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11:00 PM
I never saw someone browsing without javascript :/
 
me either
i think progressive enhancement sounds really nice
 
brettcvz what are you doing now you're not at Google anymore ?
 
but its too much work to worry about the <1% that don't know how to use a mouse anyway
 
it's like 2% consistently browse without js
but still, you should (for good sake) at least make your site function without js
how it looks... well screw them.
locking them out from it's functionality is another story.
 
well, an ajax only approach would lock them out
 
11:03 PM
not true
you offer a href links.
then in the js you preventDefault() and load the content with ajax.
every page can be served and the content can be indexed (with proper robots.txt)
and you still get the flashbang with modern browsers.
I assume no js means no css [sometimes images] so on the content pages I leave that out.
it is a heavy assumption but 2% can suffer from it.
 
rlemon, memegenerator and IE6 ?
 
just as an example, lets say a user chooses something from a dropdown. their choice changes the contents of another dropdown. if you want to do this without ajax you would need to have the server modify the html document and send it on its way
 
(just a question, don't want to argue)
 
@DieVarDump canvas only app is meant to run 100% in modern browsers
idk about slow machines and old browsers (also i make no money off it)
so support it out the window. too bad soo sad
 
@JeremyPatrick and ?
 
11:07 PM
@JeremyPatrick the dropdown menu selection scenario sucks. because without js there really is limited things you can do there.
 
is it possible to overwrite a function inside of a closure from outside?
 
i'm wanting to get away from the server manipulating html documents
the document is complete and the dom should be manipulated. imo
 
what is your audience
 
an audience with js
 
If you want to make money and provide a real experience, you'll have to have both of them
 
11:08 PM
do you intend to make money off what you produce ?
basically the point is: if you want $$ you have to take time and support the oldest of old hardware and browsers.
it's a sad reality that pisses me off beyond anything else.
 
If you choose the client-side rendering for new browsers, you'll have to have a server-side too when people can't do it client-side
 
then it would be a question of cost analysis
 
yup
 
If your goal is to generate revenue, then literally every scenario must be handled. And any that are not handled is lost revenue and an open door for competition.
 
business 101
 
11:09 PM
if it costs more to reach the 2% than it brings in, you don't do it
 
which is why (@DieVarDump) lememe has no ads... but literally no care to support older browsers
it is a fun, silly project that makes me happy to do
 
@JeremyPatrick Also, if you are serving content, you'll miss search engine visitors
 
So you'll loose money
 
progressive enhancements solve all of this... but scripting this takes time.
 
More with the new semantics tags
 
11:10 PM
yea it sucks not being able to use them and be compliant.
 
'cause search engine surely will refer on some (they already do on hX a etc... )
So if you render all client-side, you'll have maybe content, but no semantics
and semantic matters
 
"Yo dawg, I hurd you like improvement so I improved the web experience for you to improve you user experience... but fuck it you need to support everything from before... sux dawg"
 
^ this is the world we live in
 
well, maybe the 2% is close to retirement..
 
11:13 PM
the more it goes forward, the more you'll see, even in little web agency, one team for current browsers, one team specialized in degradation
 
people will shout "No! you will be stopping XYZ from happening if you don't do ABC" but really they mean "Hey man, protip: if you want to make money you have to basically support Netscape Navigator 4. Sucks and we all hate doing it but it's true."
 
everyone needs to just use chrome
 
lol
V8 FTW
anyways.... time for some diablo
 
rlemon#1805
^ if you play add me
 
11:15 PM
playing skyrim at the moment :-)
 
pfft
 
When you'll be "placed" then you'll be able to put a big red ad saying " we do not support your effing browser anymore, download whateverbrowseryouwantthemtohave for a good experience "
 
no wonder you suck at js
</kidding>
 
i'm no js expert. i like server side
which is why i don't want to modify html documents :-)
 
11:16 PM
you can server-side with js
 
btw always dump your old beers. brinking a 3 day old table sitter is disgusting.
 
yeah, you can
 
@JeremyPatrick introducing nodejs
 
And it depends on what you'Re working but when i worked server side
 
v8 powered server
 
11:16 PM
I had a lot of new DOMDocumentAdapter()
 
ASP.NET + DOM === super shoot me in the effing brain fantastic fun!
 
It's kinda fun
in PHP
 
lol
 
11:17 PM
PHP + DOM also is not fun.
 
my boys finished their first game
 
CodeIgniter DOM functions are hilarious.
 
c# is my favorite language
 
Your boys ?
 
my sons
 
11:18 PM
<?php anchor("url","title","eff you"); ?>
 
mostly my son Jacob, followed a tutorial, then modified it
JS/canvas of course :P
 
@Loktar I tweeted that pic of them developing to my bro. he has a 5yo son. I'm trying to teach my bro js and my hopes is he will pass it to his son.
 
teaching your kids to program Loktar?
 
thats awesome
@JeremyPatrick yeah
 
(hope you don't mind i tweeted the pic... it's on SO which means it's google indexed)
 
11:19 PM
haha no its cool
I have it up on reddit
 
hehe cool
 
my son's name is jacob as well. hes only 10 months old.. but i'll teach him as well :-)
 
so tons of peeps saw it
@JeremyPatrick awesome
yeah its fun to do, a little frustrating too
like hard to know when to help, and when to step in
like for their game I just added the code real quick to target the player.. because a 9 yr/old isnt going to know much about ATAN and angles lol
 
i wrote a game when i was 14.. copy and pasted the same code like 14 times and used a notebook to keep track of my changes. someone should have stepped in and told me what a loop was
 
lol
yeah man.. I remember realizing you could do a=a+1
I was like WTFF!!
 
11:21 PM
lol
 
I was around 9 or so
 
the good ol days
basic was my first language
 
same here
on the c64
 
had some ibm with 20 meg harddrive
the next computer had a 500 meg hard drive... HOLY COW THAT'S A LOT OF SPACE
 
everyone told me i couldn't grow vegetables on my balcony! Now my tomatoes are huge and my cucumber plant just got it's first cucumber (bout 2 inches)
better than my moms and gf's parents and brothers full gardens. :)
i'm quite pleased with my green thumb
</self boasting>
 
11:35 PM
who told you and why did they do that ?
 
a ha! :)

Object.getPrototypeOf($.ui.datepicker)._changeIsFun = function () { alert("oops!"); };
now i don't have to run through the minimizer
 

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