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12:00 AM
@Scratte But, if there's no [.?!], then everything is after the last one. :; Seriously, though, based on the answer and comments, people are making different assumptions about what should be done in that case.
 
@Makyen I see some "attempts" of answering in comments. Only one asked a clarifying question, and that was you :)
 
@Scratte Yes. Everyone just went with their assumption.
 
But none is not the last one. It's like, "You'll get dessert when you've eaten the last pea". "But there are no peas". "That's right, no dessert."
 
{Sweet biscuits for afters}
 
@AdrianMole Mine was a bit different. I started out with a review suspension on my first day. Then I though I just needed to learn the rules, so I did that. Then I failed an audit, and I learned a little more.. and then I learned that one has to apply a rule that's not actually in consensus.. and that's when I lost my drive, I guess.
@Makyen I suppose I read it the way the answerer did, so to me it just makes perfect sense. And since they accepted the answer, I'm assuming it was what they needed.
 
12:09 AM
Is this Too Broad?
 
@Scratte I understand (I think). You have to (first) figure how the AI (or AS - artificial stupidity) works, before you can move into the "suspended by a mod" league (which should be at least a silver badge, IMHO).
 
@Scratte I understand that. With regular expressions it's really important to make as few assumptions as possible. It's also commonly as important, or even more important, to consider what cases you should reject rather than just considering which cases one should accept.
 
@AdrianMole yes to those. But I was thinking about "perception", the perception you develop of what is on-topic or off-topic as a function of burnout and tiredness. Because that seems to be a criteria that's intangible, hard to describe, but I think it's present in many reviewers decisions.
 
@AdrianMole I have two of those.. none by audit.
 
But you appealed, no?
 
12:14 AM
@Makyen Yes, I agree. But I also see that the first comment did the opposite. And no one asked for clarifications. Which.. if one thinks it needs it, one should ask for, no? But instead it got closed as "gimme the codez".. so I'm suspecting you're the first one to notice a lack a clarity.
 
@bad_coder Yep - that too. It's easier than you may think to inadvertently slip into "robo-reviewer" mode; especially if you're a bit tired.
 
The next comment takes in linebreaks as well.. fair enough.
 
... I have a very strictly self-imposed rule that I do no more than 20 review if I've drunk more than 7 bottles of wine (or 12 litres of beer). xD
 
@AdrianMole not just robot-reviewer, but not caring enough to, at least, leave as much as a "canned comment". I've closed a lot of Q's where I was the 3rd reviewer and the others hadn't even bothered to make any interaction or at least say "Welcome to SO". (From what I understand now, the 1st CV takes the post out of Triage and FP, meaning the usual guys taking care of that stuff don't even get to say anything.)
 
Comments in review are a matter of choice. I seldom offer them in the CV queue.
 
12:19 AM
@AdrianMole I think that's a mistake. The least is giving some guidance and explanation (admittedly, some post deserve as much and a few don't...)
 
Seldom is not never - if there's a reason for my vote that is not obvious, I'll comment.
 
@AdrianMole Only the last one.
@bad_coder No. A close vote in the triage queue doesn't take it out of the queue. It still needs to finish review.
 
^^ ... but, after a while, one gets tired of "code as image" or "not in English" ... so I just add my "Needs details or clarity" vote. Harsh, maybe, but we have a lot of posts to deal with.
 
@AdrianMole As a matter of conscience, I try to at least get the canned comment right (probably the only thing I can do besides casting the vote.)
 
@AdrianMole I've never done that. I posted my comment every time.. And kept an eye out for edits.
 
12:23 AM
An interesting point just raised. What happens if, in First Posts, I downvote. Does that send it into Triage? The "Congratulations!" message in audits (known bad) tells me that downvoting is one of the correct options. But, if that ends the review process, I'm not sure that I'm entirely happy with it.
 
@Scratte anyway, I've logged into SO 361 days straight. So I'll be taking a vacation soon.
 
You log out?
7
 
@AdrianMole lol :) the system logged me out once...
 
^ Starred? Whaaaaa?
Oooh - it's tomorrow, already! :)
 
@Makyen You're my regex hero :) But.. your solution consumes line breaks, so that's another clarifying question for the Question author.
 
12:28 AM
I've heard rumours (sshhh) that the only string that the C++STL regex implementation won't find begins with "M" ends with "n" and has the letters "aeky" in between. Still, let's not gossip, eh?
 
My delete votes go so quickly :(
 
^ +1
 
@AdrianMole :)
 
Delete votes should be refunded when a moderator 'confirms' them.
 
I never seem to run out :(
 
12:32 AM
... that's coz you spend too much time on Meta asking for other folks' votes.
 
@bad_coder That's nothing... I log in to SO 367 days a year.
 
... just curious, roughly how long was it for you, between 10k (first 5 deletes) and 35k (maxed out at 30)?
 
@Scratte Thanks. Yes, that is another assumption that's made. You should ask the OP if it's something which they care about.
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica You log in three times on your birthday? :)
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica That's actually possible, if you travel between (e.g.) Guam and Hawaii a lot.
I took a GUM-HNL flight, once, and arrived before I left.
 
12:40 AM
@AdrianMole You need to be on UTC ;) Then you're done travelling back in time.
 
@AdrianMole Were you asking me?
 
Being on UTC in either Guam or Honolulu would not be helpful, I think.#
 
Being on UTC is always helpful. You still log in at Stack, no? :)
 
@cigien Only if you happen to know. I can analyse your profile, if I was really that concerned.
 
@AdrianMole 4 months I think, maybe a little more.
 
12:42 AM
OK - cool! You're one of those "quick risers" ... and well-deserved, IMHO.
 
Actually, more like 5 months it seems. The graph is not very clear. How do I look that up?
 
@cigien Go to your network profile. It has a much better graph.
 
... I haven't actually rummaged through your posts but, of those that I've seen (organically) I can think of none that spring to mind as anything other than good.
... well, that was that one that ended up bringing you here. ;-)
 
@Scratte Hey, thanks, that's really cool. I didn't know about that. 4 and a half months give or take a few days.
 
Heh.. when I created my account Adrian was at 8K :D It's impressive the difference in results :)
 
12:46 AM
... ^ one-day precision!
 
@AdrianMole Hey, that post wasn't bad :( I just didn't know I wasn't supposed to answer duplicates.
I have a couple of bad posts though, I'll see if I can find them.
 
It wasn't a bad post, in itself. But it was badly posted. No harm. Peace. Namasti.
 
Indeed. And it's 2020, none of my friends my age say Namaste ;)
 
The network profile rep chart is quite cool - you can see exactly when I go on holiday each year and the fact that I couldn't this year :(
 
Have you hung about in SOBotics? Big "Shree" there teaches me the occasional Hindi/Nepali phrase ... though I get the spelling wrong, most often.
 
12:51 AM
No, I haven't ever lurked there. Maybe I'll check it out. There are some cool things going on there for sure.
 
Really, you're new. There is so much cool stuff to discover on the SE network. I'm still finding thing that surprise/shock me.
... no offence intended, BTW.
 
None taken :) How long have you been around?
 
Active for 15 months. Member for ~2 years. Lurker forever.
 
Oh, basically like me, except for the lurking. And that's where the difference lies. There are just so many things I didn't know before April. The existence of Meta, review queues, etc. My interaction was solely with SO, and only because I could always find the answer to what I was looking for there. One stop shopping for programming problems as far as I was concerned.
 
... agree 100%. And then you bite the bait, and you're hooked! There's no known cure.
 
12:58 AM
Good, I don't need one for now. That's probably the denial phase ;)
 
Heh
My name is Tink, and I'm a stackoverflow user....
 
Thing is, I'm not really a fan of online communities. I was moderately active on another one (an 'expert' site, rather than chatty - "FlyerTalk" if you're interested) but I got a bit bored with that when it went commercial. Then, I hit this place! Now, I'm in danger of losing my job, my wife, my apartment, my sanity ... just kidding, I think.
 
LOL
Should really be called Nerds'r'Us or somesuch ...
 
@tink An American-Bavarian would probably call you "Ding" - so you're safe.
 
GRIN
Speaking of which ... @Vickel never responded to my "clue" vs "glue" ... too curious where he's actually from ;D
 
1:05 AM
He's fae Portugal - he said so.
 
In that case: where he learnt German ;D
 
@AdrianMole I can't think of another online community I would be a part of. I do have a fb account, that I open once every few months. And that sounds like a fair trade at least ;)
 
At school? In Germany? In WWI? Does it matter?
 
@AdrianMole good thing I only had half of those to start with!
 
@AdrianMole not "matter" in a sense of import; but it might explain why he'd have the make that statement ...
 
1:08 AM
@RyanM And you gained the rest by using Stack Overflow?
 
Facebook, to me, is simply a means of communicating with my "wife" - without it, we wouldn't be together, even. So, though I hate it with a passion, I keep using it. especially in these weird lockdown times.
 
@Scratte that seems...unlikely, for a few reasons :-p
 
There was an online language learning community I quite enjoyed partaking in; but the owners decided to make it more modern, better suited for mobile devices and rendered it useless. I haven't just resigned yet, but will do so shortly.
 
The thing about online communities - or, those that I've dabbled with - is that they need to be moderated. Here on SO (and throughout the SE network), that's done well. (Lick boots of mods, etc., etc.). Sites like Reddit and others have far less moderation, and quickly become pointless "free for all" chatty flattery platforms. Viva Los Moderatores!
 
@AdrianMole I don't mind that. The only think I don't like about reddit is that I can't figure out how to navigate the site.
 
1:18 AM
@AdrianMole - true that. The system on that language platform was notoriously inefficient; a malicious user with a couple of fake accounts could make others disappear (they were auto-banned and all their content became invisible) by three "reports"; and it would take days after having contacted the website owner to be reinstated. Only to fall victim to the same person again within minutes ...
 
Yep. For all its so-called faults and 'unfriendliness', Stack Exchange manages (somehow) to find the balance that keeps it both popular (important for the investors) and useful (important for the community). That balance was severely challenged around the time I became active (Aug/Sep 2019) but, hopefully, we've all (staff and Comminity) have now moved on from that aberration, and we look only to our continued and future success.
 
... it's not a trivial task to maintain that balance. I salute all those who have striven to maintain that balance. If (and I emphasize if) there have been mistakes made, then let's learn and move on from them. There is nothing to be gained from any more "witch hunts." As the great Nelson Mandela said: Let bygones be bygones!
 
@tink I would say a valid LS question that most likely has a duplicate...
 
Hmmm ... I don't see piping the output of ls into a single command as a programming problem, your mileage may vary =} .... feel free to hunt down a dupe and close vote based on that.
 
1:37 AM
@TylerH Yes, Tyler. My sense of time is apparently quite different from yours.
 
@tink mmmm, 80 reviews already and I still have to make a decision later about posts on tags where I'm proficient...I'll pass this one.
 
@bad_coder - fair enough. 2 others have agreed w/ my assertion, so you're off the hook ;)
 
I can't work out if it's Friday Night or Saturday Morning. Does that matter?
 
Y'all talk too much. How did I ever manage to keep up with reading the transcript?
 
Don't do that! I mean - really: don't do that!
;-P
 
1:47 AM
@CodyGray I have no idea. I've been wondering how to keep up myself, even more so over the last couple of days. Fortunately, we do move the requests out, so that helps quite a bit. Even then, it's still a lot of text. There being a lot of traffic isn't bad, it's just a lot to read to try to keep up.
 
You know, when you have that last little 'dribble' in the bottle; you just know it's not gonna fit into the glass, but you carry on pouring anyway ...
 
@AdrianMole That's the part you're supposed to drink directly out of the bottle
 
Can I have a straw?
 
@Makyen Yeah, I actually used to read the transcript (to catch any pings) instead of my inbox, since it was easier/shorter. Now, it's looking like I might need to pay attention to my inbox...
@AdrianMole Use gravity. Straws aren't long enough to reach all the way to the bottom. Come on, why do I have to teach you this?
 
What's "gravity"? I remember a lecture I once attended, presented by a great physicist (he said so himself): If you don't know what it is, or don't understand it, then give it a name!
 
1:52 AM
Is this an Answer?
 
@Scratte Maybe?
 
@Scratte I don't know, maybe
Oh, I thought Adrian would be too busy trying to get that last little dribble out. :-(
 
@CodyGray One line at a time..
 
Looks like a question to me? :D
 
hehe
 
1:54 AM
In truth: it is actually an answer. It may well be the answer. It's just phrased very dismissively.
It needs editing.
 
What could be called "rhetorical."
 
Uh-huh ... the edit review queue is long, too ... I can only do so few at a time =D
 
meh - half-decent edit, there. I'll leave it alone.
 
Feel free to make it full-decent.
 
I'm still dealing with dribbles.
 
1:55 AM
Right thanks. I'll tell Natty not to worry about it then :)
 
There's a "should be an edit" response to Natty.
 
should be edited?
 
Yeah - it's a bit ambiguous, in Advanced Flagging.
 
@AdrianMole Yes, I used it when Cody edited.
 
Oh. Hmm, yeah, I think that's just window dressing to make you feel better. It doesn't get recorded any differently.
(I don't use Advanced Flagging.)
 
1:57 AM
You're just not advanced enough?
 
What about this Answer?
 
Looks like a rhetorical answer to me
 
I wouldn't flag that.
 
But uh. Looking at the date, and the fact that the answer was posted and accepted by the OP... I'm gonna just say that's not a useful answer to have around, edited into shape or not.
Yeah, not really NAA flaggable. Fortunately, those rules only constrain what flags y'all can expect to not have declined. They don't constrain what mods can/cannot delete. :-)
 
... but it's different for mods. I try to stay on the safe side of flags.
 
1:59 AM
You and I are totally jiving.
And I haven't even started my Friday night consumption!
 
I'm on Rioja. What's your poison?
 
Also... just looked down at the bottom-right corner of my PC to check the time, and the whole notification area of the taskbar is MIA. So that's weird.
 
MIA? Is that a time-zone? Or IAA for Miami?
 
@AdrianMole Don't say that out loud. You'll be marked a paranoid squirrel..
 
@AdrianMole Missing-in-Action. Also, a fantastic rapper. But not what I meant in this circumstance.
 
2:01 AM
How does one answer this? I could only think of a lengthy comment ...
 
General H/W or S/W?
 
Comment is fine, @tink. It's not a programming question.
 
@CodyGray love paper planes
 
Borders is my favorite. But yeah, Paper Planes was actually popular and well-known. :-)
 
Am I missing something, or is this link-only?
 
2:04 AM
No, that's link-only.
 
Right.. it was reviewed twice. No one seemed to have raised a flag on it.
 
So's this
 
@CodyGray heh. That's one those things that still confuse me after years ... "broken python" (a programming language) is not on-topic, but using find with an and condition is ;)
 
Gi' us chance to raise some flag, man! You're as Bad as Bhargav!
 
@tink Meh, yeah. My thinking is, when your computer is b0rked, that's not a programming problem.
 
2:05 AM
@CodyGray =D
 
@AdrianMole I have been called worse.
 
Don't doubt it! But not by anyone in here.
 
Very likely so
 
Should I assume that first sentence makes this one fine?
 
Not by my standards. That first sentence isn't the solution to the problem, and it isn't even a very brief summary of the linked content.
 
2:07 AM
Again. I would not raise NAA on that.
 
But it's vaguely useful, so I clicked a different button this time.
 
@CodyGray You have different buttons? I though you only had one red one.
 
You're thinking of the "Ban Scratte" button. I do have a few others.
 
I though of the nuke post button. You have a special one just for me? :D
 
I've learned that NAA flags are (or can be) quite ticklish, if they get to the mods. Think of Robert Harvey's Meta post that @Scratte seemed to like so much. Part of me wanted to 'challenge' his answer there, but discretion was the better part of my valour.
 
2:10 AM
Robert Harvey isn't a mod anymore. Challenge away!
 
@AdrianMole The one today, where I agreed with Robert Harvey? Not Robert Harvey agreeing with me? :)
 
Also... Robert was always a real stickler for a restrictive interpretation of NAA flags.
 
I respect him for who he is, not what he may once have been!
 
You can plot the mods on a continuum for how we deal with NAA and especially VLQ flags.
Would be kind of a fun experiment.
 
one more. Am I correct in assuming it just need a little editing? That's it's just a rhetorical question?
 
2:12 AM
Yeah, that looks like an attempt to answer to me.
Absolutely no domain knowledge, though, so just going off of look-and-feel.
It could well be an attempt to ask a question of another answer.
 
I've sort of 'crossed swords' (in comments) with Robert once or twice; I think the balance of right/wrong is about equal, at the moment.
 
@AdrianMole Me too. I got away with slight snark..
 
heh
 
I tried snark once ... but it fell on stony ground.
 
To be clear, it was me doing the snark.
 
2:16 AM
I have not seen this side of you before!
 
Hmm.. I guess you're not the one that deletes my snarky comments then.
 
Obviously! Snark and Robert Harvey wouldn't mix. (</sarcasm> - even Cody would be out-gunned in a straight fight, IMO).
 
For snarky comments, I usually click the button on the opposite side of the delete button. It's shaped more like a triangle than an "x".
 
I see a question here, but late answers said it's fine.
That button is not on comments..
 
You really can't expect the outcome of a review queue task to be correct.
Sure it is. Comments have upvote arrows.
 
2:19 AM
@CodyGray Ahh.. I was thinking of something like ▼
 
You may have misread my sense of humor.
 
I remember the last time I made a comment that got deleted quite fast was the one where I started my comment with "This is really an answer, but I'm posting it as a comment.."
 
Robert was a mod for a long time, is not? (I can check, but I don't want to have to accept that there were moderators before Martijn).
 
Uh, Bill the Lizard was a moderator before Martijn.
 
Bah - Out, damn spot!
 
2:22 AM
Robert was in the first group of elected moderators, though. So there's that.
Prior to that, mods were appointed.
 
I almost cried when they deleted that post with Bill the Lizard's Answer on it.
Another link-only Answer? Though that might be a good comment.
 
No bother (of course) but Martijn just seems to be the mod, somehow. Maybe it's a "me" thing; maybe it's his rep. Dunno. He just seems to be the "model."
... and he doesn't "do chat!"
 
@AdrianMole I duck when Martijn's around.. well, unless I get into a fight in comments.. :D
@AdrianMole Not true. I've seem Martijn in here today.
 
It's funny when people go through great length to make a decent question (code samples and all that) and then forget to describe the actual problem ...
 
He was actually my first direct "mod interaction" (declined flag, on Meta); rene charged in and came to my rescue.
 
2:27 AM
@tink It's hard work to write a Question. Just ask them.
 
=D
 
@Scratte I did not get the memo on that.
 
@tink That's when a comment can help! Guide the user.
 
@AdrianMole I take it you flagged that last one I posted?
@CodyGray I think you did.. let me find it after I tuck Natty in.
 
Probably not - I wasn't paying attention.
 
2:29 AM
@AdrianMole He’s certainly one of the most highly visible. Especially because he also keeps up an insane pace of posting Python answers.
 
@AdrianMole like that?
 
@CodyGray He has my respect on many fronts. Even if we don't share a sense of humour.
... after all, he's Dutch.
 
Hmm.. I filled up the entire page on SOBotics :(
 
What's the time in NYC?
 
@CodyGray if it's the regulars you can guess what's happening...(reading isn't really necessary, but it might be interesting...)
 
2:35 AM
@CodyGray this one got deleted as it was part of the list in grand opinion delete post
 
Are we allowed to ping senior staff who choose to visit us?
.. I mean, just to say, "Hi?"
 
@AdrianMole: social ping, probably OK. Work ping, no.
@AdrianMole: no sense in de-motivating them from coming to the room
 
@AdrianMole I don't think it's a visit.. I think it's like when Cody is away and their avatar goes back and forth in the list as if they're active. It seems they're just idle.
 
@Scratte Arrgh. Yeah, I missed that. I have upvotes on those posts, and I don’t upvote lightly. I would not have been at all in favor of deleting that. This is why I’m hesitant to go through that list...
 
@CodyGray I even mentioned it especially in the comments. But there's no stopping the deleters, so I just cry a little.
 
2:38 AM
In "The Tavern," I hear that folks ping our CEO, yet survive.
 
@Scratte Part of that is because this room is still open in a tab because I mean to come back, and every time my browser crashes, it shows me as re-entering this room.
 
Yes. I also did not go through the list, as I would have been too upset by it.
 
@Scratte The difference between us is that I have the power to change that situation and lack the restraint not to use it. Which will put me on a collision path with people I otherwise respect.
 
@CodyGray Right, but I've seen it with other uses too, so I expect it just happens.
@CodyGray You could post a few more Answers on those meta posts :)
 
I don’t have the time or energy to argue about this stuff on Meta right now.
 
2:41 AM
@CodyGray Well.. I'm not getting there soon, but I plan to put un-delete votes on the lot if I get there.
 
@Scratte Cody can check-out any time he likes, but he can never leave!
 
@AdrianMole Well.. A few more of those mega delete posts and I think I can spend my time on something more useful than Stack.
 
@AdrianMole actually no, I don't know what that is :O
 
@user1271772 Add in a . in front of your link there, so it doesn't one-box :)
 
@Scratte I've said it before and I'll say it again: (1) What you do is up to you. (2) Don't get mad, get even!
 
2:45 AM
Cool I didn't know that this was one way to remove the one-box
 
Explicit markdown hyperlink formatting will prevent oneboxing too without looking ugly
 
It works better if you put the dot at the end (then it blends with the other dots)
 
@AdrianMole There's no getting even with something like that.
 
@CodyGray what does that mean?
 
Oops. ninja'd.
 
Yeah, just put the actual link text inside both elements, the brackets and parentheses.
 
@Scratte Fundamental disagreement! Maybe there is, maybe there ain't. But, if you don't throw your weight into the argument, then you have no say in its outcome.
 
@user1271772 But if you want to be able to find them easily, perhaps using the title is a better option ;)
 
Or, you know, write actual descriptive text inside the brackets.
 
@AdrianMole But it's a silly argument, because I have.. and the outcome was the same as if I hadn't.
 
2:50 AM
One can lose a battle but still win a war.
 
And.. actually trying and failing at something like that feels so much worse than not doing anything at all. Once hope is gone..
@CodyGray Nice link ;)
 
@Scratte You are better than that! Don't deny it, because it won't wash in here (where we know you). What happens on Meta.SO, and on SO, is (obviously) something you don't control. But you have a say! Use it!!
 
@AdrianMole How can I use it any different than already? What I'm saying is that what I did already didn't work.
 
@Scratte How did you make the image URL so easily? You took a screenshot and then dragged and dropped it somewhere that auto-generated the URL?
 
@Scratte If, at first, you don't succeed, then try, try, try again.
 
2:55 AM
@user1271772 Screen shot, then paste it into an Answer.. any Answer. Grab the link and paste it into a [with some text](link) :=) Don't forget to clear the answer. Don't use chat to do it. If you use chat, it'll post it as a one-box that you have to then edit.
 
@user1271772 Drop into chat text box. Or click “upload” button.
Only downside of that is it auto-posts, which one-boxes, which we don’t allow in this room, so you need to immediately edit the message after posting (within the grace period)
 
@Scratte Yes that's how I generate my URLs to post images in Chat, however it is super annoying and it would be easier if we could just drag and drop the image into the Chat box rather than into an answer
 
@Braiam I quote you: "banter drivel" <- I don't know where you find these things, but am I glad those words don't exist in my language.
 
@CodyGray Dropping an image into the chat box, only uploads it on Windows?
 
@user1271772 I use Windows Shortcut to start making the screenshot. And I always have a post open in a different window, so it's quite easy and takes about 5-10 seconds.
 
2:57 AM
I'm in Ubuntu
 
@user1271772 Maybe? Not sure. I thought it worked elsewhere, too, but I live 99% in windows these days.
 
@Scratte Are you on linux?
 
@user1271772 I do not think chat is going to get a lot of developer time though..
 
The upload link in chat works on all platforms though
 
@user1271772 No. Since I'm using a windows shortcut (key combination thing. Don't know the proper name in English), that would be an odd combination :)
 
2:59 AM
How much developer time does it take to write: "IF "image is dragged in", UPLOAD "image to igmur
 
@user1271772 About a week..
 
You say it takes 5-10 seconds. Isn't that quite long? Imgur image processing takes too long
 
@Scratte Windows key shortcut key combination :-)
No one has worked on chat since balpha left (he’s the one who built the whole thing)
 
You need to write up the ticket, find an account for ticket, get approval, develop (this is the small task), maybe test.. maybe not, put it on production, fix the bug, do the accounting and the meeting about what went wrong.
 
3:02 AM
@Scratte If nothing goes wrong, and there's no bug, then some of those steps get skipped :)
 
@Scratte I wouldn't agree with that entirely. Based on multiple comments you've made, I've gone through that specific post, and several related posts that cover the same ground in further detail. I've looked, and am still looking for content that I think needs preserving. Posts like stackoverflow.com/questions/2068816 and stackoverflow.com/questions/467899 for starters have most of it. There may be an argument for migrating some of the answers, but I'm not entirely convinced.
Regardless, I think there is more that you could do. For starters, you could actually post an answer on meta with a list of posts. If you only have this one, that's fine too. Ask for feedback from SMEs, in this case C++, on the posts you list, they don't like losing valuable content. If this one gets reverted, that could generate momentum for looking at the other posts. I'm not saying any of this will work, just thoughts on what you could try.
I notice you're also asking Cody to take a look, which is a reasonable thing to do. I must say that I'm glad they're refraining from doing a review until they feel they can choose not to take actions.
 
@Scratte Don’t be silly. This is SE. No testing. But, of course, you do have to first post on Meta to get community input, then post afterward on Meta and get more feedback, then deal with all the Meta bug reports because you skipped the testing
 
@user1271772 Depends how often something is released with no bugs. If it's not that often, there will be a party around it :)
 
@CodyGray So regular users can develop the SE platform as long as users approve of it on Meta?
 
@CodyGray Just love the vote of confidence!
 
3:05 AM
@cigien Scratte can’t even see deleted posts...
 
@CodyGray Yes. Two weeks for a one-liner :)
 
Unless he got a crapton of rep since I was away
 
@CodyGray Alas, only a millicrapton.
 
@user1271772 ? No. balpha was staff at the time
 
@CodyGray ok so balpha would do all that.
 
3:06 AM
@AdrianMole This isn’t my first rodeo
 
@cigien You keep saying that. I cannot even see them. So how do I in details explain how this is valuable, huh? Remember no such details explaining how they're not is ever required. That's a burden for saving stuff only.
 
@CodyGray Yes, but if they're convinced that the posts need preserving, as they seem to be, they could say that more publicly, for example in a meta answer. Essentially making the same arguments they are making here, and in comments on meta. Is that not a reasonable thing to do?
 
I thought what was being described, is the general procedure for someone to develop code.
 
@cigien Sure, it is. But you have to keep in mind that it feels like a Sisyphean effort.
Almost as bad as me trying to type out an explanation why on mobile, so I won’t tey
@user1271772 An SE employee
 
@Scratte Yes, I understand you can't see them. That does beg the question of why you're seemingly so absolutely confident that they're valuable. I asked before, but you haven't told me that yet..
 
3:09 AM
@cigien I didn't ask Cody to take a look. Cody implied not having seen the legend post get deleted, so I posted the link.
 
There may be more. But yeah, that covers it
 
@cigien Everyone that I did see had value. And.. you argued that the SQLite post has no value, so I'm assuming you used the same measure for the rest.
 
@CodyGray Absolutely. You have my sympathy.
 
@CodyGray It has been very tricky to keep my reputation down..
 
@Scratte Ok, I must have misunderstood that then, sorry about that.
 
3:12 AM
@AdrianMole pretty impressive ... 5 of the top 10 starred comments (5 of 9 if you exclude the pinned one)
 
@cigien I did make comments on meta. It didn't even make a dent. And the post by CodeCaster didn't make a dent either. It's a one time deal that always only goes one way. Having one post brought back is not a measure that it's an actual reversible thing, which they also explain. Why should I post something that's already said?
 
@cigien Well - sorry to be a 'spanner in the works' - but I tend to agree with @Scratte, on this one. It's far easier to get folks to delete stuff than it is to get them to undelete. Thus, there is an inherent, "if you don't have 10k rep, then your opinion doesn't matter" opinion expressed when listing such posts.
... I didn't (and haven't) get involved in that Meta post but, if push comes to shove, I'd happily pile in and vote to undelete many of those - because I can't see what harm they were doing to the site.
 
@AdrianMole That's great to hear. If you really want to show Scratte that you agree with them, then doing exactly that would be the best way. It's one thing for someone without privileges to say there's nothing they can do, but I'm afraid it's difficult to know where you stand if you have the power to cast votes, but choose not to. Consider this a gentle? push.
 
... as we have discussed here, earlier, deleting because you "don't like" isn't what moderating is about. But it's sticky wicket.
 
@cigien That was also explained by CodeCaster in their post. You can put a delete vote on anything without punity, but somehow you're held accountable for un-deleteing.
 
3:21 AM
@Scratte I'm still getting "a feel" for this, but you'd be amazed with the amount oh highly up voted posts on the close-queue...I haven't figured out how it goes, but from the looks if the crowd had a 50%-50% split opinion the post would get closed and reopened indefinitely...I guess you can only understand the logic behind deletion after getting to the 10k tools.
 
@Scratte Oh, I was not aware of this. Held accountable by whom?
 
@Scratte and I suppose it hasn't "historically" been a problem because there aren't that many users with 10k and SO wasn't so large.
 
@cigien I mentioned one of the posts in your original list in here; and I said then that I wasn't especially moved one way or the other. What I don't want to do is to take on the role of "site moderator" ... we have folks to do that, on our behalf. They're called "site moderators."
 
@bad_coder Personally I think it's like an execution. When in doubt, don't.. If uses disagree, then preserving is probably not the worst outcome.
 
@AdrianMole I'm confused. How is casting undelete votes on posts in a list posted on meta count as being a "site moderator"? How is it different than casting delete votes?
 
3:24 AM
@Scratte here you hit the nail on the head...Fact being, it's a complicated issue and SO have pronounced policy against mass deletion (with a somewhat widened community consensus -or assent- from what I gather).
 
@AdrianMole I think I may not be very good at this guidance thing ... =/
 
@cigien The community, meta.. you get a bit more pushback from re-opening a post that should be closed than if you close a post that should be open. The same with deletions. CodeCaster's Answer is very thorough Though they say it a much better and completely differently than I do.
 
@Scratte I suppose cigien was the latest catalyst in calling for deletion (I honestly haven't followed meta). IN ANY CASE, I just remembered a rule (that has apparently been suspended since Cody returned): we aren't suppose to discuss what's happening on meta, so perhaps it's wiser I don't say anything.
 
Because you've made it a "moderation" issue. Why didn't you just slow down (as I suggested), cast a delete vote on those posts you felt were wrong, and let the "moderation tools" do the rest? Do you have so little faith in your Community colleagues that you felt that summoning the "Meta Effect" was your only option? @cigien
 
@AdrianMole It's Friday night and we're having our usual good time on SOCVR, but it's perhaps better if we drop the issue for now...(Just a thought.)
 
3:29 AM
@bad_coder The problem is that you will always get some users to cast their delete votes on the posts. No matter what the consensus is.
 
@Scratte I can't comment -honestly- I'd have to make it to the 10k tools to figure out how things work...
 
I'm at my best when I'm having fun. I mean no offence (ever) to my fellow SOCVR members. I've already stated (more than once) that I respect cigien's contributions to the site and their opinions. But, if we can't say what me mean, then how can we mean what we say?
 
@tink Post a link to How do I ask a good question? and Minimal, Reproducible Example and ask them to kindly go through them and update their post to it's possible for anyone to reproduce the issue knowing exactly what error they should get :)
 
@AdrianMole Mostly because I had no idea that this would ever become a "moderation" issue as you put it. I asked if this was a good idea, and was told to give it a shot. It seemed to work, and I asked the second time as well. I was told to give it a shot again, and so I did. It was only then that anyone said I should slow down. If I had known how this would have worked out, I would have done things differently.
 
@AdrianMole I have to trust SOCVR wisdom on this (the rules were drawn up from experience with the aim of being prudent). In this instance, apparently, the post was started by a SOCVR member, with others commenting (however meta-effect holds nevertheless)...And I vaguely recall one of the posts mentioning the romm and so forth...I'd wait for a RO ruling and keep things within usual. It's the first time I've seen a meta post being discussed here.
 
3:34 AM
@bad_coder It's already done. And I do not think there's a rule that says we cannot discuss it. I think the rule is that we cannot make policy in this room.
 
@cigien That's cool! I remember the timings - I am many thing but not amnesiac. Chill and relax - you have done nothing wrong.
 
@AdrianMole I have a lot of trust in my community colleagues, I certainly didn't do that because I felt it was the only option. I just thought it would be a fun thing to try out.
 
@cigien But now, maybe, you have seen the awesome power of the "Meta Effect!" It's real and almost impossible to undo (I've been there - please believe me). There are always softer ways to try before going to Meta.
 
Ok, sorry for getting het up. I guess I should post the answer to the value meta post, which I've been postponing in case Cody decides to actually do the review they said they might do, clearing things up.
 
... though it may seem so, Meta is not a "fun" place. It is both strange and potent.
 
3:39 AM
meta is the place where you cannot post without getting your post edited :D
 
@AdrianMole You couldn't have said this when I asked if I should post the first hit list? :p I distinctly remember you saying something like "post on meta and find out". Actually, I'm glad you did that, because this way I'm sure to remember the lesson better than if you'd explained it to me. So thanks ;)
 
@Makyen meta post being discussed we should get a ruling and maybe move a bunch of post to the trash? I wonder how this happened...
 
@AdrianMole Despite the value trilogy posts being somewhat of a fiasco, I still find it fun :) Some people like strange and potent.
 
The thing is that for stuff that the room cannot handle, the goto place is meta. There's no guarantee that it will turn out well. Nor that anyone will agree with you. But it gets it out of the room. And if someone is bent on a mission and there's no stopping them, then there's only "Post on meta".
@bad_coder I seriously do not think we're violating any rules here. We've discussed this before in this room.
 
I believe the ban is on taking action on something despite it being discussed on meta, or otherwise moderating meta.
 
3:44 AM
I just had a network interrupt. However, to reiterate: Your first post was OK - let it roll (hence my advice - "post it and see what happens"). Your second post (the "opinions" one was made after I suggested that you "slow down".)#
 
@RyanM Yes. that :)
 
@bad_coder Maybe all the ROs are asleep at the moment, but what's the rule that is being violated exactly? My understanding was that main posts under discussion on meta were not allowed to be discussed here. Not that we can't discuss meta posts themselves.
 
@bad_coder OK. Reading.
 
(disclaimer: I have only skimmed this conversation as it is quite long, so perhaps I have missed part of it that does violate a rule. but my quick skim turned up nothing untoward.)
 
ROs never sleep - they just regenerate.
4
 
3:45 AM
Sorry Makyen.. we've made quite a transcript for you there..
 
Yeah, sorry about that. Well, mostly sorry in case we broke some rules.
 
np. Still reading.
The general guidance is that Meta moderates us, not us moderate Meta.
There is not an exclusion on our talking about Meta, but substantive discussion about something that's on Meta really should be on Meta.
That doesn't mean we can't discuss how it relates to us.
In other words, the intent is that site policy is discussed on Meta, so that it's open to everyone.
 
But this was more of personal nature in a way that it was discussing what to post, what the effect were. I don't think any of the "meta belonging things" hasn't already been said on the posts we discussed.
 
@Makeyn @cigien I made the comments here because I felt that they would be too 'personal' for more general comments on Meta itself. I never intended to judge/challenge/moderate the meta posts in discussion. Is that OK?
 
Why not let Makyen finish reading, and make a ruling first? I have a couple of questions myself.
 
3:55 AM
^ +1
 
I don't have enough rep to see, was this "hammer" closed, or did 5 people vote on it? stackoverflow.com/q/64939424/1271772
 
3 regular users.
 
@user1271772 Hammers can only close as duplicates. The votes required were reduced to 3.
 
I skipped quite a bit of the transcript from where I last left off, but I believe I found where the current subject starts.
 
hmm
 
3:58 AM
I guess I'm going to have to post about those D-vitamins somewhere else.
 
In the discussion so far it does not appear to be going over what's being discussed on Meta, it's more Meta Meta, which so far, is OK. It does appear to have gotten going a bit fast and very slightly heated.
 
OK - I'll cool down. NP
 
Is an italic slightly, more or less slightly than a normal slightly?
 

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