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Wes
12:14 AM
 
Less blade!
You'll kill yourself with that second image
 
Wes
nah. i got all the things clamped very much
but i can't tell which one is better. i think more blade gives more resistance but i get less chip out... or none at all
i did two shelves today :B
@cmb indeed
 
Whenever I cut using a circular saw, I've always found less blade gives the cleanest cut
 
Wes
on the bottom side i get chip out
it' melamine and it came off in quite big chunks
 
oh laminated particle board
I'd expose no more than a half inch more than the thickness of your wood.
If you expose the blade at 90 degrees to the wood then all the tearing force is going to be pointed straight down. If you have no more than very top part of the blade exposed the cutting strain is going to be going down the length of the wood.
 
Wes
12:27 AM
the tearing force is all straight down, but it's on a smaller area
i suppose it depends on the profile of the blade also
i know nothing though. i'll use less blade from now on just because it seems less dangerous
 
My experience is more with bandsaws and hand held circular saws (couldn't fit a table saw, boooo)
Particle board is going to spawl all over the place regardless, but you should get better results if you have the shallowest blade profile.
So if it's inch thick wood, use an inch, use maybe an inch and a half of blade.
 
Wes
band saws are cool. next thing to buy
 
I have a recordpower.co.uk/product/premium-12-bandsaw in my conservatory. Comes in quite handy for more than just wood, say slicing up carboard boxes for recycling
 
Wes
i'm not sure i should get a scroll saw though. they are compact and that's good for me
 
If you do, make sure it's a good one. I got a cheapo scroll saw and it's utterly shite. It can do detail work on thin wood but that's about it, and even then I much prefer a thin blade on the bandsaw instead
 
Wes
12:36 AM
woodworkers on youtube don't use the scroll saw much
 
unless you need to cut holes inside of wood where you put the blade through a pilot hole then re-attach, ive found them next to useless
 
Wes
i've been trying for years to buy a garage but man these things are expensive
there are 20m^2 garages that are the price of my house :| parking space is expensive here :D
 
My conservatory next to my living room is my workshop xD good job I live alone because the sawdust goes everywhere
 
Wes
my neighbors would kill me. i need to soundproof
and that's another thing that is ridiculously expensive as hell
1m * 1m sound proofing carpet thingy 30€ wtf
 
how big a space would you need to do?
 
Wes
12:43 AM
i have the room for that here but i need to soundproof
 
A hefty layer of high density rockwool works quite well.
 
Wes
i have a room that is 6x4 meters iirc
so it's like 1000-1500$ only of sound proofing
that's quite a commitment lol
 
what kind of soundproofing though
 
Wes
they are gummy panels
like foamy
 
the concave eggshell stuff?
 
Wes
12:46 AM
but i would like to keep normal looking walls
 
Is it your place, you can do construction?
 
Wes
yes i can, but's got to be cheap. i am not ready for the expensive kind of commitment :P
 
imgur.com/PBrWMFD please excuse my face. But that's part of what I did in my studio room. Those black panels are DIY out of wood, insulation and some fabric I bought from dunelm mill
I used a pack of wickes.co.uk/… and the rest I just put together out of timbre.
 
Wes
but does it actually work? i mean the circular saw is loud as hell
 
That's for controlling reverb in where I do photography and recording.
 
Wes
12:52 AM
i live in apartment. meaning that a meter from me there's another apartment :P
with angry people in it.
even if i use a central room of my house i still have to sound proof ceil and floor
 
Oh right, you've got zero chance then. lol.... best I could suggest is installing additional stud walls and filling them with 6 inch of rockwool.
and ideally some kind of rubber between those and the existing walls, otherwise you just end up with your internal walls acting as a reverse speaker and transmitting the sound waves straight through the contact points
 
Wes
i am never going to do it
it also feels like i am raping my house
i mean a workshop in apartment in a city center is a bit weird
 
Tis a bit. Which city are you in if you don't mind me asking
 
Wes
i will buy a shed like in the deep deep suburbs and will deal with the fact that i have to drive there
 
That would certainly be the safest option xD
if you're in london or so it's still going to be ludicrously expensive for anything which isn't an hours drive away, other cities up north, you'll have better options
 
Wes
12:59 AM
cdn.thecrazytourist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/… not the kind of place for a shop :P
 
errr, no xD
 
Wes
that's udine, about 10km from me
 
ah italy
Was basing the UK bit off the .co.uk link,
 
Wes
just the first thing i ended up googling
 
i think your idea is right though... buy / hire a shed
 
Wes
1:06 AM
yeah. another idea would be move the whole of me into another house. in the past that wasn't an option because there was no good internet connection. but maybe now they do reach smaller cities
are you good with audio equipment? :B because next thing i'm building is cabinets for speakers :P
i'm going to use old but good speakers and put them in a nicer cabinet
 
Not something I know any more than the basics about, speaker design. Are we talking 10+ inch diameter?
 
Wes
more like 3 inch diameter :P
the challenge is going to be cutting the holes with just a jigsaw. but i got an idea. i am going to screw it on the bottom of a table and make kinda a scroll saw. it's going to be a disaster :D
 
how thick is the wood going to be?
 
Wes
haven't bought it yet. guessing 1cm max plywood
 
Jigsaw should be fine for that, I'd suggest doing two cuts, the first one give yourself maybe 1 or 2cm extra space from your intended cutting radius, then make your second cut and take the tolerances down to 2 to 5mm or so then finish it off with a wood file.
 
Wes
1:22 AM
need to get better blades for the jigsaw. these ones i got are more like for cutting firewood
 
Do you have an electric router?
 
Wes
nope
i have a dremel and a kinda router stand amazon.com/Breynet-Dremel-Router-Attachment-Cutting/dp/…
 
unlikely to have the power needed for a 1cm flute bit
A small sanding disk on it however might help you tidy it up at the end
 
Wes
we'll see
i have several options and i am learning, so also mistakes are for the better
in fact i might even use scrap material for the cabinets and then paint/glue carpet on them
 
Well if you've got an oxy torch you should be able to make a pretty tidy cut.
not sure how nice it'd sound though, i assume they usually use wood for a reason
 
Wes
1:29 AM
i probably shouldn't be allowed near fire :D
the jigsaw will do fine. just need a thinner blade
the one i have now is a beast, like 4mm thick
 
amazon.co.uk/Audioengine-A5-WIRELESS-Powered-Speakers/dp/… these are on my christmas wishlist for myself
 
Wes
would never spend that much for speakers :P
thanks for the tips though. i'm gonna grab some sleep now
nite \o
 
g'nite o/
 
 
1 hour later…
Wes
2:41 AM
that did not happen
i need to start exercising again -__-
 
2:51 AM
cant sleep
To much energy
 
 
4 hours later…
6:31 AM
@ircmaxell okay, let me know if you can (possibly via Twitter DM cause I can't seem to load SO chat on my phone, and my laptop screen is kinda inpractical as of yesterday evening)
 
\o
 
cmb
o/
 
\o
 
6:49 AM
new friend \o/ tyson, rescued, shar pei ... fat ears, will eat your bones ...
 
really you own that dog?
 
yes
 
interesting .. it lives with you? or out of house? (yard)
 
7:19 AM
inside
 
7:29 AM
 
7:49 AM
o/
I see .. actually I have some related questions from lots of western guys who have dog ..
1. do you have dog just for entertainment? or for security reasons?
2. how he (or it, idk) eats food? what food? do you buy meat for him everyday? Isn't expensive?
3. what about his toilet? You're keep cleaning what he does?
4. Are dogs trained? you throw things and they go and bring it back for you?
 
people have dogs for lots of reasons, we have three, two of them are family pets, and tyson is going to be my companion ... I used to have a companion dog before I moved country ...
in general dogs can eat anything humans can, with some notable exceptions ... I share food with them, or rather give it to them before I'll throw it in the bin, but nearly everybody buys prepared food for their pets, sometimes dry, sometimes cheap prepared meats with some vegetables in it ...
everything poops, we happen to have a very large private wooded area, and that's where the dogs like to go ... we don't really have to clean up after them because they rarely go anywhere that humans walk ... the woods belong to them ...
if you met a dog that had never met a human, you could get it to do what you wanted, within reason, just with body language and noises ... however, almost everyone teaches their dog at least "sit" and return when their name is called, because you need to keep them safe while walking ... most dogs will lay down and offer a paw quite easily
 
genial favorable to growth or comfort : mild
 
I see .. interesting ..
 
while we don't have them for home security, they nevertheless provide it anyway, fiercely ...
 
8:03 AM
for many months this summer we didn't even know where our front door key was, we found it now, but it's never locked ...
one of our pet dogs is an american pitbull, the thing is immense, and honestly rather frightening when in guard mode ... she's actually extremely placid all of the rest of the time ... but you can't switch off the guard in some dogs, so she appears frightening to potential intruders (anyone delivering packages for example)
 
ow I see :)
you would have emotional relationship with your dogs apparently right? also, how much is a dog's life period on avarage? (for example 5 years?)
 
Depends on the size of the dog
 
some dogs can provide emotional support, it depends on the character of the dog, their age, their sexual maturity ... our pet dogs, while I love them, are more into each other than me, the american pitbull has a strong bond with my wife, and does as I say, but she's independent in nature and strong, she doesn't need a human at all really ... dogs are most rewarding when they actually need and provide support ... when I've got a dog I'm bonded with, I'm able to face situations that otherwise
I avoid
and life span varies rather a lot, little dogs tend to have faster metabolism and so live shorter lives, but that's only a generlisation and isn't an immutable fact ..
 
Wes
morno
 
5 years would be short though, for any breed, I think ... about 10 years would be your normal dogs life I think, although many will live - and be active and healthy - up to 15 or so years ...
I've never seen a dog older than that who is really healthy, but some survive ...
moin
 
8:14 AM
ah
 
8:36 AM
@bwoebi @NikiC checked
 
thanks
 
9:10 AM
If I have a data structure that looks like:
struct info {
   int number_of_entries;
   char **entries;
}
That I want to store persistently in an extension, that supports ZTS, can anyone point me to some example code for the way of storing that data and replacing it with a new version that i) doesn't leak ii) doesn't have race conditions on freeing the data and creating a new version.
Possibly another way of asking that, are there any compare and replace macros for extension globals?
 
@Danack sorry for asking, but is it php syntax?
 
9:26 AM
@Shafizadeh no, C.
@Danack so, you want to store it in tls storage or globally?
if it's tls, you just store it in the extension globals
 
@bwoebi possibly I'm being dumb, but doesn't that have a strong change of having either a memory leak or race condition for freeing the individual strings. e.g.:
void release_memory(info *myinfo) {
  for (i=0; i<mydata->number_of_entries; i++) {
	free(mydata->entries[i]);
  }
}

void set_data() {
	info = &EXTG(info);
	release_memory(&info);
	// allocate the new strings here.
}
that'd be fine for non-ZTS (I think) but for ZTS if set_data was called at the same moment in multiple threads, it would seem bad.
bad in this case being double-frees/other race conditions, as although accessing the extension global is safe individually, operating on it doesn't appear to be.
 
ldap_search() Can't contact LDAP server if user has larger jpegPhoto attribute – #78676
 
9:50 AM
@Danack uhm, EXTG() is thread local?
 
resumes chewing crayon
So, another stupid question then, does MINIT get called once per thread, or do the globals touched during MINIT get copied into each thread?
 
@Danack minit is per thread
 
thanks.
Is there any point going through the macros for allocation/free (e.g. pestrndup/pefree) if the data is always persistent?, or is calling the C versions of strndup/free going to be equivalent?
 
@Danack eih. wait. it's actually globally and there exists some code doing it wrong, sorry.
 
@bwoebi oh, so minit is called once then?
 
10:01 AM
@Danack yes
@Danack what actually is called per thread is GINIT
 
Xdebug likely does some of this wrong
Oh, it's probably fine actually, as I do in MINIT:
ZEND_INIT_MODULE_GLOBALS(xdebug, php_xdebug_init_globals, php_xdebug_shutdown_globals);
which is then run for each "thread"
 
@Derick yeah, but try running a zts thing in phpdbg context...
 
So, are the memory wrapping macros still worth using, if the allocation is always persistent?
 
10:33 AM
adds an item to the list of 'things people are scared to talk about'
 
morns
 
10:49 AM
morning all
 
@ircmaxell I think if we do comprehensive process reform, it would be good to think about having some step below the RFC process.
E.g. in rust most of the minor decisions are done via a team sign-off
We basically only have "someone approves your PR in one day" and "you go through a 4 week RFC process" and nothing really in between
 
11:09 AM
@NikiC definitely seems reasonable
what would "team signoff" look like?
 
can I ask Laravel questions here?
 
You can, if you get an answer, that's a different Q :-)
 
0
Q: Convert eloquent whereHas to a join?

not a trollBeen told to stop using whereHas as it generate too many queries - how can I improve this and convert it to a join? I've looked at the documentation but I need some support. Junior developer. public function __invoke(Request $request, Career $career) { $withoutOutcomeCount = 0; $career->...

 
@Danack memory wrapping macros? you mean pmalloc() etc.? well, no, just use malloc() for persistent memory
 
11:25 AM
@Danack The difference between them is that pe* never fail
So you do not need to perform null checks
 
mornin room
 
11:38 AM
mornin Linus
 
11:48 AM
@NikiC thanks.
 
@NikiC Do you have a description somewhere of changes that you made to GC in 7.3/7.4? Just a commit/post with it will do :-)
 
@Derick Main gc change in 7.3 was github.com/php/php-src/pull/3165
The other big GC change, also in 7.3 was github.com/php/php-src/pull/3923
 
cheers
I'd be nice if Dmitry would have provided some prose as to what this really does as well :-)
 
12:07 PM
Morning
 
Is there any way to take an object and create a stdclass from it. The new stdclass will be an instance of stdclass not the other object, and properties although will match the other object will be public?
I fear I'm asking for too much and need to set about a long list of code calling original object's getters... :D
 
Have you tried (object) (i.e. object casting) ?
Don't know if it does the trick
 
nope will do now..
hmm the original object has private properties so casting doesn't seem to work. looks like I'm writing out the getters :(
 
cmb
(object) get_object_vars($obj) ?
Ah, private properties would require ReflectionObject::getProperties().
 
12:24 PM
I have a question about .phpt tests. It says in on the (Writing PHP Tests)[https://qa.php.net/running-tests.php] page, that "if you find a test that is affected by a [php.ini] setting, [to] please report this, so we can address the issue". So, when I find a test that fails when an ini setting is non-default, how should I fix it? Some ideas I had were:
- use %d/%s in the --EXPECTF-- section (e.g. 100 => %d)
- set the values to their defauls in the --INI-- section
- use ini_set() in the --FILE-- (e.g. ini_set('base_url', '');)
 
cmb
@ThomasF, depends. If the actual value doesn't matter, using %d is fine.
@lisachenko, you may be interested in checking windows.php.net/downloads/snaps/ostc/ffi-vectorcall :)
 
user10655999
12:40 PM
Hi can some one help me out how can i connect php with ms-sql
 
user10655999
using php 7.2 version
 
user10655999
does anyone provide any suggestion or reference link of php_sqlsrv.dll
 
user10655999
thanks @Gordan can you provide me php_sqlsrv.dll so i can place this in ext folder ?
 
@daoootim the download links are literally on that page?
 
12:55 PM
@LeviMorrison @ircmaxell @JoeWatkins @bwoebi I was just talking with Roman (our PMM) about organizing a PHP internals get together next year (25 years of PHP ^^), possibly as part of some conference. Any thoughts on that?
I know that you were interested in something like this Levi
 
hm, sounds good
 
If I know which conference then I can try my best to get a talk accepted so my company will pay my expenses.
 
Any thoughts on the format and who should be there?
 
I guess that depends on our goals for it.
Being able to propose features and changes for PHP 8 would be timely, but the outcome will depend highly on who is there.
Having some talks on specific features of the engine would be a great way for people to learn more about parts we don't know.
Opcache, garbage collection, optimizer, opcode handlers, how exceptions work, etc.
Maybe FFI, JIT.
More and more I'm hoping that we take more than 1 year to develop PHP 8. Anyone else feeling this way?
 
1:33 PM
@NikiC sounds like an interesting day
 
@LeviMorrison So you're thinking making the education part a focus? And recording the vids so other people can also benefit?
What was on my mind was more the planning side of things
 
@NikiC I've heard it done in the past, and was good then
 
we listen to each other talk all day long, i'd sort of like to hear from business/project leaders about where in fact they want PHP to go, and I'd like it if everyone were in the same time and place to hear those thoughts ...
 
@NikiC I think it should be open for anyone to attend, but core active devs should be ideally sponsored (airfare, hotel, etc)
 
@NikiC I think we need some reason other than "let's have a good time together" to justify cross-continental travel.
@NikiC Such as?
 
1:36 PM
also where we fail, what delays adoption of new versions ... that sort of thing is interesting ... gc, not so much, we can just read that code ...
 
@NikiC As far as format, I think a unconference would work well. Pre-seed and ask for topics people want to talk about ahead of time, and do 2-4 breakouts at a time to talk about individual topics. 1 day of that. Then a day of focused proposals and iteration for planning and project direction. Moderated, but centered around a proposed solution rather than a problem (as a starting point)
 
@JoeWatkins ha, some of us read the code better than others :)
 
@LeviMorrison Well, trying to resolve recent tensions on language directions for example. Zeev should probably be there ^^
 
I do think at least part of the discussion should be focused on how to attract and integrate new contributors in a sustainable method
 
@NikiC wait, wat, why should z be there ?
 
1:38 PM
@ircmaxell Having talks on focused subjects would be a way to educate them. There's still onboarding and such, but since our docs are nearly non-existent... talks would be good.
 
I'm far less likely to attend, or encourage other people to attend if there is likely to be conflict ... I hardly see how you're going to get z in a room and it not end in an argument ...
 
@JoeWatkins Presumably in an in-person setting we can have security throw him out if it's unruly.
 
@LeviMorrison talks, and/or making solid plans (or heck, a hackathon) for improving docs and/or starter tasks/bugs/etc
 
and I'm confused as to why you think he should even have a say in that future, he does nothing but cause trouble ...
 
@JoeWatkins Eh, I think that getting him in person is specifically what would avoid the argument
 
1:40 PM
@ircmaxell Yeah, would be good.
 
Usually discussions online tend to be a whole lot more aggressive than in person
 
@NikiC I've found him pretty reasonable in person (not totally, but more so than online)
 
How long of a conference are we thinking of attaching to? I'm accustomed to conferences being all or nearly all work-week, but in the PHP world that doesn't seem as common.
 
@LeviMorrison for stuff like this, I would do the internals summit as a 3 day event at minimum
(in addition to the conference)
I've been a part of 2 of those style summits. One for a CMS project I was involved in, and one at a DrupalCon. The Drupal approach may fit well, and if this is a serious thing, I'd suggest looping in some of the organizers of their core dev summits to help provide guidance/suggestions
 
Maybe we can start a google docs thing to collect ideas?
 
1:42 PM
@NikiC I like it. Barcelona? Many of us will be there anyway...
 
A mix of talks, hackathons, and "vison" seems good.
Or maybe a bit less ambitious on "vision" and just vision for "PHP 8".
 
@Derick Barcelona is a bit soon ^^ Don't think there's a chance to organize any extra people for that
 
@LeviMorrison I think 8 is fairly well decided now, now? Wouldn't it be better for 9?
 
I think that will be handing him a voice he hasn't earned and does not deserve, and we'll pay a price with every online discussion that follows it ... because we've in a sense legitimised his behaviour over the last few months - if you make enough noise, we'll give you a loudspeaker - makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever ...
 
And Zeev is just fine in person. I think.
 
1:44 PM
@NikiC I would suggest something like PHPTek next year
 
33 mins ago, by Levi Morrison
More and more I'm hoping that we take more than 1 year to develop PHP 8. Anyone else feeling this way?
 
@LeviMorrison Ah :)
 
@ircmaxell Most of the people are in Europe...
 
i think about 10 of us are in barcelona in november or not? its a bit short term though
 
Sara is in Europe, right? She's a person not yet mentioned I'd like to see attend.
 
1:45 PM
@Derick PHPBenelux is too cold and soon to plan
 
@LeviMorrison no, chicago
@ircmaxell DPC....
 
dpc is in june
 
@Derick or PHPDayVerona...
 
(usually)
 
I bet DPC'd be more than happy to facility us
@ircmaxell You are an odd capitalisationish
 
1:46 PM
I can reach out to Ross if you're interested there
@Derick whatEverAreyou TalKinG aBouT
Ross isn't involved anymore, but may hook me up with someone else from the DPC organization team
 
who attends I don't really care about whatever, but who speaks and what they speak about is more important ... if you're going to give Z an opportunity to tell the world all of the stuff he has been repeating ad nauseum on internals for the last few months, that will be damaging ...
 
@JoeWatkins the world wouldn't be an audience
 
as soon as the videos are on youtube, they are ...
 
There won't be videos
 
17 mins ago, by NikiC
@LeviMorrison So you're thinking making the education part a focus? And recording the vids so other people can also benefit?
 
1:50 PM
I've been in one of these with him before, it'll be fine. And I really think he should be there.
 
@ircmaxell I would only record talks on specific topics, like on optimizer, JIT.
 
it was mentioned ...
 
The point of the discussion days are that it's an in-person event. If a key person or two can't make it physically, maybe Video Conference them in
@LeviMorrison exactly
@LeviMorrison Or, actually, work with the event to get an internals track (since all the devs will be there anyway), and use that for the videos...
 
This was about two day's worth of discussion: derickrethans.nl/files/dump/meeting-notes.html
 
I'm not sure why you think he should be there, I don't view him as a leader, or influential in any positive sense ... I'm not sure what good can come from it ...
 
1:53 PM
If there is only one thing, it'd be bridge building.
 
I think we should be open to anyone. Once we have a bit more of a concrete plan, we can email internals. I think that would be appropriate. If Zeev comes, he comes. If he doesn't, he doesn't.
 
you only rebuild bridges if you want to get to the thing on the other side ... this particular bridge could be nuked for all I care ...
 
@LeviMorrison If it's going to be a group say over 8 people, an independent and effective chair might be really useful too
 
@Derick I think it'd likely be at least 20 people, likely more
 
I sure hope it's more than 8.
 
1:55 PM
Heck, in this room alone there are 8 or 9 that would likely go
 
My point still stands :-)
 
I chatted with Ross Tuck. He doesn't run DPC anymore, but can connect us with those that do. The one downside there is the venue is absurdly expensive if we wanted to use it outside the conference days. He does run other conferences and has a bunch of contacts and has offered to help find other venues in AMS or plan as/if things come together
 
Plenty of PHP companies in Amsterdam too
 
@Derick yeah, organizing and facilitating will be key. Getting 20-40 people in a room and asking "what do you want to talk about" would be disaster
 
I didn't consider it might be more than one day, if there's an evening available, the opportunity to hack on stuff together would be cool, if it can be accommodated by the venue ...
 
2:01 PM
Hmm, why do you want to do that as part of a conf instead of making a dedicated conf?
 
hack, and social :)
 
@Gordon I think it's much easier to add a track to a conference than start our own.
 
yeah that
 
@Gordon Because the conference might already pay for some of the travel and hotel? :-)
 
@Gordon the conference would get advertising and attendance boost, and hence would contribute to organization effort (less work for organizing on our part)
@Derick though for some reason I don't think it would be a total pain to find sponsors for that bit ourselves. The venue on the other hand...
 
2:02 PM
also technically a conference is infra, and we suck at that and need a third party to hold our hands ...
 
Jeez, maybe we can bring up how bad we suck at infra at the conference?
 
you'll just get a lot of nodding heads ...
we're not really interested in infra
 
I wonder if we could get sponsors to pay humans to do it, instead of just donating the infra that we let bitrot...
 
I think that's the only way really.
 
@LeviMorrison hardware is cheap. Fleshware is expensive
 
2:12 PM
sysadmins are pretty simple, I've heard if you chop the finger off one and stick it in a bucket with fried chicken and coke, and leave it in front of a monitor for a long weekend, another sysadmin will materialize from the bucket ... maybe we should grow our own ...
3
 
please pass a CoC before that conference though ;)
 
maybe you should stop calling it a cock^Wcoc then.
 
weirdly, next week I'm giving a panel discussion on the future of PHP: twitter.com/_phpworld/status/1184471876128641024
 
You too?!
 
@Derick should he rather call it a Directives in conduct & kindness?
 
2:22 PM
@Gordon How long did you work on that? :-)
 
@Derick 15 seconds
 
@Derick yup :D
 
Re: infra, I read that Google / AWS have just sponsored Rust with a decent amount of credits for their cloud platforms. If you were wanting to re-factor infra to be more maintainable, might be worth approaching them
errr, AWS / Azure sorry
 
we already have tons of companies that sponsor machines and whatnot. its the time of people that is the problem
 
I was under the impression it was all one-service-per-machine kinda thing?
 
2:33 PM
not really the problem
the problem is people
Most of it is on Digital Ocean now
 
well, problem is also the resistance to modern practices as well as people...
 
Is there a list of things which need doing, something like Danack's internals list but for infra?
 
you need to separate it all into microservices and move it to k8s
 
That's why I was thinking AWS / GKE / Azure, they all have solid K8S platforms.
 
I was kidding
 
2:35 PM
Thank god.
 
It already is a bunch of disconnected services, no?
 
k8s isn't "needed", but containerization and refactoring to be less reliant upon stateful boxes may make some things a bit easier and safer
 
Yes, so how does having a more complicated layer on top helps?
/me bows out of this discussion
 
Honestly I find a managed K8S layer easier than trying to maintain individual boxes.
Just don't ask me to run an actual custom cluster, I would rather die.
 
Cluster management isn't difficult. Making a cluster not brittle is a pita, and K8S works well for managing certain types of clusters (if you're not managing k8s yourself)
 
2:40 PM
IF you actually move them to containers and K8s, feel free to ping me to provide monitoring. I'll try to make Instana sponsor that.
 
@Gordon Impressive for 15 seconds.
 
i am sorry, but how is infrastructure the topic we talk about now? this is totally off topic
 
@beberlei Sorry, we really suck at it.
 
:47591924
> also technically a conference is infra, and we suck at that and need a third party to hold our hands ...
 
@NikiC Mind starting the doc, since you brought it up?
Then we can pin it or something?
 
2:43 PM
@LeviMorrison I was distracted :D
 
@ircmaxell I'd never try to actually run my own cluster. Sounds hellish. But by using a managed one I managed to move to decommission 20+ servers last year and replaced them with a handful of yaml files.
and moved from needing a dozen servers always-on waiting for spikes, to using 1 core to provide base load.
I don't understand the hate Kubernetes gets.
 
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