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6:00 PM
vOv
Do we really need to discuss over the proper use of an emoticon ? ^^
Not really, sorry @dystroy.
Emoticons are an indication of how crappy our generation is with words :)
We can't express ourselves so we draw faces when we write.
@BenjaminGruenbaum shrugs
@BenjaminGruenbaum smiles
@BenjaminGruenbaum The internet is basically ancient egypt. We worship cats and communicate with pictures.
6:05 PM
Aside from the slaves, Ancient Egypt was a pretty cool society. I loved Egyptian Mythology as a kid
Ancient world was pretty cruel :)
@Retsam but we don't celebrate the sun
eh
> Thanks for feedback. We likely won't do this because in TypeScript because we use types to check syntactic properties and not to give additional semantic information.
Still pretty cruel now, just in different ways
6:06 PM
@BartekBanachewicz that's a solid answer though - wha did you ask for?
@BartekBanachewicz by the way, I saw you were looking for a function composition operator before - basically you have _ which is a library containing all sorts of useful stuff like that.
@RUJordan I have to imagine there were some... quirks... with having society ruled by a god-king tyrant, too.
@BenjaminGruenbaum dunno, "sure because we are actually a working towards a good type system"
Seriously. anyone who has purchased an Adobe product in the last little bit from their website may want to contact their Credit Card company and get a new card.
@BartekBanachewicz What did you ask for?
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't think it would work very well in TS
6:07 PM
@BartekBanachewicz Why? It's just a JavaScript library that's very common and it's like 2kb
@BenjaminGruenbaum that was a thread about operator overloading, obviously
@BenjaminGruenbaum remember I'm not writing in Javascript
@BartekBanachewicz Ah, in typescript?
helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/customer-alert.html What this site doesn't jump out and say, but my letter did: they also got your credit card information
6:08 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum yup
@BartekBanachewicz I don't see how that's true, or how that has anything to do with using underscore.
@BenjaminGruenbaum you can't use JS libraries in TS directly
@BartekBanachewicz ES7, they are type based actually. I think you can only do it for value types - if it were up to me you could only do it to immutable value types.
@BartekBanachewicz Yes you can.
@BenjaminGruenbaum if you cast to <any> which isn't very nice really
@BenjaminGruenbaum when is ES7 coming?
my goodness... I was so confused. I thought you guys were talking about TeamSpeak
6:10 PM
Chromium 124
@BartekBanachewicz I'm awaiting ES6 for now
@BartekBanachewicz First of all people added annotations to underscore, you have underscore.ts etc. Second of all casting is ok.
@BenjaminGruenbaum how could casting be ok
@BartekBanachewicz I have no diea - it's something that's being discussed right now.
especially casting to <any>
6:11 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You have a "pretend" type system in TypeScript anyway - like they told you - their types hold no semantic meaning ^^
@BenjaminGruenbaum still better than dynamic typing.
@BartekBanachewicz explicit casting means you know something the compiler doesn't. Sometimes it just is true.
and still better than <any>, while we're at it
@JanDvorak very rare cases
@BartekBanachewicz pretty much any case where you're interfacing legacy code with weaker type guarantees
@BartekBanachewicz no, not really :P We've had this argument before here and you lost and then we had it in the C++ room and you lost again - I like seeing someone so persistent though. Doesn't make "Pretend typing" any less useless.
6:13 PM
> legacy
@JanDvorak Every cast is a fail, just not always your fail.
@BenjaminGruenbaum where did I lose again
@BartekBanachewicz ah, forget about it :P
any typing is better than dynamic typing
even if it's so ridiculously bad like in C or Java
It's like you didn't even read my arguments. I'm not against a type system I'm just saying the compiler can't really enforce it well for me so it should get the fuck out of my way.
6:14 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum so you chose to forget what Cat and others told you about dynamic typing being a subset of static typing?
@BenjaminGruenbaum sometimes it's the language's fail. If you branch on the type, you still need to explicit-cast to that type in Java
You have yo think about your types in practice.
if you don't write the code that compiles that's your fault, not the compiler's
@BartekBanachewicz I said that... and it's true, but I don't see how it has anything to do with anything. Something being derivable from something else doesn't make it less useful.
1 min ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
any typing is better than dynamic typing
6:15 PM
@BartekBanachewicz TypeScript typing is an excuse for people who don't think about their architecture.
@BenjaminGruenbaum Excuse me?
are you joking now or what?
Are you implying I don't think about my architecture (as you called it)
@BartekBanachewicz no, I'm implying you shouldn't use TypeScript :P
Most of my Ruby code actually uses implicit strong typing
Whoa, DC police have subwoofers so you can feel the siren before you hear it. That's crazy!!
You're new at coding JavaScript - it's not your fault it sounds interesting and cool.
6:17 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum what sounds interesting and cool again?
@JanDvorak Most code that uses strong typing in sane languages does it implicitly :)
Lua is interesting and cool.
/strong/static/g
@BenjaminGruenbaum Java lacks implicit typing
@JanDvorak that's called "type inference" FYI
6:18 PM
@BartekBanachewicz thanks :-)
@Loktar you around?
well w/o type inference strong typing is annoying as hell
@BenjaminGruenbaum does C++ count as sane?
but in haskell you can well write f a b = a + b and it will compile Look Ma, no types!
6:19 PM
@JanDvorak you're using the direction of my "implies" wrong.
@BartekBanachewicz C++ at least has typedefs, making explicit typing less annoying
@JanDvorak also auto and shit you know..
@BartekBanachewicz you can do that in Ruby, too
except in JS f(a,b) { return a + b; } is not checked at all, and haskells's f a b = a + b will check everything
there goes "type system is slowing me down" BS
@BartekBanachewicz that's because that's not where your bugs are in most cases.
6:20 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum oh. Good to know. My fault.
Of course it slows you down.. even with type inference, even in Haskell.
*knock**knock* Hello, can I talk to you about Haskell?"
@BenjaminGruenbaum so what? It still protects you from a lot of bugs and doesn't add any effort
Source: coding Haskell
@BenjaminGruenbaum how again?
f(a,b) { return a + b; }
f a b = a + b
look which one is shorter
6:21 PM
@Retsam You might get more listeners than Jehovah's witnesses, though
JS is slowing me down it's longer to type
such slow. much dynamic.
@BartekBanachewicz that's being fixed :)
@BartekBanachewicz s/js/es5
@Retsam The Church of Haskell of Strong-type Systems
@BenjaminGruenbaum JS is going to be shorter to type? what??
(Pardon me if I'm misreading)
6:22 PM
@RUJordan I love ES6's fat arrows
@BenjaminGruenbaum until JS gets operator overloading it won't beat lift and <$> and >>=
Haskel Saves [you from having to do typing]!
!!google ES6
@RUJordan function..return is about the only verbose thing in Javascript
6:22 PM
@BartekBanachewicz You can't use all that Haskell is the best thing since sliced bread when talking to people who've actually used haskell in practice. I love Haskell just as much as the next guy but it's far far from a silver bullet to every programming problem.
@BenjaminGruenbaum I thought we were talking just about type systems now
@JanDvorak not really :P
pardon me if I misunderstood
and how I "shouldn't use TypeScript [no reason -- editor's note]"
@JanDvorak Well you also have the verbosity coming from structural specificities, like the need to deal with callbacks
@BenjaminGruenbaum ... and prototype, and the DOM API
6:23 PM
I'll have to look that up when I get back from lunch.
!!afk lunch
@RUJordan Stay safe.
@BartekBanachewicz Ah, type systems are awesome - but static typing doesn't solve the biggest class of bugs I have when writing most code - it's very useful in some cases which is why I use it in those cases. It's not a 1 size fit all like you describe.
one size never fits all.
@dystroy hmm, true. Callback hell also contributes to verbosity. Though ES6 solves that as well.
that is such a BS claim
6:24 PM
You're taking a huge problem and oversimplifying - different technologies excel at different things.
@rlemon source - your mom
2.0
@BenjaminGruenbaum name one that benefits Brainfuck
no she fits all ;)
2.999999999999999%
@BenjaminGruenbaum with type inference it's not harder to write so it will still solve some bugs.
@JanDvorak Again, that's the wrong direction of "implies".
6:25 PM
@JanDvorak mental masturbation?
@JanDvorak you get to tell people you know brainfuck.
Cya all later
!!afk meeting
@BenjaminGruenbaum Hurry back, ok?
@FlorianMargaine Malebolge surpasses Brainfuck in that sense :-)
6:26 PM
@NathanJones Stay safe.
what does that do
@NathanJones Were you bitten!? Strip! Prove you weren't bitten.
!!tell nathan help afk
@nathan afk: Set an afk message: /afk <message>. Invoke /afk again to return.
hmm so that underscore thing has function composition
6:34 PM
!!help
!!/listcommands
@NathanJones 420, help, listen, eval, coffee, live, die, refresh, forget, ban, unban, info, jquery, choose, user, listcommands, norris, urban, parse, tell, mdn, afk, awsm, color, convert, define, findcommand, get, github, google, hang, inhistory, learn, 5318008, i_am_a_robot, aliens, ym, format, 3point14, camel, ihatelanadelrey, fa, knock, lick, insult, ultimateinsult, microlove, easytools, wherearethegoats, tobacconist, ninjad, adventure, w3schools, 3mdn, joystick, stackoverflow (page 0/5)
Wow, just saw a 29 minute delay between someone approving a PR on bitbucket and getting an email about it...
@BartekBanachewicz Honest advice, I think lodash is better than underscore and provides the exact same functions.
@Retsam I just found that
Function.prototype.compose  = function(argFunction) {
    var invokingFunction = this;
    return function() {
        return  invokingFunction.call(this,argFunction.apply(this,arguments));
    }
}
6:39 PM
has anyone compiled node.js on a rPi?
just curious how long it took ? minutes? hours?
crazy guy
@rlemon iirc, people reported it took hours
better cross compile...
what are the adv and disadv using background-image: url() vs <img src=""> ?
ouch
@FlorianMargaine that is awesome.
@vzhen first is a CSS property and second is a DOM element so I am not sure how you want to compare those
6:44 PM
@bartek will the images css property in cahce also ?
@FlorianMargaine thats almost every week at MetaRain
and in a longer run like 3 months it ruins your body completely ( like it did to mine ) , hell we have had days when we all stayed up all night at office went to breakfast the next day morning at 10 am when the work was done
@someguy @zirak (and anyone else who likes philosophy) arts.uwaterloo.ca/~kwesthue/regiftedxmas12.html
@SomeKittens Zirak is afk: learning to fly
@vzhen if your server is setup for the client to cache resources, all resources that allow it will be cached
6:50 PM
ic thanks @rl
so to answer your question: where caching is concerned, there is not much difference using HTMLImageElement vs a css background rule.
@rlemon
ok
the comments:
> I'm not impressed. All that mouse movement and window switching must of cut into your productivity - not to mention failing to reuse other people's commonplace code for pathfinding. What a weird waste of time.
YouTube comments will always find something to criticize; it's just amazing.
> well he did mention this was for learning to code. So using someone elses 'commonplace code' as you call it would defeat the entire purpose. And if switching windows for testing is really cutting into your productivity ... well then I don't know what else to tell you besides you have a fucked up process.
my response
I understand it does take time. but if that is a productivity bottleneck then I argue the rest of your process is to blame.
takes a fraction of a second to alt+tab
6:58 PM
is there a pair programming service out there? That you can hire an expert to pair code with you for a day or 1/2 day or something? I think that would be a seriously cool idea.
@jbolanos I can tell you that your code sucks for a moderate sum of money
I did wince a little at the coffescript comment in his blog.
use it wisely !
@BartekBanachewicz ass hat
7:00 PM
@jbolanos lol.
for( ass as hat ) {

}
@BartekBanachewicz And i now see why your code is more in strict languages
I was programming python for the first time in awhile, after a lot of javascript programming, and I realized that I really do dislike python syntax.
I mean for companies where you are the lonely programmer (javascript) and can hire someone to pair code with - I think it would make a great training tool. Maybe I'll develop something - just need a good online tool - LOL
@jbolanos (Y) go for it
make sure the pro's have a really hard test : or a community based vote
7:01 PM
I like python semantics, but javascript syntax more. Coffeescript is javascript semantics python syntax. Just sounds like worst of both worlds.
I think pair programming is a PITA - but having a second pair of eyes on hand that understands the software you are working on is defiantly valuable.
@rlemon its great for learning
doesn't have to be a pro - could just be two people to work on random projects - but experts could hire out their time to pair with people and get paid through educational funds.
it is a pain in the ass if you are trying to get shit done though
@rlemon I actually have had pretty good experiences with pair programming. Both for learning and getting stuff done.
7:02 PM
@Retsam That's wrong, CS is going much further than python
@rlemon completely agree
@Retsam eh, maybe I just had shitty partners.
In a bad way
actually - pair coding can make things go faster - fewer 'stuck' moments :)
more bikeshed issues
7:03 PM
@jbolanos keep @Raynos and @BartekBanachewicz to pair program in any language
that might go anyway
@Retsam It's a postmoderninst debate, arguments are attached to self, so if you can make an argument against what they're proposing, your self is 'better' than them. Stupid, but that's what people subconsciously think.
but try me + florian we would obliterate each other :D
@Retsam I've had good and bad, entirely dependent on the partners.
@AbhishekHingnikar I highly doubt that.
am just pulling a joke -_-
duh
7:05 PM
Yeah. I've always been lucky to have programmers who were pretty competent.
like you did with jbolanos
I worked at a startup where pairing was the way of things. The only problem is I'm a UI developer and they paired me with a RoR developer. So instead we ended up filling in stuff and bored 1/2 the time while the other person did their part.
@AbhishekHingnikar somehow I still have "JS is used by a lot of people so it can't be bad " that you said in mind . I hope that was a joke too.
I did a programming contest in college which was really entertaining; I call the format "Three nerds, one computer" because that's basically how it is.
@BartekBanachewicz "Sometimes things that are popular are popular for a reason. Because Will Smith is in it. Or because they're good."
posted on November 20, 2013 by danielisaksson

Learn how North Kingdom built an immersive multimedia experience optimized for modern mobile browsers.

7:06 PM
Have you done a Hackathon? I have done several in SF where you get put on a team based on your skill set and you build a working app in 24 hours.
@Retsam notice the "sometimes"
which pretty much invalidates that as an argument
@BartekBanachewicz But as a funny quote, it works wonderfully.
@Retsam oh but of course. That's why I asked @Abhishek for a confirmation that he was indeed joking.
Hey
Why won't this work
form.find(":button");
oh wait it's .find
7:09 PM
@HarryBeasant jsfiddle or it didn't happen
its probs something stupid
This isn't a testable fiddle, even after inclusion of jquery and proper wrapping
I don't know $.fn.code
@BartekBanachewicz yes i was !
on the note :P every popular thing is awesome .. i mean jQuery :P .. microsoft windows .. java !
i was just pulling a subtle sarcasm
why i always fail on sarcasm :-(
@HarryBeasant Why is there
</div>
?
in the middle of the form ?
Oh i removed some stuff that isnt needed
the form is in a modal
7:15 PM
anyone know anything about becoming a registered charitable organization?
@rlemon Not in Canada
I would like it so that rafflemon was able to take donations when you sign up for a raffle. all proceeds go to the charity of your choice.
I don't want to get dinged on my taxes, and if possible (if I were a charity) I would like the donated items to be a tax write-off
as they are again being donated for a 'fund raiser' of types
so SomeKittens decides to start a raffle and raffle off an xbox, the price of the xbox he can then write off on his taxes. SomeKittens could also choose a charity he is running his raffle for: and if anyone donates when signing up for his raffle, those donations go to the charity.
make sense?
that's a LOT of paperwork
that is an alternative to mean.io
7:24 PM
@SomeKittens ohh I am starting to realize that. but what an amazing system eh? I personally would love to see this actually happen.
I am obviously going ahead with it regardless of the charities, but if I could add them in without it being a full time job for me... hell yea!
win win turns into a win win win!
well if anyone has any experience with legalities with charities email me please. I would like to pick your brain.
2
Anyone know why this is borked? jsfiddle.net/k3623
That thai food was offensively spicy today
@RUJordan Were you bitten!? Strip! Prove you weren't bitten.
so in my repo git fetch should bring my local copy upto date with the online repo??
0
Q: Initializing a variable as undefined

stinkycheesemanDoing some refactoring, I noticed an unusual pattern I'm not familiar with. Properties and variables that do not yet have a value are initiated with undefined declared explicitly, despite the fact that value-less variables and object properties would evaluate to undefined anyways: var foo = unde...

@rlemon I need Ubuntu help
so ask ubuntu
;)
hurr hurr
So what's the difference between programmers and stackoverflow?
@RUJordan One's very specific and helps a lot of people, the other exists so people can argue about how nothing currently on the site actually fits the site.
I see O.o
Hello, anybody have experience with instagram api?
@DušanRadojević its damn striaghtforward
then thank you for helping :)
can you answer few questions?
I need to have simple page where user clicks on button that say instagram after that user get popup window with instagram login and after login he get redirected to some page where it shows his images...
is there some clear tutorial about it?
see this:
huh it shortned it
@RUJordan Mainly I'm bitter about being singled out for my perfectly appropriate question here: meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/5654/…
7:50 PM
That whole question is painful:
> How can I make this site more friendly to experts?
just one question, CLIENT_ID ?
what is that?
how can I obtain it
I already registered an app in that api developer pages
Read the link I just posted.
Also if you have an app registered, its on the page for your app.
@SomeKittens damn that was straight callout despite your questions score
I have registered it, it looks that I am too tired, I read that api pages and cant figure out what should I use for client_id?
@DušanRadojević instagram.com/developer/clients/manage you should see your app info?
7:52 PM
@RUJordan Said question hit the frontpage of Hacker News as well.
yes I see it
huh
thanks
I am tired
No problem :D
No way...
Its ok, I think we both are.
my wife delivered us second son :)
7:53 PM
I don't blame you for being pissed man
10 days ago so now it is circus time
^ That whole question
many congratulations! Also good luck with the next 6 months. :D
yeah, thanks :)
7:54 PM
@SomeKittens did you rage out on the thread?
I only read the question
No, I had a lot typed out but realized I was just angry (and not contributing to the conversation) so I never posted it
Good, typing angry is never logical
:)
"Good questions drive users to the site. Here's an example of a bad question. Please ignore that it's got 18,751 views"
the room might lose me, to C# .. I am finding it an incredibly clean language.. though more code writing .. but VS Pro is making it quite simple !
bye bye :D
7:59 PM
Gonna miss you boss
Not like you can't multi-task or anything
Dick.

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