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19:00
@BhargavRao who else then?
(not literally shoot, ofc)
if we have complaints, and those complaints are being largely ignored or unanswered, who does it escalate too? or are we just SOL
@rlemon While I'm not advocating any violence... from what I've heard, Sara is in the board of directors.
We need a coup
yes, so another staff member.
@rlemon I am not sure of that myself. shrugs
@ndugger a chicken coup...
19:01
pft
Anyway, I'll try to have a quick dinner and get back.
@rlemon I think the official way is to write a tweet
6
@BhargavRao because I completely agree with you, volenteer moderator positions are a trying thing when this type of thing comes up.
@BhargavRao This immediately brings back the featured flag issue. When does a CM start acting against the voice of the community and how does one solve this?
but then if we cannot show disdain to the CM's / Staff.. who?
19:02
@JohnDvorak I don't think so, unless you have some new source. To be clear, the board of directors is not the same group as people who have "Director of X" titles
@BhargavRao you're too late
I agree too, this is too much for volunteers to shoulder, and they shouldn't have to. They wouldn't have to, if the corporate staff would engage even a little with the people who made this giant revenue stream for them.
oh wait. It's still 12
@SébastienRenauld Let's let the mods try to resolve it internally first. Bhargav at least did something good and prevented a further rollback war
2
@JohnDvorak You can see the current (including the new CEO) board of directors here: stackoverflow.com/company/management
19:03
@Zoethetransgirl and in the meantime, let us vent our frustration in a constructive way. i.e. don't let the bad apples spoil the bunch.
user3956566
@TylerH tag. I'm going to bed. I'm a RO too K:) That's a hair do with a fringe (the K)
@TylerH I may have conflated the two. Is she a director of something then?
user3956566
@CesarM thanks for unfreezing
@JohnDvorak She is director of Public Q&A
ah, thanks
19:03
Be cool calm and constructive in your disagreements. That would be really helpful.
so all things under stackoverflow.com/questions
@rlemon I've heard good things about Emacs. :P
@TylerH Pretty much.
so, basically, Director of Public Q&A = primary scapegoat?
@BhargavRao the number of people being out of line (in the chat) was vastly out numbered by the people having a constructive debate
4
19:04
Being non constructive just gives them more fuel to the "meta people are toxic" rhetoric.
Oh cool, one of the glitch guys in on the board of directors
so step up to bat for us
I always thought glitch was cool, but had no idea what its purpose was
If all of their users are so toxic, why don't then just ban everyone and then lose their only revenue stream?
@JohnDvorak I don’t know. I understand it to mean the person in charge with coming up with policy. But that is just conjecture.
19:04
@rlemon We are. We do.
Directors of departments report to C-suite execs, e.g. CIO, CTO, CFO, COO, etc. who all report to the CEO. The CEO reports to the Board of Directors, who report to stakeholders
@rlemon Yeah, that's the sad part. A few vocal non constructive people do derail a valid conversation. It is up to us (other users of the room) to stop them.
@rlemon We did; we've been talking to Tim et al about unfreezing this room literally since it was frozen
2
then be vocal with us about it
I feel like the community has put forward some constructive discussion, but we run out of content when it's a one-sided "conversation". In a dialogue, responses are critical.
3
19:05
@TylerH ah, thanks.
Anyway, I really gotta go for dinner ... I'll be back soon.
sometimes there are also vice presidents, presidents, senior vice presidents, etc. that are thrown into the mix that C-suite execs report to inbetween the CEO - but I don't think Stack Overflow has any Pres/VP positions
Everyone just go to discord
@GeorgeStocker good point... this would be the place, but it was frozen
user3956566
19:05
erm they are telling you now. the room was frozen so they couldn't tell you in here :)
But Tim and the small number of people who can realistically address most of the questions here are getting a hundred notifications a minute, from a dozen different sources, and are probably also being pulled into all kinds of meetings right now.
2
Of course it devolves into unproductive bickering when we're just throwing air into the wind
@DerHochstapler nah, they only consider tweets from women, poc's, people with they pronouns and people with disabilities
@GeorgeStocker in one of the many meta posts, in this room (can mods post to frozen rooms, I'm like 99% positive they can), hell Tweet about it (joke)
user3956566
@meagar what a time for me to step down
19:06
@ndugger I'm pretty sure the CoC here is what's keeping this from turning into a complete mess. Although it already is a complete mess. I really need to use "mess" less.
leaving us in the dark just adds more confusion
@meagar I was literally about to comment that they should just direct all the questions on this into a moderated chat room when he locked the post
and in no way does it feel like the users are being cared about here
@Zoethetransgirl the CoC that hasn't been released yet, yet they are still using it to get rid of people?
@rlemon Sara quite literally put it in a very non ambiguous manner that she tought the users from meta are a 0.015% not really worth listening to
19:07
There's just one thing I'm confused about: Tim Post said 4 people. Where's the other 246?
I reached out this morning and asked if/when SE inc would be issuing some communication and i was told tomorrow or the next day but probably not today. (This is not a binding response). We want there to be communication too; but our role is to pass along problems the community airs and maintain order
12
@Zoethetransgirl I work as a devleoper, and have for 15 years
I would never respond to the community who is using one of my products
That's not my job
@Zoethetransgirl doing other things that don't involve firefighting?
19:08
@ndugger Uh, no.
@meagar What if the community built the product?
@GeorgeStocker Thank you for the insight; now we know something is being sorted out (or at least looked into) :-)
Arbitrary, random SE employees are not going to come in here to answer questions about the products :p
@GeorgeStocker and like I said, that's a shitty role to be in right now because they are not communicating with us. but you guys don't need to be "just like them" in that reguard. "Hey guys, we keep asking them, they keep telling us no" is better than nothing
@GeorgeStocker thank you for that, hopefully we're not shooting too hard at you
3
19:08
I'm sure you understand that
@meagar the questions are not about products
To the moderators that remain: Do you remain on board hopeful that the SE ship will turn around? Do you agree with SE's actions? Or are you simply trying to hold it together until an official communication is released? (None of this is meant as accusatory, just curious)
Aaand, I'm out of stars
You can run out of stars?
I ran out of comment upvotes :(
19:09
I ran out of stars a couple hours ago
@Cereal Yup
I ran out of brain cells
@meagar and I'm sorry you apparently don't see that as a problem. If they start a fire, they should be expected to put it out.
2
Years I've been here, I didn't know stars were limited
It's on a per-room basis though, so even if you burn up your stars here, you can still star messages in other rooms
@meagar Actually, in "the good ol' days" that actually happened.
19:10
@ndugger I know A bit of the story, and while I have questions about the timing and tenor, I agree with the action taken. It was warranted. I do not possess any knowledge of the private emails.
@JohnDvorak ★,°:.☆( ̄▽ ̄)/$:*.°★* 。take these
Someone would post a question on meta, and Jeff, the CTO would swoop in, make a Main class that pulls some data, and write up an answer.
My stance is I wish everything would be made public.
@MadaraUchiha Ah the days before shareholders
@MadaraUchiha Every place I've worked has asked me not to do that
19:10
@GeorgeStocker Can you post that as an "answer" on Robert Harvey's post that official SE communication is forthcoming? As of now, Sara's response is all there is.
@meagar SO was younger and smaller then :)
@meagar Did those places depend on community content to have a product at all?
Most places don't want me, a random backend dev, saying something dumb while appearing to represent the company/brand
@meagar I suspect it drove Joel nuts
@GeorgeStocker To be honest, I'm surprised it hasn't been.
19:11
Also, are your clients developers or non-techies (or somewhere in between)?
@GeorgeStocker you say it was warranted, yet you do not have the private emails. I guess I can't ask you to elaborate, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see
There have been incorrect and inflammatory things said; and because only people who left are speaking, it’s one sided
@ChrisBaker 500px.com, so yes
Developers, as condescending as that may sound, like to speak to other developers about these stuff, rather than go through support.
@MadaraUchiha Yeah, but with over 10 million users on SO alone, 4 people to handle everything makes it seems like there's something wrong
19:11
@meagar Activision is currently dealing with some devs speaking their mind over the new call of duty game.

Hello Games had to right idea over the no man's sky outrage: Don't say *anything*
i fully understand and empathize with the moderators who feel a different process should have been taken feel
You'd think SE would try to get out in front of it if they weren't the bad side of things, but I can imagine how complex it is from a legal perspective, or just in general
silencing a discussion does not stop trolling. it only exacberates it. If you are not prepared to shut it all down, try listening insead (not directed at the mods)
@Cereal That seems to be the WoW team's current MO too
It sounds absolutely horrible, then. If you're something like GitKraken, sure, ignore 90% of the userbase. You made a thing, they can use it or not use it. Here, we made this thing.
Rob
Rob
19:12
@rlemon Let's move past that shall we? The room's already been re-opened by a CM
@Mgetz It's smart. Even one wrong response will just make everything worse
@ndugger Personally? I'm waiting 'till Rosh Hashana is over, I've got other stuff to occupy my poor last remaining brain cell.
oh right, forgot you guys have your holliday
big oops
@Mgetz if only you knew... :-(
Rob
Rob
It was closed for barely an hour as a stop-gap after some pretty offensive comments. We told the CM's we'd keep a close eye on the room, and they unfroze it.
19:13
@Cereal yes and no, not communicating at all makes the community feel ignored. That spirals out into a lot of venomous stuff that gets nasty
@Cereal Oh, don't worry, there have been plenty of wrong responses as of late
@Rob really? fine I'll just leave then. "don't silence discussion, it solves no purpose" > "drop it". Besides, this goes to the larger problem which is that staff have given us canned responses and then stopping discussion.
@ndugger there was a portion posted in where other moderators could see it; it is of that that I am basing my judgements on.
@Mgetz That's true too. There's no appeasing the masses
@SébastienRenauld I'm TL3 on the wow forums.. I see more than most
19:14
7
Q: I'm done with this

JL2210As evidenced over and over again across the Stack Exchange network, the company has no intent on listening to the users that procure the content for their site. They strip us of our opinions by removing "Hot Meta Posts" and not giving any explanation, while pretending that we have an opinion by ...

@rlemon That's not it.
@Cereal That approach has made the meta community quite upset though
have fun everyone. hope this dumpster fire gets answers before more good people leave.
Hello fellow chatters, how would you say the weather is today? dont say anything to upset anyone
@Mgetz Welcome to the club. BDK theorycrafter :-)
19:14
@MadaraUchiha no, that's the point I want made
@JohnDvorak Ah, but SO is run by the community so it's different
thankyou
WoW too, I guess
@rlemon You have nothing of substance to say to us that we don't already know. There's no new information entering the discussion, we're going in circles.
Rob
Rob
@rlemon That's absolutely not what I said. I said we don't need to keep discussing the freezing of the room long after it's already been resolved
19:14
There's no point to continue it here.
@SébastienRenauld GD veteran constructive commentor
Let's make a musical from this so something good will come from it
🚽
12
please star the toilet of distraction
It feels so awkward to award a gold start to a toilet
It's not even flu season yet
19:16
Sorry if that came out blunt, it was harsher than I had imagined it. But seriously, we're past it. We can continue talking about it in private if you want, but by this point it's just extra drama.
it's a trap to use up our precious stars!
@Makoto I'm not even drunk either
This damn voting limit is so frustrating.
@Michael I'm sorry, I'm out of stars to flush
@Mgetz I'm in a special case where you can't even get a public or direct message about your class, but you get Friday 5pm nerfs every patch despite being the worst at the job. Life is fun
19:16
@MadaraUchiha I think it was fine
@GeorgeStocker so without going into detail, there may be some truth to what sara said about a moderator saying potentially inappropriate things? Allegedly? I'm still concerned with the mandated language portion of the new CoC, but as I've said before, I'll call anyone by their preferred pronouns
@Zoethetransgirl It's fine, flush whatever you got, a shoe, a pet fish, some toilet paper, anything
And then you have to comfort and console class players on acherus when you know things won't get better until a year from now
@SébastienRenauld My main tank right now is BDK, I know the fun. My brewmaster has been interesting too
@ndugger there was a situation where if I were in the powers that be shoes, I would have done the same thing.
19:18
@Mgetz So you know all about the balancing nightmare where every patch things get worse, then. It gets even better when you know why :-(
Fair enough, but I don't know you, so that could be a bad thing too, lol
again, I can’t speak to the timing.
in The Nineteenth Byte on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 6 mins ago, by John Dvorak
If we go by Caleb's resignation ... SOinc has decided to require moderators to respect gender pronouns requested by the users; Monica asked for a clarification about the new rule; SOinc descended harshly on her; that made quite a few mods rather upset, which helped made the whole MSx community rather upset.
and the timing part is surrounded by emails I was not a party to
@SébastienRenauld my main is technically an Afflock so yes I know it very very well
19:18
Oh, yikes
I read that, but that's someone's personal synopsis of what happened
Rob
Rob
@JohnDvorak That's incorrect
I read that as "sonic" and was confused
So I take it with a grain of salt
I wish those hints at something would stop. It's pouring oil into a fire.
19:19
@Rob was Caleb's post incorrect, or my reading / summary of it?
why not both?
So what we've learned today is that speculation is still speculation.
sonic the hedgehog wants you to respect eachother's pronouns
@Mgetz At least it's not demonology, where you're the poster child of we-get-redesigned-and-broken-every-patch
user3956566
@JohnDvorak no it's not
@JohnDvorak those events are mischaracterized.
user3956566
It's a version that's being padded around
It’d be like saying a tornado was a wind event
isn't it?
user3956566
so is a fart
19:20
@SébastienRenauld no I'm in the "How would you like some nerf with your nerf, because you just won't stay nerfed" world
@GeorgeStocker arguing that is likely pretty pointless
Sure, so long as you don’t own a home in its path
@GeorgeStocker Honestly, now that I think about it, that would be a light-hearted way to describe non-destructive tornadoes...
"An EF5 wind event was seen out 120 miles north of..."
@Mgetz Meanwhile, the superior DoT spec remains completely unchecked
@GeorgeStocker well... technically....
19:20
people will believe who they choose to believe anyways, and in absence of evidence to draw our own conclusions, that just fans more flames
Rob
Rob
@JohnDvorak She was not de-modded for asking for clarification, or a discussion. It was a flat out refusal to agree to the terms we were asked to. There's debate between moderators as to whether the terms are fair. What the majority of mods agree on, is that the demodding of Monica wasn't handled in the best way possible
2
@Magisch that’s the frustrating part for me as well. I’d rather everything was released.
Yes let's please stop speculating and hinting
Rob
Rob
And that's about as much as I'm willing to share until SE releases more information
yes but you know how people will react
19:21
@KevinB me too at first. and I thought they were referring to user Sonic, lol
@Rob Thanks for your response.
user3956566
as a RO mags you need to let it go. set the example
@Rob but would you be willing to share your home address and credit card number?
@SébastienRenauld their scaling has remained consistent where afflock doesn't scale consistently with any single secondary. That's ideal from a blizz perspective but it's annoying to those of us trying to play.
We should all talk about how much we love stackoverflow and how fair and reasonable they are. I love you stackoverflow!
user10367815
19:22
What the heck is happening on SE?
user3956566
@ndugger that he is allowed to do
@StephanS ...okay, you're free to do that but um...
None of the accounts from resigned moderators are purely statements of fact, they're all heavily colored by the individual perception of each mod. I wouldn't entirely agree with many of them, but I don't think any of them are wrong.
@ModusTollens didn't Hamilton get shot last time that happened?
@Mgetz and @SébastienRenauld Can you keep the off-topic conversation to a minimum? I'm all for it usually, but current events and the volume of people in here warrant taking it elsewhere
19:22
SE should have done so immediately, instead of setting up this situation where volunteers and "Community Strategy Directors" piss off half the core users that created the content SO relies on. I'm considering the logistics of moving my writings off this site and blanking my contributions.
@Rob probably the only new information i got since many hours , thanks
@StephanS show me on this doll where stackoverflow touched you
Sign my petition to require all moderators on SE to release their credit card numbers
@meagar sure thing, moving to a separate channel
Someone needs to make a timeline of things that have happened and keep it updated...
2
19:23
I need to get back to work anyway
@meagar I prefer off topic chat to on topic chat right now
Well at-least it sounds like the CoC hasn't taken a turn for the worse.
but i'm not the rulemaker here
@GeorgeStocker If the new CoC included stuff people were reacting strongly to - wouldn't it have been a good thing to discuss the CoC more open? Maybe someone from the community would have had a better idea?
@Rob this is accurate.
user3956566
19:24
@ModusTollens it's not something anyone has any say in
user3956566
it's the company's choice
user3956566
it's that old thing - like it or lump it or leave it
Ok, so I disagree with SE on how they handle pretty much all issues, but I don't see a problem with requiring moderators to refer to a user by their preferred pronoun.
@ModusTollens At one point a year or so ago they did discuss some changes to the CoC - rather a re-invigoration of it. Who knows if they'll discuss it in public or just decide to implement it. They have the power to do either one.
It should be up to us -- we made this place, we deserve a say
19:25
@YvetteColomb Yeah but... Even companies could try to make better choices? :/
@ModusTollens there’s a long history as to why it was done that way first. I can’t get into that history but suffice it to say this has been a long standing issue moderators needed to resolve among themselves first
user3956566
it's a for profit concenr
SO to be renamed Authoritarian Overflow, while we're all instructed of how we must Properly Think About Issues™
@GeorgeStocker we know wat your stance is, and it's fair. What I think isn't fair is that your view of what happened you are telling it as the absolute truth, and a different view is being labeled by you as inaccurate or wrong. Isn't the whole point of the CoC that every view is valid depending on how it affects them?
5
user3956566
@ModusTollens hahaha yeeees there is room for improvements
19:25
how does one "lump it"?
@ChrisBaker We don't pay to keep the server farms running, and at the end of the day, that choice surpasses any squabbling we'd do about their policies. Without the server farm, there is no say.
user3956566
@ndugger I actually don't know - which is why I added leave it lolol
I can host my own writing, it's not like it's hard
@FélixGagnon-Grenier They've... always been benevolent dictators. I'm not sure why this is a surprise.
@Makoto Actually, we do, indirectly. No content = no viewers = no ad revenue.
19:26
I don't really need a webhost, they're abundant
I think I should be a moderator. Just don't ask the other mods if I've been a problem user. They'll lie.
@Makoto Possibly because now it's a bit less benevolent and a lot more dictator-ish?
user3956566
as long as SO doesn't lead to AA
@Makoto don't you mean our fun leaders that we love and trust
@SébastienRenauld Maybe if we paid actual money to keep things running, you'd have more of a valid point. But I see your point and largely agree with it, it's just a lot more lopsided than you want it to be. :(
19:27
I bet you expertsexchange is having a blast watching this unfold
2
@SébastienRenauld the content's already there.
user3956566
@StephanS you're loving on SO is becoming creepy lmao
@Lamak I label characterizations as inaccurate, and previous in this chat I even pointed out that depending on your perspective you could see things a certain way. I endeavor to remain objective in my reporting of what happened because my word is my only currency. That’s why I wish they would release all of it.
SO could go read-only and not run out of money for a long time, most likely
19:27
Group hug?
@ndugger we don't know if it's really true, but apparently that isn't enough. If a mod decides to use their username instead of the pronoun, it's still insulting (that's the version going on, at least)
@ModusTollens yes
@FélixGagnon-Grenier This is fair; things have changed. But the roles never really changed.
I have intimacy issues, so no hugs for me
@Makoto My time and effort is worth money. I have evidence of this because I get paid a salary for doing the same thing. I donated my time and thought, it is more central to the revenue of this company than their webservers
user3956566
19:28
@TylerH I highly doubt that
most of the people answering on here make a comparatively high salary for their efforts
damn it's really hard to work today
user3956566
@ModusTollens new headlines: SO turns to crazed love in
@Lamak Yeah, but if you're a moderator on the site, you have less freedoms. Does that rule make sense? No, but is it really all that difficult for a representative of the site to use a user's preferred pronoun? Also no.
an hour of my time costs my employer the better part of a hundred bucks
19:28
@YvetteColomb there's still some population that is not aware and are SO regulars.
so many things happening, so little stars
@Magisch are you implying I'm not working right now :D
I agree, I ain't getting a damn thing done today
The people that left don’t have to deal with any of this if they don’t want to. However I wouldnt be useful as a moderator if I lied to anyone.
@TylerH that's a great idea thank you so much
19:29
@ChrisBaker If you cease to provide that, then that's one thing. You don't have to hang out on Stack Overflow if you don't want to. If you want to expend that value elsewhere, that's fine...
@YvetteColomb I'd love that headline :D
@ndugger was not giving an opinion in the new rule, just clarifying what you said
Oh, fair enough
@Makoto I expected, based on their words, that this contribution would grant me a stake in the outcome
19:29
All I'm saying is that it's not as easy as "we pay we say" or anything like that, even if we are the primary reason that the site is as valuable as it is.
@ChrisBaker Which words?
@GeorgeStocker What if they release their part and ask mods don't disclose anything else? How can we trust them? The person who were accused by Monica is the director of the public QA, that means this site. Wouldn't they try to protect them?
Rob
Rob
@Lamak I hope my description of the events above is objective. I deliberately didn't state my position on the issue, and there are certainly nuances which I can't go into - there's a reason why the moderation team right now is very diametrically opposed.
I just thing it's a weird mass-argument to have over pronouns. I'll call you daddy if that's what will really make you comfortable.
No that'd do the opposite @ndugger
19:30
lol
@GeorgeStocker you're so right you're one of our most useful moderators and we love you for it!
Why is this room not in a Faraday cage
user3956566
@Makoto lol
@TylerH I'm not entirely sure of the "very long time" part. For "old" technologies and stacks, sure; for newer stuff, not entirely sure. rust, for instance, is about to have a major shift in the way async processing is done, and that'll invalidate a very large chunk of answers in one fell swoop. Stacks, ways of doing things and tools change
We need to stop the brain signals which are clearly affecting our poor comrade @StephanS
19:31
@SagarV if they release what moderators have access to it’ll be enough to prove the validity of the claims. Keep in mind that outside of the ousted moderator, no other mod had access to the emails. Every mod is acting based on the same things I saw
@YvetteColomb Most of their revenue comes from ads and Teams, AFAIK. The vast majority of visitors are anonymous or unregistered users. Teams would not be affected by SO main going read-only. Not much loss in revenue either way. They might see a slight dip in revenue from Jobs as the number of highly-skilled applicants starts to dwindle, but one doesn't need to use Main to also be interested in Jobs.
Rob
Rob
Please see the pinned message @ChrisBaker
I dunno, I dated a trans woman very briefly recently, and it made me do a 180 on my beliefs. It's no extra effort at all to use someone's preferred pronouns, after they've informed you of them
I don't understand the arguments
@SébastienRenauld Sure, and "very long time" is a relative thing -- did I mean 12 months? 5 years? Who knows :-)
19:32
@Rob I'm really sorry if this offends you somehow, but I can't know, I don't know you and don't think I've interacted with you previously. I do know some of the other mods, so I'm inclined on believing their reasons
@Lamak I have interacted with Rob and seen his contributions over the years -- he's a smart, level-headed person (and mod), for what my opinion is worth. I don't think I've seen a moderator action by him that I disagree with yet.
Rob
Rob
@Lamak I don't think I've said anything that's contradicted anything other moderators have said, have I?
The only moderator I have beef with is shog9, but I don't eat beef or pork anymore
@TylerH you are so right there's no way to get a community trust like saying they don't matter
user3956566
19:33
@Lamak Rob is fair and reasonable
@ndugger I'm ok with using preferred pronouns, but how would that work? Do we have to choose? Will they be displayed as part of the username? Are we really not allowed to use names instead? Will this be done to claim SE is inclusive by just enforcing pronouns?
@ndugger if you end up in a discussion with Shog, you're at least likely to get a reply.
I'm not sure what the current understanding of the root cause is. Was it about not wanting to use preferred pronouns and using an incorrect set instead, or was it about trying to use that user's preferred name over their preferred pronouns?
@Rob another mod this morning (bolt ?) also said as much in this room.
I don't think that change will have any real effect in day to day moderating of SO. I can't speak for other networks
19:35
Not sure which mod it was. I’m on mobile so I can’t go back and check
@ModusTollens My guess would be it's more an issue when you deliberately use the wrong one.
@ModusTollens I understand your frustration and hesitency, but none of those questions are as important as making another person feel comfortable. So will you have to maybe put in some extra effort? Perhaps, but will it be worth it? Also perhaps, I have no fucking clue lol
@TylerH that's why you're one of the mods we trust and care for so deeply
@Lamak what Tyler said
@ModusTollens We're still missing a lot of details. SE might be planning a system for all we know.
19:36
@ModusTollens You're asking all the same questions that moderators are themselves asking. The CoC is not done, we haven't read it, and it's possible the events of the last few days will cause slight iteration to it. All we can do is wait and see.
2
@StephanS is this a bot
@ndugger Why would I stop making people comfortable?
@ModusTollens I didn't mean to say that, just that I don't think it will create any extra work on your part to use people's preferred pronouns, as long as they tell you what they are. Nobody can read minds.
I've never said @Rob isn't fair or reasonable. Just that I trust some other people more, don't think that's wrong
@GeorgeStocker well we love bots, haven't you seen caprica six ;)
19:38
trivia hefler is an amazing actress.
Loved her work on burn notice too.
I'd like to report George for being a bot
No I'm not a bot, I just in love with stackoverflow and the mods
If a bot says they are not a bot does that mean they pass captcha
@meagar You're right. But I'm afraid of something. I might just be paranoid. What if SE is putting us in the dark deliberately? Let everyone get worked up, then reveal it's about pronouns and being inclusive and then stating "see all these angry established users? They refuse being inclusive!" yeah I'm paranoid and tired and have a headache, but still.
no captcha is safe from future ai
19:39
As a human, I have trouble telling the captcha I'm not a bot.
Personally I prefer to singular "they". Avoids the risk of guessing incorrectly.
user10648668
@ndugger "...It's no extra effort..." - That's viable when you're dealing with 1 or 2 non-binary people on a daily basis. Mods have to interact with a lot of people on a daily basis; remembering the specific pronoun choices of even 10-20 people is not easy and probably too much to ask for.
I thought depriving someone their human dignity by implying that they are bots was one of those "toxic put-down" things
@ModusTollens Let's hope not!
I'm really a human, and yet I frequently fail captchas. So, the machine is telling me I am a machine.
19:39
I simply use whatever i feel like using until told otherwise.
and i can't recall the last time that occured
@JohnDvorak why are we doing this again?
@halfer If we were machines, would we know it?
...sorry
@GeorgeStocker you literally just dehumanized me
Like to the fullest extent
@Blue From what I've read, the ask is that you use their pronoun after they've told you it. I assume this is on a thread-by-thread basis, or some sort of profile field SE is planning to integrate? Overall, I think we're speculating far too much; we need to wait for an official communication
19:40
@AlexanderO'Mara I could be a consciousness of a sophisticated computer that I have been fooled into thinking has not been invented yet.
Folks... this is the conversation we weren't supposed to have
Does that mean I won't be called "sir" all the time? 8D
oh, right
just trash the pronoun talk
We keep devolving
It's a hot topic
19:41
Right
Please take one of your drink of choice, and a moment to cry into it
@ndugger I feel a little offtopicness would help the moods
I was just called a robot
@Mgetz Ooh, whisky please, straight up
19:42
@Mgetz I haven’t stopped for hours
Sausage water
But I'm at work; how am I supposed to get a pint of pigs blood?
@ndugger I hear it keeps well in the (company) fridge
@GeorgeStocker 🥃🍻🍸
19:43
I'd like to take a moment to pat myself on the back for not trolling too much during this time. Please congratulate me.
@StephanS I'm tempted to ping this to robot.. but he's in discord
@ndugger here's a pizza for you 🍕 (it's delicious)
@ndugger Mix it with meat, and stuff into intestines or intestine-shaped plastic bags
@ndugger Legitimate question. "After they've told you it" - where? can there be a way to keep track of this? @Blue highlighted it, if you want a good parallel, try remembering the birthday of 20 people without a mistake once in a while
@ndugger I think you have an unprecedented amount of moderator and CM attention on this room, trolling would be a bad idea :p
19:44
You must not have moderated me before
Damn the consequences
user3956566
@ndugger oh Gawd I have! I just realised who you are lol
@JohnDvorak blood sausage? :pukes:
@YvetteColomb Yeah, you and I have had our run-ins
@ndugger Hang on, I am going to set up a captcha that will congratulate you if you pass the test.
user773737
@SébastienRenauld I suspect a step-by-step guide will be released with the new CoC revision
user3956566
@ndugger and we were getting along so well just now
19:45
@ndugger While I fully agree with you ... isn't that what you're asking for?
@YvetteColomb that doesn't have to end... yet
user773737
SE will probably send everyone who requests it a special notebook in the mail where you can put down a user's ID and their preferred pronouns to help you keep track
cmon everyone
cut this
user3956566
@ndugger hehe! I agree. Life is short, enjoy
(we decided on no more pronoun talk)
thanks
19:47
@Houseman hahaha that's so funny I love the weather, I also love stackoverflow and their mods
@Magisch were you a moderator on an SE site at one point?
@GeorgeStocker no
I'm not sure how to phrase this, but generally in my relationships, I try not to ask more from than I give to other humans. How does that align with requesting from someone to change how they interact with me, and speak to me?
he doesn't need to, he just uses The Voice
Hey, sorry for overstepping with my latest question. I've deleted it and I'm taking a step away from Meta.
19:48
@Magisch interesting. For some reason thought you were
I used to be the CEO
:shrug:
@StephanS If you aren't a bot, please respond with the sum of the numbers five and seven.
not of SE
user3956566
@JL2210 it's all good. The thing is to try and keep things on the calm end instead of amping things up
19:48
just like of something else
@JL2210 We'll miss you
@GeorgeStocker He almost was at some point, we were rooting deep for it :)
@weegee I canceled my deletion unless nothing happens.
@GeorgeStocker I ran a couple times, never made the cut
19:49
@StephanS Thank you
I'll still be here for a little longer.
@MadaraUchiha Is that a trick question?
@JL2210 that's good to hear
user3956566
@Machavity look back at the transcript
@Machavity 😃 I love SMBC
19:49
Weren't we looking for a cool name for this room some time ago?
@AndrasDeak Now I have an image of a singing cactus on the stage and all of us sitting in chairs with our back turned waiting to hear (The Voice is a talent show in the UK)
@ModusTollens Got an idea?
@roganjosh ah, maybe not that one :P
@Magisch I feel like you should have. Sorry to hear you didn’t.
@GeorgeStocker blatant repism
19:50
@MadaraUchiha I had some but they weren't good
@AndrasDeak in mobile chat no one can see your rep
user10648668
@Houseman Even then, I'm not going to check a users' profile every time I write a comment aimed at them. Jeez. Their only legit option would be to append pronouns to usernames. :P
@Blue since you're missing the hints: please drop the pronoun talk. This is not the right place nor the right time.
4
I'll keep contributing actively on Main until next year. Then I plan to nominate myself for moderator.
user10648668
@AndrasDeak OK.
19:52
that's called acupuncture
@GeorgeStocker kind words. thank you
@Blue thanks
@StephanS I am not an elected moderator, btw. Just a Room Owner here (and elsewhere)
too late, you're already basking in their love

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