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12:04 AM
hurrar, managed to do a good 16 square meters of insulation b efore giving up for the night \o/
 
12:42 AM
@MarkR nice
 
@Danack I'd got the impression you were stiff but weren't usually experiencing pain, and the THC kinda turned it on like a switch, or did I missunderstand that?
 
1:30 AM
Interesting read. I hope something can eventually be sorted out.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:08 AM
@Danack I'm going to have to get a copy of this series. Too many sci-fi books are dystopian and I just don't find them interesting. Asimov's Foundation isn't bad, but it's pretty dry.
 
 
4 hours later…
7:24 AM
Unfortunately, PHP 8 was benchmarked in a very early stage
 
Wes
8:07 AM
surprisingly nobody closevoted it yet stackoverflow.com/questions/63213730
 
8:37 AM
Do you think we could request AWS to sponsor a performance benchmark that we could run regularly? My idea is to test different architectures (Intel, AMD, ARM) with multiple use-cases (e.g. web workload, math, etc.), with different configs (only OPCache, JIT, preloading). I'm fairly sure that I could nicely automate this process via Terraform. And the benchmark could be run every day or every week, given someone pays the infra costs :)
And I'd be curious for suggestions what to test. I think it would be useful to go beyond testing a Symfony "Hello Word" page, so maybe logging a user in (probably by mocking the DB layer), or any other more complex use-cases should also be tested.
 
9:13 AM
Hello! Does anyone have something to propose, to check "if two out of three arrays are identical"? I have three arrays, and two (random) of them, sometimes may be identical. But I never know which two...
 
9:25 AM
morns
@CDoc do you want to know which two are identical, or just that they are identical?
 
@mega6382 right now I am doing it like this but this is sloppy and wrong... I need to know if 2 out of 3 are identical, and which ones also....

Right now the wrong way I'm trying: ($spinResult[0] === $spinResult[1] || $spinResult[0] === $spinResult[2] || $spinResult[1] === $spinResult[2])
 
@CDoc You have to compare a with b, a with c, b with c. No other way.
 
@Tpojka like the way I'm doing it, you mean?
 
Seems so, yes.
 
@CDoc you can do them one by one instead of all at the same time too.
 
9:31 AM
Thanks :)
 
@Derick any chance bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=60302 is likely to see a fix for 8.0?
and will throwing money at you help solve it?
 
I'm trying to think whether that would be a BC break or not.
Shoot me an email?
 
@CDoc check this: 3v4l.org/gYHM2 might be useful you can tweak it and make it more efficient, it can also handle any number of arrays
 
9:46 AM
@Derick I'd have thought that with wiki.php.net/rfc/covariant-returns-and-contravariant-parameters, it shouldn't be? only if you're doing a specific get_class($obj) === '\DateTime' check would change?
speaking of which - that RFC would allow 'proper' type hinting for the $format and $time params as string right? Because a child can still widen the type to nothing
 
@Stephen I'm out walking, can you email?
 
@Derick sure. I sent a brief one already, will continue the conversation there. Enjoy your walk!
 
10:02 AM
@MateKocsis interesting idea, AWS machines are tricky though because of noisy neighbor problems. I'd consider techempower.com/benchmarks the gold standard in benchmarking languages and frameworks.
 
10:25 AM
Hello :)
 
10:52 AM
안녕하세요
 
 
1 hour later…
11:55 AM
ok, next question, who do we have to throw money at, to make generics a thing?
 
AAA
I mean PHP is open source...
 
@AAA ... what does that have to do with anything?
 
@AAA your point?
just because it is open source doesn't mean that throwing money at it won't help
 
AAA
And just because it seemed like you knew what I was talking about, doesn't mean you do (no offence).
I wasn't referring to the throw money part
 
@AAA .. then what?
 
AAA
12:00 PM
I mean I'm a OTT guy but if its open sourced then the possibility to extend it yourself is there
 
@AAA oh, that argument. yeah no thanks, im not super keen on maintaining my own fork of php with whatever half-baked generics implementation I might happen to get working
 
AAA
Haha, I meant it more as a joke really, wasn't that funny
 
@AAA I first thought that that might be it, but it didn't make sense, because maintaining a fork of something as big as php is a herculean task. The main solution is through RFC and convincing someone from core team to write it.
 
AAA
Yes, if anything you'll want it in the official one, that's just logical.
I used to use Linux and did a lot of Laravel for my job. I used to use Laravel Valet, but I can't seem to find a good fork for windows, is there a good alternative that anyone can recommend?
If you've never used laravel valet, its a development environment with dns spoofing and handling for multiple sites out the box, dynamically.
 
@mega6382 Im honestly surprised there haven't been any publicly-acknowledge 'sponsored' RFCs yet
@AAA ... I tend to rely on Vagrant + a host manager plugin - either writes to the hosts file (on the host OS) or one that integrates with a local DNS server if you prefer that approach
 
AAA
12:09 PM
Thank you I will check it out.
 
@Stephen yeah, but I have heard that some core members consult for various companies and write their "solutions" as extensions or something
 
@mega6382 makes sense.
 
12:59 PM
@mega6382 still playing games?
 
not for a while now, ram modules in my system blew up and now I only have 4 gb of ram, I haven't been able to buy new ones. Because the main market where they are sold is closed off, and online services aren't that good in my country.
:(
 
F
 
what about you? still playing overwatch? or some other games now?
 
Not since Jan, I started a new job and wanted to focus on it for a while
Now I am comfortable enough to spare some time for gaming
I'll probably start playing again Fortnite
4000 games and 0 wins still :)
 
lol, I wasn't ever able to win in that either
 
1:10 PM
i know, its a hard game to win
 
1:40 PM
@Stephen I honestly think Nikita is the most apt person to actually implement generics. I could do as well, but it'd be a fulltime job for a couple months (that is, unless you're willing to spend 10k+€)
 
@beberlei thanks for the link! I'd prefer adopting some of their guidelines, but creating a separate benchmark suite. Btw apparently, they also use AWS for the cloud tests. Do you know any way to mitigate the noisy neighbour effect? Would it be possible to do by requesting a special environment from AWS?
 
@Stephen Generics is something that Nikita has been experimenting it. Which semantics make sense, and what the syntax is is going to be more of a problem there I think.
 
2:08 PM
If it cost 10k for generics a gofundme would easily raise that :P
I mean, someone would have to decide what the new next-most-asked for feature would be though
 
Hey! Looks like my email inbox isn't subscribed to the php-internals mailing list anymore. What's the latest procedure of re-subscribing ?
 
2:26 PM
It doesn't randomly get unsubscribed...
 
If you bounce enough I think it unsubscribes you no?
 
@PaulDragoonis What email address were you subscribed with? (just domain wil do)
In any case, it's a one liner for me to resubscribe you
 
@Derick dragoonis@gmail.com will do, I don't want to use my @php.net since it's an unncessary hop (@php.net goes to my @gmail)
 
done
 
2:41 PM
@beberlei it seems that it's possible to eliminate noise via dedicated instances. I found a mongoDB article where they write about this.
 
Probably cheaper to run it 50 times vs paying for a dedicated node.
 
@Derick thank you! Can you explain to m what BC issue exists with @@ ?? Is there a php parser break? or just a runtime break with double supress?
 
@PaulDragoonis it goes in pretty big detail on the mailing list
most of us are tired of discussing it at this point
 
I've fully read this thread - externals.io/message/111101
 
@PaulDragoonis TL;DR, it's not really a BC break, but some of the static analyzer authors have said it will be difficult for them to lex @@, and most of us just don't like the appearance of @@
 
2:57 PM
I'm fully uptodate with externals.io/message/111101, and the older threads, as I took the time to vote on the RFC (albeit @@). It appears new things have came to light since and that's why Derick has put togther another RFC.
 
and @@ doesn't do multi-line, but that can be debated if that's even worth it
there was a technical issue with @@ but it was fixed with Nikita's namespace policy RFC
 
It doesn't allow for grouping though
 
I wanted clarification if there's an engine parser BC break that's came to light, since I last voted on "@@" .. or it was to make the lives of PHPCS easier (which is important IMO). It looks like there's no engine BC break that's came to light, and that's what I wanted confirmation of.
 
Which got accepted through wiki.php.net/rfc/…
 
@Derick oh thats good to hear. its often mentioned "hey if we do X it might be a problem later for generics" but I've not seen much actual discussion of generics outside of that context.
 
3:08 PM
I'm leaning towards what Sara's conclusion is, that there's issues with all 3 syntaxes.

I feel like if idiots are doing @@ in their code, then we should pick that up in userland tooling (AST-check?) to help projects migrate to PHP8.
 
@Tiffany I feel like its gonna end in one of those "well you children couldn't agree, so now you get to use Cyrillic characters for it"
 
I'd like confirmation that I understand this correctly. By using #[], it makes comments starting with # no longer syntactically valid, is this right? or have I misunderstood.
 
That's correct, #[ would be interpreted as attributes
 
What about # I am a comment
 
No effect
 
3:10 PM
Hi Mark :)
I'm going to say that comments with #[ are going to be VERY RARE!

Comments with # are rare themselves, but used here and there.
 
We should just get rid of them entirely in 9 \o/
 
@MarkR $comment = 'This does stuff for $REASONS'
 
@Stephen I think I've an angle on the createFromFormat thingy, I'm emailing you now.
 
@Mark - I'm agreeing with you, but I think for 8 we need to still support it to make PHP8 as migrat-able as possible (as little BC as possible)
 
That's not really what PHP8 is about... as a major it's deliberately full of BC breaks
 
3:12 PM
@Derick never before have I had someone email me to discuss a piece of paid work that is described as a "thingy". :P
 
@PaulDragoonis We couldn't find it: grep.app/search?q=%40%5B&filter[lang][0]=PHP
@Stephen I like "thingy" :-D
 
thingy ftw! in Scotland we have "hingy", because our 't' is removed. ...
Conflusingly "hing" means "hang", but "hingy" means "thingy"
 
@PaulDragoonis removed? surgically? Edit.. wot?
 
Tha Gaidhlig cho gorach.
 
3:16 PM
@PaulDragoonis Did you finish it yet btw? I've moved onto Welsh
 
@Derick no. Embarassingly you know more Gaidhlig than me.. I live in Wales now (migrated), so I'm learning more Welsh as I live here.
 
@Stephen You've got mail!
 
I do indeed! Any further thoughts on whether this can make it into 8?
and/or about adding the missing type hints, now that descendent classes are free to widen the parameter types
sorry that was stuff I mentioned here and didn't add to the email earlier, if that makes zero sense to you
 
Thingamajig
 
@Tiffany is that an alternative to thingy, or an alternative to @@, #[, <<, et al?
 
3:27 PM
Can't see why we can't fix this bug in PHP 8.0
I am not sure whether I get your point on the type hints?
It's already return typehinted with:
 
@Derick right now if a descendent tries to typehint $time and $format as strings, it errors because the signature doesn't match, and parameters can only be widened not narrowed.
 
 ZEND_BEGIN_ARG_WITH_RETURN_OBJ_TYPE_MASK_EX(arginfo_date_create_from_format, 0, 2, DateTime, MAY_BE_FALSE)
 
I meant parameter type hint not return type hint
 
oh
 
string $format instead of $format etc.
 
3:29 PM
that's already done
 
oh nice.
 
ZEND_BEGIN_ARG_WITH_RETURN_OBJ_TYPE_MASK_EX(arginfo_date_create_from_format, 0, 2, DateTime, MAY_BE_FALSE)
ZEND_ARG_TYPE_INFO(0, format, IS_STRING, 0)
ZEND_ARG_TYPE_INFO(0, datetime, IS_STRING, 0)
ZEND_ARG_OBJ_INFO_WITH_DEFAULT_VALUE(0, timezone, DateTimeZone, 1, "null")
ZEND_END_ARG_INFO()
 
a lesser man would have just asked for more $ to add that :P
 
the IS_STRING is there for $format and $datetime (renamed from $time)
If you let me know which code snippets you expect to work, I can work with that too.
 
@Stephen thingy
 
3:38 PM
@Derick sure, let me see what I have in the existing child classes that relates to static methods like that
ah ok so the only other method I see here, is overriding createFromMutable (for the same reason). This particular piece was originally written pre-7.0 so it didn't cater to the newer createFromImmutable, but I assume that has the same behaviour (I dont think I've ever used that method to be honest?)
 
Are we certain that, due to @@ having no closing tag, that it makes extending it later really difficult?

I think having extensibility is more important, and worth "#[" comments BC break
 
has the attribute syntax conversation gone full circle now? I thought the arguments for @@ were about it not needing a "closer", and now having a closer is a an argument against @@.
 
That's correct, while not having a closing tag is perhaps visually more pleasing in simple cases, not having a closing tag makes any future extension potentially much harder, as well as blocking off certain things entirely, such as grouping
 
@MarkR right, so am I missing why << / >> is not back on the table then?
I mean besides because everyone is sick of this conversation already
 
@Stephen In the last vote, << >> ranked last of all choices, making the prospect of it winning any future vote extremely unlikely.
 
3:55 PM
+1 - << >> was bottom of the pile, with #[] much more favoured. I also think Generic will eventually hit PHP, and we don't want attribute and generics being undistinguishable for sure. Therefore, #[] for attrs and Some kind of < > syntax for Generics would be nice.

From what I've read today and clarified here I'm going to update my vote to #[]

The BC break here is much less of an issue on #[], than it is with @@.

Someone should make an increased effort to make sure all @@ voters are prompted to re-read the new status-quo and vote respectivley.
 
@MarkR I just find it quite ironic that every argument in the "shorter attributes" RFC against << / >> also applies to #[]
 
@Stephen I figured that one too, yes.
@PaulDragoonis @@ breaks something too.
/me has no issue with << >> FWIW
 
@Derick I know, and I'm saying I think the damage done by introducing this feature, is much less severe on "#[" comments, than it is on #[]
 
@PaulDragoonis I'm sorry but I fail to see how anyone who can read the screen will confuse the attribute and the generic. Unless you also think people get confused by $a << $b and $a < $b now?
 
@Stephen in that case, let's defer the generics conversation for now, and focus on @@ vs #[], since those are the already-defined preferences.
Bottom line for me. The only BC break is that comments with "#[" aren't gonna work and I find that extremely rare and very easy to fix, compared to some magical supression shit. If a codebase ends up doing @@ then it's likely really badly designed and more problematic to make such amendments (For php8). than making a comment-based amendment.

We gain grouping, closing tag (for extensibility) and the BC break is more minimal.

Does this accurately reflect the conversations(s) to date?
 
4:04 PM
@Derick any thoughts on adding "revert to << >>" to the "change change" RFC?
 
With #[] we gain grouping ***
 
@PaulDragoonis The BC break for #[] is larger than for @@. The latter isn't useful for anything, but it can be useful for comments to begin with a bracket (e.g. commenting out an array, or creating checkboxes). There is definitely code like this in the wild.
 
@Stephen I think that Benjamin was suggesting that too
@TheodoreBrown "data required"
 
@Derick I mean, given that the RFC says "Please keep in mind that we want the best syntax, and not necessarily the best looking syntax." it seems like a no-brainer to me
 
@Derick Two examples on the first page of grep.app/search?q=%23%5B&filter[lang][0]=PHP
 
4:06 PM
zero BC break (right?), it's what people voted for the first damn time , etc
 
Data is not the plural of anecdote
 
We know #[ is used in existing code. Is there any data showing that @@ is used in an existing codebase?
 
... @TheodoreBrown you realise the irony of saying "the result should not be overturned" when trying to get people to accept an RFC that overturned a previous one re: syntax, and both different (new) options it provides introduce BC breaks?
by your own words, why shouldn't the syntax of the original RFC stand?
 
One could say.. it's like rain on your wedding day
 
I have a php script with "exit;" at start of the line, i saw in the access logs this: xx.xxx.xxx - 02/Aug/2020:15:06:38 -0000 "POST " 200 /path/to/script.php 0.001 2048 1949.32%
Log format: access.format = "%{REMOTE_ADDR}e - %u %t \"%m %r%Q%q\" %s %f %{seconds}d %{kilo}M %C%%"
1949.32% cpu usage, how is this possible? I have 4 CPU Cores and this script only have the exit command
 
4:13 PM
@MarkR shut up that isn't ironic
 
@Stephen The Shorter Attribute Syntax RFC introduced new alternatives that hadn't been voted on before. The new RFC proposes to re-vote on a syntax that has already been declined.
 
@Stephen Don't ya think?
 
The "new" @@ syntax now doesn't allow for grouping, where is the specific vote on that?
 
@TheodoreBrown yes, alternatives that introduce BC breaks, for the sake of appearances. If that isn't a technical issue I dont know what is.
 
@Derick See my email on list. It was explicitly documented in the Shorter Attribute Syntax RFC as well as the Attribute Amendments RFC.
@Stephen @@ also avoids the technical issues with implementing nested attributes using new Attr.
 
4:20 PM
@TheodoreBrown so again: introduce a BC, because you dont like the look of two characters. The first "wait lets change this" RFC specifically says the only reason the original didn't include nested Attributes using <</>> was "there was general agreement among the implementers that this approach crosses a line of unacceptable ugliness"
 
@Stephen Yeah, there was general agreement that nesting <<>> became too verbose and unreadable. That's why Benjamin and Martin pursued the new Attr syntax for awhile, but ran into technical problems since it would require major changes to constant expressions.
 
@MateKocsis Thanks for sharing it, interesting read indeed
 
@TheodoreBrown general agreement? it specifically says "the implementors", and it was never voted on. So, no. Sorry but that is not "general agreement", that is "the people who wrote it think".
Even the example that tries to highlight how "verbose" it is: using the nested <<>>, they're 8 characters out of 106. Using @ you'd save 6 characters. SIX GOD DAMN CHARACTERS OUT OF 100
 
Well, you can look back on the discussions about it in this room. There was general agreement with others including Nikita.
 
I don't think there is a good case for wanting to use nested attributes anyway
 
4:30 PM
Having instances as arguments I think makes sense
 
@TheodoreBrown still not voted on. Let me know when Nikita changes his name to "God of PHP" and you'll have a point.
 
The choice between <<>>, @@, and #[] was voted on with a clear outcome.
 
@TheodoreBrown right, so because the RFC you like passed, "oh we must respect the RFC process". Funny how you weren't saying that when people had already voted to accept the RFC specifying "<<>>".
 
Then new information came to light... information that would have invalidated the vote. While this was rectified via an external change, what it did do was direct attention towards the wider implications of @@ vs something with a closing tag, causing additional debate, and here we are.... fortunately it's not a government and there are no fixed terms
 
So far however, nobody has agreed that they like @@ here with you, which indicates it's by far not a "choice" which has general support.
 
4:33 PM
@MarkR does your cat lay on your arm, or lay directly in front of your keyboard? -_-
(yes, cat conversation again)
 
@Tiffany all of the above
 
she is currently laying on my left arm, so it is pinned to my keyboard (at least it isn't my right arm), and resting her head on my rubik's cube
cats, man
 
@Stephen I'm not sure what you mean. Did the Shorter Attribute Syntax RFC violate a rule?
 
@Tiffany we rescued two kittens a few days ago. At this stage given the way my son treats them im not sure if sometimes they'd rather be back on the street.
 
@Stephen how so? ... I would make a suggestion, but I'm not a parent and I don't want make presumptions
and it would come off as dismissive
 
4:40 PM
@TheodoreBrown You're complaining that people "already voted". But they had also already voted when that vote was held: plenty of RFCs are voted down because people don't like the syntax. They don't usually vote yes, then hold another vote to change the syntax to something they prefer and introduce some BC for shits and giggles.
 
The difference is that the Shorter Attribute Syntax RFC was voting on something new. It did not re-vote on the declined @: syntax, for example. If it had that would violate the 6 month minimum before re-voting on a rejected proposal.
 
@Tiffany he's four, and his experience with pets so far is a few quick growing puppies who started out ~cat sized and got to medium/large dog size within a couple of months (and thus he can't just pick them up and carry them around like a cat). I don't think he wants to hurt them, but due to their size (and particularly weight) he can be a bit rough sometimes.
@TheodoreBrown look up with binoculars and you might see my point mate. it seems to be completely over your head.
 
@Stephen I see, that's understandable. The "suggestion" I was going to make is trying to make him understand that the cats are conscience animals, but ... again, I'm not a parent, and I have no idea how to do that
but, seems like he already understands that, just doesn't know what is rough and what isn't :P
 
@Tiffany yeah its a common theme. He's half-"white" so he's usually a lot taller and heavier than other local (asian) kids his age. He embodies the phrase "doesn't know his own strength"
 
on the bright side, maybe they'll help with the geckos :P
 
4:51 PM
@Tiffany haha you remembered!
they might help with the small ones (probably regular size geckos most people think of) in the house. the big ones (the rat sized ones) are all outside, and typically at least half way up a 2 storey wall.
besides without the big geckos what am I gonna do for fun?
 
teach the kittens to climb up the house? lol
 
kitten bazooka it is
 
lol
 
5:06 PM
... I returned at a very strange point in the conversation.
 
🐱JitOff ... Cattributes.
 
@MarkR why not? There's probably even a # like emoji
 
@Stephen #️⃣OfCourseThereIs
 
@IluTov there you go. Problem solved. Who says emojis aren't useful
 
@Stephen Jokes aside, we actually still have quite a few unambiguous start symbols.
Jul 30 at 16:57, by IluTov
All symbols: !"%&()*+,-./:;<=>?@[\]^`{|}~
Unambiguous start symbols: %*/<=>^|
 
5:15 PM
@IluTov if you say that the conversation will never end
 
This RFC... will never end. Yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started voting for it not knowing what it was, and they will keep on voting forever just because...
 
😂
 
@Crell Well, if the feature makes it into PHP 8.0 that will automatically stop the conversation. ^^
Because whatever syntax is in master at that moment will be what we'll stick with forever, for the worse or better
Rhyme not intentional :P
 
You didn't mean to rhyme, but it did fit in time. For me, that's just fine.
 
Nyx
Hey there, I have a quick question, I am trying to include a different file depending on an option selected from a dropdown list, I say if selected = value, do this $("#includesdata").html("<?php include('data.php'); ?>"); and then what happens is that instead of getting data.php included within the rest of the HTML code, when I inspect I get the php code commented out like this <!--<?php include('data.php'); ?>--> Does anyone know what am I doing wrong
Haven't googled anything yet, I am kind in a hurry
 
5:20 PM
@Nyx PHP is interpreted by the server, what you're doing here is injecting PHP code into the DOM through JavaScript, that won't work.
You'll have to create another call to the server through Ajax that renders the given template (data.php, assuming that even is a template).
 
Nyx
I'll give my best to try and figure it out, thank you for the directions
 
@Crell Was it easier to get voting rights at some point? How did 1800 people manage to get voting rights?
 
Probably.
/me wonders if his docs work so far is enough to bother trying.
 
@Crell something worth noting is having the intention to continue contributing
make sure it's not a one-off thing
 
5:32 PM
Plenty of docs gaps left...
 
then note that when you sign up :P
but yes, like Mark said, just do it
 
@Crell Go for it. I don't think anybody here would have a problem with you having voting rights given your long term commitment to the project.
 
^^^^
just be careful with the form... read it very carefully
it has troll-y questions, intentionally
 
Heh, the checkboxes look like a captcha. :-)
 
Dec 11 '19 at 16:52, by Mark R
I'm still sore from being mocked by that form
Dec 11 '19 at 17:16, by cmb
That form has the most sophisticated CAPTCHA ever developed. :P
 
5:37 PM
Tiffany is a master of the backscroll search...
Whelp, form submitted, and signed up for the doc list.
 
Which mailing list did you send it to?
 
doc
 
oh, another mailing list that does practically nothing except receive automated anouncements xD
 
Whee!
 
Ah, I found some legit posts hinding among the automated. Wonder if thunderbird can filter the automated ones out somehow
I see it there now. Good luck.
 
6:03 PM
@Crell are you asking for an account mainly to get voting rights?
 
Is "all of the above" a viable answer? I expect to continue doing docs stuff, and I am trying to get into core work as well. Slowly.
 
Ok, I'd like it if you keep doing what you're doing with the docs and come back after a few more PRs.
 
What exactly is the threshold number, then? I've had 5 so far, I believe, all merged. (The lack of clarity around this point is part of the problem.)
 
@IluTov It is still very easy to get voting privs.
 
@Crell You've already said you're doing docs changes in order to get voting privileges. I want to see that you're doing docs changes, for the benefit of the documentation, not as a path to being able to vote on RFCs.
 
6:17 PM
The new page on preloading isn't for the benefit of the documentation?
 
@salathe How would it be even possible to judge that now? Intent seems of little relevance compared to the result.
 
Having __serialize/__unserialize documented doesn't benefit the documentation?
 
I'm not going to get in to this now. But it's a no from me.
 
I mean, IMO nothing should ever get merged by the author, ever, for any reason, in which case someone could rewrite half the docs and still not technically need direct VCS access. But I realize that's the way PHP works, so I'm trying to play by what minimal rules there are.
Then what would change your no to a yes? From your statements, I legit have no idea what threshold is "enough" other than "I don't think you care about a vote."
 
I have a git workflow question (not specific to php-src, but just wondering from a general POV). I'm making multiple PRs to a repo, proofreading different markdown files in the repo. I'm making branches based on the changes, for example if the change is a simple typo or formatting fix. I'm also creating branches where I think wording can be improved. For branches where I think wording can be improved, should I branch off of master, or should I branch off a typo/format fix branch (if it exists)?
(making multiple branches/PRs was requested by the author, which is why I'm doing it that way)
 
6:25 PM
I'd say as far up the tree as feasible. Eg, if a rewording and a formatting fix would be a git conflict, together in a branch or one PRed off the other. If not, separate PRs off master.
 
in order to make separate PRs, AFAIK, they have to be separate branches
 
Yes.
 
but generally the rewording branch would include the typo/format fix branch anyway
 
If you do them directly on GH doesn't it have the ability to do a combined edit/pr ?
 
At least for me, I'd say make them separate commits but same PR/branch is fine. I cannot speak for the maintainer of that repo, though.
 
6:27 PM
I guess I'll ask him when he's around
 
6:50 PM
What does a person sing when granting karma? youtube.com/watch?v=JmcA9LIIXWw
 
7:08 PM
why doesn't doc.php.net have https?
 
That sounds like a PHP infrastructure question :P
 
and why is edit.php.net down?
 
7:37 PM
second answer much like the first.
 
lol
its seems like its been moved to edit-new.php.net but the social sign in options aren't working on it.
 
So on the topic of systems, who would be a good person to contact about getting a subdomain? I asked for one about 5 months ago via the github systems repo but to no avail
 
7:56 PM
a php.net subdomain?
 
indeed
 
try the internals or create an rfc with the proposal for what the system on that subdomain would be, I guess.
 
cmb
8:09 PM
@MarkR DM systems@ (sometimes you get a response)
 
@cmb ok, so whats the plan for this? its been almost a month since the last comment on that bug
 
marc.info/?l=phpdoc&m=159611221426663&w=2 there's this, but I don't know anything else from that
 
8:26 PM
hmm, interesting
 
are you subscribed to the phpdocs mailing list?
 
I don't think so
 
you should subscribe to it :)
 
done :)
I finally had some free time, I thought I might work on the docs, and all this happens :(
 
@cmb Ok thanks. I'll drop Sascha a direct email.
 
8:42 PM
!!rfcs
@PeeHaa yo, is jeeves down?
 
@mega6382 this is one way of contributing github.com/php/doc-en
but they take a little longer to migrate over to SVN/php.net
 
yeah, I saw that
@cmb what are the plans for docs editors? is there any plan on restoring it? or making a better one? etc
 
Hmmm is there a reason 7.2.30 doesn't have a branch on php-src?
 
That's 7.2.3 not 7.2.30
 
8:52 PM
isn't that the same thing?
 
Hey @Sara is this something you can provide any info on? I just noticed when I was trying to scrape the NEWS files that 7.2.30 doesn't have a branch on github
 
I just checked and there are branches with and without trailing 0, what is the main difference in them?
 
.30 comes after .29 -- .3 comes after .2
 
ok, so .2 is actually .02
 
Yes, each bit of the version is completely independent so it's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 etc
 
8:58 PM
well its easy to misunderstand
thanks for clarifying :)
 
cmb
@mega6382 I don't know. :)
 
I guess @salathe would know, he is the main person on docs, i think. ping
 
cmb
@MarkR well, that release had no commits (it was tagged only because of a Windows dependency library update which fixed a CVE)
 
Shit, did I top post? >.<
 
good mornings
 
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