« first day (174 days earlier)      last day (4998 days later) » 

13:00
ewww., can we cut 1 and 2 pls?
i think 4 is already an awesome idea :)
I can see it now:
Idea: none
Implementation Details: none
Profit Projections: $44 million per year
Exit Strategy: none
Work Required: none

Ok banks, please give us our $44 million per year.  kthnxbai
 Signed: Your friendly neighborhood bank
hehehe
yeah, I get lots of mails from startups from nigeria having the same idea ;)
@ircmaxell that's so smart !
13:05
Hey, if it works for them
yeah
sigh...
I was trying to figure out why a site showed me "0 results" for pretty much every search query .. but their js is broken in opera so they don't actually search
Well, use a real browser :-P
(which is my canned answer for any issues with any other browsers than either FF or Chrome)
Well, i tried. Now I'm back to using the webDevEnv also know to sometimes being able to render html
I find chrome annoying - it automatically hogs my network for updates. I mean, Firefox does that, but at least you can disable it. I can't find anything in Chrome that disables auto-updating
Has one of you two decided if silex-project.org is sane yet?
It's @fabpot / SF2C so it might be
13:19
BEHOLD!!!
class Db {
    public function __construct($host, $user, $pass) {}
}
class Gateway
{
    public function __construct(Db $db) {}
}
$config = array(
    'Db' => array('localhost', 'user', 'pass'),
    'Gateway' => array('&Db')
);
$fetchInstance = function($dependency) use ($config) {
    static $instances = array();
    $reflector = new ReflectionClass($dependency);
    $args = array();
    foreach ($config[$dependency] as $key => $dependency) {
        if (substr($dependency, 0, 1) === '&') {
            if (!isset($instances[$dependency])) {
@Gordon please say you copied that from somewhere else and not their docs
@edorian no, i just coded that to see if it works :)
@Gordon - it works?
doesnt fit in a tweet though
@rick well, it works for that config above, but im not sure id suggest using that
@Gordon: You should use a DSN
13:22
huh? the db is a dummy
@Gordon - Does this means that the only thing we need is just a parameter in construct()?
HOLY SHIT
@Gordon i like
@Gordon And...? It's a design issue, no?
@Gordon - why shouldn't we use it, again?
@Christian no, its not. its a mini DIC. the classes are just completely bogus. the closure is the interesing part
13:24
I mean it's crazy and wrong and everything but it's doing it wrong the cool way
@rick mainly because i hacked that in the past twenty minutes to see if it works ;)
@Gordon - does it go fast though? I haven't got any experience at all with reflectors
just the line ` $GLOBALS['fetchInstance'], ` makes it amazing
@rick I didnt test anything. cant tell
recursing a closure by calling the variable it's store in
13:26
@eodrian i tried __FUNCTION__ but it would say (Closure)
@Gordon I see
thats so stupid that just has to work
make it take a function as a constructor parameter too
eh, i cant do static $self = $GLOBALS['fetchInstance']; ?
but i can use global $fetchInstance
this:
require_once __DIR__.'/silex.phar';
does this mean I can compile everything to a single archive?
yes
not compile but rather "store"
13:32
shits in excitement
eww, what's that smell?
how do you compress things into PHAR though? is this it: pear.php.net/manual/en/pyrus.commands.package.php
what people usually do is put all their classes in the .phar and package an autoloader that takes care of transparently loading them
13:34
it requires PHP 5.3 though
@rickchristie thats something different. Thats creating an installable php/pear package
But yeah, .phar requires 5.3
anyone knows about a good distributable server?
the question is, do we still need index.php if we already stored everything in PHAR?
so that people could run PHP apps on their desktop
@ChristianSciberras there is something I've seen used for packaging resumes as a "local webserver" but i don't remember the name
13:38
@ChristianSciberras - I think, with C#/Visual Studio, you can create a simple app that runs bat files from XAMPP - I dunno any distributable server, I find vertrigo.sourceforge.net to be lightweight
13:50
posted on April 08, 2011

In a new post to his blog Kevin Schroeder asks a simple question - why do you use PHP? In one or two words, please comment to answer this question. Why do you use PHP? So far, answers have included "the large community", "ease of development", "portability", "versatility" and the "power" the language offers. Leave your own comment on the post to share your thoughts with Kevin and others i

Because it sucks
@ChristianSciberras You could try using WAMP. This is a Windows app that bundles Apache, PHP, and MySQL together.
how to i do buttons again?
(not in chat but on SO)
<button name="Foo"/>?
I use PHP because it's quick and easy to get a web application up and running.
13:55
off for dinner, see you guys. Thanks for all the help!
later
@ircmaxell I though there was formatting for [ALT] and things like that
<kbd>alt</kbd>
0
A: Code complete styling for overridden and implemented methods in Netbeans

edorianWhen creating methods using alt + insert Netbeans respects the language specific formating you set in: Tools -> Options -> language : php -> category : braces Just change those values to "new line" and it will create the methods like you want it to. For me having "method" at "same li...

Maybe you can't use it in a chat room.
Or do you need to use this style of formatting in an answer?
fair enough
I can't stand code-completion anyway
I turn it off
14:06
It's too bad you can't view the markup code for a given answer.
@MichaelAngstadt You can, hit edit
If you have the edit button you can
Yeah if you have 500000000000000 reputation.
But it sucks if you don't, because thats the time where you need it
only like 2k I think
14:07
Oh that's not too bad I guess..
@edorian Exactly.
You need less than that to "suggest edits"
Oh wait, I do have an edit link.
It works with 58 rep on serverfault
Ah yes, it will be put in a queue for approval
14:10
yeah, and it needs TWO people to approve it
even so everyone that CAN approve it could make the edit HIMSELF, ALONE
that really bugs me
right
And you can't make an edit while another is pending
but you can reject it and make one yourself
takes 2 rejects
right
It that worth complain about on meta
can't find a duplicate
I think it's good that not anyone can directly edit a question or answer.
14:14
yes, but it should only take one +2k user to approve an edit
since they are trusted with editing anyways
You look at Wikipedia and random people will randomly edit pages. Wikipedians are good at reverting these edits, but I think policing all the SO questions would be harder because there are so many.
Yeah, I think one is enough.
And once you have 2k rep, it means that you've spent a considerable amount of time contributing to SO, which means it's likely that you will not make abusive edits.
@ircmaxell are you sure one can't edit while there is a edit vote pending?
Hi there @christianstuder
@edorian That sounds really restrictive.
They should increase it to like 5.
sigh
@edorian not sure
14:33
Afternoon
God I hate verizon
@Gordon outch
she's arguing with me over contract term. I said we cannot sign more than a 1 year term. She's trying to convince me to go with a 3 year. No. It's off the table. But you get all these great benefits
I finally hung up on her
Michael - I'm using it even right now. What I need is a ready-to-run portable server.
I've been considering writing up one myself.
define portable
14:40
installess, no registry stuff
I've done it with XAMPP
requires some tweaking, but it can be done
I couldn't get that done though :(
*couldn't
I have it setup right now to run from a cd with no installs
how big is it?
(in terms of file size)?
about 30mb or so IIRC
14:43
what does xampp do though?
how does it run apache and this sort of thing?
I wrote a pair of custom start scripts to boot them without install
it loads Apache and MySQL
0
Q: 2 people to approve an edit each could have made on their own?

edorianWhen approving edits on questions/answers it strikes me as odd that two people are required to approve an edit while each of those +2k users would be able to edit everything on their own. This can get annoying when someone has suggested an (valid) edit and I want to further edit other things in ...

@ChristianSciberras: here's the startup script: pastebin.com/973cZ2VT
The rep graph went away notices
sadface
14:47
Thanks a bunch @ircmaxell!!
Yay, highcharts
And here's the stop script: pastebin.com/YXwZMpCh
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...hhhhhhh
Single file php CI server: github.com/fabpot/Sismo
Cal' trolling?
Nah, it's a decent article, but it's... umm... I'm at a loss for just about everything
Limitations

Sismo is small and simple and it will stay that way. Sismo will never have the following:

    a queue (if a project is already being built, newer commits are ignored);
    a web interface for configuration;
    metrics support;
    plugin support;
    other SCM support;
    slaves support;
    built-in authentication.

... and probably the feature you have in mind right now and all the ones you will think of later on ;)
the last line is pure gold
14:54
i saw that thing two days ago.. its a joke
@ChristianSciberras There's a website that creates portable versions of many different applications...I forget what it's called though.
@MichaelAngstadt Microsoft?
These versions do not require any sort of installation to the registry
So, unless I'm mistaken, Sismo is a replacement for Phing and Ant?
14:55
@Robik Yes, for Windows.
given that fabpot must have +10 projects on his local machine that all need their testsuites executed all the time i can see him wanting something like that
I mean, portable = micro, soft = shit, Microsoft
@ircmaxell It's a cron that runs phpunit and alerts out
Right, but I you can't do the same with ant/phing?
14:56
that runs phpunit or what symfony1 used
@ircmaxell but but.. pretty colors!
yeah, fair enough
I think it's a nice idea
Honestly? I'd rather have it as a report generator plugin for phpunit
Then again I'd replace my git-push.sh with phpunit && real-git-push.sh but I don't have to run the SF2 testsuite locally all the time
@MichaelAngstadt portableapps.com or something
either case, this have to be somewhat custom
anyway, I'm off
see you later guys
15:00
@ChristianSciberras Yes, that's it.
Bye
What's up PHP guys
?
He there
I just heard that PHP is a language for poor people?
Is that true and how?
because it's free
free open source software
no if one uses PHP it doesn't mean one is poor
15:04
Yes, because none of us can afford to pay for ASP.NET, so we decided to go with a lesser language
Oh that's hwy
you dont have to pay expensive license fees
Frfree software usually is better than proprietary software
(sarcasm btw)
hwy => why
15:05
but, PHP sucks anyway
if you want to build cool stuff use Ruby on Rails
or Python
is not even getting started with this discussion
I don't thing there is a good market demand for Ruby and Python
there is
a huge one
btw, StackOverflow is written in ASP.net MVC
which basically is a Rails ripoff
15:06
sigh
Isn't ASP.net from Microsoft?
PHP has cakephp et al
Everyone who have any idea to implement they are choosing PHP
PHP has Symfony which is awesome.
Zend is good then CakePHP
15:07
Shakti: no, php is mainly for people who cannot run their own server
PHP have more Frameworks.
Ok, let's stop this discussion right here
@denysonique No, that sounds more like ASP..
@ircmaxell +1
15:08
No it is not I have developed many application and they have their own server
I will personally not stand for a flame war with absurdly generic statements
@ircmaxell this aint a war, these are facts
Nor will I stand for a religious argument.
This is not war
ASP.net vs PHP is comprassion like Apple vs Pear
15:09
@Robik but most of the people will always compare it this way
All I will say, is from my standpoint, let's stop this discussion right here. It's heading down a path that's not very good
@ircmaxell maybe /ignore -- if it works here
$room->setMode('harmony');
Comprassion, comprassion these which like PHP more will use php, these which like ASP will use ASP. What are that wars/flames for?
room.mode :war
heh
but nvm
15:10
If it's a constructive discussion, that's fine
More like $room->mode = "war"
but so far I have not seen that in here
anyway, I programmed in PHP so I know what I am talking about, and you guys do not stick with only PHP, try out other technologies that are out there, and you will find the one that suits you the best
You can take it like $room->mode="share knowledge"
@deny: Like it
/j #rails
15:12
Oh btw. Welcome to the php room @ShaktiSingh
I never used Rails before.
well, you can literally create a blog in 5 min in it
@ShaktiSingh For someone with +7k rep I can't remember seeing you around much. Did you leave for a while?
yeah, the enterprise application you always wanted to have
How many websites out there use Rails?
15:13
many
@edori: I am not the fen of room chatting and I am there today because I reached at the reputation cap today
twitter doesnt anymore
e.g. GroupOn, yell.com etc
@Gordon twitter does still use Rails
Is it only for designing websites or can you write client side apps in it too?
@denysonique Not for the main frontend
15:15
@MichaelAngstadt both
@MichaelAngstadt but mainly server side
anyways, i dont see how this will lead to anything constructive. the entire discussion started wrong.
there are some packages that turn rails apps into desktop ones
@denysonique That's cool.
@ircmaxell you took it the other way around
@ircmaxell Rails front-end, scala back-end
just some parts of the backend
so, I have doubt in my mind from year I am still not clear about this
you guys can share you exp.
15:18
> Last week, we launched a replacement for our Ruby-on-Rails front-end: a Java server we call Blender. We are pleased to announce that this change has produced a 3x drop in search latencies and will enable us to rapidly iterate on search features in the coming months.
@ShaktiSingh :) I see
@ShaktiSingh fire ahead
In college days My friends talking with each other
that the programmer's life is not much
> To ensure a high quality of service while introducing Blender into our system, we are using the old Ruby on Rails front-end servers as proxies for routing thrift requests to our Blender cluster. Using the old front-end servers as proxies allows us to provide a consistent user experience while making significant changes to the underlying technology.
> In the next phase of our deploy, we will eliminate Ruby on Rails entirely from the search stack, connecting users directly to Blender and potentially reducing latencies even further.
and it is between 25-30 age maximum
@Gordon hmm, since last week
15:20
you can not do coding after you reached 30 years of age
is that true?
Not in the least @ShaktiSingh
I am still confused what will do after 30 years of age?
@ShaktiSingh I hope not. I don't want to stop coding. :(
@ShaktiSingh The people i respect most in programming are all over 30
it's just that by that point a lot of developers either move up, move on or take a more senior position doing more architecture and systems-design after a decade of experience.
15:21
@denysonique yeah, well. you gotta keep up with news
I think as you get older, you are pushed more into management.
and i personally know at least 20 people over 45 that still are coding. Most people that age move up into management or do more customer interaction, some architecture
@ircmaxell Yeah, more leadership-like positions.
@ircmaxell you should try going with a greater language like ASP. I herd SQL server is the best.
That doesn't mean most stop programming. Not at all. Just most shift more away from 100% of their time writing code to a lesser time but a more important role...
15:22
But there are also people i work with that are over 40 and didn't program until they where 30 years old
and they still produce solid results
@ircmaxell: you are true they get higher position but in my case it is not true. I can not speak english fluentely
and can not reach at higher position without english
it's a gross-overgeneralization...
even if I can write good logic as today
@ShaktiSingh That's not true by any means. Lots of people get into high positions without speaking english well...
@ShaktiSingh A high position where? In the US?
15:23
I passed 2 and half year in this field and I am not at position where I should be
No, in the US you basically need to speak english...
But It's something you will pick up eventually i guess
No, It is not the US thing even if you are in small town of india and they not heared english before I belongs to that place and we are working with forieng client so english must
given that you got +7k rep on SO you can't be THAT bad at English to begin with
15:25
@ShaktiSingh What makes you say that? Why don't you feel you're in a position that you should be at this stage?
@rickchristie @edorian @ircmaxell made it into a class. seems to be slower than the closure though
Cool, let me take a peak
I had chance to got higher pos but lost I failed to present the seminar in good way in my company due to english only and they decide to keep me in current pos.
@ShaktiSingh your clearly not fluent but I have no trouble understanding you. Sure you can't go into marketing with english clients without fluent english but there's nothing stopping you from going into lead developer / manager
@Gordon puerly academic exercise i suppose?
15:29
@Gordon The only issue, is what if the constructor takes an argument that's not a dependency?
@edorian well, you tell me
Can anyone recommend a good resource on http server comparisons? Apart from apache, nginx and IIS, I personally don't know many nor the advantages/disadvantages of using them as servers (Apart from the obvouis platform & server-side language support)
@ircmaxell then dont add an & in front
Ohh, didn't see that
I don't care for that (the references), but very interesting use of it. +1 for inginuity
Ok, Friends after talking to you I said every thing I have in my mind as a trouble for me and get your response and decided to have more positive
15:31
@ircmaxell thanks
Oh, it's not a real reference
very nice!
@Raynos nothing linkable, but you know the uncool "benchmark yourself and see what work" answer already :) What do you want to do with it?
@edorian I dont really know much about http servers. Apart from benchmarks what features do different ones supply. I'm really not knowledge in low level server technology.
@ShaktiSingh Yeah, don't lose faith. It can be hard at times, especially when dealing with business people. But stay with it. If you enjoy it and are passionate about it, the opportunities will come...
@Raynos Feel free to ask me, I've worked pretty close with most of them...
One idea @Gordon: what about taking a second parameter to getInstance with constructor arguments? It would take an associative array of name => value (which would be mapped to the reflector arguments). That way you can instantiate value objects with dependencies as well
@ircmaxell patches welcome ;)
15:35
@ircmaxell: Thanks for your value able time and advise. I will stay. I will become more strong day by day.
Of course you would say that :-P
@ShaktiSingh That's the ticket. Glad to hear it. And feel welcome to always swing by here, we like having intelligent discussion here (even if we sometimes disagree on the points)...
Jenkins decided that I'm not going home as of now ..
that sucks
15:43
@edorian Who's Jenkins?
his code butler
the guy who does all the tedious works with the PHP QA tools
@MichaelAngstadt My friendly neighborhood continuous integration buttler
@edorian Haha I see...
> For starters think of it as a glorified "cron" job with a nice web interface. It's a piece of software that is build around the notion that it would be a really good idea to see if another piece of software you are currently developing "works" all the time. Since "works" is a pretty loose definition that also varies greatly among different types of Software these servers tend to be pretty flexible and open.
To quote myself
@ircmaxell do you want the optional arguments to override the configured values or should they be appended?
@ircmaxell and can they contain marked dependencies?
15:46
@edorian Like continuous integration?
@Gordon Well, you could make configured values associative
Wouldn't be able to do software development without it
Well i would.. but i don't want to go back anymore
@ircmaxell not sure what you mean
Ok, so let's say you have a constructor
public function __construct(DB $database, $id)
on class Foo
You would set the config as array('Foo' => array('database' => '&DB'));
and when constructing it: $foo = $factory->getInstance('Foo', array('id' => 5));
Now, the factory would use reflection to determine the names and order of the arguments
so you would do $args = $passedInArgumentArray + $this->config[$class]; (so yes, the getInstance params would override the configured params
@MichaelAngstadt and given that I'm responsable for code quality at my job it's an amazing tool to get that information to each developer and pretty much made my job a whole lot easier
But i also use it for any kind of simpler development at home ;)
15:51
again, this is only an idea (I haven't thought much on it, just what hit me when you posted that)
:-D
(And sorry for talking so much, CI, unit testing and clean code are the topics that just get me talking)
So it continuously runs unit tests and displays the results?
At the very basic level, yes
@Gordon: the cool benefit would be that you can then override the DI on a class by class basis if you wanted to since all you'd need to do is pass $factory->getInstance('Foo', array('database' => $dbInstance, 'id' => 5));. So it really makes things nice and flexible
@MichaelAngstadt After every commit (well, push technically)
@ircmaxell I think reflecting on the ctor argument names isnt strictly necessary as long as you pass in the arguments in the right order
15:54
Added on to that it also can run all the other QA Tools, package your application (or even deploy it when all tests pass)
It runs on github?
the server runs on my private vm
but it can pull sources from everywhere
@Gordon Well, this would allow the order to not matter, and let you define things as you want, (even overriding at will by name)
again, just throwing ideas out there
Could anyone give me a low level difference between PHP, Ruby and Python for server technologies. Ignoring zend, rails & django. Why favour any of them apart from personal preference with the language?
thats also why sf2DIC takes closures as "service locators" (so you can have them take arguments then constructing)
@Raynos PHP: Shared nothing architecture, no real threading
Python: Shared something, threading depending on which python runtime you use
Ruby: no clue tbh
15:58
@Raynos The only significant difference is that PHP has HTTP transports as a first class citizen (baked into the language) whereas Ruby and Python add that in (CGI/FastCGI/etc) in user-land
@ircmaxell Ehm how does CGI work? how do i read about this? I think node.js lends heavily from CURL for its HTTP services.
@Raynos If you need to tightly integrate with many C libraries or work close to the system you might favor python
@Tek How do I ask questions about this without looking like an idiot ;)
CGI stands for common gateway interface. It's basically any entry point to your computer from the Internet.
Tek
Tek
@Raynos no, I removed it because I meant to type lol in my AIM chat window
15:59
If you need a big scalable website the language kinda doesn't matter. Your architecture is more important

« first day (174 days earlier)      last day (4998 days later) »