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5:00 PM
twitter.com/SaraMG/status/1174682365215543297 that could be cool, Sara having some fun with declares.
 
@Stephen The definitions are pre-made. github.com/fastpress/framework/blob/master/src/Routing/…
The validator works for the first but not the second uri
/book/{:name}/{:name}/{:id}
/book/{:name}/chapter/{:id}
 
Rejoice! I finally found the perfect job for @Jimbo: jobs.lever.co/scribd/503a16da-a319-42f6-9c73-ee2a6e51d331
 
because this: preg_match("#^$route$#", $uri)
but it's fixed now
 
@Gordon Already seen it on twitter ;) Marco posted I think :P
It's in Canada. I've wanted to live there for a while. Maybe one day
 
5:16 PM
what do you do when the 'get support' functionality of the vendor is buggy, and errors, while trying to get support.
do you ask them to get support for their support so you can get support from them>
if so, how do you ask them, because you can't contact support.
 
and_here_we_go.gif
 
@DaveRandom you need to stop playing hard to get
But yeah, let’s beer up. I spend most of my life in Manchester now, so
 
3 messages moved to Trash
 
@Danack aha that’s funny... that message is now pinned in trash
 
@Danack youtube.com/watch?v=DCQdVo121o8 obligatory rick and morty
 
5:29 PM
Oh you have to be RO to move. Less funny now
 
Blah, I actually got the time wrong for the state of php talk.
 
@peehaa now I broke a thing. Are you able to unpin messages in trash?
 
Nope. Not a room owner there
 
@MadaraUchiha I need an adult please. ^^
 
@MadaraUchiha can you make me and @Danack RO please
Sorry for double ping :P
 
6:03 PM
@Danack this may be a silly question but, is your RFC real or a troll?
 
Real.
 
Okay, thanks :)
 
and yeah....I know our RFC process isn't meant for this, but it exists, and we don't have anything else right now.
Also, our conversations are currently so shit, we can't even have useful conversations about changing the way the project is managed. For example, I strongly think we should clarify who can vote on stuff, and have time limits on how long people can vote on things after their last contribution. But seeing as that would remove some of the people who are being...non-productive currently, that also would be a shitshow.
 
@NikiC re
@Danack Couldn
Couldn't help it but reply to C**
 
I was tempted to change: "although the RFC would only be applicable to messages sent once it might be approved, it would still be nice if people consider how their messages affect other people before then." to add, "so go for it, let it rip, and get it all out of your system now, as this is the last chance".
 
6:13 PM
lmao
@NikiC The EXIF stuff, the check changed back to how it used to be, back then the provided image did cause a crash, but when I was debugging the issue here, I found that with Stas latest changes, that was no longer the case and I verified that with components = 0, we can still have legally parsable images (like the test I fixed that now shows the WINXP specific EXIF tags again).

Re, your mail, the patch looks good from my PoV, I wanted to debug it further but I could not see any faults with the tooling I had available on the machine I did my testing on (Windows), but I was certain there mo
 
@Danack spotted in the new rfc, you have an extra 'be' in the middle of line 2 under Step 2 (to be be contacted)
also, thank you for your efforts on this
 
thanks. Apparently I am really bad at typing. That's after about 10 re-reads.
 
:-) tbf it's easy to miss
 
@Danack Would your RFC list include me even tho I stepped down from the 7.0 RM?
 
yes.
unless you really don't want to.
 
6:29 PM
I’m sure we’ve all learned the hard way that people problems are usually harder to solve than technical problems but it’s still unbelievable that an official process is required because people can’t self-enforce “don’t be dickish”.
 
@Danack I do not mind :)
 
I have a strong suspicion, once we have a method for suspending people, for some reason we might not actually need to use it that much...
 
Me too, because then its not just a "hint"
xdxd
 
This is going to take many reads, and many days, to digest fully. I'm not looking forward to the knee-jerk replies on-list. :P
 
Previous bans were non contributors on the list, but also by a vote, correct ?
 
6:31 PM
@Stephen no. Rasmus just decided. But yes, those were non-contributors.
 
Nope, just complains of obnoxious behavior until Rasmus for example threw the ban hammer at Reindl
All of them were non contributors, Jani quit by himself
 
Oh i misremembered.
 
I know it's a serious matter, but I can't help but imagine a judge presiding over an internals banning session sentencing an offender to 3 years of writing PHP 4 code.
 
I remember I fixed some ext/session issue during the 5.3 development, and for some reason the tests didn't run on Unix or something and he flipped sideways on php-cvs@ to me, was an interesting start at the project xd
Jani oh jani
 
@MarkR apparently for some that wouldn’t be a punishment
 
6:34 PM
I don't think it's fair to say they didn't contribute. They did. Just in a way that was ultimately incompatible with the project.
 
@Stephen .... valid point.
 
@salathe i was under the impression “contributor” in this project’s context is taken as “made non trivial commits/docs/etc”
 
@MarkR Why stop at PHP4, force them to do PHP/FI
 
@salathe I believe Kalle was referring to lester and the Reindl guy who only participated in internals emails.
aka rhsoft.
 
Based on the absence of new posts, I suspect someone might have got the idea that he was in the crosshairs.
 
6:39 PM
@Danack Don't worry about Lester, I already silenced him by removing InterBase
It was a double win
@Danack We also had Tony Marston banned recently
He even wrote a long blog about it: tonymarston.net/php-mysql/on-being-banned.html
 
yeah...apparently he's quite good at seo.
 
@Kalle Wow... I could totally see that post being about Z... uncanny.
 
@Kalle that whole saga is not a bad example to show that the issue is not the view for/against a change, it’s the way the discussion is held
 
@Stephen for some large definition of "etc", sure. :)
 
6:48 PM
Anyway, I'm going to go contribute instead of mulling over topics like this. :P
 
@salathe Soooo hows migration74.xml coming along? :D
 
@PeeHaa wat
 
@MadaraUchiha Can you make me and/or @Danack RO of the trash

Trash

Chat Dustbin (Ignore kar Ignore)
 
@salathe I enabled the migration guide for 7.4 in manual.xml
I know its a WIP
 
7:26 PM
Anyone good with Laravel here?
In order to handle authorization on a resource index I need to know the value of a single field from a related parent model. The problem is that I don't need the whole relationship
so you can do something like $with = ['parent:id,desired_field'] on the child model
but the problem is that Laravel considers the relationship as loaded and then it gets serialized to JSON etc. etc.
 
I asked... someone to clarify a bit around what he said about non-core developers feeling “intimidated” off-list, I’m not so sure the hint is sticking yet
“If that means 50% of the thread is emails from me, so be it. ”
I mean there’s more but that line stood out
 
7:48 PM
@Stephen reading his email reeeally made me want to reply saying why I am intimidated to join discussions in there, which is solely low quality discussions and/or arguments
I've been always interested in the language itself and the general idea of developing a language with all its quirks, but most of the time I find the list really not productive to this regard so I always avoided since I have better mediums
fwiw there's still plenty I've learned by following it without being involved anyway
 
@Ekin i wanted to reply and refute the “non core devs feel intimidated” - intentional or not (he claims he didn’t mean it that way) - the words seem to suggest an “us vs them” where userland devs feel they can’t engage or become involved. He may feel that way, but it’s definitely not a universal thing
But that’s part of the problem - there’s always a follow up, a retort, one more thing,
 
it's indeed not a good generalization. Also I dislike the overuse of "I was talking to x people here and there, they also agreed" to put some level of emphasis every n posts
 
"annecdata."
 
It bothers me that he presents this view, and maybe on its own, without any refuting some of those he claims are “intimidating” will think that is the case.
 
@Stephen that's possibly something worth addressing in an etiquette document. Explicitly say people need to figure out themselves when a conversation has run it's course, rather than both sides trying to 'last hit' continually.
 
7:59 PM
But it would bother me more if responding to refute it, leads down another rabbit hole of bullshit replies
@Danack sounds logical doesn’t it. That there is a need for this rfc doesn’t fill me with confidence how well that would work out
 
I agree, and post what I wrote before again. Many people have learned to 'win' arguments by using tactics that avoid the conversations coming to an end, rather than realising that people can come to different logical conclusions about a topic, based on their values, rather than a breakdown in their understanding of a problem.
 
> We agree to disagree.
 
@Tiffany I don’t agree to that
 
@Stephen Success!
there's a wikipedia page on it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agree_to_disagree
 
8:07 PM
@Tiffany I disagee to agree to disagree. Do you agree?
I’ll stop
 
@Stephen ...yes...I think
 
We'll have to agree to disagree, because you'll never realise how wrong you are.
 
Are you sure? I've never seen a wikipedia page on it.
 
I'm entitled to my opinion or I have a right to my opinion is a logical fallacy in which a person discredits any opposition by claiming that they are entitled to their opinion. The statement exemplifies a red herring or thought-terminating cliché. The logical fallacy is sometimes presented as "Let's agree to disagree". Whether one has a particular entitlement or right is irrelevant to whether one's assertion is true or false. Where an objection to a belief is made, the assertion of the right side-steps the usual steps of discourse of either asserting a justification of that belief, or an argument...
 
8:10 PM
<3 Bartlet. Damn I miss the west wing
 
brand new computer book, and I already damaged it with water, my water bottle dripped on a page :<
 
How does water damage a PDF?
 
yoo
 
I like reading from physical, material books with regards to programming... anything else, I get for kindle
also excluding comic books cause those are weird on kindle too
 
A client of mine sells ebooks and has talked about manga/similar, and casually mentioned that those would likely be 10GB+ pdfs. How is that a thing.
@danack reading his reply to me again, I wonder, if your rfc passes, whether it’s mere presence will be enough encouragement for better discussions, or if it’ll take one run through the extreme end of the process before it really makes a difference.
 
ThW
8:20 PM
sounds like high res bitmap graphics
 
I suspect it will be like a nuclear bomb
You have to use it at least once.
 
@Tiffany same, mainly because I love citing and handing people books as a loan to say "here, read this"
 
@MarkR a bomb you’re not willing to use isn’t a deterrent and all that.
 
....analogies are so terrible.
 
@Danack would you prefer one about the “fallout” ?
Ok I’m done for the night. Don’t go intimidating anyone now.
 
8:27 PM
you can just not use analogies. "one person will probably think the suspension process won't be used, and only after they're suspended will other people realise it can be used."
 
Yes, but the point of the nuclear bomb analogy is that it brought the war to a close.
 
Right. But the overtone of tens of thousands of people burning to death, kind of acts to distract from the point.
 
Can't say such things cross my mind.
 
9:17 PM
Another day in the books. Time to head home, lads. Have a good one!
 
g'nite
 
10:12 PM
evening
 
Evening Jay
Well in the last 6 hours I had to track down a bug that was killing swoole, after searching all over the place, turns out I was trying to load 50,000 rows of data and running out of memory. Woops.
 
10:31 PM
almost friday's
 
Almost. Not quite sure where this week has gone.
 
felix \o/
 
another one who's never around anymore..
 
yeah...
You guys have been too successful in making me employable...
 
10:32 PM
no ways! Congrats. Anything good?
 
oh yeah, still working in that same computer research institute.
there was some er.. restructuration, if that's a word in english?
my immediate superior changed, and they actually made it happen for me to go back to university, after all this two years of making it a promise
 
I guess.. Is that a round about way of saying you're in management now?
 
nah :p
just the person who's in charge of me, is way closer to actual understanding of where I'm at
 
Oh cool, so you're back at uni ?
 
yeah, only one class this semester, time for me to see if I'm any good still
 
10:34 PM
What will you be studying?
 
computer science. doing prerequisite math classes for now
 
Nice, I'm happy for you bro.
However
If it meanS not listening in lectures, then so be it... Get your ass back in regular for r11.
 
awwww :p
I'm doing it mostly so that all those things I've kinda understood (but not really) by osmosis get some formal definitions, so listening is actually part of my plan :)
@JayIsTooCommon nice, that S
what about you, back for good?
 
listening sounds like a good plan to be fair. I should have had that plan a looong time ago
@FélixGagnon-Grenier I am indeed - this place is too quiet nowadays. Still freelancing whilst not in work so i've got a reason to be in here at least
 
@JayIsTooCommon tbqh a long time ago I was nowhere near being able to listen. after working in jobs of various glamouredness for a decade, sitting my ass on a chair and listening to someone teaching me things is... an excellent feeeling.
 
10:44 PM
That's fair enough.
Well I'm glad it's working out for you at least
@FélixGagnon-Grenier hey, will the new and improved manager also pay for you to go to conferences :D?
 
possibly not php conferences :P
but they'll be totally cool with clearing my schedule if need be
 
@FélixGagnon-Grenier not the cheapest, but a few regulars are heading over to php.barcelona/talks
 
dat lineup tho
 
11:43 PM
That lineup is great. I laughed that the first female speaker shown was speaking on Go. I was like, "Could they not get a female PHP speaker?" but then Lorna Mitchell was next. Had a good laugh.
Maybe I should try to go.
 
When is it?
Not that I think I can go anyway :(
 
It's November 12-13.
 
Yeah, that's not going to be possible
Moreover it's pretty expensive I suppose?
 
200 euro apparently
 

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