start with "bro".
 
I think it's a "Are you kidding me?!?"-face
 
10:13 AM
@RyanM raised eyebrows those eyebrows don't seem to be raised
 
Rob
Hmm, well, we can't really judge whether or not a word is okay based on how google translates it, can we?
 
We can't, no. But even if google translates it correctly, I still don't find it appropriate. It's like being called "Friend" or "Love" or "Idiot". I may not be either to them.
 
Rob
Two of those are not like the other
 
There's not a lot of difference in "So, I just need to initialize the array, love?" and "So, I just need to initialize the array, bro?". They're both out of place. I'm not their lover and not their brother.
Actually I may be the last of the three to them ;)
 
Rob
10:18 AM
Yes, I'm not arguing that those are okay. Calling someone 'friend' is hardly offensive. Is it necessary on a programming site? Probably not. But is it inappropriate? Hardly
But anyway, the discussion started because people thought the word was gendered. It's not
 
I think it depends on perspective. Some people find them inappropriate and even offensive.
 
That reminds me, once someone thanked me for an answer saying it was a good according "KISS principle" and a emoji with kissing lips
 
Rob
@Scratte If someone is offended by being called 'friend', then honestly, no amount of moderation or word-crafting will make everyone happy.
3
 
I suppose not. I'm not sure it can't be deliberately used to belittle people though.
 
Why you so mad, friend?
 
Rob
10:22 AM
Well, as I said earlier, if someone asks not to be called something, then don't call them that. Pretty simple. If they've said 'friend' in a deliberately offensive way, the problem is their manner of speaking, not the word
 
@Scratte It surely can, but when it's been directed at me on SO, it's usually appreciative.
e.g., "Thank you so much, friend! I have been fighting with this all day!"
 
Anything can be used to belittle people. Reading offense into individual words just doesn't work. Remember that thing about presuming good faith?
 
Contrast with "Listen, friend, if you don't want to solve my problem, I don't need to hear from you." It's the context that makes the meaning.
 
@RyanM Yes, I can see that it can go both ways. I just start thinking "what made us friends?!?" :)
 
@Scratte It's usually that I solved their problem :-p
 
10:24 AM
"To my dear idiot friend: ..."
 
I consider it a compliment that I helped them enough to consider me, however briefly, a friend.
 
@RyanM Doesn't really make you friends, though, does it? I mean, would you give them your number and go for coffee?
 
Rob
Well that's the beauty of human languages. Words aren't restricted to a precise, singular meaning
 
@Scratte Well no, that would require a mutual friendship. I may be their friend, but they're probably not mine...especially if they don't accept my answer ;-)
 
Come to think of it, I'd rather have someone call me an idiot than a friend. The first one isn't pretending something it's not.
 
10:28 AM
What if it's true though?
 
While I understand your feeling that someone calling you a "friend" merely because you typed some words they found helpful into a textbox trivializes the term and/or your other more meaningful relationships, I don't think it is reasonable to take offense at it. No harm is meant by the person who calls you this.
 
@CodyGray That is true. They may also have called me George or Sally and meant no harm :)
 
But then again, if someone on SO is your friend, you shouldn't be voting on each other's posts
 
@Scratte I...don't see how that is a relevant analogy.
 
@oguzismail Are you aware that the relevant tags were not there because those were used?
 
10:30 AM
@JohnDvorak Or answering them.
 
The real solution, I admit, is to not have friends.
 
And you removed calculated field where the question has a calculated field? Are you aware of that too? @oguzismail?
@oguzismail just because the question has a keyword, doesn't mean it has to use those tags!
If you are going to complain at least know the topic!
 
Why are there so many people who want to use Logitech mice with the Lua scripting language?
 
@CodyGray There is a programmable software that exposes an api.
 
@Braiam My 2 cents: I'd point to one of the suggested edit reject reasons here: "Tags should help to describe what the question is about, not just what it contains."
I wonder if I can use scripting to work around their incredibly broken G-HUB software...
 
10:41 AM
You don't need any software. Don't install all that shovelware. Just install the driver.
 
@RyanM Exactly, just because you disagree with me on a conceptual level doesn't mean that you must also do it at every edit I do.
It makes no sense.
 
@Braiam I am, you could have just added proc-sql and sas tags, recalculated tag was negligible. I complained because this was not the first time you did that. Just stop making such edits, having gazillion reps on barely moderated SE sites with very low quality standards doesn't mean you can deface posts like that.
 
What if you want to have nice RGB colors?
 
@oguzismail Again, that query doesn't ask about any of those.
 
@Dharman Buy a strand of holiday lights and string it around your computer?
 
10:42 AM
Their problems was the syntax error and a lack of knowledge of sas
 
@sideshowbarker that's right reopening it to close it as a duplicate. The title of the question is quite good with generic keywords that may be used often when google searching.
 
@CodyGray Unfortunately, the software is needed to configure some useful functionality...though once that's configured, the headset actually works considerably better without the software installed...
 
beware: you're talking to a touchpad evangelist
to him scripting a mouse is almost as bad as using python
 
@AndrasDeak mouse >> good touchpad > trackpoint > bad touchpad >> touchscreen
 
keyboard > mouse
 
10:44 AM
@CodyGray oh, I must have misread something earlier, then
 
@CodyGray I think what you are looking for MCU
 
@AndrasDeak We were talking about how touchscreens are garbage.
 
remote controller >>> any input
*ducks*
 
trackpoint vs. bad touchpad is...a close call for me.
 
Bah. Just use a double touchscreen laptop. It costs a small fortune, but it can easily switch between a touchpad mode and a really big keyboard.
 
10:45 AM
@CodyGray so? Why compare it to a touchpad when a mouse is even better? :P
 
Even if combined together the question is still not on-topic right? stackoverflow.com/q/63187911/1839439
 
@AndrasDeak A mouse doesn't fit in my lap
 
I wouldn't want a mouse for my phone.
 
@CodyGray I had a rat for 3 years and even he fit in my lap...
 
@kemicofaghost I see now, thanks. I don’t know what the policy is on re-opening a question with the intent that it will end up being closed again. I’m personally happy to vote to re-open it as long as it’s not against policy. Maybe need a moderator or room owner to weigh in with some guidance.
 
10:46 AM
Anyways, input device depends on the UI.
 
@sideshowbarker It's not against policy, it's just generally pointless because it takes a lot of effort and wastes votes that could be better directed at something more useful. I'm happy to do it, though, if someone will make a clear request.
 
Yeah. Mouse + TUI synergizes poorly.
 
Touchscreens are great if the software you're using supports it and you also have a proper pointing device, because touchscreens on computers are terrible pointing devices. On Linux, "software that supports it" is almost entirely Chromium-based software. Nothing else does.
 
@RyanM Also, the interface should be geared towards using it with touching devices.
 
@RyanM fortunately nobody has told that to any of my linux laptops
 
10:48 AM
Remember Windows 8? No? Me neither. :D
 
@Braiam Yeah, not gonna lie: my main use case is zooming in on web pages. But I did it a lot when I was using my laptop.
 
@CodyGray thanks yeah that’s kind of what I thought (about it consuming votes needlessly)
 
zoom on pinch would make me want to wipe my OS and install something that doesn't support it
 
@RyanM I rarely have to zoom a web page :D
 
@RyanM What's wrong with Ctrl-+?
 
10:50 AM
Why @andras? Feels natural. And for all the crap that Apple gets, that one is very intuitive.
 
@Dharman "add what where?"
 
@CodyGray Wrong kind of zoom: I don't want reflow, I want to scale what's already rendered.
 
@Braiam one of many reasons why I'm not an apple user :)
 
@CodyGray Laptop with 10keyless keyboard?
 
@AndrasDeak Add ads to a website
 
10:51 AM
@AndrasDeak Flash news: everyone imitates apple :D
 
@Braiam It's great for showing people things, either people nearby or especially over a video call with limited resolution
 
Doesn't require the numpad. There's a "+" key on every keyboard, or there should be
 
@CodyGray I flagged the question. Is that good enough for you? stackoverflow.com/questions/63188904/…
 
Behind a shift Cody.
 
Oh no, not the shift! [nicolas_cage_bees.gif]
 
10:52 AM
Oh, just re-read what I wrote. Comes off as rude! but not what I meant to portray! sorry
 
it's not behind the shift on qwerty US though
@kemicofaghost oh, he had it coming. Nothing is good enough for him :P
 
@AndrasDeak It is... Just, most applications interpret Ctrl-= as equivalent to Ctrl-+
 
looks at is qwerty keyboard Are you lying to me?
 
@CodyGray ah, right, I got hung up on that once...when some silly program didn't recognize it :D Sorry
@Braiam apparently yes
 
I've seen MCU keyboards, but not MCU like mouses... are point device that symple?
 
10:54 AM
MCU == Microcontroller Unit?
 
Closed, reopened, deleted, undeleted. What happened?
 
Marvel cinematic universe, duh
You know those holographic screens? Yeah, like that.
 
@Dharman I picked off-topic, but then I reconsidered. I don't know if that Adobe program is actually a tool used by software developers or not. I saw "HTML" in the question and panicked.
 
he misclicked because he doesn't have a mouse
 
@CodyGray Actually programmable ;)
 
10:56 AM
There's no reason for the mouse itself to be programmable. Offload that to the main CPU.
@Lankymart It...doesn't look like something that needs code.... Are you sure?
 
@CodyGray Counterpoint: programming the device itself greatly lessens the need for the horrible desktop software
 
@RyanM Agreed, but it would add up to a dollar to the price. Can't have that.
 
@Lankymart Ugh, sharepoint :(
 
@DavidBuck No
 
11:00 AM
@DavidBuck general computing IMO: the fact that the RPM is software-development-related is irrelevant to the problem
or rather: the specific RPM does not seem relevant to the problem
 
@DavidBuck Unless you are creating rpm's you are very far from software development :D
 
I create RPMs every time I drive my car
 
That is what it looked like, but not something I'd worked with.
 
Yeah, once you involve yum or rpm you are far from it.
Questions about writing the .spec file, macros, using dev tools are typical software packaging questions
 
11:27 AM
@CodyGray they are wanting to programmically add document properties via VBScript, so show the code they've tried.
 
@Lankymart How do you know that there is any code that they've tried? They seem to be asking how to do it, not for debugging help.
 
@Lankymart As I was reading it, they didn't find the proper documentation. They have an idea of what to do, but can't find the function/code that allows them to achieve them.
I noted that one of the pages is dead
 
11:58 AM
@CodyGray Either way it's off-topic, asking how to do it is the same as wanting a tutorial or give me the codez mentality.
 
@Lankymart No, it's not. Asking how to accomplish some specific task is perfectly on-topic.
Stack Overflow is not a "debug my code for me" website. It's a Q&A site.
 
@Lankymart If it was like that I could not ask about a django problem for which I have no solution :D
 
They are asking for a code to do something they haven't attempted themselves how is that any different to the hundreds of give me the codez questions that get asked?
 
@Lankymart How can they make an attempt if they cannot find the relevant documents that allows them to take a shot at it?
 
12:10 PM
Afternoon.
 
@Braiam better google foo, I don't see enough of an attempt at researching the problem there, it's just a bunch of screenshots showing what they want in the GUI but done programatically.
Closest match off a 30 second search gives me - stackoverflow.com/a/22462605/692942
 
@Lankymart But that's not what they want, that's another question. They already have their code, they just want to bolt it to the ui.
 
@Braiam sorry you've lost me...what code? All they posted was a bunch of UI images nothing to do with code.
@Braiam oh, do you mean the links at the end of the question? stackoverflow.com/questions/22784719/…
@Braiam tbh, it's closed now. Feel free to flag for re-opening if you think it deserves it.
 
@Lankymart Do you need to post irrelevant code to ask a question?
 
1:27 PM
@Braiam No, but relevant code, yes.
 
@Lankymart How can I share code if the only thing that I have is the irrelevant pieces?
 
1:39 PM
Why are you discussing this? There is no requirement that Questions contain code, unless they are debug questions.
 
2:16 PM
@Scratte Are you asking me?
 
I really need to stop helping people on this site.
 
@Dharman More less-than-constructive feedback, I take it?
 
@Braiam It was a plural you. It bothers me when how-to Questions are closed for lacking code when they don't even need any
 
@Scratte Well, Cody and I were arguing that same point. :)
 
Yes. I've marked the date where you, Cody and I all agree on something.
 
2:37 PM
@AdrianMole Some people are ungrateful, some can't understand anything after you explain it to them multiple times, and most just ignore you. And also there are revenge downvotes.
 
But I find it to be an unsafe environment where a users Question can get closed out of opinion, not from the rules of the site.
@Dharman The middle one I understand :)
 
@Scratte Topicness is a matter of opinion, informed opinion, but still opinion.
Much of the "rules" are "guidance". The specifics are hashed out on a case by case basis.
 
That is a problem, in my opinion. There are rules set out in the help center. Getting a Question closed after following those rules, is not constructive to Stack Overflow.
 
Again, they are guidance, not rules. They more or less describe in a generic way how the site is supposed to work and what to expect. Before asking my first question I read all of them. AFAIK, none of my questions on SO has been closed.
 
That just makes you lucky. Some others are not. It gived Stack Overflow a bad reputation.
 
2:49 PM
@Scratte But also a good reputation
 
@Scratte I prefer having a "bad" reputation for a good reason rather than a bad reason.
 
@JeanneDark I don't think it does. When a perfectly on topic Question is closed, I'm not really sure what good reputation Stack Overflow gets from it. It's made me never ask a Question here.
 
Also remember, that topicness isn't all: there are on topic questions that are unclear, opinion based, too broad or duplicates :)
 
@Scratte Why do so many people come here to ask questions? Because of SO's reputation which again is based on quality control. For sure, people don't like it when their questions are then subjected to the same quality control...
 
@JeanneDark I'm not talking about quality control. I'm talking about closing a how-to Question because it's lacking code. It doesn't need code.
 
2:59 PM
@Scratte There do seem to be some reviewers/closers who get rather too 'robotic' about the need for code and details. My "Lucky Gold-Mine" question was actually closed (but not for very long) with "Needs debugging details!" Bizarre.
 
3:10 PM
@AdrianMole Oops.. I see it was closed :)
But it does bring me to that any Question can be closed. Meaning it's just luck if a good Question gets to stay open. Not everyone like the gamble that goes on with their perfectly valid Question
 
@Scratte But there's always the reopen queue and, if that fails, there's the Abysmal Abyss of Meta.
 
3:27 PM
Well.. meta goes the same way. My favorite Question had a roller coaster ride from meta. I do not not know, but I suspect users also didn't even want to wait for Roomba and gave it delete votes. Which I think is just despicable.
 
Whelp. I still think this question is spam, but the flag was declined. Any ideas?
 
3:43 PM
@E_net4isfriendly It'll Roomba soon..
 
@Scratte That is not quite the point, is it?
 
@Scratte question remains, irrespectively of roombas
 
The flag record stays as well. If this is not spam, I don't see why it isn't.
 
It's spam. Someone either didn't agree, didn't translate or misclicked. Best option is: meta.
 
@ArghyaSadhu out of close votes? :)
 
3:53 PM
@E_net4isfriendly Another mod just nuked the user
 
@desertnaut yes unfortunately
 
Rob
@E_net4isfriendly Best I can do is dispute it... Had to go in and debug Shog's old script, but done now :)
 
@ArghyaSadhu all good, we are here for you :)
 
All right, that spares my Meta visit. Thank you.
 
4:40 PM
This looks like General Computing to me, but thought I'd double-check before flagging... stackoverflow.com/questions/62591774/…
 
@DavidBuck I have been thinking the same, but I am never sure about these kind of borderline questions. I just leave them alone.
 
@Dharman I do with a lot of them but I want to increase my wider understanding over time, I like to ask the occasional clarifying question.
 
5:07 PM
@DavidBuck How can there be code block?
 
@Dharman There's only a single command shown. They've been asked for a link to the project as that block, on its own, doesn't explain the behaviour demonstrated. Either a link or a screenshot of more of the program is going to be needed to diagnose the behaviour.
 
WOW LQP review is almost empty
 
Quick! Send a call for more LQ content!
 
I pushed few in already.
We need to keep it alive
 
5:21 PM
LA and FP have been notably lacking the usual volume of NAAs recently. Plus mods have been whacking the queue as well as LQP reviewers.
 
@Dharman Mod queue is at 15, and we were at 1 this morning
 
@Machavity Sorry
 
@Dharman Slacker :P
 
In Review tools, under most deleted posts, no of the answers actually has the delete votes that I see on the post. They are not even deletable, because there is no downvote. Wondering if any one has the same
 
Honestly, the election got a bunch of inactive mods moving again. Bhargav has been an absolute machine in clearing flags. It's hard to believe that 10 days ago we were over 1k
6
 
5:28 PM
Wow, great achievement, bravo :)
This is what I see in the tools i.stack.imgur.com/qfl1O.png, and this is the answer: i.stack.imgur.com/Ru9S0.png. See, no downvote, no 'delete' link
 
@Vega Can you give link?
 
I cannot give the link in the review tools
 
@Vega This answer has two delete votes pending.
 
Why I cannot see?
 
If you are in LQP you can cast delete votes when a post is at 0 or less score.
Outside of review it has to be at -1 or less
 
5:41 PM
No, I am in review tools (+10K tools?). But that's not important, I don't see votes on that post
 
@Vega You can't delete positively scored answers :)
 
Yes, but it is in the delete queue
 
There is no delete queue
 
It's in the Low Quality Review Queue.
 
There is LQP (Low Quality Posts)
 
5:43 PM
I am talking of this: stackoverflow.com/tools. I can see delete votes on questions, but not on answers, this is not usual
 
@Vega I know, that shows you any post with pending delete votes. If you downvote it and refresh the page it would show you the link.
 
I don't see the delete votes on the post: i.stack.imgur.com/Ru9S0.png
 
@Vega On your screenshot it shows you correctly 2 pending delete votes and 1 more needed. The reason why you can't see the delete button on the post is because it is not downvoted
 
This post for example has two delete votes too, but I can't delete it due 1 being the accepted post unix.stackexchange.com/posts/599551/timeline
BTW, TIL: 20k users can delete accepted answers :D
I really didn't know that...
 
@Dharman The two delete votes are from LQP?
 
@Vega Yes, I said it few messages above
Sorry for not being clear enough
 
Ok, In VLQ reviewer cast their votes to delete, but it is not 'visible'. If I downvote and vote to delete, it's visible. What's the difference between two actions names?
 
What do you mean?
 
@Vega none. The LQRQ allows 20kers to bypass the <-1 requirement.
 
In both cases you vote to delete, and the votes are visible. You can see them in the timeline and in the 10k tools
 
5:52 PM
I thought casing delete vote is actually reflected on the post. It seems that voting to delete in VLQ has the same 'name'
 
@Vega It is a normal delete vote
 
It uses up your delete quota and 3 votes delete an answer
Only in LQP you don't need to downvote the answer
 
@Braiam answers have to be negatively scored though
 
It is maybe late here and I lack some understanding...
 
5:54 PM
In SO isn't as useful since a post only needs 4 recommend deletion nowadays.
 
can't remember if it's -1 or -2...
 
waffles
 
@TylerH I though that only mods could delete accepted answers
 
recommend deletion are for people who do not have answer-delete votes
 
@Dharman So that counts for full delete vote but doesn't show on the post until it is downvoted. I got it
 
6:01 PM
no
 
:(
I downvoted an answer and 2 delete votes appeared
 
Recommend deletion are not votes. They are review actions
 
There are scripts that allow 20kers to cast votes from LQP without spending delete votes, perhaps that's related?
 
@Dharman Then I am even more confused
 
Any CSS expert/gold badge holder around? This old question was recently edited and it looks like a duplicate of the other question mentioned in the comment and the accepted answer, but I'm not sure.
 
6:05 PM
@Vega On the review queue non-20k use recommend deletion, while 20kers use delete votes.
 
@Dharman They are not, quite, normal delete-votes. In addition to being able to give a "Delete" response on answers which are score >=0 , my experience was that "Delete" responses in the LQP review queue do not stack, at least not 100%, with delete votes that are on the post. There were definitely times when I delete-voted outside of the review queue, yet it still required 3 more than 2 "Delete" responses in the LQP queue to cause the post to be deleted.
I believe I also tested it the other way around. If the post is deleted from the LQP queue, then the delete-votes from users outside of the queue are not considered part of the deletion and they are not listed as users who voted to delete.
 
@ekad I'd say let's just delete it
 
@Makyen They are listed :/
 
@Braiam The times I tested it as one of the delete-voters outside the queue, I was definitely not listed as one of the people involved in the delete action.
 
Issac and G were from the reviews i.stack.imgur.com/vHHvY.png
 
6:08 PM
Then either something changed, or the conditions were different. I definitely noticed not being listed and specifically tested it, more than once (both noticing and testing).
 
The review does not list me as one of the reviewers i.stack.imgur.com/cYJ38.png
 
@Braiam nope, IIRC 20k users can delete them as long as they are negatively scored
it's just that accepted answers are not usually negatively scored. And they don't retain "accepted" status or indication once deleted so it's hard to tell after the fact
 
@Vega You as 20k user can cast delete votes on any answer scored <=-1. If an answer was pushed into LQP review then it requires 4 Rec.Del. actions or 3 Delete actions. Both of them are only review actions, but when you perform Delete action then the system uses your normal delete votes. They stay on the post outside of the review but the review to finish still requires 3 of them.
If you cast one outside of review and 2 inside it will not work. But it should work the other way around, first 2 delete votes in LQP and then one outside will delete the answer.
 
@Dharman Thank you very much for the patience and explanation:) I will re-read it tomorrow morning to be sure I don't miss anything. I have 1 downvote left and a few delete votes. I cannot use them because the answer posts are not downvoted. I will find some closed questions then
 
@Makyen sorry, should've been more clear; the way the script shows it makes it confusing when you put the target first
 
6:20 PM
@TylerH np. That I definitely agree with. We pesky humans get confused easily. :) In addition, the Archiver and URRS do not understand the concept of having a link to a post that's not supposed to be acted upon, other than the narrow case of an actual duplicate-target in a cv-pls.
 
@Makyen yeah; that happened to be the exact case when I responded :-)
 
7:00 PM
Is 4 different language tags for a regex Question a close reason? Like in this Question
 
@Scratte I would say such a question needs clarifying as to what language (and any other criteria) OP has to use
 
@SamuelLiew Thank you! I wanted to figure out the score param, but it didn't work.
 
@Machavity because they as many of us got encourged by seeing who were the 2 new excellent mods.. chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/50035514#50035514
 
Well, Bhargav encouraged me to run both times
@PetterFriberg Incidentally, Rob was talking about you. I think he's wanting to look at some Queen stuff. Not sure if he pinged you elsewhere
 
BR pinged me for a reboot to get it reconnected to Higgs, not sure if he needs something else
 
7:11 PM
@TylerH OK. I thought maybe they meant that any regex engine would be fine.
 
Shorthand on close voters?
 
@Andreas I think so. Or the close vote queue is too large.
 
@Scratte This queue in here? 6 unhandled requests in a row isn’t so usual.
 
No, I'm thinking about my unhandled flags
 
I was thinking about requests in here. My oldest unhandled standard flag is only a day old.
 
7:33 PM
 
Someone to the rescue. :)
 
@halfer If I remove the cs50 header, why wouldn't that code work?
Heh, the answer literally ignores it :)
 

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