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00:00
it really isn't - it tastes like sugar with monosodium glutamate
I like Oreo
I like proper bitter chocolates
best if it comes with some bourbon
Ah, sugar with monosodium glutamate, it tastes so good!
unrelated, I've tripled my phone bill in two days
the ISP better come install the thing today...
@tereško it's the taste and the texture
I like cake, cookies, pie, what have you, but none of them have the texture of oreo cream
00:26
foreach just over keys – #77532
00:50
!!lxr Z_TYPE_P
@Ekin Nothing went wrong but I couldn't find a suitable definition
meh.
01:22
Hello guys
 
1 hour later…
Wes
Wes
02:46
@NikiC you need to start deprecating stuff man :D
    public function isUnqualified() : bool {
        return 1 === count($this->parts);
    }
despite i learned the difference between qualified and fully qualified, i have no idea why that information would be useful to me :D
Found crash when appending element to pass-by-ref array with [] – #77533
Wes
Wes
and in case, i would just do count($object->parts) :B
03:05
Hi all
I just need a confirmation from you all great people.
I use PHP 7.3.1
I want to confirm whether the 'Safe Mode' feature in PHP has been completely removed as of PHP 7.3.1?
03:56
Evening
04:43
o/
!!lxr Z_TYPE
@JoeWatkins Nothing went wrong but I couldn't find a suitable definition
@DaveRandom ^^
hey joe
/me was looking at bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=77530
I was wondering if that's a matter of adding IS_STRING check somewhere in github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/Zend/zend_compile.c#L1338
if (Z_TYPE_P(zv) != IS_STRING) {
    zend_error_noreturn(E_COMPILE_ERROR, "Illegal class name");
}
maaybe something like that before the 2nd zend_error there
I dunno, I couldn't sleep and been looking at this
could be checked earlier in zend_compile_class_name maybe
04:56
well no
the assertion must pass, so must be verified to be valid ast before attempting to compile it, I think ...
hmm
see if we add that branch to that very high frequency function, we'll pay dearly for it ...
the ASSERT means that we're assuming it's always a string, and shouldn't need to check because it should be logically consistent ... I think ...
yeah, that makes sense
in case of zend_compile_class_ref this is solved right there
which looked like a similar example
yeah, that, do that
yeah it has to be constant anyway, can't be var
my 6am on a monday morning brain thinks that's right, but you're not allowed to quote me ...
no worries, though my all nighter brain has been trying to get that work in zend_compile_class_name but haven't figured it out yet
05:07
oh I see, something like ...
diff --git a/Zend/zend_compile.c b/Zend/zend_compile.c
index 01049f4175..3897df52cd 100644
--- a/Zend/zend_compile.c
+++ b/Zend/zend_compile.c
@@ -1480,6 +1480,7 @@ static void zend_ensure_valid_class_fetch_type(uint32_t fetch_type) /* {{{ */
 static zend_bool zend_try_compile_const_expr_resolve_class_name(zval *zv, zend_ast *class_ast, zend_ast *name_ast, zend_bool constant) /* {{{ */
 {
        uint32_t fetch_type;
+       zval *class_name;

        if (name_ast->kind != ZEND_AST_ZVAL) {
                return 0;
right ?
just hop around the asserts, I think ...
you can't do what class_ref does, that compiles expr ... you gotta extract the zval from the ast (fine no failed assertions) then check it's type before passing it to the fetch_type ... and it looks a bit different in master, but you'll figure it out from there, I think ...
yeah that does give me nice clues indeed
I see
alright, I'll give it another stab after a cup of coffee : ) thanks
yw, I'm sure you'd have got it after the brew ... ast can be a pain to get head around with it's children and types and magical casts and such ...
at first I used magical casts, then had to go looking round for api because it's been ages since I looked at anything in compiler ...
someone messed up this manual page, and I've no clue how ... php.net/manual/en/function.uopz-allow-exit.php
wtf, not binary safe and register globals ... surprising ...
I guess because of the lack of sleep I've been looking at it the wrong way at first, but that made me learn stuff already regarding ast, also was a reminder of debugging with gdb... I say it was a fun all nighter before boring weekly work
05:24
I could be wrong, it might not be the best way .... but do the pr, you done the leg work ... and we shouldn't call things stupid ...
I think I'm sick, it's 19 degrees in here and I'm sweating, overheating, and feel weak ...
:-( hope you feel better... I'm sick of this never ending rainy season
want the summer times back
how many months of summer do you get ?
only another two months for me and it's back in the pool ...
8/12 months a year ...
uh, I guess it goes on from end of april till the end of september... by the end of september is already less hot and makes my mood swing like hell, knowing the winter is on the way
it's not technically summer, but 8/12 it's as hot here as it was in the uk on a nice summers day ...
and the uk has had 4 nice summers since 1066 ... I saw one ...
heh
05:31
winters here are just so mild, it doesn't really rain, it's either sunny, or the heavens are opening and the weather is frightening, but that's kinda cool to watch from here, so I don't mind ...
all around the villa are outside balconies, when the wind is strong enough, you can take a few steps and leap and the wind will push you along, 8-10 feet at a time ... it's a cool game to play with the kids
:-) that sounds very nice
happy you're enjoying it
I'd rather travel catching the summer all the time
born in a mediterranean climate, I don't do well with cold and rain
I'd like to do a bit of time in africa, but we can't figure out how to get it done yet, and then brexit is forcing us to sort other things out first ... but I gotta go sometime, I can drive to a ferry port that will take us to africa, seems like a wasted opportunity not to do it ...
that's something I've always wanted to do... I've met people who spent a few months there, people who helped tourists and also the locals
@Ekin haha, it's so funny, when it drops to like 20 degrees here, all the natives are wearing scarfs and huuuuge coats and hats and shit, and we're cutting about in t-shirts still ... they don't do well it's anything less than blazing hot ...
heard some of the most inspiring stories from them.. hope you get to visit :-)
ha, that's pretty much me
thought over years it would improve, it really doesn't
should've been taken example of russian relatives and done the cold baths in the morning for a while when I was a kid
but just the thought of it was ...cold
05:38
Wednesday's predicted high for where I live: -14°F (-26°C).
I'm told they'll give you a 12 month visa with hardly any money, I'd love a whole year, go find a villiage somewhere, make life better for them somehow, even just one family, I'd love it ... but not sure if I'd be able to work still ...
Predicted low: -30°F (-34°C).
Not that those are normal temperatures mind you… but damn.
that's... way too low
I think where you live may be broken @Trowski
^++
05:40
I mean that's not cold, that's hostile to life
Minnesota. We occasionally get winds that drive arctic air down. Much of Canada has the same problem.
@JoeWatkins The squirrels do tend to stay in their nests when it's that cold out. Somehow the birds don't seem to care.
sounds like a kind of hell ... how long would you survive outside in -30 ? I've no idea what that feels like ...
without any special gear, just in normal clothes that you'd normally wear when weather is normal, how quickly would that kill you ?
@JoeWatkins Exposed skin can frostbite in less than 10 minutes. If you were outside in a T-shirt and pants I doubt you'd last 30 minutes.
Depends on how fat you are I suppose, lol
that's terrifying
ever held a bird in your hand ?
they are extremely hot, their hearts don't beat, they hum ...
they probably don't even notice ...
It's not usually that cold. The highs average around 20°F (-7°C) and lows around 5°F (-15°C) in January.
05:48
small birds anyway, bigger ones, african grey size/predatory birds, they would likely suffer ... they're still hot, but there's no aura of heat around them like small birds ...
No, I've never held a bird. I frequently see bald eagles around my house, though not when it's that cold.
but then I suppose predators fly in those kind of temperatures all the time, maybe they wouldn't really suffer because they're just used to it ...
I had a little pet bird for a while, never held a wild one, I don't think possible ...
and local pet shop has afircan grey, I was going to buy one ... I've held it, they're remarkable creatures ...
(yay, finally a passing test)
The eagles are surprisingly skittish. You'd think a bird with 2 inch talons wouldn't care about some guy on the ground.
Now you have me wanting to find a bird to hold, I'm curious.
would I target master for this one @JoeWatkins?
05:54
7.3
not sure what's the lowest
I'm not really surprised, it takes a lot of work for a bird to come really close, unless you can trick it somehow ...
they're not easily domesticated, there's no breed of bird that's domesticated like dogs or cats, they are all born wild, with the instincts of a wild bird ...
@JoeWatkins One of these? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_parrot
yeah, they're fantastic talkers and mimics
and just amazing to be near
they've got personalities, they enjoy doing stuff, they're so great ...
Yeah, I talked to one at a arboretum one day, was quite awesome.
05:57
I was totally going to buy one, and then bought a smaller parrot because didn't know anything about keeping birds, and then my little parrot just died for no reason, it was devastating and I'm too scared to buy the grey now ...
apparently it's not uncommon for birds to just die of a heart attack, they're not really meant to be in cages, as much as some of them appear to enjoy interacting with us and don't attempt to escape, it's not natural ...
Personally I've always thought that about keeping birds. It bothered me to have an animal meant to fly boxed up in a little cage.
The parrot in the arboretum seemed happy since it had free reign of the entire place.
I convinced myself that pet birds are better off because they're safer here, there's no predators, and they don't have to work for food, but picking up such a beautiful dead animal, so young, and burying it left an indelible mark ...
I've lost other pets but they lived long and happy lives, it's not so upsetting ...
I think if ever I could build a real habitat for a grey, I might change my mind ... but not inside, not in a cage ...
True, most wild birds probably live a fraction of the time.
Smaller birds would be easier to keep, yes.
I'm not sure if bigger might be better ... I mean it's swallows and such that migrate thousands of miles, maybe they actually do need to be able to fly further than is possible while even in the biggest of habitats ... but bigger parrots aren't even that keen on (or very good at) flying ...
Hmm… also true. Honestly I know little about birds. They're pretty and I like taking pictures of them when I find the time – that's about it.
06:13
my little parrot wasn't caged all the time, his cage was open nearly all day every day, and my office is 20-25 feet long, never measured, but two huge rooms with no separating wall ... he had lots and lots of space for an indoor bird ... I don't think I could have kept him happy in any space though, it clearly stressed him out ...
Do you know how old the bird was? How long do they usually live?
but I can imagine being able to build something big enough outside for a grey, you see them in zoos and such in huge habitats, but they don't move from where they are comfortable on their perch, and they're not chained or tied down ... they're just happier to watch the world go by ...
he was 4 months old, and he was a western rosella ...
they have an expected life span of 15+ years :(
he may have been 6 or even 8 months old, we could only go by his weight ...
Huh… yeah, no idea, that's odd.
Hi All
yeah, he was an unlucky thing, you're supposed to keep them in pairs, but he had a genetic mutation that made him look unlike any other western rosella, and so couldn't have a cage mate (they would attack him/be hostile to him) ....
06:18
I am new to PHP, would like to ask a noob Question.
<?php
if(!isset($_POST['submit'])){
$to = "[email protected]"; // this is your Email address
$email = $_POST['email']; // this is the sender's Email address
$name = $_POST['name'];
$company = $_POST['company'];
$message = $name . " " . $email . " ". $company;


$headers = "From:" . $from;
$headers2 = "From:" . $to;
mail($to,$message,$headers);

mail($from,$headers2,$headers2,$message); // sends a copy of the message to the sender
echo "Mail Sent. Thank you " . $first_name . ", we will contact you shortly.";
mail sends even if empty. How can i check? if not empty?
i want to send mail if user has filled in all their details
@JoeWatkins Wonder then if he didn't have other issues that lead to the early demise.
@Trowski hey bro, are able to help? sorry for being a nooob
we had him checked, took him from the not very nice bird shop we bought him at (couldn't leave him alone there), to a vet before we even got him home ... it was the vet that told us he was mutated western rosella, and that it's not unique, but so uncommon that we won't find him a mate ... we were told it's just skin deep, like albinism ...
@PikaChU Read the manual some more, particularly on how isset() works and basic control structures.
06:26
@Trowski i have , thats how i got this far. just cant seem to see whats going on. Why it send if empty
@JoeWatkins Might have just been lonely, sorry to say. Off to bed, night o/
yeah ... nn
06:39
Good morning fine people and @JoeWatkins
it's too early to figure out if I'm being insulted ...
I have to work on uopz today, not really looking forward too it ...
I closed a bunch of issues since the last release which I'll have to open again, and no idea how to figure out which ones ... have to revert a bunch of changes
commits didn't close them, I done a bunch of work and then went and closed them after making one or some huge commits, can't even remember ...
Does most of your work on uopz come from your actual work now?
yeah, it always has ... most of the ext's I publish are born of some need at work, but the deal is I get to publish what I write ... we have one closed source ext that wouldn't be interesting to anyone anyway ...
06:46
Doesn't it beat reviewing laravel code? :P
oh that never stops ... so actually I'll be working on uopz and with laravel today .... and you just made my day worse ... THANKS ...
:(
Sorry :D
today I'm not fixing uopz for work actually, but [some very well known large site that someone very well known works on but I don't want to mention because I'm not sure if that's okay] ... we're moving away from uopz and they are going deeper, despite everything I said to discourage that ... they got work to do I guess ...
kk:)
I think, what I might do, is ask dmitry to make uopz good for core, and abandon it there ... it was his suggestion that it might be worth having in core ...
and I super hate maintaining it ...
you can't tell the difference between me maintaining it, and me encouraging you to use it ... and I don't want anyone to use it ...
06:53
fwiw I fully expected said company to have a... uhmmm. sub par codebase
yeah it's not a surprise at all
other big sites also use it, they squeak at me, quietly, when it breaks stuff ...
the existence of such things actually encourages people not to fix their shit, I really believe that ... if nobody had worked on runkit when 7 came out, and I hadn't written uopz, the world would actually be a better place now ...
It has been useful for me in the past when writing libraries which wrapped / tightly incorporated php built ins
But that is a very specific use case :)
I totally fucked up there, I was focused on making stuff work so we could deploy 7 asap, without really thinking about what kind of future I was creating ...
that's probably not a bad one, but give people an ability and they will abuse the fuck out of it, some of our tests didn't even make sense, they are just testing uopz ...
you get people overriding stuff in Illuminate\, which makes no sense at all
@JoeWatkins That's mostly laravel's fault though as it basically forces you to write shit code
I'm trying to hammer home "don't mock what you don't own" with the new mimus stuff, it can mock what you don't own, but that shouldn't be your target ... if you find yourself mocking a class outside your namespace, you're doing it wrong most likely ...
I don't believe that, you can write nice code with anything, you don't have to use facades or any other bad pattern therein ... it doesn't discourage it, but you shouldn't need your hand holding ... it comes down to lazyness actually, it's harder to do it right so they do it fast, and then test it any way they can ... but nobody is breathing down their back telling them to work faster, they just think it correct to be as fast as possible rather than as correct as possible ...
07:02
@JoeWatkins I do believe that.Just look at a "normal" laravel inheritence chain
Hey @PeeHaa I see you were working on a validation library, and I was working on one too which essentially provides VOs to be passed around and the validation happens within them. I see that my "rules" approach looks very similar to how you are adding validation rules too.

Can you look at this repo and gimme some suggestions?https://github.com/2dsharp/phypes
Normal as in what the framework actually wants you to do
but you can ignore the easiest thing in favour of the correct thing, but nobody does ...
True
But I am a believer if you have to fight your chosen frameowork every step of the way you probably picked the wrong framework for the job
@2dsharp Do you want suggestions in here or in github issues?
strange inheritance only matters if you inherit it, right ? and what's better than inheritance ? I know it's sometimes unavoidable by design, but you can limit the badness with a bit of effort ... it's just harder ...
07:05
Issues is great, that way I can address each issue individually. It's still a baby project, I just need to know if I should improve something about the approach.
I don't disagree. All I am saying is that some frameworks makes it needlessly harder
there's some truth to picking the right framework for the job, but it was already picked when I started on this project ...
Yeah I get that and I am sorry for you :P
@2dsharp Can I bitch about anything I want?
although, name a framework that forces you to write good code ?
3
@PeeHaa Yes, yes you can :D
07:07
\o/
github.com/php/php-src/pull/3768 I did the git thing, since the test passed for this branch too
@JoeWatkins For example slim and in a lesser way symfony don't force you to write better code, but they don't make it harder to do either
@JoeWatkins I would love to know that too.
@PeeHaa give someone a hammer and tell them to hammer a nail in, give someone a screwdriver and tell them to hammer a nail in ... there's not going to be any difference in how that someone works, they are going to beat the nail with whatever is in their hand, in exactly the same way
very few people will modify the nail to behave like a screw when given the screwdriver ... so it doesn't really matter what framework you give people, if they have a predisposition to get things done without regard for correctness or design, that's what they going to do whatever ...
That's where we disagree. I have seen more crap coming out laravel projects than other projects (which I believe is partly by design)
More and worse crap
07:17
for it to be laravels fault, the people producing the crap would have to be unaware that they are producing crap, highly unlikely, they know what they are doing is wrong, but they know it's easiest, and that's more important to them ...
@JoeWatkins The people I worked with / the projects I had to try to salvage the people didn't know they were doing it
But my projects are basically just that. Salvaging and I never had the opportunity like you to keep pushing for a longer term
I'm not speaking in defence of laravel, I just can't change it ... but can change the minds of individual developers using it ... if you shift the blame from the framework to the developer, it becomes their problem, which they have to fix, they're not so willing to say "this is how you do it in laravel" ... because I just say "I don't care" ...
@JoeWatkins I used to say: "ok and how did that work out for you / and why do you think I am here" :p
yeah, that also works ... but it's the same thing, you're shifting the blame to the developer, but talking as if you blame the framework ... just be honest and tell them they are doing it wrong and it's their fault, not the frameworks ...
I am blaming both
07:27
well we can't change laravel, there's no point focusing too much on how it works, or what it promotes, we can only promote working the correct way with it, or any other framework ...
fwiw I blame their community more than the actual framework
\o/ I have internet again cc @StatikStasis
none of them get everything right, no matter what framework you use there are going to be dark corners where you have to bow to what the framework wants to get your job done, and ignore what is best ... we can just ignore those dark corners mostly ... and focus on the the vast majority of code being written to the best of standards, by taking the best of standards as your modus operandi instead of the best of Framework X standards ...
that's quite enough laravel talk for one year, this is SO ...
I am agree :)
we still don't do laravel, if anyone asks ...
10
Opened some issues @2dsharp
07:43
Yea, working on them one by one. Thanks! :) Is there any general feedback you'd like to give about the approach as a whole?
I need to see it in action when some more rules are available and how it works in a project
Also, about the custom validators thing, I guess its upto the users to make sure that they don't inject wrong kinds of validators in classes. If someone is going to make a password validator and inject it into email, they are entirely aware of what they are doing and should be punished by their coworkers.
That's true, but it's a library specialized for validation. So I would personally prefer to make it hard to screw up
Anyone knows is there two spaces surround the condition (in if statement) in the standard php systax?
In other word, which one?
- if ( $request->product_id ){
- if ($request->product_id){
08:00
plexus any complex structure containing an intricate network of parts: the plexus of international relations.
@2dsharp an example of what I mean. Say you have an IpAddress object which uses the IPAddressValidatorvalidator by default. Which is fine. Now if I were to pass in another validator chances are the actual type is not an IpAddress anymore
@Shafizadeh by PSR without. Read all but coding standard is in 1, 2, 12, 5, 19.
ah ok thx
When you don't allow to let user pass in their own validators you force people to think about the types and the correct validators by letting them implement their own types instead of trying to shoehorn their custom types in
My 0.02
one of you people should post my weekend blogs to reddit ... don't you think ?
08:12
@JoeWatkins Link?
https://blog.krakjoe.ninja/2019/01/boxes-of-sand.html
https://blog.krakjoe.ninja/2019/01/faking-it.html
Which one do you prefer first?
Boxes of sand it is
probably the sandbox one, there was mention of sandboxing recently on reddit
Will do the other one tonight if nobody else did it
/me goes back to writing code
09:01
@JoeWatkins reading the mimus readme - I think baby polar bears are cuter than the grown out ones to meet :-P
since it's at the bottom of a todo list, it's highly unlikely to be achieved anyway :D
but ... but ... baby polar bears :o
oh I see, fixed
hahaha :-D
10:01
morns
mornin
o/
10:21
\o
abr
abr
\o
10:50
o/
goat moaning
@JoeWatkins posted the other one
ah thanksyou
11:16
> In an ideal world of semantic versioning, patched releases won’t include any breaking changes. This, unfortunately, is not always true. The strategy employed by npm may result into two machines with the same package.json file, having different versions of a package installed, possibly introducing bugs. source
hmm.. don't they also have a .lock file?
11:39
tl;dr yarn has emojis
@Patrick might not be so good for your karma that one ... sorry about that ... don't know why ...
11:57
could just be sick of ... or could be something to do with the number of mocking frameworks is some function of the number of reddit users :)
I don't like mocking frameworks. they are so rude.
you should hear what they say about you ...
12:22
7.0 – #77534
@Jeeves wat
@NikiC this is clearly your fault, you should make invalid literals valid, no matter what ...
I'm not sure how to close it, there's no "that's not how numbers work" category ...
how the view and model and controllers are connected in mvc. I see many different confusing diagrams.
does view have anything to do with model or not, only controller is responsible to talk to model. some diagrams show that view do interact with model
directly
lol
the first thing you need to figure out is whether you actually need views
oh
how do I figure it out?
I thought views are must.
@teresko
12:38
> its probably just mondayness, did you try turning it off and on again ?
I genuinely just said this to someone ...
hmm ... to put it simply: none of the frameworks and tutorials that you see on the internet actually have "views"
they just try to convince you, that templates are the same thing as views
so what is actually a view then?
a view is a class, which is responsible for having UI to represent the current state of the model layer
context of website, it's what creates the HTTP response based on data that it pulls from model layer
and that response can be both a simple http location header or a full html document
and to create a html document the view would pick which templates to use
yes but does it talk directly to model or controller does it
it communicates with controllers by using HTTP requests
and in talks to model layer by asking data from various services
12:44
then the model returns data to whom?
also, FYI. "model" is not a class/object but an application layer
to controller?
@azam ignore all the diagrams and people lecturing you about MVC and just write working code with whatever convention your framework tells you to use.
@azam the view asks data from the model layer
boohoo.. how do I write code then directly with out having any understanding? @Gordon
12:45
@azam just use laravel
I am abut to cry literally
teresko saying don't use laravel Gordon saying use laravel. I have no idea what to do
Ok, don't use laravel. But ignore MVC.
Oh, Dear.
well, he's actually correct
12:49
who is correct?
azam or Gordon?
what you should try to do is implement Separation of Concerns
right
but I am puzzled now,
what the fuck is MVC
it's whatever you want it to be
nobody knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
12:50
I am dying now.
* as long as it helps to market your framework
and those that do know wish they wouldn't know
Its like you are walking a road and in the middle you find out that leads to nowhere.
@azam MVC is a very specific implementation of Separation of Concerns with a strictly defined flow of control
okay.. that is what I what to know how the flow occurs then
@tereško
12:53
I already explained it to you
it's not strictly defined. I've been saying this for years and I still insist on it. It's much more about the roles and the flow
@Gordon no, MVC is strictly defined, but you are not required to implement it
according to you the view(whatever it is) talks directly to model and recieves data. then what is the function of controller then.
if I am not required, it's not strict :P
unfortunately various idiots have been abusing that term to sell their pieces of shit
12:55
@azam a controller handles requests from the UI and delegates them to the model
@azam controller takes user input and alters the state of model layer
can you please draw a diagram for it?
and a dumbed down form: controller writes to the model, view reads from model
In a one youtube tutorial, a restaurant example is presented, in which waiter is controller and cook is model and the customer is the view. so in this case the customer is not communicating with cook directly
so it means the example was wrong?
@tereško Shouldn't the user see the view instead of the view seeing the user?
12:59
@tereško and this is why I insist on the roles being more important than the flow. i can easily show you a diagram where the Model doesnt update the View but the View observes the changes in the Model instead.
@azam yes that example is completely wrong
think of the view as the database tables, then it makes more sense (especially in a ddd/es context)

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