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11:00 PM
It's not about which language has a stronger type system. It's about which language is appropriate for a task.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I seriously wonder what makes you be so condescending in this aspect.
@rlemon thank you. That'll be it.
 
@BartekBanachewicz it's probably having your position like... 3 years ago
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum and obviously you didn't make any mistakes in those 3 years
 
I used to think that too, it's very appealing.
 
You see, I'm really learning a lot of JS lately
 
11:01 PM
No seriously..are you back on the "js is terrible" train?
 
@BartekBanachewicz Great :)
 
I still miss a lot.
 
You're also enjoying it, you said so :D
 
But with each and every part I learn, I am more and more sure I am not wrong.
 
js is terrible ? why didn't you tell me earlier
 
11:01 PM
pretty sure I just ate a llama.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum of but of course, I wouldn't write it if I didn't
 
@BartekBanachewicz Saying "Language X is superior to language Y" is rather moot, languages have pros and cons - they do some things better. That's why I dislike the C++ room sometimes :D
Also why I like it, it's a great troll, I did it all the time :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum We have to do it because of C
 
@BartekBanachewicz C is the appropriate tool sometimes, I hope you realize that :D
 
Because C literally does nothing better than C++
@BenjaminGruenbaum yes, if you don't have a C++ compiler
which is a moot point again because you don't have a choice then
 
11:03 PM
if you need an epic kitten image/meme ONE time.. you don't find one
post me some epic kitten images! thats an order :p
 
@jAndy I did
 
ha! SomeKittens is there like a good neighbour
 
@BartekBanachewicz that's one reason.
 
> It's better to use C than C++ when you can't use C++
 
11:05 PM
I just think "X language is terrible" is a fine opinion.. but keep it to yourself when you are around enthusiasts for said language.
 
yeah hard to agree with that reason
@rlemon why?
either I'm wrong and I'll learn something, or I'm not and you do
 
because you sound like a dick coming into the js room telling us our language is shit in your opinion
 
@rlemon if you're so sure it's not shit, that shouldn't bother you, no?
if someone's to change my opinion about JS, it's you
 
@BartekBanachewicz let's try asking Joe
 
no it does bother me. if I was head to toe wearing red and you were sitting next to me on the train telling me how fucking horrible of a colour red is I would be offended
and the fact that you don't think that is offensive is just a wow moment for me
 
11:07 PM
@BartekBanachewicz I take that as a personal failure, just so you know :D
 
you can't change the stubborn persons mind when they have already decided they are right and you are wrong.
 
(The fact you think that, not that you dislike JS)
 
@rlemon I don't think it's an appropriate analogy, because we're engineers, not matrons on a train
 
It's not my responsibility to not offend everyone around me.
 
we're peers
 
11:08 PM
I'm not trying to convince you JS is awesome, it's perfectly OK to dislike a language - my job is to get you to study more math, and to try languages out in practical scenarios and understand not every apple is an orange.
 
you enter a room dedicated to a language and tell the occupants their language is bad
 
@rlemon WebRTC, if you will
 
@rlemon I'm not decided on anything. Again, I keep learning JS. And it's not set in stone, it's just my opinion formed on all my knowledge and experience
 
think before you talk.
 
@rlemon yes, I do. So what.
 
11:08 PM
I don't appreciate it
it offends me
 
Then don't participate in the discussion
 
take it somewhere else
 
Use the ignore button.
 
@rlemon why do you care?
 
this has the potential to become an epic chat now
getting some chips
 
11:09 PM
@jAndy the game.
 
FUUFUFUFUFUFUUFUFU
 
With all due respect, this discussion is more on offtopic than 90% of stuff here
 
because it bothers me to see it. since he's joined the chat it seems every time I see him talking it comes up how bad of a language js is
 
first time I lost for days
 
11:09 PM
And usually involves more real knowledge than idiots coming here and asking about jQuery
so if you don't think actual JS discussion is appropriate for JS room, I don't know that else I can tell you
 
I see you tossing very legit arguments back at him and he just, nope, bad language.
 
heh
 
after a time of it, I am getting really annoyed with it.
 
@rlemon I don't disagree with everything @Benjamin says. I still have a lot of concerns that remain unanswered.
 
@rlemon I haven't lost hope :D
 
11:10 PM
@rlemon and that's precisely what ignore button is for
 
no that is what private rooms are for
 
meh, copy is here.
 
why @BadgerGirl does not rename into paste
 
if we were in a private room we would effectively turn that into 1on1 debate
 
copy is cool and he's a really swell guy, but in all honesty his strengths don't put him in a position where he gets to say if language X is good or bad :D
 
11:12 PM
and I guess others can still have some valuable input.
 
@BartekBanachewicz learn Rebol..
 
ooh ^^ x2
 
If you go to their room and tell them their state machine language has state they'll look at you and go "WTH does he want o_0" :D it's a really funny room.
Everyone there is very smart.
 
w/e i still find you to be in very bad taste the way to talk down about javascript
 
Haven't been there in a while
 
11:13 PM
Like, 2 orders of magnitude over the average room here.
 
@rlemon I have to break the "it's not a problem" shield somehow
unless you say something is fucking terrible people will keep saying that "it's not a problem"
 
@BartekBanachewicz want to contribute? Figure out an issue for us in Bluebird :D
 
OK, Looking good so far, got my server running on Node.js :)

I see that it's pretty bare you have to load your files and send them via response, can anyone recommend a good library/framework for node?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum wat?
 
11:15 PM
@BartekBanachewicz your attitude is terrible.
 
oh you're another one trying to get me to work on promises.
 
Offer a suggestion with monadic regions :D
 
@Deniro express
 
@Deniro there is only Express. Express and Express only!
see!
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I guess I have no choice but to dig through that
 
11:15 PM
@BartekBanachewicz great. It's actually an interesting problem :)
 
Express had better be sexy!
 
We want C# using in promises with multiple resources asynchronously returning acquired resources.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum you need more >>=
 
@jAndy Thanks, I will find her now :)
 
oh wait that's what I'm supposed to do, huh?
Then "you need more >>=" is gonna be the title :D
 
11:18 PM
@BartekBanachewicz When I get value types I'm going to make .then >>= :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum aw, I guess my lack of knowledge about JS can hurt a bit there
 
Also, do notation :D
I can do that with generators though
 
the syntax will suck anyway
 
Doesn't have to
 
there's no operator overloading -.-
there's no `infix`
 
11:20 PM
I like infix
 
anyway you know if you want that stuff to be fast and run in parallel then basically it should be pure
Any synchronization of side effects will be terrible here
 
@BartekBanachewicz wow, so are you telling me that if I want to get referential transparency I should... code code that is referentially transparent?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum it's 0:22am
 
:D
1:23 am here
I'm having a relating issue though, I wrote PLinq for promises and you can't get closure data, so your promises can only access the argument passed.
Then again, you'd probably actually like that.
 
was writing "that's perfectly ok"
I mean you really can write without using this, for example
 
11:24 PM
Yeah, but this is very helpful.
 
and very dangerous in its "helpfulness"
 
Suggestions for management (specifically technical) books?
 
Having a shared scope across a chain of promises (composition of functions) is very useful. It's nicer than functions and there are no side effects.
 
I wonder how many people/day trip on it
 
Once you're out of the chain, it's dead.
Moreover, actual promises forbid this anyway, Bluebird only gets away with it since it becomes a bound promise.
 
11:25 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum runState (pA >>= pB) whistles
 
> onFulfilled and onRejected must be called as functions (i.e. with no this value). [3.2]
spec
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum interesting
 
In practice, not having to pass everything as a value always, in the same chain, saves a lot of boilerplate. State is simple :D
 
@jAndy I did in the security room.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum well monadic State takes a while to get used to. At least it did for me.
 
11:27 PM
@BartekBanachewicz it's really quite intuitive once you grasp it. It's just more to write.
 
> once you grasp it :)
 
Still more to write, sometimes you want state, it simplifies logic a lot.
Well, not the logic - it's the same, it's just like passing a second return value each time in the chain
Promise.bind({}).then(...).then(...); // this refers to the bound object and can be shared without leaking state outside.
 
Banani, be nice. >:(
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum evalStateT ((\_ -> do x <- get; lift $ print x) $ undefined) 5
look ma, no types
(sorry for the convoluted example, but I wanted a one liner)
@BadgerGirl I'm on a boar.
 
@BartekBanachewicz so readable :P
 
11:32 PM
quick, I need a reason why 10 == '10' is bad, I can't convince my friend :P
 
@DoorknobofSnow "weak type coercion sucks"
 
@DoorknobofSnow it's not always 'bad'.
 
@BartekBanachewicz tried that already ;)
 
@DoorknobofSnow but the abstract equality algorithm is really complicated so the overhead of reading a == statement is huge compared to ===
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum so when is that preferrable to 10 == parseInt('10', 10)? :/
 
11:33 PM
@DoorknobofSnow well so that's really "how to convince him that weak typing sucks"
 
@BartekBanachewicz :P I suppose so
 
@DoorknobofSnow quiz him on anything in es5.github.io/#x11.9.3 that's how == works, I bet you can find someone he doesn't know.
Then ask him "what if that's the case, you have to check that every time, right?"
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum ok, thanks :P
 
@BartekBanachewicz duck typing doesn't suck.
 
foo = do
        x <- get
        liftIO $ print x

main = evalStateT foo 5
that's more readable and should work. (in any State context that has IO somewhere)
@BenjaminGruenbaum runtime overhead! PERFORMANCE!
 
Cat once said that if a language needs ===, its type system has serious problems
I agree with that completely
Equality should be obvious and value-based
if it's not obvious don't use the operator
 
@BartekBanachewicz Lol Cat :D
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum he has his moments
 
@BartekBanachewicz do you know why JS has ===? They wanted to make === act like == and == be explicit - Microsoft said no ^_^
 
so they left it fucked up instead :thumbsup:
but yeah JS is not terrible not at all
imma go to sleep, i shouldn't stay up that late
see you around
 
11:41 PM
good night!
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Any book recommendations?
 
@SomeKittensUx2666 on what?
 
18 mins ago, by SomeKittens Ux2666
Suggestions for management (specifically technical) books?
Just got some extra Amazon cash
 
@SomeKittensUx2666 Coding Horror has a nice list. I kind of dislike management :P I do it and I think I'm ok, but I'm not really passionate about it.
 
@copy MEOW
 
11:45 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Hah, just went over that. Read most of 'em
 
11:59 PM
As astounding as the NSA surveillance revelations are the part of me that knows about computers can't help but be impressed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/15/us/nsa-effort-pries-open-computers-not-connected-to-internet.html?hp&_r=1
 

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