So this is the Welcome Wagon we were promised? Accusations of violations without proof? Character slander? This is hardly different than the generic cross posted answer I’ve seen on all the resignation posts. — Sterling Archer2 hours ago
Dunno if it has been said, but the thing most infuriating me in this 'update' is treating a moderator removal as a software deployment with the 'never ship at 6 pm on Friday', that's over the minimal human respect
@AndrasDeak This is not a "question", this is a statement, in a very volatile situation. It's disrespectful to think anyone else knows how it should be composed other than the person who wrote it. At most, spelling and grammar corrections, but no redacting.
I'm convinced that Sara put in a lot of thought what and how she wanted to say what she had to say. And I wouldn't be surprised if others had read it, as well. We may not like the message, but we should respect it.
Considering everything, it takes some nerve to come out and expose oneself (yet again). The problem is the choice of person for the job. But when I was her age I problably would have been ten times worse!
It’s just yet another case of executives being unwilling to admit when they are wrong or prove they’re right. I respect that maybe they can’t share all of the information, and that sucks for them, it it’s still just yet another case.
This post details the outcome of an experiment that reduced the thresholds for closing and reopening questions to 3 votes on Stack Overflow. Warning: this post is looong. There is no "tl;dr". There is no summary. I've been thinking about this crap almost every day for 7 years, and I'll be damned ...
This post details the outcome of an experiment that reduced the thresholds for closing and reopening questions to 3 votes on Stack Overflow. Warning: this post is looong. There is no "tl;dr". There is no summary. I've been thinking about this crap almost every day for 7 years, and I'll be damned ...
@Shog9 I can't imagine having to write all that up under the pressure that you too must be under right now. I know some people will say that it's posted as a distraction from the current issues, but you should also know how much we appreciate your work
@Script47 Thinking theories alound here, but wanting to clear one's head to be able to give more attention to a gigantic PR fiasco is different from knowlingly trying to distract attention.
In fact, if you hit 1 and someone up-votes you after, you get credit for the up-vote, so it's actually easier to "recover" from 1 than a higher reputation.
@ConspicuousCompiler why is it unfair to doubt "Sara's intent"?. The title of the post says "and an apology" and you know well that this isn't an apology at all...not even close to one
...where's the equity in all of this?
One of the things that I'm struggling to deal with as a part of this issue is how it can be resolved, and how things can go back to "the way they were". Problem is, I'm not seeing a path forward.
We don't know what an "apology" to this whole mess would loo...
@AlexanderO'Mara I don't wanna cause a headache for myself (and you), but I only now got to read it after Zoethe's pinned message, and isn't it just a more verbose version of the meta.SO one? It's not an apology, and people are pissed at it for the same reason as the meta.SO post, and I personally can see why.
@AlexanderO'Mara mods have a lot more info about what happened, so sorry if I trust them instead. Even if everything they say that Monica did is right, the way the went about it is still wrong
@AlexanderO'Mara oh, sorry, if you want to post the 100% accurate summary about what happened I might change my mind. For now, I'll continue to trust the judgement of users that I've known for years
@AlexanderO'Mara I don't think we understand each other. To make it clear: "Even if everything they say that Monica did is right, the way the went about it is still wrong"
@AlexanderO'Mara we read it differently, and we think different too. No need to keep going about this, as I said, I haven't tried to change your mind, so let's disengage
> I think it's worth mentioning that Stack Overflow as a company intentionally called Monica "they" in the public statement they gave the media (bolding mine):
More than anything, I'd like to be reassured that this whole thing was not one employee's unilateral decision... and that there was at least some reasoned, internal discussion beforehand.
"As we continue on this path to doing better, [...]" Continue? SE's meta engagement and communication have been a refrigerator tumbling down a staircase for over a year. When did this path to improvement start?
@canon I think it would be important to differentiate who, rather than putting everyone in the same pot. Shog, Tim, Megan, Cesar - nothing much to complain about, there.
the newsletter is something else. crazy how the employees now have a platform they can use to push to millions worldwide, surfing on the product the community built
Actually, I'm reflecting on the onus of SO Meta's being "toxic" and possible endangerment of its existence. SO aren't the "bad guys" this time around...
@KevinB Who knows? How many with an SO account also have accounts on other sites? How many have no SO account? A lot of names in those answers and comments I don't recognize...
What is kinda sad though is that I think we won't get more staff communications until some more time away, and that means back to hearing nothing for a week or two
They think their actions are justified. they aren't going to divulge more information that would undoubtedly fuel those that think the actions aren't justified. Nothing they can do now, other than reversing course and/or time to forget about it, would have any healing impact going forward on the majority.
Unfortunately i don't think we'll get either. The new CoC will be dropped on us without the warning/discussion we had last time, which will just fire this whole debate up again.
I personally view resigning as... ineffective. The worst way to push for change is to pack up and go home. All you're doing is making room for those that do agree with the actions taken.
I think y'all are overestimating how much of a change is coming to the CoC. From what I understand, it's going to be a sentence or two at most and is essentially a clarification of the spirit of the CoC. It's not being completely rewritten, unless I've missed something.
@KevinB Not sure I totally agree. If really the other party is completely unmoved by many people resigning, they were not worthy of the energy to begin with.
I think that decision is something everyone needs to decide for themselves. For one thing, why someone is here? Is it to gain points? Help others? Learn by helping others? For the social life and community, such as it is? All those things will influence how someone feels about staying... or not.
Anyway, as I've been saying for a week now, I'd be wary of making assumptions and speculating without having all the info... something that most people still do not have.
I wouldn't mind "refusing to respect people's chosen pronouns is rude" - but I would mind if SE decided to completely ignore community opinions going forwards.
To a certain extent, I think it's a question of opinions about which topics.
I can understand that there are some things that there's just no reason to get opinions because the company feels they must do something. Whether we agree it's a "must" is irrelevant, to a certain extent.
I'm seeing a trend that our opinons about technical matters are listened to...?
I have questions,
there is a table with clustered indexes of eight columns if I do not use all its elements in the WHERE conditionals is this still valid?
There is also a table with four columns of indexes not grouped in a WHERE query. Are all indexes valid if used or only the first index predom...
I've got a theory about actions we observe. Maybe it's a matter of simple math. Maybe some just assume that since moderators are less (much less) than .015%, this means they don't matter much?
SE couldn't afford to outsource that even to call center workers
and your average call center worker is probably not a highly logical power user with thousands of hours of experience in the subject matter they'll be asked to moderate
Tyler, you bring up an excellent point. SO users don't participate on Meta. In fact, Meta has so few active users I could have them all my apartment over for a potluck :). Yet, it seems to be a place that a lot of people leave unhappy. The CMs are welcome to participate on Meta if they want.
It has, in the past, been part of team expectations to participate on Meta. Now, what has changed is that it is optional, with the caveat that most announcements will happen on the blog.
I like the idea of the SO Company account, however, it still doesn't really help with the fact that there are Milli…
@einpoklum Ironically, some sites now without mods have nobody to actually handle CoC violations outside of the 4 CMs who are buried 250 feet under in backlog
It definitely won't change anything on the SE side, it might prove to someone that we're just petty little gremlins, and it will probably just help us wallow in self-pity. The present is depressing enough without having to dig up old wrongs.