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12:55 AM
Huh. The guy who I helped last night sent me 0.05BTC as a thank you
That's like... $155
 
coolio
 
1:08 AM
Raghav - you should introduce us to generous people like this one :D
 
NO
THEY'RE ALL MINE
 
hahaha! XD
no idea what country these guys are from, but they're good
 
1:20 AM
@RaghavSood ironyyyyy
 
@RaghavSood what is double spending?
And what is a good bit coin app for android?
 
1:51 AM
The new Xbox will be called "Xbox One X"

I guess it can be shortened to "Xbo"
 
so it's the Xbox?
 
2:13 AM
@Code-Apprentice If you have a bitcoin transaction that hasn't been included in a block yet, it's theoretically possible to create another transaction to spend the same bitcoin. Only one will go through, but for a short time both will appear as pending. It's what you use to scam people or fix transactions you created with really low fees that are in limbo
@Code-Apprentice Mycelium is decent, but I would strongly recommend using a paper wallet on for the majority of your bitcoin if you have anything more than 0.1 btc, and keeping an amount you can afford to lose on your phone
Or get a hardware wallet, but that might not be worth the investment if you're just dabbling
 
3:10 AM
Fuck the Pittsburgh Penguins and their stupid Stanley Cup victory.
 
3:59 AM
Why get worked up about sports when you can work on Fragments instead?
2
 
4:19 AM
Good Morning Everyone
 
4:42 AM
Morning
 
@RaghavSood paper wallet? Hardware wallet? Looks like there is more of a learning curve than I thought.
 
Not really
Are you familiar with asymmetric encryption?
Public/private keypair?
I'm gonna assume you are
Crypto currencies rely on that. Public keys are your addresses, and private keys allow you to spend any coins stored in the corresponding public key
 
Yes. But do I have to know that in order to make bit coin transactions?
 
Most online wallets (coinbase, blockchain.info) keep your private key with themselves. This allows them, or anyone who compromises their platform, to spend your coin
 
That sounds like being required to know how to rebuild a transmission in order to drive a car.
 
4:45 AM
By using an app like Mycelium, Electrum, or Bitcoin Core, you maintain control of your private keys. Thus, someone needs to compromise your phone/laptop to spend your coins
Hardware wallets (Ledger and Trezor) store your private keys on a small USB device. The keys are generated on it, and never leave it. Thus, an attacker physically needs your device to spend your coins
 
What is a paper wallet?
 
Finally, paper wallets are nothing but a pub/priv keypair generated on a device that's not connected to the internet, and "printed out" or stored in some physical form (paper, engraved on a rock, whatever). You then send your bitcoin to that address
When you want to spend them, you import the private key into a wallet that is connected to the internet
They're also known as "Cold wallets", mostly used for long term secure storage
Print out the private key and stick it in a bank vault kind of thing
Honestly, for getting started, this is way too much detail
You should be fine with Mycelium and a good passcode on your phone
 
I do not like paper. I avoid printing anything as much as I can.
 
If you start putting in a lot of money into bitcoin, investing in a hardware wallet is not a bad idea
But for just messing around, a regular wallet you control is fine
Just don't leave your coins in an online wallet. That's just a bad idea overall
Also, treat your wallets like keystores. If you forgot the seed sentence or the encryption key, your coins are gone. Don't do that.
3
Don't be Adam
 
Like I said you are teaching me to rebuild the transmission when I only want to learn to drive a car :p
 
4:49 AM
@RaghavSood I'll have mine engraved on a rock, please.
 
Pfft, if my children ever want to touch the driver's seat, they better know how to build a goddamn car
Although in all probability by the time they exist and age enough to drive, you won't be able to buy a human driveable car
 
Raghav: Children, gather round. Here is how you smelt the ore we mined yesterday. Don't worry, we will finish building your car before you reach your death bed.
 
What? We're mining already?! Don't you know mining requires automobiles?
We're starting at the wheel, Apprentice
But only after they discover fire
 
Vulcanize your own rubber for tires?
 
You're getting way too ahead of things. We're yet to even reach wooden chariots
 
4:53 AM
@RaghavSood yah, I read about orphan coins
 
@RaghavSood Bruteforce the damn thing, so your for(long long i = 0; i < ULLONG_MAX; i++) { stringBuilder.append("great "); } stringBuilder.append("Grand children"); stringBuilder.toString(); can spend the money
 
That's very optimistic
 
That's all my compiler allowed me to do
:(
 
The numbers involved in Bitcoin are not Java datatype friendly
You'll need BigInt libraries at the very least
 
true that.
It's been a while since the last time I mined something
I actually made some money out of it
 
4:56 AM
Unlike my goddamn dogecoin
$10 over 4 years
I could literally have made more collecting pennies off the streets
 
dogecoin will prevail
much coin. such wealth. wow.
 
>.<
 
I've tried BTC, LTC and FTC
 
I have BTC, ETH, DOGE, DGB, and WAVES right now
 
Fun fact: My bank account was blocked after I made a transaction to buy LTC once for "security reasons".
 
4:58 AM
Yeah, I just deal in cash for BTC/ETH then convert to altcoins
Banks don't like this stuff, best to stay away
 
They even called me, to ask if it was really me and if I really wanted to do that lol
I know
 
Plus, since the amounts I work with are tiny, cash isn't an issue
Probably gonna not scale well for people doing it in $10k+
But pretty much the only way to do it for those dealing in $500k+
All in all I have maybe $3k in various cryptos right now
Largely because it's all in cryptos
If I'd taken cash, I'd have maybe $1k
 
morning
 
5:18 AM
morning
 
5:53 AM
@RaghavSood you mean for freelancing jobs?
 
Yup
Got paid in BTC by a few people instead of cash
 
@RaghavSood how do you convert cash to crypto? Is there an ATM?
 
You can go through exchanges if you want to do bank->crypto (Coinbase etc). You can use a physical atm for direct cash->crypto, but their exchange rates usually suck. You can use LocalBitcoins for p2p transactions, but you might get stabbed (though probably not if you go with reputable sellers. Basically, do as you would on Craigslists, and if it's too good to be true it's not true).
 
I read a Wired article a few years back where the author switched entirely to bitcoin for a month (maybe more). He even showed a stripper how to set up a wallet on her phone so that he could tip her.
 
Yeah, there have been a few people who try to live entirely on bitcoin
Not feasible in most places though
 
6:07 AM
morning!
 
so it's been ... 10 days since i should have been charged for my gb speed internet.
like, i even got the email with the bill
and my bank account number & all
 
The cops are already enroute
 
which is pretty insecure to put on a email
but well
and no charge to the account done yet
if they happen to forget it, i'm not telling them.
 
Pfft, who needs security when you're broke
 
6:11 AM
yup
i got... enough to pay for half a chainmail, and my mbp monthly fee.
that doesn't eve feed a family of 1 and a cat.
 
@RaghavSood IIRC this was in Silicon Valley
 
wait was there a new eopisode of SV?
 
Read the chat :p
I mean the actual SV
 
aah
not the tv show.
 
I probably should have said Bay Area
Canadians should be like: I live in the Bay Area. The Hudson Bay.
 
6:17 AM
Yay, my Dogecoin are worth a whooping $11 now!
I might as well just retire
 
Also my Ethereum is up like $300
 
Although, absolute dollars is not important. What is the % return?
 
42% for ETH over 5 days
 
Not bad
 
6:19 AM
1179% for Dogecoin over 4 years
 
Can you imagine a savings account with that equivalent APY?
 
apy?
 
ETH 1.9138 ≈ S$1,001.33
What I need, is a business like escrow services
Where I don't need to put up any money
But I can skim btc/eth off other people's inability to trust each other
 
I wish I had learned sooner what a scam savings accounts are. In the USA, when you deposit $1000 banks can loan out $10000. Say they charge an average of 10% interest on that. They make 1k and pay you .1% on your deposit or $1
@CptEric I meant APR, but APY works: annual percentage yield.
 
apr?
> an average of 10%
 
6:26 AM
Annual Percentage Return
 
APY = (1 + APR/n)^n
 
what in hell are those numbers?
10% interest?
 
Or Rate
 
Numerical
 
that's what scam credit companies charge here
 
6:27 AM
Lol
US Credit cards are like 15-30% interest
 
@CptEric 10% per year?
 
per credit
 
Bank loans can be lower. I just chose those numbers for my example to make the math easy.
 
10-30%
30 being the maximum by law
legal banks are not allowed to surpass the eurozone standards
wich in 2017 i believe are at 6.5-7% maximum interest
 
The point is that in my example the bank makes $999 and pays you $1 for the privilege of using your money.
 
6:31 AM
(checked right now) yup, with 9% being the maximum interest rate before banks loose the bank label and are directed as usurer company
 
Reality might differ some from that, but most likely the disparity is even more in the bank's favor.
 
Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood Morning Everyone!!!! :D
 
sup w0mp
 
I have a very small line of credit at my credit union that is like 17%. It is meant for very short term loans, though. Like a week or two...maybe up to a month.
\o womp
 
if a normal bank here in spain went over the 7-9% interest rate, there'd be all pitchforks and torches on the streets
right @W0MP3R ?
i mean people were already to the verge of burning banks because it increased a 1% from 2014 to 2015
 
6:35 AM
we have a 6-8% for long-term clients
 
long term clients here get 2-4%
my micro credits (car and mbp 2016) are at the horrible rate of 7.4%
and that's already
 
don't ask me about interest rate
 
thats too small
 
i don't know :O
 
6:36 AM
macbook pro
 
my dad told me "Do that, get that"
and that's it
 
yeah but your father worked at the bank. what range of years was the one with most troubles?
2014-2015
 
You bought a computer on credit?
 
dunno
i live in a pink bubble
4
 
yeah. i don't have 2k flying around to be spent on a metallic brick full of munchy techie stuff
 
6:37 AM
and someday it will burst, and i will die
 
and apple store spain's interest rates were 8x the rates of my own bank
 
I did that once (bought a computer with credit). Never again.
 
because apple store here works with Cetelem, wich is a credit scamp company
 
Save up and pay cash
 
they offered me a 27.3% on > 12 months or 0% on < 12 months. i told them to fuck off, got my bank to handle the stuff for me
 
6:39 AM
I second C-A
 
i don't have cash to save
 
I never buy on credit that I can't instantly repay
Find ways to make more cash
 
there aren't :(
 
That is because you pay for credit
 
no, that is because i broke down 2 cars in 2 years.
 
6:40 AM
hey! why is my pink bubble message stared?? D:
 
Look at it this way
 
nome of them my fault, tbh. but i'm still paying them
along with the 3rd one
 
@CptEric that certainly does not help
 
If you work even 1 hour a day at $10/hr doing something terrible, that's $70 a week
 
Don't drive then
 
6:40 AM
That's a lot of money if you don't have any extra money lying around
 
only politicians get 10€/h here lol
 
Jk Eric, I know how you feel. My former car made me lost a lot of cash last year.
 
salaries in spain ( and cost of life) are very low
 
Doesn't matter
Even if you make 1 euro a week extra, that's a euro you didn't have
 
but where do i find a 1h/day extra job?
that doesn't exists here XD
 
6:42 AM
I will never buy another car on credit either
 
find somewhere else?
 
unless i satard taking in programming padawans that need help
 
When I first started living on my own I got into this terrible habit of buying stuff because I felt "I'm broke anyways, these $5 coffees won't really make it worse. It's not like if I save this $5 I'll suddenly be much better off and be able to do things with the money"
 
currently i have, left to pay, 800€ of the first car, 1100€ of the second, and 9K of the actual.
 
Eventually I realised that it would take multiple $5s to add up to something worthwhile, and that I need to do it one at a time
 
6:43 AM
plus about 1600€ of the mac
that's all my left-to-pay credit lol
 
CptEric just do stuff in your free time. Make a website or menu app for the local restaurant. Do random stuff on Fiverr. Help W0MP3R hide the Pandas from China in exchange for $$$
 
:O
 
Here's nigh impossible to get a brand new car without a loan or some sort of credit.
or some crazy shit saving
 
The only reason I don't have a car in the US is that I didn't have cash on hand to pay for one in full
Also because I got kicked out of the country, but yeah
 
@RaghavSood that's what i already do on my company. conflict of interest.
 
6:44 AM
The earlier one learns to handle money the earlier one can become rich. Because compound returns.
 
@RaghavSood Trump?
 
> compound returns.
?
 
Nah, stupid bureaucracy
Compound interest
 
obama then.
you mean, a deposit?
 
@CptEric or investing
 
6:45 AM
like, i hand to the bank 5K, and i get 5500 back in X years?
 
Kinda
Don't go that far yet though
 
there's not a bank secure enough to make any of those.
 
Before you start investing, you need to pay off high interest debts
And save up a sizable emergency fund
In case your third car breaks down too because why not at this point
 
yeah already started on that
 
6:46 AM
Also, try it this way
Everytime you go and want to buy something you don't need, don't buy it
But take that money and shove it in a jar or second bank account or whatever
 
Man, you definitely have this figured out better than I did at your age, Raghav
 
A few weeks/months in, check the amount
 
think is, aside from cheap groceries, i don't buy stuff lol
 
You'll suddenly have tons of money which you otherwise wouldn't
 
like, i haven't bought i game in two years.
 
6:47 AM
I don't by stuff he says
 
opens door to Eric's sword and armour room
> i don't buy stuff
 
^ xDD
 
that stuff was already there before i had to care for saving money, in my defense.
i haven't bought new reenactment stuff since last september.
 
@Code-Apprentice I had this whole 4 month Amazon spree my first semester in college that didn't end well :P Straightened up after that
 
i consider them an investment in case of WW IV
 
6:48 AM
Nothing wrong with hobbies, honestly. If you need to spend some money, even in a tight spot, to make sure you can enjoy life that's perfectly fine
Just don't go overboard when you know there's other stuff to look at
 
I played for most of my education with loans. Still paying then off :-(
 
$20 on a sword but you have enough money to eat? That's fine
 
nah i don't have problems with basic stuff
 
$200 on a sword and you find yourself eyeing W0MP3R's paella? Not so fine
 
thing is currently i have just enough to get going
 
6:50 AM
Great, you're already way ahead of most people
 
like, i can save about 60-100$ a month
 
If you find ways to add in even a little bit more cash, you could easily be in a very secure position
 
but i consider that small enough to spend it on a 300-400$ stuff once a year
i should save it, i know
 
^That's the mindset that killed my in my first semester
 
but every time i save up, i end up paying more
 
6:50 AM
A very small amount of money doesn't feel like much in the big picture
 
and @W0MP3R knows.
 
You feel like you'll get more value out of it by spending it
But you won't
 
</3
cancels ragahv's chainmail gift order
 
It's okay. It probably wasn't black anyways
 
i know it??
 
6:51 AM
how many times i've said " hey this month i've got money saved up"
and then a cathastrophe emerged?
XXL sized one
like, "hey i've got 400$ saved" -> car breaks up. "hey i've got 600$ saved" -> fridge dies.
 
I recently heard a story of a man who had enough money to pay cash for a Ferrari. But instead of buying the car, he leveraged his money to buy some real estate that paid for the car in its rental income. Now not everyone can do that at that scale, but the moral of the story is to make your money work for you rather than the other way around.
 
i don't like playing with those stuff
 
oh.. tons of times
 
If you build up your investment fund, it doesn't just have to lie in a shoebox under your bed
 
6:53 AM
investments are very unstable in spain
even real state ones
 
Mate, life is unstable on earth
3
 
the moment you buy anything in spain, it's price is already half you paid. and down the hill we go
 
Investing can maybe come a couple of years down the line
For now, keep it simple
 
i'd hire you to invest for me.
 
Find a freelance job that pays you a bit, and save it up
 
6:54 AM
as long as you don't run.
 
Oh god no that's a terrible idea
I made $20 on stocks
 
"400 dogecoins later".
 
And $700 on cryptocurrencies
 
Next Bernie Madoff here
 
that's more than i've ever made on any investment lol
 
6:55 AM
I'm so risk averse I invest by insisting I get paid in imaginary internet money because I can't bring myself to convert cash into it
 
the only time i've invested correctly, was on a football match bet.
 
Here's what I ended up doing with a friend in college
 
and the only time i've done it.
 
She was terrible with money. Got a credit card, maxed it, didn't pay it back and all that.
 
Betting != investing
 
6:55 AM
So we opened a new bank account
And cut up her debit card
 
Although they often seem similar
 
And I changed the online password
And the money from her campus job went into that account
And we only checked it after a year
 
i see it the same way, you input cash on some growing tendency, expecting a bigger return in the end
 
That was nearly $2k which would've been makeup if we left her to her choices
 
nice
 
6:56 AM
After actually seeing $2k of hard cash in hand, she's become considerably better at saving up
Getting to that mindset is the hard part
 
I still struggle with it
It is so easy to tell yourself that you need something right now
When in fact, that is a lie
 
Yup
I have a list of things I really really want but don't need
I also have a price next to each
I refuse to buy it until it is for less or equal to that price
 
At least 99.9% of the time any way
 
For everything else, I look at it, wait a week, see if I still need it
I never do
This might not work out in the future
"Sir, you need a new heart"
"Let me think about it"
2
 

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