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12:32 AM
Evening folks
 
Evening
 
How's the day been?
 
I've seen the chat log
 
I got around to updating the data on my prototype php website, so that's something... and had two cans of tango I found and put in the fridge, so that's something else.
 
12:39 AM
Neat²!
 
Currently trying to decide how I can reinforce my wall area to be able to support another 3 monitors in a 4 up 2 down
 
what size monitors?
 
How many monitors do you currently have? O.o
 
2x 27" on the bottom and 1x 24" up top. I want an extra (at least) 2, one dedicated to server monitoring and one for communications tools.
 
Low-key want to see your current setup
Cause I only got 1 monitor ATM, I really need to get a secondary one
 
12:52 AM
my very dusty mouse mat
 
That's a pretty clean set-up I must say
Maybe minimalistic is a better word$
 
No tower in this room so it's just screens and peripherals.
 
@MarkR I think we may have the same type 27" monitor
but I only have one
 
Dell Ultrasharp U2715H - Pretty decent for editing photos once calibrated.
 
nevermind, mine is 25"... Dell UltraSharp U2515Hx
close though, lol
my iMac was 27", I think that's why I got the two mixed up
 
12:58 AM
The Samsung Odyssey G9 looked sooo good... but be damned if I'm paying £1500 for a 49" monitor that doesn't have full array local dimming.
Which did kinda suck, because my original plan was to get one of those and move my two 27" monitors up. Would be epic for gaming :P
 
@MarkR How far away do you sit?
 
I wish I still had pictures of my dad's old setup, from around 2007... About eight or nine monitors at one point, but three displayed TV channels
 
@LeviMorrison about arms length
 
IMO way too close for that amount of screen-estate.
 
well, arm and a half, just checked. Couldn't survive without dual 27"
 
1:06 AM
He had two monitors set up to display four channels at once, so he could watch nine channels... why he would want to, I dunno
Only the one which had one channel, had sound, the rest didn't
 
As standard we usually equip our webcast and broadcast producers with 4x screens.
We occasionally use big 4K TVs at conferences to show all the streams we're doing at once (multiple dozens)
 
Nyk
1:21 AM
Hi all, I've got a stupid question, I have this code right after I store my session variables in my login page.
$t_sql = "UPDATE users SET last = now() WHERE username = '$username'";
$t_result = mysqli_query($link,$t_sql);
It's such a simple code and for the life of me I can't figure out why the table won't update. Are any of you up for helping me? I feel like I'm just tired and missing something very obvious.
 
Well based on how you've wrote it, I suspect you might first wish to read over this little tidbit: w3schools.com/sql/sql_injection.asp
 
Nyk
@MarkR I use mysqli_stmt_bind_param for all of the actual login system, seemed unnecessary for the last login code as the user isn't entering anything in for that.
 
I would be looking to what ends up in it then. Make sure you know the exact query then run it in something external like workbench
 
2:02 AM
Does anyone know how to test a library against PHP 8.0 on travis-ci?
 
 
4 hours later…
6:27 AM
morns
 
7:02 AM
morning
I saw Joe has declined wiki.php.net/rfc/shorter_attribute_syntax_change what's it gonna be with the atatattributes now?
 
@brzuchal to be honest, I prefer <<atr>> over all others that have been proposed.
 
Good morning.
 
\o
 
I like #[] but nevertheless we need to clarify and/or decide
 
# is used for comments in php, so I think that it will be confusing for some people and might seem like a phpdoc feature rather than php feature. And in older versions of IDE/editors it will appear as a comment too.
The best option is definitely @atr, since that is what other languages use, but that is not possible due to various parsing errors that might occur, so...
 
7:27 AM
@mega6382 <<...>> is the best from the technical side but for rather subjective reasons, a lot of people want #[...]
I like <<...>> too but that seems like a ship that already sank
 
@mega6382 The reason why it's already is interpreted by most IDE as a comment IMO already works in favour, cause attributes are metadata so their importance is less than the actual code.
 
hmmm, I suppose so.
 
8:30 AM
I have another question regarding my PR github.com/php/php-src/pull/5896 (it is my first pr to php-src): Is it affected by the feature freeze tomorrow? Who can merge it?
 
@Tiffany Your last mail to internals went to my spam folder
 
@MateKocsis help, I'm lost with some of the OpenSSL messages D:
 
cmb
8:46 AM
@gharlan I have merged it. Thanks for the PR!
 
Hm, still not sure what to do about the "undefined array index" part of wiki.php.net/rfc/engine_warnings
 
Well, 42 "change it to warning"
worst case, people will start suppressing warnings (already the case :P )
 
9:02 AM
@NikiC BTW about the illegal offset one, SPL Array still produces a Warning
I wanted to change that this WE but huuuuu life got in the way
 
@cmb Cool, thanks! :)
 
Can anyone point me at a genuinely interesting use of Generator::send?
 
9:17 AM
@Girgias fixed
 
@NikiC May I nudge you again to see whether you're interested in talking about the namespace token change? I promise we won't talk about attributes.
 
@Derick when?
 
What works for you? I don't think I can sneak you into my schedule today. Wednesday at 13:00 BST/14:00 CEST?
Otherwise perhaps Friday 10 BST/11 CEST?
 
@Derick Let's do Friday
@Derick We gotta mention attributes tho :P
 
OK, do we have to? ;-)
I'll email you the "script" in a bit
 
9:47 AM
@brzuchal The plan is to create a new RFC with more syntax options, not just #[]. mail-archive.com/internals@lists.php.net/msg103448.html
Who's gonna create that RFC? I have no idea.
Probably @Derick
 
10:05 AM
Hi, i built rss feed with instagram image links , but when using &amp; in rss feed, the links are broken.. anyway to fix this ?
https://instagram.fhyd1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/s640x640/116551749_188893475931012_5273903565040763894_n.jpg?_nc_ht=instagram.fhyd1-2.fna.fbcdn.net&_nc_cat=100&_nc_ohc=XoRJGZ6qWcYAX-GfLtT&oh=5e683c2ba8547d538d3990091e9be3ba&oe=5F52692B
if i use &, then rss feed is invalid,
 
10:28 AM
@Srinivas08 You'll have to be more specific. How is it broken? What are you trying to do exactly?
 
@IluTov Yes.
 
13 hours ago, by IluTov
@mega6382 This is the code in question https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/5922/commits/9aabf729bb424bdbc329e3fb972f261c085edf43#diff-3dad27dbb9ddcf24c3203938026a9d34R12205-R12229 This test fails: https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/ext/opcache/tests/match/003.phpt#L64-L74 With the 1 not being printed and last jump jumping into random memory. It seems to be an off by one error but I have no idea why. The almost equivalent works for switch.
So I found out this only happens for integer expressions. Adding or appending another element in the match will also fix it. Probably something with alignment :/
 
10:53 AM
Ah fuck, packed hashmaps have a different memory layout, that's why the test breaks -.- Switch handles packed jumptables differently, I thought that was just an optimization and I'd implement that after the default case works...
 
G'day! Just wishing you all a happy monday and hope you all have a productive week :)
 
Morning
 
o/
 
@MateKocsis yeah, it happened to a few people. I'm not sure what I can do about it.
 
@Tiffany I had to switch to Gmail because that happened with my Apple mail address :/
 
11:08 AM
I sent from my Gmail and it went to spam for people, heh
 
@Tiffany Maybe try switching to iCloud xD
 
@IluTov not sure I have one of those
 
@Tiffany Haha don't, it was just a joke ^^
 
I could install SMTP on my VPS and try that but I don't wanna
Something else I have to keep secure
but FWIW, I didn't know that mail was going to internals as well... I thought it was only phpdocs, lol
 
11:54 AM
I just had to change an internet banking password, because the existing, random password (i.e. generated by a password manager) had hyphens in it, and their new mobile app simply won't allow typing the hyphen and prevents pastes of a string with a hyphen in it.
Imagine if someone in tech did a Ramsay style "software nightmares"
even with the rantiest of us I imagine it'd have less swearing still
 
12:30 PM
@Derick @beberlei Are you also going to implement the grouped attribute syntax?
 
github.com/php/php-src/pull/5928 what? @[]? I follow php.internals but I might have lost something :D
 
It was discussed a bit in this room last week.
 
Morning
 
@TheodoreBrown ah you are right, I can port this from Martin's patch
 
@TheodoreBrown Cool!
 
12:35 PM
@StatikStasis o/
 
@StatikStasis you missed out on Saturday :D
 
What happened?
Oh! You were streaming!
 
@StatikStasis a thing
2
 
Sorry I missed. Son turned 18 Saturday. Was celebrating with the family. =)
 
Gratz!
 
12:37 PM
Oh my
@StatikStasis hopefully it was fun :)
 
@Derick What are you doing to your nipples? =P i.imgur.com/eycXseo.png
 
I was pointing at my branding
 
Odd place for nipples
 
Man, I hate I missed it.
 
12:45 PM
@StatikStasis Are Ekin and Pieter actually living together or just meeting?
 
Pretty sure they live together in Turkey.
 
@StatikStasis there will hopefully be more...hopefully
 
We've been living together for 3 years now :-)
 
@bwoebi It's a three year meeting :)
 
12:47 PM
@Ekin I wasn't so sure, but never really asked :-D
 
:-)
 
I know both living in Turkey and close… but not that close :-P
 
:-D yeah, he's kinda stuck with me
 
@Tiffany I'm disappointed I have not seen any cats yet.
@PeeHaa And where are your turntables? They should be in the background.
 
@StatikStasis she was laying on the desk most of the time. I do show her off a couple times, but I don't think it was on stream
 
12:50 PM
@GabrielCaruso its sort of a compromise, giving up forward compatiblity of #[] but also its problems, using the familiar @ but also with a closing symbol
 
@StatikStasis No turntables (as of right now) and we are out of our apartment :)
 
Is this the only instance of the online awkward meetup, or will there be another one?
 
there better be moar
and with more 11ers :-)
 
first one was an experiment, a moderately successful experiment
 
@beberlei I have no problems at all, just want to know where I lost the messages/emails :P
 
1:00 PM
@Danack Awaiting you in whereby
 
Well- time to get some work done. I'm on vacation next week and have lots to wrap up on.
Have a good day all.
 
o/
 
@Ekin You both look made for each other! //cc @PeeHaa =)
 
Did you just insult Ekin?
 
1:15 PM
lol, God I hope not.
 
:P
 
:-D
 
something the stream misses is when @PeeHaa says "callables"
it sounded like "colorballs"
 
@StatikStasis Congrats! but 18 years or months? how fucking old are you? :P
 
@mega6382 18 years. I'm 38. =)
 
1:26 PM
wow, so you married pretty young.
 
@room when is the next meetup? I missed the one on Saturday because of Eid :(
I have @Wes's t-shirt that I want to wear. :D
 
Whenever it is I want to do an actual short talk and be prepared :)
 
@StatikStasis that's a lot of responsibility at such a young age.
 
Yeah, but I lived pretty wild in my teenage years- so I was ready.
 
1:29 PM
@PeeHaa cool
 
Here is a photo of him- although a few years old. i.imgur.com/y4bbiYQ.jpg
 
I see you gave up on your hair so that he can have a lot of it :D
 
@PeeHaa Not necessarily in that order? #askingforattendants
 
@PeeHaa I know! It's not fair!
@PeeHaa Mine moved south.
 
:)
 
1:37 PM
More recent photo of him, plus my daughter! @PeeHaa @mega6382 i.imgur.com/xsPNA9S.jpg
 
random thought that will need more discussion... to spread out the stress of hosting a virtual meetup, could we alternate who hosts it? obvious requirement would be the host needs the requisite equipment to host and stream
 
:D <3
 
@StatikStasis oh man, your shoes, I have a pair of those, one of my favorite pair of shoes
 
the tie looks photoshopped :D
 
I could be sponsored by Adidas. They're all I will wear.
 
1:39 PM
they were my first pair of high top shoes, I don't think I can ever go back to non-high-top
 
@pmmaga hehe- it's not. My wife bought it for me for Christmas. She needs help finding me in the store when we get separated I guess. =P
 
hahaha
 
Plus I like high contrast in clothing.
 
@StatikStasis You seem to have a great family, may you cherish them with all your heart. Also, what does your son aspire to be? Is he interested in software development?
 
No. Architect.
At least at the moment. He starts college this Fall- we'll see if that changes.
@mega6382 <3
 
1:43 PM
@StatikStasis mild suggestion: send him to a community college, get gen eds out of the way
he can decide if he wants to continue with architect when he graduates with his associate's
then transfer to a university for bachelor's
 
@Tiffany That's what we're doing.
 
when he applies to jobs, only the bachelor's matters, so employers won't care that he went two years at a community college
cool :)
 
Plus it's cheaper that way... way cheaper.
 
yuuuuup
 
2:13 PM
@Girgias Will you have time to fix review comments today?
 
2:43 PM
@MateKocsis yeah, I should be home in 1h30
 
@Girgias are you on a plane? :D
 
Is there any marketing term which should be used for "calling users who have used the app just once"?
 
"annoying" :-)
 
lol In what sense calling? Reminding?
 
"follow up" shrug
 
2:58 PM
@Tiffany just got off one :D
 
@Derick sorry, I didn't realize other people had already mentioned the video lag... I got wrapped up working on something else and only managed to catch the tail end of your stream. The recording also has frame loss though :/
 
Is it still ongoing or has it finished?
 
Yeah, but I made a local recording too. Same problem though :-)
:-( rather
 
Ive just got off a 90 minute zoom call O_O
Replay link? :-)
 
twitch.tv/videos/699120584 at least this is what twitch automatically saves, @Derick may have something else later
 
3:08 PM
It's uploading now. Quality is... shite.
 
Was it 1fps locally?
 
did you use a different video setup/configuration than what you used on Saturday? cause Saturday had no frame loss
 
@Tiffany No, the same
 
weird
 
That is odd indeed.
 
3:12 PM
Different frame...
 
If it's bad, my advice would be to nuke it and re-record it. If it's people's first exposure to xdebug cloud you'll want it to be polished.
 
I'm trying, but it's all crappy right now...
I can't make it work again :S
I'm wondering whether it's just my machine not being fast enough
 
What happened to your 24 core threadripper?
 
that's not the one with all the video/audio stuff plugged in
 
4:13 PM
it's almost tempting to have two machines - one for gaming, one for dev... tired of running into symlink issues on Windows because my guest OS runs some flavor of Linux
 
this is the way
 
just need another box and KVM :P
I could partition, or buy another SSD... that may actually be more cost effective
 
I caved and bought another monitor after all ._. just the 1
 
lol
 
4:43 PM
I'm looking to vote on the new StackFrame (debug_backtrace() alternative RFC. I've noticed there's quite a strong opposition to this. I checked the RFC discussion and can't see any discussion why it's a bad idea? I noticed the PR has some implementation issues, which could be fixed - https://externals.io/message/110868#111090

Please can someone explain to me why there's a strong opposition to this RFC?
 
Maybe one reason is that there were a bunch of last-minute changes to it before voting and it wasn't thought through and discussed sufficiently ahead of time.
 
If the objections have been discussed already in the mailing list (externals URL i posted), then please point me in the right direction. I'm looking for clarification. Thanks
 
@Tiffany Separate machines makes sense as you want a different hardware config for each anyway.
Fancy 3D graphics are a waste of electrons on a dev machine, but required for gaming rig.
 
4:59 PM
indeed... and it seems like I can't progress further in this tutorial because of the symlink issue, even with a couple workarounds :|
 
I used to dual boot. These days I just have the one Linux laptop and a PS4 and call it a day.
I don't game enough to justify a gaming PC.
 
yeah, I seem to do more dev than gaming on my gaming PC now...
 
@Crell ::cries:: Or is it due to not having time to game?
 
And by used to, I mean 20 years ago. I've been GNU/Linux-primary for 17 years or so at this point.
/me waits for @StatikStasis to finish updating his message...
 
Sorry for multiple pings- could not get that edited right.
LOL!
 
5:02 PM
Well, I do manage to run OBS on my big box, and there is no lag there, but it only has one screen, so I can't have OBS and open and me monitoring things, and the other screen my "work" window
 
@Derick I've been thinking about trying original OBS. I have been using Streamlabs OBS. I really like it.
And now that my ISP has finally got their maintenance work complete in the area I love it more since I don't have any drops now.
 
I am sure I can use my laptop screen to show the OBS window, but if I do that, I lose screen capture and audio :-/
 
@PaulDragoonis main thing is it can wait for 8.1.
 
Thanks for the link, and thanks to Tyson for putting together that summary message, referenced. It was useful!

I've voted against this for now, given the dubious benchmarks, and the implementation/design issues highlighted in the PR.
@Danack it definitely can, given it's not breaking BC
 
@PaulDragoonis you just don' thave thousands of stack frames and refetch the stacktrace so often in a single script, so that the less memory argument is not very convincing to justify adding a second API for essentially the same thing
 
5:12 PM
@PeeHaa So when will you guys be moving?
 
couldn't agree more. Why don't we just change the implementation of debug_backtrace() to use CPU/RAM if it's considered important thing to optimize.

I like the idea of the new argument to limit the number of frames.
 
@StatikStasis Moving as in outta the country?
 
@PeeHaa Yeah, Argentina or whatever.
 
Right now south muricas are not a good place to be
So no idea :(
 
How about Murica?
 
5:14 PM
Have you checked the news lately :P
 
I try not to. =P
 
The entire muricas are properly fucked in terms of corona
 
@PeeHaa To be honest, it's not like that everywhere. You have to remember news media make money from ads, so they have to keep you extra worried in order to keep you coming back.
Things are pretty laid back where I am; people are social distancing, wearing masks (some don't). But it's pretty calm.
@PeeHaa How about New Zealand? Me and the wife have talked about moving there one day. Not sure if it will ever come to fruition or not.
 
@StatikStasis I live in an area where the infection rate was pretty low from April-early June... when stay-at-home measures started loosening and people could eat at restaurants again, only about half of the county population were wearing masks, and needless to say, infection rate has spiked over the past month
with Walmart enforcing rule about masks, it seems to be getting better, but I still see a handful of people not wearing masks
 
I only see a handful not wearing them here.
Same with Walmart.
 
5:20 PM
it's only after stores started enacting rules that people started wearing them, it seems
 
The current pandemic changed our normal routine and we took up playing disc golf almost every day because it was something we could do outside and remain away from people.
 
Here the state set the rule, but yeah. Once the signs went up, the compliance ratio did too.
 
@StatikStasis disc gold? :P
 
Corrected. =P
 
I think he meant "disc golf"
 
5:22 PM
I figured as much, but couldn't help ribbing him
 
@StatikStasis The numbers do not lie though :)
 
When I look back at this period in the future, I will always think about disc golf.
 
Disc Golf GOLD EDITION
Where the frisbees are made of ACTUAL GOLD
 
@StatikStasis And get eaten by a snake, fish, spider, wallaby, koala?
:P
 
@PeeHaa Oh yeah, I agree. I was honestly talking about the riots because I thought you were referring to that at first.
 
5:23 PM
Neh. I mean portland is still on fire, but whatever :P
 
@Sara even with IL state setting the rule, about half of county population followed it... granted, my county borders MO, which does not have any mask rules, so who knows how many are MO residents coming over...
 
@PeeHaa I don't think New Zealand is as bad as Australia. I don't know how accurate that is... but I don't "think" it is.
@PeeHaa America is a big place. =)
 
@StatikStasis As I understand it from my colleague it's much better in that regard yeah
 
@PeeHaa Portland is almost 3,000 miles away from me.
@Sara I have some expensive discs... there might be some in them. =P
@PeeHaa 3000 miles = 4828 km
=P
 
Thanks :P
 
5:28 PM
@PeeHaa What is it like in Turkey right now?
 
@NikiC it should be possible in a zend_compile hook to disable JIT just for a single file now since "opcache.jit" can be modified at runtime or?
 
@PaulDragoonis AIUI, the difference is simply the data structure. An object uses less memory than an equivalent associative array, by a factor of 2, so a big list of objects will use half as much memory as the equivalent nested arrays. It's not about the internal logic of the function, just the data structure itself. Plus the general nicer API of defined classes over associative arrays.
 
@StatikStasis In terms corona or in general?
 
Corona.
 
People wear masks mostly here. It's "ok" here
 
5:40 PM
@Tiffany Yeah, us city-folk are a bunch of sheeple. We don't love freedom and we hate America, that's why we're inconveniencing ourselves to protect our neighbors.
 
@Sara I was walking out of a walgreens, this older dude was walking in at the same time, saw the sign saying "masks are required," saw me wearing a mask, and he scowled.
I was judging him pretty hard, but half my face was hidden, so he couldn't see my scowl...
 
Gah, I might just have to buy another screen. Not sure where to put it on my desk though
 
@Derick bolt it to the wall?
 
Can't, shelves in the way
 
get one of those fancy swinging arms, and bolt it to the wall (or your desk), then bolt the extra screen to the swinging arm
 
5:49 PM
@Tiffany Yeah, I don't get these people.
 
Get a mask with a US flag on it. It confuses the hell out of the anti-mask boomers.
 
I mean if the store is asking you to wear one... wear one.
 
@Sara or a MAGA mask, lol
 
Make America Well Again, wear a mask.
 
5:50 PM
I can hear the sad trombone as I try to pronounce that.
 
jellow
 
Related, during raid last night, people were taking song and singer names and altering one letter to make something else. Just good clean mashup fun. Then someone tosses out "Lady Maga" and those of us who googled that name.... were... scarred.
 
I think my favorite is "it puts the mask on its skin, or it gets the lockdown again"
 
@Tiffany "Wha..." "JUST PUT THE FUCKING MASK ON"
 
I agree, Larry, that objects are much better DX than arrays, and direct ZVAL arrays are less performant than the Spl objects. I think in the future we should have a v2 for this RFC with more time to review/discuss the design of the code, as well as more thorough benchmarking to identify more real-world benefits, since the amount of backtraces looked to be way more than what's normally in a PHP app.

In essence, I'm on board with the idea, but we need another stab at it, for sure. At least the first RFC has spurred some interest and gained lots of useful feedback! :-)
 
6:00 PM
@Tiffany is that a silence of the lambs reference?
 
@mega6382 yes
 
Do I dare to upgrade stretch to sid?
 
DO IT
YOLO
GO CURRENT OR GO HOME
 
I need ot make a release tomorrow, if it fails will you take it up? :-)
 
6:26 PM
DO IT... THE DAY AFTER
GO BIG EVENTUALLY or GO HOME when it's convenient
Note that my work box is on Ubuntu 18.04 and will remain so until I can be physically in NYC to fix it if it breaks.
 
too late now, half way through it
 
6:42 PM
@MateKocsis btw I fixed that socket test failure. It caused some other failures, but I think those should be resolved once checks for closed sockets are there
 
@Sara The only thing that broke:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
mongodb-org-server : Depends: libcurl3 (>= 7.16.2) but it is not installable
mongodb-org-shell : Depends: libcurl3 (>= 7.16.2) but it is not installable
:-(
 
if 'cents' is the general name for the bits of a price after the decimal point, is there a generic name for the bit of a price before the decimal point?
 
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