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12:00 AM
@cigien I don't have a problem with it. It could be viewed that I don't have much say in it. :) It's under CC BY-SA 4.0, just like everything else. :) However, I do appreciate you asking.
 
Taking a step back, I think your perspective is far too colored by what is expedient, rather than by what is correct.
 
@cigien I'd rather prefer you link to a deleted post with a screen shot. That will spare an open post the meta effect.
 
@Scratte /s/screen shot/quoted text
 
@Makyen Of course I'd ask :) Thanks, I'll try to write what I can in my own words anyway, so I might not need to lift any text at all.
 
@CodyGray I'd counter that with resources to handle everything are not infinite and getting a perfectly correct outcome is only one of a set of possible outcomes, many of which are worse.
 
12:02 AM
Ah, thanks Cody, I forgot about screenshots :p
@Scratte Fair enough. Deleted post with screenshot it is.
 
@CodyGray Our asking an OP to put effort into creating an additional question which is quickly closed as a duplicate is rarely going to feel good to the OP.
 
@Makyen Sure, there has to be a balance. I balance it differently. That's why I consider the quality of the original question.
 
@Makyen I prefer D :) As long as it's not totally obvious how to deduce an Answer from looking at the parts.
 
@Scratte When did you start agreeing with me?
 
@Scratte I attempted to be quite clear with "contains two problems which are both clearly and obviously covered".
 
12:04 AM
So what's wrong with closing as "Need focus/Too broad" but SMEs noting that both sub-questions are duplicates (with links) in comments.
 
At the risk of a slippery-slope fallacy, consider that we, as moderators, can either sanction users with a custom written message detailing their infractions and how they can improve, or we can simply nuke the account. The latter is obviously faster and easier for us. It scales much better. But yet, we pretty much only do that with spammers. We don't do it with anyone who even so much as looks like a legitimate user.
So why not treat anything that is a legitimate question with the same amount of engagement?
 
@CodyGray Yes.. or user grayed out. cc @cigien
 
The concern here is that images aren't accessible, not the privacy of the users involved. CC BY-SA would actually require attribution, so graying out the user name is not a good solution.
 
@Scratte Ah, very good point. Thanks for the tip, no point shaming the OP.
 
@AdrianMole It's certainly possible, I just don't see how it's better.
 
12:06 AM
@CodyGray I usually argue with you when we disagree. I usually don't when I agree with you. Especially since you're much much better at making my points :)
 
Because it's more accurate.
 
Because it's not a duplicate! Semantics matter!
 
Hah! I said accurate where I should have said precise?
 
@Scratte Just want to make sure that you're feeling OK. And that you've noted this date down on your calendar. :-)
@AdrianMole No. Precision would be achieved by just doing the same wrong thing every time. :-)
 
hehe
 
12:08 AM
(I spend way too much time explaining to my engineering colleagues the difference between accuracy and precision.)
 
@Makyen Yes. Sometimes it's just very obvious to me, but not very obvious to the poster. I generally feel that users searching for something will know about the same as the poster. Not that it's always the case.
 
@CodyGray But, you've argued that it's too broad by having more than one issue. If it's too broad for having more than one issue, then it shouldn't be answered. I'd agree that there's a lot of situational differences here where any of the above options could be the best choice.
 
@CodyGray Hmm.. I've seen that a lot on meta.se though. Graying out users to avoid trouble in their way.
 
Yeah, there are kind of two separate issues here. First is the position Makyen is carving out, with the presumption that both questions clearly and obviously cover the original question. In that case, he says that it's appropriate to close it as a duplicate of two different questions, each covering a different issue.
The second is the specific case that cigien brought to my attention, where I would argue that the two questions did not clearly and obviously cover the original issue, because some dot-connecting/analysis was required.
 
@CodyGray What can I say. I missed you too.. I've strayed and perhaps so have everyone else ;)
 
12:12 AM
(I spend way too much time explaining to my biologist colleagues the difference between standard deviation and standard error.) ;-P
 
I guess I'm going to have to go digging through the transcript to see which one was discussed.
 
@AdrianMole Ohh, you might as well just give up on that.
3 hours ago, by cigien
Can a C++ hammer close this? It's a combination of 2 targets https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2697892 and https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1565600
 
@Makyen The link Cody is mentioning is for the latest one. But this one Cody disagrees with as well, and is the one I'm going to use on meta fwiw.
 
Note that we were looking at the original revision, not the current slimmed-down revision, which, I will admit, may be a duplicate of this (but even then, I'm not 100% convinced).
@cigien The difference in that case is that question is a lot less generally useful.
 
@CodyGray Maybe so, but you do disagree with the combination closure regardless, right? Or am I misremembering?
 
12:15 AM
No, I still do.
 
@cigien With all the "fuss" about attribution to the post you want to link to. You could also just give the general description of the issue and just a link as an example. But.. you should prepare to have it closed as a dupe ;)
 
@Scratte No fuss. I'm only linking to the original post, which is deleted anyway.
 
I just don't think a question can be a duplicate of a laundry list of other questions that each cover different portions and have to be added up in a separate step to get to an answer.
 
@CodyGray Ok, just checking. I won't mention names, but I plan on saying something along the lines of "there is disagreement on this issue between seasoned members of the community".
 
"Where can I buy apples?" => Marked as duplicate of: "Where can I buy land for a farm?"; "Where can I buy apple seeds?"; "How do I plant seeds?"; "What is the easiest way to harvest apples from trees?" (And then, later, a gold-badge holder added, "When should I fertilize my apple trees?")
4
 
12:18 AM
At last - apples!
 
An example that I see often is "how to make a button open an Activity [a new screen] when you click it" - it's so trivial that you can hardly say it lacks focus, but it's a duplicate of "how to make a View do something when you click it" and "how to open an Activity"
 
In other words Cody's saying, "how do you like them apples?" ;)
 
Here's the thing, @RyanM: why don't you just answer it with a nice, canonical answer, and then use that as the duplicate target in the future?
 
Because then what happens when they ask the exact same question about how to make an ImageView open an Activity when you click it? ...well, I guess that would be a duplicate.
 
Apples is basically a meme now. Reference is here.
 
12:20 AM
@CodyGray An interesting analogy. I do agree that it (using multiple dups) can certainly be taken too far.
 
@RyanM I'd say that's a duplicate of the one about a button. The process is the same for any control/widget, so it's a dupe.
 
On Stack Overflow oranges are apples too.. they're just wrong apples.
 
It's like a C++ compiler doing overload matching: a single implicit conversion is OK, but not more than that. :-)
 
I guess the part that feels most silly to me is that there are great answers explaining the multiple ways to do each of these things, and by re-answering them with the parts trivially combined, we're duplicating that information, but worse.
4
 
You can expect someone to implicitly substitute ImageView for Button (as long as they're essentially the same, and I'm assuming that they are), but you can't expect someone to grab bits and pieces from multiple questions and connect the dots.
@RyanM You don't have to repost it. You can reference those existing answers in your answer.
 
12:22 AM
(you're correct; they are)
Yeah...okay, I can buy that as a strategy.
 
I'm not trying to argue in favor of the duplication of information.
I just don't think that a blue banner that gets automatically inserted by the system is the proper place to handle this.
If the whole darn thing was editable, then, sure, connect the dots there.
(cigien frantically changes his [feature-request])
 
Hah, no feature-requests from me. Strictly discussion questions as far as I'm concerned.
 
Discussion about a possible feature request?
 
Who am I to say where discussions may lead? ;) But I won't be making a feature-request, because I don't want any new features. I think the current ability is fine, and lets me do what I think is appropriate, i.e. combo closures.
 
Sure, it lets you do what you want. What about others?
If such combo-closures are a good idea, how do folks who do not hold a gold tag badge pull them off?
They'd try, but they'd end up closing the question as just a duplicate of half (or a third, or quarter, or whatever) of the answer.
 
12:35 AM
Post a feature-request to remove combination duplicates? :)
 
I mean, I don't want to remove things. I'm sure there are edge cases where it's appropriate. And even if it's not, being able to add multiple dupe targets to the list is still a good idea, because the duplicates could be all exact duplicates of each other.
(...yes, I noticed the smiley)
 
@CodyGray If I understand it correctly, 3 mortals can each pick their favorite target, no? Then they all get added?
 
I'm not sure what you mean by others. Apart from the fact that I'm not sure that non-hammers should be making these calls, a big part of my argument is that it gives me the power to single-handedly close questions. It's a natural extension of hammer powers really.
 
@Scratte Yes, but only via coordinated effort. And why would an individual person do this? My "favorite" target is going to be the one that I personally think best answers the original question. That will probably the same favorite that the other 2 regular users chose. Now, we ended up getting it closed with half (or a third or a quarter) of an answer.
And I guess that really gets to the heart of why I think this is a problem.
 
I've marked today in my calendar too.. perhaps if you stay longer, I'll have to make little stick figures on those calendars.
 
12:40 AM
Presumably, at least one of those stick figures will be bespectacled?
 
@CodyGray But, that's largely what you've said is your preferred solution (combined with an edit of the question to just remove anything which isn't covered by the single duplicate).
 
@Makyen Hmm? My preferred solution is to post an answer that connects the dots.
Unless the question is crap, then my preferred solution is just to close as too broad or something morally equivalent.
 
@CodyGray Sure.. if I agree a lot..
Does anyone know when identical Answers are auto-flagged?
 
What do you mean "when"? It's fairly soon after they're posted, I believe. It doesn't run only once per day or anything like that.
 
Oh, thanks. I thought it was a daily job.
 
12:54 AM
Soon I won't need to post those requests... not soon enough...
 
@Nick All you have to do is answer a few duplicates? ;)
 
Huh, links to deleted posts in a meta post don't expand to the title :(
 
@Scratte yeah - that'd do it... then I could go back and hammer them all :)
 
@cigien Try the overview of a toilet, as Cody once called it: []()
 
@Scratte Haha, yeah that one works. Looks like a lambda without a definition to me ;)
 
12:58 AM
@cigien But why would it? Is the editor field suppose to know you're 10K?
 
@Scratte No, I just didn't realize that the links didn't expand if deleted. I'm not saying they should.
 
Ohh.. Ok. I guess I misunderstood your sad face then :)
 
It is clearly the top view of a toilet.
 
Listing the views: overhead view, aerial view and now also a top view ;)
 
2:22 AM
@Makyen I made the post. I wrote the text in my own words, but inspired by your text, at least as far as the bullets go. I don't think it requires attribution, but if you think it does, I'll add it in.
 
2:46 AM
@cigien I, personally, am ambivalent wrt. me getting attribution.
However, if I were writing your meta post, I would feel an obligation to provide a level of attribution. I'd probably add a note to the post linking to the conversation in SOCVR and saying that what you've written is a distillation of questions you still have surrounding the larger issue, and that while you were also thinking along similar lines that a reasonable amount of what was said [here] helped solidify what you were already thinking.
While there's an aspect of attribution which is a requirement, attribution primarily exists to let people know what's gone before and what the source for something is. The source for something, particularly in a conversation like we had above, can be mixed. It doesn't have to be a single person. It's not uncommon for people to be thinking along similar lines.
 
@Makyen Yes, that's very reasonable. Can I link to a SOCVR chat message then?
 
3:03 AM
@Makyen I've edited the post to attribute the discussion here, and added links to my messages that started conversations with you can Cody respectively.
 
@CodyGray what's the first recorded instance of that meme?
 
@Shree no, it's an Amazon customer support issue. I vtc'ed with a custom message.
 
@CodyGray accuracy is hitting the bullseye, precision is shooting tight groupings. A guy from TEXAS knows that sort of stuff :)
 
@Nick thanks.
 
3:17 AM
@CodyGray I'd probably just VTC it as a shopping request :)
 
3:50 AM
Are code-golf questions like this off-topic?
 
4:34 AM
I've been reading this question for the last three minutes thinking "Hey I know a great question reads quite like that totally related let me find it" until I realised that was what @cigien was asking about earlier in chat.
 
4:57 AM
@bad_coder As far as I know, I made it up, and mentioned it for the first time in here to Scratte.
@cigien This probably won't surprise you at this point, but... I think that question is on-topic.
While Code Golf exists, that's a challenge site with very specific requirements for questions. It's not just a standard Q&A site. So if someone just wants an answer in a specific language, that's actually not on-topic for Code Golf.
Furthermore, the existence of a site where a question would be on-topic is not sufficient to make the question off-topic for other sites. In other words, overlap in scope is OK. You can't cross-post (and if a question is cross-posted, we close and delete it from one of the sites), but if a question is in-scope for multiple sites, the asker has the right to choose where they want to ask it, based on where they think they'll get the best answers or whichever site has the prettiest color scheme.
The problem with a lot of code golf and optimization style questions is that they are too open-ended. There's no objective criteria offered by which to judge the best answer, too many different answers are possible (which leads to a popularity contest or a poll), and/or it would literally just be too broad.
But I don't think that particular question is afflicted. It's a specific language, a specific task, well-defined, with objective scoring criteria. I don't see any problems there.
If you don't find it to be useful, then downvoting is a reasonable option, as always.
It is extremely unfortunate (as it always is) that someone recommended to that poor new user that they go to Code Golf with their question. It is horribly off-topic there, and going to be closed (codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/215432). That just makes for a really bad experience: ask on one site, have your question closed and told to go ask it elsewhere, go through the trouble of asking it there, and then have it closed there, too!
This is why people really need to stop recommending that people take questions to other sites when they don't know the nuances of that other site's requirements/expectations, because you're just making the problem worse and maximizing frustration for everyone.
A custom close reason like "I’m voting to close this question because there is another site for this" is completely unacceptable. That's not a reason to close a question! For more thoughts, see stackoverflow.blog/2012/03/22/… (written by a fellow you may know better as Shog9)
 
Your claim that this post is not afflicted by too many different answers being possible seems suspect. I could think of a few different answers myself, and that's not normal for me, when answering.
Yes, I think it's not a reason to close. Is a suggestion in a comment phrased like this "try out site X but make sure to read FAQ/help/etc first" ok?
 
5:17 AM
@CodyGray no you didn't I made it up :D archeologists?!
 
@cigien More than one answer is OK. Some people seem to forget that. The idea, since literally the very beginning of Stack Overflow, is that good Q&A has (can have) multiple answers, not just a single one. In fact, one of the key metrics for graduation of SE sites is that questions asked there have received multiple answers. Multiple answers are also possible for any non-trivial programming problem; that doesn't make the question suspect. The voting system solves this problem.
@cigien Generally not. People don't take the advice in the second half, because they assume the person who is recommending it is knowledgeable about what they're recommending. Also, people don't read that far, and people are lazy. Besides... what is the point? If the question is not off-topic where it is asked, you don't need to recommend any other sites or send them away.
 
@CodyGray If a question is off-topic I'll often leave a comment like that, in particular for code-review-ish questions. I see your point about issues with the caveat being ignored. Is there a better alternative to just saying nothing?
 
@cigien Is there a better alternative to receiving a year-end salary bonus?
You can trust me, or you can ask a Code Review moderator/site regular, but literally 99% of comments recommending that someone consider asking their SO question on Code Review are horribly wrong and misguided, and they end very badly for all parties.
The Code Review folks actually run a bot that monitors all newly-posted comments on SO for the appearance of phrases like "Code Review" and/or a link to their site. It dumps them into their main chat room, so that they can go reply to those comments with a "No, this won't be on-topic for Code Review. Please don't recommend Code Review unless you know what you're talking about."
Apparently, almost no Stack Overflow members really understand the scope of Code Review, so their recommendations are... just plain wrong. For example, Code Review requires that the code is fully working.
And, what frustrates me equally is, most of the time, the question they're commenting on isn't even off-topic for Stack Overflow. They just think it is because it sounds like it might be on-topic for Code Review.
So, all of that to say, you don't need an alternative to saying nothing. If the question is off-topic for SO, then it is, and you can just vote to close and move on. It is not our obligation or goal to recommend some other place for the person to go, any more than it is the responsibility of the sommelier to recommend a car dealership.
 
5:32 AM
I used to recommend OPs to post on code-review until a regular from there popped in and gave me a earful. So I read up on their template a bit, and also from then, I've always added the "read the help" disclaimer.
However, I have pointed OPs to code-review in cases where it's almost on-topic there, and would be with some editing. My idea is it's close enough to being on-topic there that with some help from regulars, it'll all be good. I have no idea what the regulars there would think of this though, and I rarely follow up to see what happens to a post that ends up there.
Though, I haven't had a complaint since I started adding the caveat, so I've been assuming that's ok.
 
They let it slide as long as you include the caveat.
But...it's not ideal.
You should know by now that almost no one reads the help.
 
I'm an optimist. Or a slow learner.
Yeah, I won't stress out about not being able to leave a comment, I just like being able to do that when I VTC.
 
The whole point of a close vote is that it obviates the need to leave a comment. :-)
Resist the urge to leave a comment accompanying your close vote unless you are giving some very specific advice for the asker about how they could edit their question to make it eligible for re-opening.
 
@CodyGray I don't disagree with any of this. And it seems to apply to this post. Yet, something about letting this post stay open seems ... off. Note that a lot of these feelings are based on my experience here. For example, I'd be willing to bet that a cv-pls request for this post wouldn't even take 30 secs to get acted upon.
 
@cigien "Yet, something about letting that post stay open seems ... off." Yeah, that's the thing. I lurk in here a while, and I get the feeling that, too often, people are voting to close based on gut feelings and instincts, rather than actual reasons that are backed up by the site's Help Center. This makes me uncomfortable.
Closure is really not supposed to be a "I don't like this" call. We have a button for that. It looks like a downward-facing triangle. You are encouraged to punch it whenever you think to yourself, "Ehh...I don't like this". But a bad feeling is not a reason to close a question.
 
5:52 AM
@CodyGray Yeah, agreed. But very recently I started making an exception when the OP has 1 rep, and no tour badge, and no one else has left the [tour] and How to Ask links. I have a few canned generic comments that correspond to the specific close reason. The idea was that the OP gets a more message from a human, rather than the system silently closing the post.
Although given the length of the message, and the fact that I usually post it in less than a minute probably undercuts the human part of it. I'm certainly not sold on the idea.
 
You are aware that new users already get these links shoved into their faces, right? Their not having reviewed them isn't attributable to a lack of knowledge of their existence.
As such, comments that contain links to them aren't likely to be very helpful or have any real impact. They just make you feel better.
Canned comments accompanying closure are, in my opinion, somewhere between useless and harmful.
 
o/ morning
 
Oh, wow. No I had no idea they already see all of that. Those messages aren't any good then :( They do make me feel good though, you're right about that. All right, I'll cut out the canned messages, and stick to some good wine for that.
 
The thing is, new users to this site are folks on a mission. They have a problem, and they want to get an answer. They'll click through any obstacle you put in front of them, just to get to a page where there's a textbox that allows them to type in their question.
 
Speaking of new users... I didn't notice a substantial increase in poor questions this September, at least not as much as other years
 
5:59 AM
I'll take your word for it. It sounds right, but my experience was different, I remember agonizing for hours before posting my first question, and that was after I had the question written up.
 
@cigien You are weird. It's OK. I am also weird. But don't forget that you are weird.
This weirdness is part of why you had a positive experience.
(Until you met me, and I started telling you that everything you think is wrong.)
@Nick Perhaps that's because COVID-19 caused a substantial increase in poor questions all year long? Or am I just being too cynical?
 
I didnt notice that, I just noticed no increase the last couple months, maybe cause I wasn't so active the beginning of the year
 
@CodyGray Please, I enjoy being told I'm wrong. It forces me to reevaluate my reasons, and whatnot. In fact, I worry that people don't tell me I'm wrong enough. One of the downsides to being articulate is that people sometimes think that I'm right. Even if I'm full of cr*p.
 
@cigien This, I can completely relate to.
Smart people tend to think, "oh yeah, obviously this guy knows what he's talking about, I better shut up". Not-so-smart people tend to be unphased. This is precisely the opposite of what I wish would happen.
 
Lmao, I can confirm, Cody can totally relate :p
 
One of the first Loops I've read in a while, really happy to see them coming to the community for review as well as the mods instead of just the mods, especially when there's such a large pool of users who have used the review system
 
6:35 AM
Yeah, asking just the mods would have been silly. Mods don't even use the review queues.
We have our own special queues, filled with special presents from users like you!
 
I'd love to see some of the trash that ends up in that queue because of some upset users getting their question closed :p
 
I'd love not to see it. I wonder if there's a way we could make both of our dreams come true. :-)
But yeah, comment flags are a mess sometimes.
 
I Cody Gray relinquish my moderatorship over to Nick
 
Mod for a day?
That'd be a fun little event.
 
That'd be fun
 
6:40 AM
Hmm. If we did that, we might never have anyone stand for election again.
Nah, I guess not. One day isn't long enough for a new mod to start getting death threats.
 
It'd be like one of those "$1,000,000 but you only have 2 hours to spend it" games, so much to do and so little time to do it
 
The calls for beheadings generally don't start to come in until after the first week.
Yeah, I still haven't found time to do everything I want to do.
 
I have time for what I want right now... come Monday night however, I don't know if I'll have time for anything
 
@Nick What happens Monday night?
 
New World of Warcraft expansion releases 00:00 UTC on Tuesday (23:00 GMT)
 
6:45 AM
Hah. Lame.
What about the new World of Programming Questions expansion that releases every second?
 
The game has become saturated with noobs because of the constant content releases
 
...yes :-)
 
Until then my time is evenly split between work, Stack, sleep and time with a friend
 
Hmm. 24/4 = 6. You spend 6 hours per day doing each of those things?
 
give or take an hour
 
6:56 AM
Probably not enough sleep. Or work.
Also, must be a really good friend. Not sure I could stand anyone for 6 hours per day every day.
 
They are indeed ^^"
 
You should get your friend hooked on Stack Overflow. Then, in the vernacular that's popular with folks these days, you can "kill two birds with one stone".
 
They already are :p
 
Haha. Nice.
 
7:14 AM
@AlonEitan I can't figure out what's going there, "error" is a picture of some logo, nobody in their right mind would expect that code to do anything useful...
 
@Nick Exactly, that's why it's unclear rather than a typo or anything else
Very strange
 
@JeanneDark :p read my message again
 
7:26 AM
Y'all are so much nicer than me. I'd have judged that as just straight-up trolling.
 
Nah, proof of that is that the question hasn't simply been deleted :p just don't have the power to do that
 
7:40 AM
Would you consider this to be an answer? Looks like "me too" but the question asks "Is there a way...?" and they write "But I'm afraid it can't be achieved." which could be interpreted as answering it, in some way.
 
I'd say yes it's an answer
 
Thanks
 
8:32 AM
off-topic: I'm looking for information about when the markdown engine was replaced and weirdly finding nothing on meta ... am I looking in the wrong place, or do I remember incorrectly that it happened last summer?
should I submit a separate bug report on SO meta for a rendering bug, or add it as an "answer" to that SE meta post?
 
Too slow SD
@tripleee I don't see any note saying to post new bug reports as new questions so... whichever you prefer ? :)
 
@Nick Maybe a mod-flag should be appropriate for this user? It's the 3rd question they vandalised
 
@Nick I guess so, thanks
I'll add a comment with a link to my new question actually
 
@AlonEitan I would expect there to already be an automatic mod flag, they've gone through deleting a few of their questions and vandalized 3 in short order
(In fact, now deleted all the questions that they're actually able to)
 
Oh OK, didn't know there's an automatic mod-flag
 
8:41 AM
Well, they're capped to 5 vandalized questions a day, at least...
but...yeah, a vandalism/deletion spree might warrant mod attention. Not sure if that's autoflagged.
 
 
Thanks! Very useful information
 
9:32 AM
 
Pictures of code...
 
That but also the comments and answers seem to be guessing at the issue
 
You're still a newcomer when you've been on SO for 5 years?
 
@JeanneDark Yep, and don't you dare downvote them /s
 
You should not downvote me either, because I am new here
 
9:37 AM
I don't want to get banned for 2 months :(
 
If you get banned who's gunna downvote all the things :o
 
You'll get banned forever if you downvote me
It's a good thing that you can't downvote users and also that moderators can't see who votes on what posts
 
I'd say not programming related
 
Need second thought before cast CV. :D
 
10:06 AM
Oh wait, that is an answer, not a question - I already rejected
 
Even so, it would make it no more useful than the 3 year old existing answer, and added noise to reach the character limit
 
OK tnx
 
If a user can't come up with enough useful changes to make an edit legitimately they should leave a comment for OP or a 2k+ user to make the edit for them
 
Why is this post getting deleted? It's different from all the others. Relevant review
 
One day I'll make the effort to get 10k... Until then, I cannot be of help :p
 
10:14 AM
@JeanneDark I don't understand. Why would you get banned for two months?
 
@Scratte Referring to a now deleted comment saying that users downvoting "newcomers" should be banned.
 
@JeanneDark Users saying that user downvoting newcomers should be banned should be banned warned that is not how things work here.
Good thing that comment is deleted.
 
@Nick Screen shot of the now deleted Answer
 
if the content is bad it does not matter if it is newcommer, I would downvote even comments
 
Really it's no different to two of the answers already there, padding and margin are pretty similar. Also, can you confirm OP didn't delete it themselves after getting the comment? :p
 
10:19 AM
@JeanneDark Oh. Don't worry. You're my favorite "evil" user. :)
 
@Ruli Where is down vote comment option. is it's A/B testing.
 
@Scratte Thank you :) Btw., I was not involved in that question
 
@Nick Really? I thought they all used margin-bottom. Not padding-bottom, like this one did.
 
@Shree I wish
 
ohhh , ok thanks.
 
10:24 AM
@Scratte Either way, it falls under the "This isn't helpful at all" category, I see no reason not to delete it
 
@Nick Having fiddled with CSS I do not think they are the same at all. One redundant margin-bottom could go, but not the padding one.
 
I didn't say they were the same? I said they're "pretty similar"
 
Yeah.. like int and long are similar, only one will get you the right big number, the other will get you a wrong negative one.
 
If you can give a valid argument not to delete it, by all means explain, it's a) wrong, b) unhelpful, c) offers no explanation
 
I tend to get it go.. like my list of closed Questions that probably shouldn't be. I'd prefer to let the votes decide if it's wrong or unhelpful.
Can some 10K'er see if the Answer on this Question has the same author as the Question?
 
10:33 AM
Is this one POB? Anyone knowledgeable in gRPC?
 
@E_net4ishere It sounds like it? conventions often are opinion, I dunno gRPC though
 
I mean, it sure sounds to me like gRPC does not have a standard port like in other protocols, but I could be wrong.
 
It also sounds like it's not programming /shrug
 
10:47 AM
@Ruli FAQ on flagging requests
 
@Ruli You can't close vote an answer ^
@JeanneDark I'd've gone spam, but nuked too fast
 
@Ruli Does selenium run on java?
 
It can, yes
And Selenium Server is written in java
 
@Nick Would that use reflection? That only works on java 9? :)
 
Ha, no idea, I don't know java
 
10:52 AM
So perhaps this Answer is not wrong.
 
@Scratte I noticed you're close to 2000 rep! Only 2 points missing
 
@JeanneDark I was at 2003.. I'm back from the horrors of the Low Quality Posts queue :D
That long list of Answer to downvote is pretty useful for this sort of thing ;)
 
There's an endless supply
 
If only I could turn privileges off, this would be such a problem for me. I just don't want to be taken to a review when I open a link to a Low Quality Posts review. I want to see what's going on with it.
 
@JeanneDark yes should be del
@Scratte still cant see the connection between ops question and this answer :/
 
10:59 AM
@Ruli OP is using selenium, if selenium runs on java then updating java might fix it, it's a loose connection, but as none of us really know about selenium, it's the only possible explanation we've come up with, don't take it as gospel, you can still act how you like on it
 
@Nick In this case it would be downgrading, since Java got stricter on what code can use reflection. cc @Ruli
 
Anyone knows what happen when you have 51 rep, post a 50 bounty on your question, then the question is downvoted? Where they take the missing rep for the bounty? See last SD report
 
Gotta love the people that comment a complaint about a downvote after their question was edited to remove the same complaint.
 
@Steve As soon as the user posts the bounty the user goes to 1 rep, they'll lose no rep when downvoted
They were at 100 rep, they dropped to 50 (give or take)
 
I see, the user has already lost the reps required
 
11:03 AM
Yep
@Scratte Right, yes, you got my point though
 
@Nick yes that might be true, but still answer is mentioning bat file and a warning that seem to be not relevant to the question, if nothing else this answer is very confusing
 
That I'll agree with, whether or not it's NAA... I'm less sure
 
also when there was discussion about plagiarism, what to do about answer like this which actually only use info from accepted answer and the rest of code is from question, comes more as a comment to accepted answer to me (while the question itself is most likely not helpful to others anyways, as it was only a simple mistake)
 
11:19 AM
@Ruli Leave a comment/downvote if you like, it's not NAA however and expands on the actual answer by providing it in context, if you really want to try you could mod-flag with an explanation as to what it is, but no promises
 
@Nick ok, will leave this without flag
 
11:39 AM
Hi, is it possible to undo a triage review? I missclicked this question stackoverflow.com/review/triage/27663828
 
@manuel_b No. What button did you meant to click?
 
I wanted to click "Needs author edit "
but I clicked "Needs community edit" by mistake
 
You can flag it outside the queue, but it won't change your review decision
 
You can't undo it, but you can go to the post and perform any action that you intended to (using the flag button), in future, you'll just need to slow down so you don't make the same mistake
 
@manuel_b OK. Find the post, flag is as you would have done with that click. Then go and explain that you misclicked but have now flagged it in the Bad Stack Overflow Reviews room. Saying "Sorry, but I've tried to fix my mistake" goes a long way :)
 
11:43 AM
thanks guys!
 
NAA? stackoverflow.com/a/1258777/2943403 Is the question Too Broad?
 
@manuel_b Removing that button makes it easier to review that queue.. I've merged "Flag" and "Needs author edit" into the same button as well, since they're the same.. It's a user script, so if you're using those, I can share it.
 
I failed audit like this yesterday, clicked downvote instead of upvote as intended, doubt anyone will trust me it was not intention :D
 
@mickmackusa Looks like link-only to me, so I'd say yes
 
@Ruli I once clicked "Looks OK" on a spam post. I was going to click "Unsalvageable" but my cursor strayed.. :)
 
11:52 AM
s...tufff happens :) I have 2 failed now, the other by not checking outside review and trying to comment, pretty annoying, its like you can't comment on high quality posts
 
Don't comment on posts that are OK during a review. Ever. If you comment, the system assumes you're asking for clarification on a post that's not OK. And it knows what you did with the post until you're done.
Note that even if you comment or flag or vote on a separate tab, it will know about it :)
 
I am smarter now, I rather open all the posts in separate tab and simply pass it to not waste time if it is audit, mostly it is clear right after it is load, such as vlq and spam, but sometimes it is tricky :)
 
12:18 PM
@Ruli Oh. I'd rather just do the audits. I guess we can separate the reviews between us :)
 
12:56 PM
Morning
 
1:18 PM
@CodyGray another argument to allow the hammer to apply to other close reasons.
 
2:45 PM
@CodyGray that's already a thing?
When they rolled out the new close vote banners and finished the first round of adjustments based on feedback
Unless by 'recently' you mean like a year ago?
 
I assume he means even within revision history and timeline
where it's still visible even to anon users
 
3:02 PM
@Nick oh. eh, I dunno about that...
@Braiam I think that example is quite contrived and completely misrepresentative of the kind of multi-dupe closures being discussed.
A more accurate example would be: "How can I grow and sell apples?" [Post closed as a duplicate of 1) "How can I grow apples?" and 2) "How can I sell apples?"].
 
@TylerH What you are referring about? Cody example doesn't include " and".
 
I see it more as a "How do I sort a 5 elements of type Y based on Y.x?". Closed as duplicate of "How do I create a list?" & "How does bubblesort work?". Which is not constructive, when there an answer with "standardList.add()... list.sort(Y.x)".
The more complicated the question is, the worse the closure, because less and less people are going to be able to infer an answer from the duplicate targets.
 
3:31 PM
@Braiam That's my point
The argument I and others (including Shog when he announced the feature) gave is for 'and' situations
aka two separately answerable questions
 
@TylerH Again, why are you including me in the discussion? Cody was the one that put the example. I don't know why you are arguing with me.
 
@Braiam I'm not arguing with you, just replying to the latest message in the thread
 
Well, I responded to that message 8 hours later, I don't think it would be read by @CodyGray if you don't ping it with a sharp stick, nor would anyone involved in it.
 
0
Q: Did this burnination request get [block]ed?

EJoshuaS - Reinstate MonicaThe block tag has the following usage description: DO NOT USE This tag is scheduled for removal because it can refer to many different things depending on the use of other tags with it. I also see a burninate request from 2014. It sounds like that tag was supposed to have been burninated, but n...

 
3:47 PM
What do we do about an answer that isn't an answer, but says that the other answers are wrong? They state that they can't comment yet.
 
@janw It's NAA in my book.
 
@janw It's a comment :D
 
Yeah - mod flag or NAA?
 
@janw I quite like the answer. Especially since one of the answers that is claimed to be wrong is accepted by the OP, I think it does address the question in some regard. The links need to be changed to point to the answers, instead of the users' profiles though.
 
Although I didn't verify its correctness, it is probably worth keeping. But it is also quite long, so one-click conversion into a comment probably won't work
 
3:54 PM
The part bothering me is "has a repeated node u, so it's not a path."... it might not be a path in the graph theory sense of the word, but it fits what was asked for
 
@NathanOliver Do you mean literally? I feel like a NAA flag would get declined.
 
I guess the question is unclear in this direction, whether visiting a node twice is permitted
 
@cigien Yes, literally. It should have been a comment. Not having enough rep does not allow one to us the answer box in place of a comment.
 
^ I agree with that, and "disproving" other answers does not itself qualify as an answer
 
I agree with @NathanOliver, and will risk a NAA flag.
 
4:02 PM
If the answer had just made the claim, I agree. But the counter-examples illustrating why the other answers are wrong is instructive. I feel like there's enough useful information there to count it as a partial answer.
 
If someone asks "How do I do this?" and you reply with "Don't do this" is that really an answer?
 
If it gets declined, I will make a meta post :)
 
@Nick I would say yes. Such a question is certainly better than "Can I...?" or "Is it possible to..?" because it allows for actually useful answers also (in case it's possible), not just yes/no.
But in this case the answer is not an answer to the question but a reply to the other answers
 
@JeanneDark But if it's saying "Don't do <content of answer A> or <content of answer B>"? that's already an answer in your response to the last question :p
 
@Nick That's a good question. Hypothetically, if that was the only answer, and it said something like "Here are 2 possible approaches ... Here's why both of them are wrong ...", would that be NAA?
 
4:07 PM
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@Nick Well, it's an answer of "how Not to" depending on case it might not fit SO's model.
 
@Nick No, you'd have to prove why the OP's task cannot be accomplished, not just disprove other answers. Else SO would become a discussion forum
 
So many pings :sob:
 
I think addressing that, and addressing the part that is a response to other answers, are somewhat orthogonal. This is a nice case where they're linked. I hope the NAA flag gets declined, if only because it would make an interesting meta post ;)
 
@JeanneDark yes, there are good answers stating:"can't be done like that".
 
4:10 PM
@bad_coder And I'd agree if the question said "Could I do x? how about y?" and it said, no and no
 
@bad_coder Else it would be strange because we allow "Can I...?" and "Is it possible to...?" question that you could simply answer with yes/no. Why should we disallow that in case of "How do I...?" question?
 
@cigien :D I think the case is interesting enough to write a post even if it is marked helpful. I will ask a question
 
@Nick unfortunately I think there may have been confusion on this, the two "this's" were meant to be independant things, not refering to the same thing. As in: "Can I eat oranges" and an answer saying "Don't eat cyanide"
 
@janw Sweet :) I would wait till the flag is handled though. Whether it's helpful or declined, that's useful information to share in the post.
 
@JeanneDark well, an answer shouldn't have the sole purpose of antagonizing other answers (admittedly, it would be a rare case of every other answer being wrong). But in that case the answer should contribute toward a solution, not just a flat out refutation.
@Nick lol replying to yourself old chap :D
 
4:14 PM
@bad_coder As I wrote above in the case we discuss I don't see how that answer addresses the question so I agree it's NAA.
 
@Nick It seems we have a clash in this edit review. Don't the last five words qualify as usage guidance? Or was I feeling uncharacteristically lenient?
 
I don't think so, imagine if python3.7's tag guidance just said "Use with [python]"
 
Meh. The combination of description plus an attempt at usage guidelines looks valid, IMHO. But we are allowed to differ, of course.
 
Maybe if it said "Used for questions which refer to extended Backus–Naur form syntactic exceptions. Also tag with [ebnf]" I'd agree but....
 
Maybe I'm due a review vacation? xD
 
4:24 PM
Maybe I am /shrug, not the end of the world disagreeing, it's not an outlandish suggested edit either way
 
@Nick btw (not meaning to be chatty) I've thought many times that [Python3.x] excerpts could simply be: "Use with stuff in this list: "What’s New In Python 3.7""
 
No markdown in excerpts, so links would be ugly
 
hmm user posting 5 answer promoting there medium blog post... just nuke'em as spam or be gentle and flag all NAA?
 
Just promoting or do they answer the question as well?
 
They are more or less "relevant" to question..
 
4:36 PM
That's a very polite way of implying they're just spam :p
 
hence they wrote the medium post, they are proud of it, so I guess they post and answer with link on all questions that are related...
 
@PetterFriberg Maybe leave the "spam warning" comment on one or two and see if they respond. Also may be worth logging the user in Charcoal HQ.
 
I went for custom flag... I feel to gentle to day to nuke it all... let mods be the executioner..
@AdrianMole no really need they wont be able to post an more answer in a few minutes...
@AdrianMole They actually had an answer that was fine... so I guess my custom flag will guide mods to take right action and guide user to avoid these answers.
 
@tink Hmm, perhaps you want to trash that request now?
 

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