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fge
8:00 PM
I suck at web sites... And as such I have fundamental flaws in designing a "full stack"
 
So @Kylar you are an architect?
I am also a web developer, by the way
 
Software Architect, I suppose...
@fge: yeah, all I do is servers
 
@Kylar That's what I meant. Abstraction is something we call :P
 
I used to be a UI/UX dev, but haven't done it in like... 10 years
I think my business card says I'm a Forensic Cryptoscatologist
 
fge
Eww
Does it really say that?
 
8:02 PM
Let me look
 
Yes it does on your twitter : twitter.com/kylar
 
fge
<-- has just begun in the Java professional world after too long a time spent on pure systems engineering
 
My business cards do actually say that
Hmm how do I post a picture
 
You upload a picture
 
nice
1 sec
 
fge
8:12 PM
Well well well
Meh, I can't resist
I want to retranscript the intellectual reasoning which led to the Higgs...
But that would be long
 
OR
You can watch a couple episodes of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and feel better about yourself.
 
fge
Sorry but no
I prefer more intellectually challenging endeavours :p
 
Then drink for a while. That's where the real genius lies. The Ballmer Peak.
 
fge
I'm really not joking; I know how it all came about
 
Not understanding a single thing
 
fge
8:15 PM
Well, do you know about quantum gauge theory?
 
@Mr.777 me either
 
:D
@fge you should start teaching us the basics
May be create a new room named Quantum mechanics? ;)
 
fge
No, not worth it
 
Well, if Homer can figure the universe is probably doughnut shaped...
 
:O why not?
Wow we have one more scientist
Gem :D
 
8:17 PM
@Mr.777 Isn't there an SE site for that? :P
hello mr.777 ^^
 
@Mr.777 I was just ignoring. Thought old people talk insane :P
 
There might be but is fge there?
lol @Ita
 
fge
Basically, the principle is this: the gauge theory helped define what is called the "standard model"
 
"standard model" of insanity?
 
 
8:18 PM
^^ @Kylar seems to be enjoying the new upload feature :P
 
fge
No, the standard model of particle physics
 
lol yeah
 
@ItachiUchiha I just posted physics.stackexchange.com
and it popped up
 
Is Uni still RO?
 
@ItachiUchiha It's autoboxing
 
8:19 PM
@Kylar I know you did, but the sentence was apt ;)
 
All SE sites do that
 
If yes, we can ask him to update room tags to quantum physics may be?
 
@gem I am aware of the fact
 
Ooo I see
 
8:20 PM
(:
 
fge
And the standard model defines basically all particles implied in three of the 4 known fundamental interactions: electromagnetism, weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force
 
you learn something new every day~~
 
fge
The quantum gauge theory helped theorize, and then find, the force mediators of the weak and strong nuclear forces -- W+, W-, Z0 (weak), gluons (strong)
 
But wait, isn't doughnuts a fundamental force
Is Homer a liar
My world view is crumbling
 
o_O
 
fge
8:21 PM
As to the electromagnetic force, the mediator was already known since 1905: the photon
(it is, after all, Einstein who first theorized that "light" was also a particle)
 
That's a lie. Light is a wave. I read it on the internet.
 
Who's einstein? :P
@Kylar Wave of particles ;)
 
fge
The theoretical model was there before the W* and Z0, or gluons, were found
 
He's that guy from The Odd Couple
 
Sometimes I wish I should have never studied science...
 
fge
8:23 PM
However, there was a problem
 
@ItachiUchiha Why?
Do you guys think, einstein was real genious?
 
> As to the electromagnetic force, the mediator was already known since 1905: the photon
^^ What is he talking about?
 
I really don't know
 
Without Photons, we wouldn't have Star Trek's Photon Torpedos!
 
It's all going above my head, trust me :P
 
8:24 PM
It's basically a big jar of photons that we launch at people
 
Okay so we have 3 scientists
 
In space
 
fge, Gem and Kylar
Thanks God, Uni isn't here :D
 
fge
@ItachiUchiha electromagnetism, that is, electricity, hear from radiators, light in your eyes, UV, infrared... ALL OF THEM are photons
ALL
 
I'm more "Science-ey" than Scientific
 
fge
8:24 PM
Wait, you didn't even know that?
 
tis said that when someone asked Einstein what it felt like to be the most intelligent man in the world, he supposedly answered "I don't know, you'd have to ask Nicholas Tesla"
 
@fge know what?
 
Why aren't Astronomers called "Sky-entists"
 
XD
 
fge
@Mr.777 that photons were responsible for electricity
 
8:25 PM
@fge Trust me I dont
 
fge
Or anything radio, or UV
WiFi, etc
 
@fge woah! Protons without atoms?
 
fge
All of these use photons
 
Nope
Aah got it
 
But are the neutrons and electrons lonely?
 
fge
8:25 PM
Well, that's how it is
 
So, i can see photons everywhere now
 
<--- Opens up his school science notebooks
 
fge
@Kylar even neutrons are not atomic
@Mr.777 but you do
 
@ItachiUchiha Do you still have those?
 
fge
And not only visible light
I thought it was common knowledge
 
8:26 PM
<--- Keeper of books
 
@fge Not common for me
@ItachiUchiha Thats awesome
 
fge
Well, it wasn't for me
 
Ahaan
 
fge
(at the time when I was at school)
 
@fge At that time, may be I even knew (well i am not so sure)
 
fge
8:27 PM
Really, I thought that by 2015 this would be taught to pupils before they even reached high school
 
TL;DR
 
fge
But it looks like I was wrong
 
@Kylar What's too long?
 
Sorry guys, my ADD is kicking in. I'll check back later.
this whole convo. Plus I have some meetings
BBIAB
 
@fge I am 28 years old dude :P
 
fge
8:28 PM
@Kylar basically, photons are responsible for everything you "see", but also for UV, infrared, WiFi, GSM, you name it
All of these
@Mr.777 and I am older than that
 
@fge How much older?
 
fge
...
 
@fge I am keen to know, you never disclosed it :P
 
fge
I'm 39
 
... (3 years?) :D
Oh okay
May be if I am 39, I will be that genious too? :P
 
8:29 PM
@fge ---- @Kylar is still the oldest :P
 
Kylar is?
49?
 
fge
And we are talking physics here which have been known since the beginning of the 30s
 
:P
@fge Yeah but when you were 28, did you know all that?
 
fge
And you are telling me that you haven't been taught that at school?
 
8:30 PM
@Ita, how old are you?
 
fge
@Mr.777 yes I did
But not thanks to school
 
@Mr.777 younger than you :P
 
Ohhh then you are real genious
@ItachiUchiha How much younger?
 
fge
No I am not
 
@fge Seems to me
 
8:30 PM
I'm 40
 
fge
Had I been a genius I'd have known that much earlier than that
 
@Unihedro is the only genius here ;)
 
@fge It's never too late, remember? :P
@Kylar I agree on that too
 
fge
Well, anyway
Back to the point
 
Two geniouses. @Uni and @fge
 
fge
8:32 PM
So, what is commonly called as the "electromagnetic force" is in fact also responsible for heat out of radiators etc
And the mediator of this force is the photon
Now, the quantum gauge theory had also theoricized the mediators for the weak (W+, W-, Z0) and strong (gluons) nuclear forces
(for a practical point of view: the weak nuclear force is how nuclear reactors produce energy)
However, there was a problem
Physics theorists noticed that if the gauge theory was right (and it was, since experiments uncovered all "mediators", which are called "bosons"), then all mediators were to have a mass of 0
Which is not what was experimentally found; for instance, the W* and Z0 bosons have a huge mass (compared to a proton for instance)
 
May be we should start an open source project to contribute to PHYSICS
 
fge
And here, there were two possibilities to solve the dilemma; as Étienne Klein beautifully puts it, the two possibilities were an ontologic one ("the laws are right; it is just that we don't interpret xx correctly") or a legislative on ("the laws are wrong; it needs to be changed")
And note that when it comes to "the higgs", the "xx" in the sentence above refers to the concept of mass itself
OK so far?
 
@fge Whom are you asking the question?
 
fge
Not only that, but by a bouncing ball effect, it also meant that all fundamental particles of the standard model were also to have a mass of zero
Anyone who is listening
 
Ahh.. ok!!
 
fge
8:40 PM
And among these fundamental particles there is the photon (OK, we know the mass is 0), the electron (not 0!), the quarks (fundamental constituents of neutrons and protons -- not 0!), etc
Well, do ask
I believe I now have a good enough knowledge to be able to answer ;)
 
Lets get back to code..
I have a question related to ...
 
in Stack Overflow 2015 Moderator Election Chat, 53 secs ago, by Unihedro
The kind and motivational comments I get about my participation on site makes everything worthwhile. ^~^
Thanks Mr.777 :)
 
fge
Well, too bad, I'll have tried
 
@Unihedro :)
I just said what I think about you
 
fge
It's a fascinating story, and worth an in depth explanation
(not that "in depth"; I can't rewrite the quantum gauge theory)
 
8:42 PM
@fge See, everyone is here, but no one dared to respond to your question.
 
and Kylar too :p
 
fge
@ItachiUchiha and that doesn't help
I really wish to make you understand this because it's truly fascinating
Understanding this also gives insights as to what the Planck wall is, for instance
 
:(
 
Don't make me curious
 
fge
What do you think physics, or maths, are all about? Curiosity
Even programming is, to some degree
And, by extension, computer science
 
8:44 PM
@fge I just know that Maths is mother of all sciences
Isn't that enough?
 
I love science, but my scope is different from fge's in that I love and pursue every aspect of it, while fge looks at interesting parts. That's why I'm not participating in their monologues.
 
@Mr.777 I disagree
 
fge
Well, no, maths doesn't really have a foot in philosophy for one
 
@ItachiUchiha Why not?
 
fge
And the Higgs boson is a perfect example of what is called a "negative philosoĥic discovery"
Precisely because it redefines what mass is; that is, mass is not a fundamental property of matter
My tentative explanation was cut off for lack of interest, but this was the beginning of why it is so, and why the Higgs led to that very fundamental conclusion
 
8:47 PM
@Mr.777 There are different branches of science and few have no relation whatsoever with mathematics..
 
@ItachiUchiha Then that's not science at all, if it doesnt involve maths
 
fge
@ItachiUchiha you are wrong; a very large majority of sciencitific disciplies cannot do without maths
 
@Mr.777 Disagree again
 
fge
In fact, none can
 
@fge I said few
 
fge
8:48 PM
Biology cannot do without for instance
Even sociology cannot do without
 
About phiosphy, science is a branch of philosphy, no?
 
fge
Economics cannot do without; physics cannot do without
 
Maths is artificial. It is the human way of representing abstractions in models.
Science is natural. It is the study of things.
 
fge
@Unihedro yet maths modelize the "material world"; this has been known since Galileo
Wait, you didn't even know that? :p
 
@fge Me?
 
fge
8:49 PM
No, @Unihedro
Math may be "artificial", but its relevance to "our world" goes way deeper than you might think
And the first to find that out is Galileo
15th century
And he has never been proven wrong, ever since that time
In fact, the most advanced science of the 21st century, today, would not even exist without mathematics
 
Just because it's relevant to the nature doesn't mean it reasons the nature or is based off it.
 
fge
And by "most advanced", I mean, of course, quantum physics as a whole
 
A person with so much knowledge is really a genius
 
fge
@Unihedro yes it's a hard FACT
Now, why it is so is the mystery
 
Actually, it's spelled "genius".
 
8:52 PM
Oh :P
 
Facts are correct by definition. What doesn't reason doesn't speak as fact.
 
fge
Well, you know, maths are all about reasoning
 
@uni go back to sleep
 
fge
And they do explain the world
Should you like it or not
That's a fact
And, again, quantum physics are the best example of it
 
@ItachiUchiha *glares*
 
fge
8:54 PM
The model for them is purely mathematic, and it defies our common, "layman" human knowledge -- there are no pictural representations of quantum physics, there cannot be
 
I like how you mitigated the stance about facts onto maths.
 
fge
How did I mitigate?
Every, and I mean every, physical phenomenon, or biological phenomenon, or physiological, you name it, is ultimately explained by maths
That's how it is
I didn't invent it, it is a fact
 
"yes it's a hard FACT" -> si: "What doesn't reason doesn't speak as fact." -> "Well, you know, maths are all about reasoning"
 
fge
About the Higgs again: it has been theoricized, in 1964, by Higgs, Englert and Brout in a purely mathematical calculation
And 48 years after, it was found
And how does that contradict what I said?
Just live with it
Maths are "just it"
No one knows why, but that's how it it
 
fge
8:58 PM
Now, don't say that you learn nothing in school, will you?
 
Sorry?
 
fge
Mr Higgs has proven you wrong already -- he's a universitarian boffin ;)
 
:P
 
fge
And he made a more fundamental discovery than all of us here, combined, will ever make in our entire lifetimes
 
Send me some of that coffee or whatever you're drinking.
 
8:59 PM
@fge you drink?
 
fge
No
I just state facts
 
@Unihedro me too ;)
 
fge i meant coffee
 
fge
Coffee, yes, plenty
 
I see
 
9:00 PM
There must be a secret blend for one to get as enthusiastic as fge right now. I'd really need it.
^^
 
fge
And I truly regret not having been able to pursue a scholar education
Unfortunately I didn't have the choice
 
@Unihedro You slept only 3 hours, that's why you aren't that much enthsiast at this time as you normally are :D
 
Well, in my defense
 
@fge But you can try now
 
fge
But anyway; just for "fun" I can make a session about quantum mechanics and the Higgs boson
 
9:02 PM
@fge Yes please
 
fge
Not sure about the interested candidates though :p
 
But what if someone doesn't even know the basics?
 
fge
Doesn't matter; the basics are actually conceptually simple
 
... I was forced to attend a stupid event all day and I hate having my day wasted like that so I coded all the night, and I forgot to make meal so I microwaved ramen noodles, and it's not like anyone would help me out with that
 
@fge You have @Ita, @Kylar, @Uni, @Gem and @Mr.777
 
fge
9:03 PM
Not sure
 
Eh, exclude me. I gotta sleep.
 
59 secs ago, by Mr.777
But what if someone doesn't even know the basics?
 
@fge I would be more interested in a session related to Java or Factory patterns in OOPs :P
 
^^^ This was supposed to be for my quoted message (autoboxed message :P)
 
@Ita: At this state they might burst into Higgs excitement in the.middle :D
 
9:04 PM
^^ True that :P
 
Anyone working for elance as backend java dev?
 
@fge: But before I go, I have a short story.
 
whats elance?
~ grabs pillow for bedtime story from @uni
 
When I was younger, I possessed a talent in mathematics. I didn't tell anyone about it because they wouldn't understand me, but my parents got me to a contest for the Olympian Maths sessions anyway because I told them I was interested in it.
 
9:08 PM
are they hiring?
 
Yes they are
i am not sure, if it's closed now or not but I've been :P
 
Actually, there were also courses I attended, but they were nothing for me.
 
@Unihedro How did you score?
 
So the day went like that. I enjoyed my time doing the papers, even though I didn't do well in scoring.
One of the times, in those public examinations, I got a question on the papers about multi-dimension maths.
Heck, it was impossible.
 
I slept 4h tonight because a) we went to bed at 4:30 and b) neighbor had a lovely drilling in the wall with powertools session at 8:30, then we spent 3h walking through heavy forest then 2h on a meeting. I'm so tired I don't know what to do :')
 
9:12 PM
But I wouldn't admit to failing, so I started rationalizing the concept. I spent an entire day grasping a new concept from scratch, of which I have no experience prior. Part of it was imagining things, then I stopped. I put down my pen and stared at the ceiling.
In the public examination, I was doing just that; Suddenly, I had a realization. Of which I am an insignificant part of everything, and that what I understand is not enough to grasp anything. The rest of the competition blurred away. The rest of the entire day blurred away. But I never attended public examinations since. It was remarkable, the thoughts, like finally understanding a piece of an impossible puzzle.
Oh, and by the way, I eventually solved that problem by myself, thanks to the Internet.
It's hard to explain. Like seeing huge soldiers all lined up with no end, but so huge that what you can see from any perspective are not enough to see any part more than details.
Night.
 
@Gemtastic Practice android. I am loving it ;)
 
@ItachiUchiha I figured what my app is gonna be at least
 
... If you expected something more interesting, I'm sorry.
 
@Unihedro I am keen, as to, what kind of enlightenment struck you?
@Gemtastic Nice ;) Care to brief me?
 
fge
@Unihedro and that would be?
Ohwell, anyway
My fascination for quantum physics just won't go away and I believe I can explain it well enough
 
9:22 PM
@ItachiUchiha It's just gonna be a very simple app that calculates distance in various traffic situations; like if you travel at x km/h and you look at your phone for 2 seconds, you will have traveled y meters without seeing what's going on in front of you, and if you're driving on an icy road and paying full attention, about how far will you go from registering the danger and coming to a full stop?
 
HAMMERTIME!
 
Traffic safety
 
fge
@Gemtastic that's a typical problem for statistical mathematics
 
@CapricaSix ?
 
If I have time, I will try to make an option where it lists all the estimated distances given the weather at your current location.
@fge typical problem?
 
fge
9:24 PM
Yes, typical
 
Sam

HAMMERTIME err.. something like that.

Feb 18 '14 at 2:29, 25 minutes total – 198 messages, 10 users, 9 stars

Bookmarked Feb 18 '14 at 2:54 by ɥʇǝS

 
@fge Could you please explain why that has anything to do with my app since no statistics at all are involved in it
Only simple math
 
fge
You are in a system with many individual entities, let's say, n; therefore the calculation of the behavior of each individual entity according to the behavior of the n-1 other entities becomes "too big to compute" (maybe quantum computing will bring a solution to that, just not now)
 
Hey, i trying to write a client for some social network, and this social network allows only 3 requests per second. If requests > 3 it giving "Too much requests per second". Can anybody help me?
 
@Sam lol
 
fge
9:26 PM
Therefore, you can only reason with approximations here; and what you have to help is Bernouilli's law on big numbers, or Markhov chains
 
I'm sorry but that's not relevant at all to my app. There are no statistics and there's no room for that large a variety. There are already data on average math equations to use for this
 
fge
There are statistics involved as soon as the number of individual entities you have to deal with is large enough; and "large" can be surprisingly low
 
It's a simple app, I don't know if you know what simple means, but it does not involve doing scientific tests on what traction the rubber on a goodyear tire vs all the other brands are.
 
lolz
 
BTW, fge is right about what he said
@Gem you just are not following him
 
9:30 PM
@Mr.777 I have no idea what he's going off about while making things more complicated.
I'm not even gonna pretend I do.
To me, it's as if I said "I'm gonna build a snowman!" and he starts talking about the density and velocity of snowflakes as they fall depending on a fractal pattern deciding the snowflakes unique shape and I need to find the equation for how snowflakes form.
And I imagine rolling three balls of snow together, put some rocks and a carrot as a face, maybe some twigs for arms....
 
@fge I just read that light is of dual nature
 
Everything I'm gonna use in my app you can find in your average learn to drive book
 
It's a wave as well as particle
@Gemtastic Good luck
 
except this app does the calculations for you
@Mr.777 Since I'm stupid, I might need it
 
@Gemtastic No one is stupid
 
9:37 PM
<--- Can't find anymore questions to answer
 
@ItachiUchiha You asian? (Here is a question)
 
@Mr.777 I am, apparently :P
Since I don't even see any relevance to what fge is talking about in relation to my stuff
 
@Mr.777 I meant questions on SO :P
 
@ItachiUchiha :P
 
@ItachiUchiha well, technically, that IS a question on SO, it doesn't generate any rep though ;P
 
9:39 PM
Okay, let me guess, you japanese @Ita?
@Gemtastic See you are not stupid ;)
 
@Mr.777 I rather assume I am and prove myself wrong than think I'm not and be wrong
 
fge
9:50 PM
@Mr.777 that is only one side of the "reality" of quantum physics
"particle-wave duality" is a term originally coined by Paul Dirac but it doesn't account for quantum state superposition
And the dual slit experiment is the most simple experiment proving that
 
@fge May be, okay
 
fge
Dirac's analogy stands for one slit open only
That is, out of two possible quantum states |A> and |B>, it accounts for either of them
But it won't account for |A + B> which is also a possible state -- and what happens when both slits are open
And that is the strength of quantum mechanics, and its fundamental "iconoclast" nature
(and, if one delves into the philosophic realm, the strongest, as of date, "negative philosophic discovery")
(the second one being the Higgs boson, which tramples at the root the link that philosophy makes between mass and matter)
And by the way, quantum superposition is at the core of quantum computing
I tell you, quantum physics is truly fascinating
 
I take your word on that
 
fge
Actually I may be mistaken; it may be De Broglie who made that analogy
 

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