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00:10
-5
Q: Why do you not take a joke here?

Data JugglerI went from teacher status to 1 point left because of one joke, when all I was doing was answering someone's question for free. The fact no one here is old enough to know who Johnny Carson is should not make me lose my points.

00:46
-2
Q: Yet another on strike

JoshuaI have been prolific in answering basic c questions by new users. I had been trying to get the gold tag badge by pure dilligence. Today the actual reason behind the uproar has reached my ears. The actions of the owners are not defensible. I had some hard words before I knew exactly what the prob...

 
2 hours later…
02:24
good afternoon
Good night. See you tomorrow. Or today for you? It’s wednesday here
0
Q: TOP question on landing page use tags from my profile

ozmikeCould we have an option to list on the TOP questions on the landing page related to tags in my profile. SO seems to know what tags and skills I have I'm only interested in seeing top questions related to my tags. eg a question like 'Where should I start with my OPC-UA client?' is not relevant to ...

user3956566
@TimPost is anyone ever going to reply to my emails re the diamond? I understand everyone is hysterical, but given the tension on the site and the lack of bodies on the ground, I thought the team could do with another person to help handle flags.
you are un-resigning janitorial work?
user3956566
02:41
@Lamak yeh, but I suspect they don't want me.
Um...
...what's wrong with letting staff just...deal with the chaos?
user3956566
I'm so sad by the state of the sites and the deterioration in behaviour. It reminds me of a less extreme and online version of when people go looting during civil unrest. All this hard work to get the site into a decent state. It's just sad.
Like, y'know...let them own it?
user3956566
@Makoto what's that got to do with stepping back up as a mod when a heap of people have stepped down and some sites do not even have moderators?
@Yvette: That's kind of the point, isn't it?
user3956566
02:43
why make it personal into I'm not letting them do their jobs. Offering service as a mod at this time is supportive
You're doing a nice thing which is honestly above and beyond.
user3956566
@Makoto that is the point. I can see mods on here struggling and I've put my hand up to help them
user3956566
@Makoto not at all, it hurts me to see my friends hurting.
Maybe I'm a bit more cynical about this whole thing...but I see it a bit differently.
I had a buddy of mine in college who thought he could do everything when it came to programming.
user3956566
I think they just don't want me on here. Which is just insulting ttytt
02:45
At one point we were paired up on the same programming project with a few others and he tried to kind of run the show without really seeking our input.
At one point we all just...let him do what he wanted and own more of the project than he realistically should've.
user3956566
am I your buddy in this scenario?
No, you're "us" in this scenario, in a sense.
user3956566
your buddy is the network?
We wanted to help him but he believed he could do it all and really didn't reach out.
By the time it was due it was half-done and pretty poorly baked. I don't think he received credit for it.
However, since it was a collab, we at least could document the fact that someone commandeered the project and we learned something from it.
My biggest takeaway from that whole experience is that, while we don't want our friends and teammates to suffer, we also have to let them experience this pain for themselves sometimes. Words don't get through to people like raw panic does.
Which, is unfortunate.
I made a stance on Meta SE that at this point, the company just needs to own what happened
and IMO that means own it all
Hm.
@Yvette I know it sounds trite but...
You don't need a badge to help out
While waiting, something really critical is just to make sure folks feel safe and reassured
user3956566
02:49
@JourneymanGeek you do if you want to handle flags and answer flag related mod questions. And I am helping out. I have a gold badge in discussion on meta, am retagging and answering what I can - even if it's a comment
@Yvette which is good
@Yvette :D
I get the sense that folks are kinda ... Uhm. What's the best way to put it
Like my last week. Woke up to a less than fresh pile of poo on the floor
@JourneymanGeek imagine you just finished washing your car
user3956566
@Makoto I think the company is incompetent. That is my honest thought. I predicted this would happen - not in such an extreme way and not so quickly - in fact I posted a youtube video on it. They employed too many non-programmers - let's face it the site needed some improving on the tools. They're trying to reinvent the wheel - when the success of the site rests on this Q&A site alone - and the contributions of it's volunteers. Without that all their other products fail
02:52
@Makoto they do - and it's tricky
user3956566
Collosal mistakes
and then out of the blue someone dumped a ton of paint thinner on it
Maybe multiply that mood by 5?
@Makoto my dog has been sick the last week 😁😁😁
@Makoto yup
Oh, sorry to hear that
He is better
user3956566
02:53
good
@JourneymanGeek Good to hear.
user3956566
we don't want sick pets, they're the worst and saddest
@Yvette hmm
user3956566
our best friends
@Yvette Yeah I reached that conclusion back in, what was it, June? July?
02:54
I don't agree on that
Stack Overflow is too big to fail
SE has great programmers
...and all of the products built on top of it wouldn't exist unless it had the name Stack Overflow attached to it, for notoriety's sake
They have a community team I still trust
user3956566
oh they can run it to the ground @Makoto but it would take time. In the meantime they need to make money - I think they've over extended and will end up having more staff cut backs
02:55
Software Engineering seems more chill tbh but I can't deny the rush or catharsis of answering programming-oriented questions
user3956566
And someone's head will roll for this latest chain of events
@Yvette as tough as it is I hope not
@Yvette I...hope not.
Honestly.
I don't think it'd fix anything.
user3956566
@JourneymanGeek I'm not referring to the CM in terms of extra staff
Monica is probably one of the folks in the community I respect the most
user3956566
02:56
they need CMs they're vital to the site
user50049
@Yvette It has been full-on all-hands-on-deck 16 hours a day for the last week. I owe you and like 9 more people in here an email reply (some several) and they're coming by the end of the week.
This isn't about punishment
Its about making things right, or right as we can for everyone hurt
user3956566
@TimPost try and take care of yourself, if at all possible, through this. I just want to know if you want me as a moderator right now or not.
user3956566
@JourneymanGeek in the corporate world they will sacrifice people to save the image of the site.
user3956566
I'm not being specifically critical of SOInc, but of the corporate world
02:58
@Yvette and yet I hope SE is better than that
If mistakes were made and even internally acknowledged - we end up with folks who are wiser and better than they were
user50049
@Yvette Let me get replies out tomorrow. I have not opened half of the email I've gotten this week and the half I did open was by accident.
user3956566
@JourneymanGeek I don't think so. I think the corporation behind it, is like any other corporation, which is why it's struggling. It was built upon something better and still has idealists like Tim working for it and the current ethos (altruism and inclusiveness) which suits idealists and people wanting to make the world a better place happens to suit the back end of the corporation - all my opinions, nothing I have inside knowledge of - my cynical take on the world
user50049
Also wanna say to those of you that have gone out of your way to take a moment and tell us look, this isn't about you at all, we like how you've been in here, this is about the situation we sincerely do appreciate that.
2
@Yvette and yet this was always about making the network safer for folks
user3956566
03:01
@TimPost I've told you, you're one of my fav people on the planet :) It's people like you (and @Shog9 and @JonClements) who have kept me sticking around all these years.
@TimPost hugs
@TimPost I dunno if we can trust you, though. Your keys are the reason my question got downvoted! ;)
11/10 best meta answer ever.
user50049
Still looking for those.
period.
This is a terrible situation and if I managed to make anything else, I'm sorry
user3956566
03:02
@JourneymanGeek yes I understand and you know fully support that. But I am cynical about the backend $$ of the corp. Nto because it is SOInc, but because it is a business
Worse
@Yvette I understand
user3956566
@JourneymanGeek same. I posted on mse trying to broaden the perspective - I'm out of that for the time being. Nothing seems to help atm
But it's always been a corporation
That's not new
user3956566
@JourneymanGeek it changed - I would have to get the date and the change in structure. the business end has definetly changed direction - and also it's gerown
user3956566
omg typos!
user3956566
03:04
I need to go. I'm tired and have a lot of work to do. I'll pop my head back in on a break. Nice to see you in here @JourneymanGeek xx
@Yvette so here's the thing that frustrates me the most
user3956566
I'll wait. continue
Development on Q & A kicked off again
Stuff was getting better
And its getting overshadowed by things
This situation is serious
Some of the other stuff is just kinda strange or petty
Well that was it 😁
Nothing too profound
Stuff did seem like it was on the up and up
The experiment for closing questions actually got me interested in closing questions for a bit there
user3956566
@JourneymanGeek yep they neglected development for too many years - this caused ill will and discontent to brew
user3956566
03:10
the culture on MSO at least was left unchecked as a hostile environment for too long
user3956566
this compounded issues
user3956566
by the time they started development, the way the changes were dictated (at times) to the active meta community - it obliterated the potential good faith that could have been made by finally putting in development time
@Yvette I take some umbrage to that....there were some rough edges which could've been rectified with some development work (e.g. improving how visible questions are if they were support questions)...but to say that Meta was "hostile" is a bit of an insult.
I shouldn't take it that way but for whatever reason I do. Maybe because I'm too old of a Metahound now.
user3956566
@Makoto Sara Chipps has an awful manner on meta and needs to either learn how to communicate with the site or not post at all and allow here colleagues who do to post. I'm sorry - that may be regarded as offensive - but it's true. Her manner has caused all types of offence.
@Yvette Something I can at least agree with. The first impression is vital and that did not really go well for Sara.
user3956566
03:14
@Makoto we historically had a particular culture that was hard for some people to understand - and it was definitely hostile if you didn't understand that culture. I for one experienced it as a hostile place. It took many years to understand the culture and the community - it shouldn't be so hard for people to post on meta.
user3956566
@Makoto I also get the impression the organisation of management is dis-coordinated and it has an incompetent feel to it.
@Yvette What were we doing wrong, then? I'm genuinely struggling to see "hostile".
3
That'd be the kind of conversation I want to have with someone who sees Meta as "hostile". I get it, it's not sunshine and rainbows, but I don't think we have pitchforks out at every waking moment. Helping me see what the gap is could go a long way to actually fixing the perception.
At least, maybe there's something I could change about how I interact with people. I dunno.
user3956566
@Makoto the thing is, until you're on the receiving end, it can be hard to intuit that experience. It was the sheer pile on of comments and downvotes and often some rude and outright abusive comments. When someone is posting on meta - there only needs to be 2-3 abusive comments (they get deleted, but the OP still sees them) to add to that - there's dozens of comments stating disagreement and 100+ downvotes - makes a miserable experience for someone trying to participate on the site. Ofc ...
user3956566
the op will often lash out in retailiation - they get labelled and it becomes a muddy mess
So it was the downvotes that did it.
user3956566
03:19
@Makoto no - it's the whole thing. The whole thing
Well, I don't think I'll disagree about the comments. Some people can be jerks too which is unwarranted.
Rob
Rob
@Makoto Sarah's latest post is a prime example, though admittedly it's on the extreme side of things. There were heaps of aggressive comments, calling her incompetent, calling for her resignation/firing, accusations of hypocrisy, and some outright abuse
When I locked it, people flagged to have it unlocked because they wanted to downvote it even further (it was at that time -145)
I didn't lock it to stop the votes; but to stop the comments, deletion votes and 'naa'/'rude' flags that kept pouring in
@Rob I could see that. There were a lot of people who were put off by her impression of Meta, and were dissatisfied by her answer at the same time.
That's a double whammy. Historical baggage and an answer that people really didn't like.
Rob
Rob
That's not an excuse
Not in the slightest.
It's the circumstance, though.
I would say that the part that irked me the most was when people wanted to delete the post.
Like, c'mon.
There's a difference between not liking an answer or thinking an answer is bad and then wanting to remove it
user3956566
03:21
@Makoto it's overwhelming. If one person gets on there and says I don't agree and two people debate it - sure - but when one person posts and is met by 12-20 or more people who disagree and comment as to why - plus some people are insulting - plus there's 20. 50 100 or more downvotes - it feels hostile to the OP.
I was sitting here deleting inappropriate comments as they appeared
Those people shouldn't be allowed to delete content. That was a clear and flagrant abuse of their privilege.
user3956566
@SamuelLiew that's why I want to step up - to help out.
Yes @Yvette , those were largely the points made in Sara's blog post, right? I do agree with them in large because, yeah; that echo chamber of negative feedback can really impact someone's impression of a place.
user3956566
@Makoto yes! and her blog reiterated points I've been making for years. It's a shame she has not stopped before posting on meta. To me it seems her first meta post was impetuous and reactive and it did not hold her in good stead.
03:23
fun fact: currently there are 80 deleted comments
user3956566
@Rob it gets to a point doesn't it. How many downvotes does a post really need?
@Yvette Struck me as ironic, if I'm honest. The lesson learned in the blog post was just...not applied in real time (as was my impression)
@Rob So I suppose the real question that's left is, where's the equity in this situation?
user3956566
@Makoto ikr me too. I'm sorely disappointed. I take it personally to a point - in that I've worked on the site for years trying to improve our meta culture and watching it burn down like this is heart breaking to be honest
@Yvette Eh I dunno if this is a burn down. This feels more like a lot of issues were slowly building up and compounding and they all came out in one hideous burst.
user3956566
I'm hoping (yes hoping) that when the water subsides we can have some semblance of respect, but I'm not sure where we will be when we come out of this. I'm not sure if I will even be here and who else will be here
user3956566
03:27
@Makoto yes- it's complex and that really makes it difficult to discuss, it requires a thesis to do it justice - which is why I've taken to making videos - which are still insufficient - but at least you get to make your point
user3956566
there's just too much arguing over semantics and people being pedantic. I've always chosen to moderate to the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law and that pretty much sums up my personality.
user3956566
ofc I'm flawed - I'm not intending to say I've got it right and others wrong
user3956566
anyway I really gotta work
user3956566
\o
user50049
03:29
Here you come gracing us again with being here and what happened? You've got NO horse pics to show. Not one.
user50049
I know you can do better than that.
yesterday, by Yvette Colomb
user image
:D
user50049
But that's a picture of a chicke.. OH WAIT
@Makoto IMO downvotes are the biggest problem. I remember an early post I made that received -3 in first minute itself, and that felt horrible. The reason is, on main the difference between right and wrong is knowledge based - and clearer in comparison with Meta. If you are careful enough you would rarely get downvotes on main. On meta, you'd easily get a few no matter what you write. People always seem to find something to disagree with.
I was checking SEDE about the ratio of Downvote to upvote on Meta, and there were people with more than 100 times downvotes as compared to upvotes! And that doesn't even take the deleted posts into account.
@Nisarg Like I said, I don't disagree with it. However it's really not for Meta to "fix" since the only real thing we have to express that this content isn't so valuable for Meta.
@Nisarg That's...not really all that useful. There are a lot of posts made which should be downvoted on Meta.
03:46
@Makoto And there are posts that should be upvoted too. If someone has 1000+ votes but not even 50 of them are upvotes there is clearly a problem with how they see the world. And IIRC there are several people with that pattern.
@Nisarg Mm...I'm not so sure I agree with that view.
There's two sides to that coin. One of them is that "good content should rise to the top", in which people are upvoting content that they feel is worthy.
Alternatively, there's "bad content should sink to the bottom of the ocean", in which people are downvoting anything that they feel is unworthy.
Both approaches are valid, since it does mean that good content survives in both contexts.
@Makoto I would argue that it is for meta to fix. Communication is a two way channel. If you don't intend to be offensive, but the receiver finds it so, maybe it is up to you to make your point clearer. And I know there are people who are posting comments clarifying that...
Furthermore, judging someone based on their up/downvote ratio is just another thing to label someone with, like the old "accept ratio" thing that we got rid of so many years ago.
@Nisarg A vote is anonymous. It is unvoiced. It is sterile. Those things about it make it seem unwelcoming. However, it wasn't Meta that put the power of up/down votes in their hands.
The fixes promised in the blog post are good but I still have some concerns about how they're going to really get it all to fit together. Notably, I really am unclear on the shift of direction in the platform itself.
@Makoto I understand your view, but I prefer the "judge a book by its cover" view. If I know someone disagrees with 99.9% of what they hear, I would rather find someone who is more reasonable to talk with, in general. I know meta is different, but not everyone knows that at the time of their first post.
@Nisarg That's a Big Yikes. I think...I'll disengage at this point.
03:56
Fair enough o/
Sometimes upvote/downvote ratios will be almost 1, but still the users would be toxic
Hmm, looks kinda broken i.sstatic.net/KvZlR.png
@BhargavRao the "flag" should be just below the "mod"
r/baddesign
That's why I don't like responsive design
While it is easy for the developer, it's crazy for the end user
04:12
no, it's not easier for the developer because stuff like these are easy to miss
user3956566
user3956566
I know it's dark, but she looks glorious when she trots - she is an Arab and so light on her feet it looks like she's barely touching the ground youtu.be/cyvkEz3l5h4?t=4
user3956566
Much like some foals trot - they're really light on their feet.
user3956566
user3956566
not sure if that shot is any better - it was something that was a delight to watch - if you watch that 10 secs of youtube vid you may appreciate it
04:56
RE the discussion about Meta toxicity/welcoming: I think it has improved, generally, for the people who come in looking for support. Even the "whiners" get a civil reception (while their question gets downvoted). Those with an honest question get very good treatment, it appears to me. Especially when compared to what it used to be.
When did SE start allowing animated advertisements?
-61
A: Annoying animated advertising on Music SE

Terry Guyton-BradleyGood morning. We do intend to display animated ads on Stack Exchange. However, jarring and wiggling ads will be blocked and removed from our properties. Thank you for reporting.

ah I see you already commented on it
05:48
@Makoto tbh I cannot speak for MSO
MSE has ... rough bits
lots of negativity, snark and other things
As a regular there - its one of the things I feel we did, and we had to continue to work on, collectively
and once this is sorted out - something we need to begin again
1
Q: Stack-overflow newsletter

Indrajith EkanayakeToday I have received a Stackoverflow newsletter for the first time. So what I want to know is what will be the news which we will be aware of in future months and what are community suggestions for include in the future.

06:09
/o
Good morning meta
meta.stackoverflow.com/q/390061/1841839 <--- let me just get my Crystal ball and predict some future news.
user3956566
lol
06:39
Hmm, maybe I will get lucky and there won’t be too many comments between now and when I get to work tomorrow morning that I can load back to this message and catch up on what happened while I’m sleeping.
06:52
@Yvette we should have a conversation about the meaning of life now :)
user3956566
@DaImTo yee-yeees :) how are you?
@Yvette i have a problem not sure what to do about it. There is an issue with one of the google apis theres like five open questions. How do i flag them duplicate corectly when theres really no good anwser
user3956566
@DaImTo share some links in here
user3956566
make the best asked question the dupe target. So they can be duplicated to that
user3956566
then we kindly ask @SamuelLiew to duplicate them for us on the grounds you're a domain expert
user3956566
06:58
You can also cast duplicate votes, I can help, but no longer have binding votes
0
Q: Google Service Calendar: Added and Updated Events No Longer Appear

vbcoder_mikeMy application uses a Google Calendar service - it has the most up-to-date API for Google authorization and Google Calendar. It's worked flawlessly for the past two years. However, now when new calendar entries are generated, the code operates successfully - I get an eventID back from Google, b...

0
Q: Google Calendar Java API stopped sending invitation to attendees

GawronI have a gserviceaccount for my application that sends invitations to some Google Calendar events, so I use Java API for that (class com.google.api.services.calendar.Calendar, to be precise). It worked like a charm for more than year, but now I'm having some troubles with that as it just stopped ...

-2
Q: Calendar events auto cancelled after creation using calendar API with service accounts

Vishal PanchalFor one of the cakephp project I am using google apiclient sdk. Since last week I am facing issue that when I create google event, suddenly it is cancelled and I can see that event in "Trash". When I am trying to restore that event It again fails and moved to trash.

1
Q: Google Calendar Event Not Showing in Calendar

Bharath Kumar JayaramanWe have created a Service Account in Google and Using Calendar API for adding events, it worked fine before ,after google stopped the account and reactivated it , it didn't work We have tried new service account and debugged line by line of our code and no error and also returning created events...

byond that theres probably more. Its been going on a while. I have emailed someone one at Google to get the issue escalated but you know google it could take months. Which one should be duplicate of them all?
user3956566
so this is the dupe target stackoverflow.com/questions/57870310/…
user3956566
so not sending invitations and auto cancelling events is the same issue?
I just need someone to tag them all google-api and i can hammer duplicate them myself.
Service accounts when inserting events is no longer sending the notification emails to the attendees of the events. (i may have miss linked one or two i am at work i will go though them correctly before duplicating them. )
user3956566
I've cast close votes on the three and edited the tags
user3956566
07:03
can you dupe hammer them now?
user3956566
I also upvoted the answer so that post can be used as a dupe source. Without a mod - we need an upvoted answer sigh
one is boarder line duplicate not sure he will now if its the cause of his issue or not. we can always retract it.
Thanks for the help
user3956566
yw
ok back to work need to get this tested.
user3956566
and yeh nothing is cast is stone - so closing as a dupe is really not an issue - it can always be reopened
user3956566
07:07
@DaImTo enjoy ? not sure if that's the right salutation for someone at work :)
For me it is i love what i do.
07:36
@Yvette sorry I'm on the move at the moment
62 more votes to go OwO
"Create custom filter" what is this magic and why have i not seen this before
@DaImTo it's pretty new. It lets you filter questions by various parameters and tags.
@Zoethetransgirl I have had a custom link in my browser for five years with like 15 tags this is much nicer.
08:04
Good morning. Another rainy Thursday, another 1.5 hour slog in a traffic jam to get into Rotterdam...
08:17
@NickAthePopcornKing Ew treacle.
08:32
@Gimby Drive a little south east for your free bank holiday :-)
@Druckles Yeah great, I'd be stuck in more traffic :)
How? Everyone over here is at home :p
Yes, but I can't magically teleport the car to the border of the country :)
I thought all Dutch people were magical.
Clearly, you've never been here.
08:37
Correct :-)
I can sum up the Dutch like this: they throw their trash on the floor... next to a trashcan.
And I'm not joking, I see that daily.
Please don't destroy my Kopfkino.
making me google words, how dare you.
Haha.
08:40
I guess I should have been able to deduce the meaning with the little German I learned in school... Alright, I take responsibility for my failure.
@NickAthePopcornKing Good morning, I see you got a promotion!
I thought all Dutch could speak every language fluently.
/more-stereotypes
German class. Most confusing class ever
I need to get off of stack today all i am doing is closing stuff.
@Autar >.>, no, I just made my title known to the public
08:42
You need to close stack then
@Druckles I can hardly communicate with people from the North or the south-east parts of the country, even Dutch is too difficult.
@Gimby I'll give you that.
And when I hear people speaking English.... oof.
@Druckles isn't Dutch same....
However people who are good at German or French generally are very good at the dialect too, I'll give them that.
@DaImTo ... how exactly does that mean you need to get off, keep going :)
08:47
My favourite piece of Dutch culture: youtube.com/watch?v=Ha6gO4ATJ5M
oh my god the New Kids.
That youtube username. "ThePotatoIsAStarchyTuberousCropFromThePerennialSolanumTuberosumOfTheNightshadeFamilyLOL"
2
"LOL" at the end just ruins it.
Yeah ROFL is better.
I think we can agree that LMAO is the worst.
mmm let me think about that before I agree with it.
meanwhile I have observed that Nick A the popcorn donkey kong has 5000 reputation points exactly. I don't know why, that amuses me. I like rounded numbers.
08:56
They are on their way to slowly reset to 1
5000 points being the resting point
I'm pretty she he downvotes to keep his number round.
"I'm pretty she". Do you want to talk about that Druckles?
About the discrepancy between what my brain thinks and what comes out of my hands?
Not really.
About pronouns?
Even less.

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