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1:04 PM
> The systex wrong you should not use <?php tags inside php
:P
@DaveRandom +1
 
@PeeHaa lolwut
 
Yeh, I hate those systex errors
to be fair, that's probably one of those cases where someone said the word "system" right next to him while he typing it
 
:P
 
btw @PeeHaa have you had any more m ssing character issues in Chrome?
 
1:12 PM
hehehehe fucktard
and nope :)
 
:-D
 
BTW damnit I have to check my schedule fast if I want early bird ticket for PHPNW
 
@PeeHaa price difference is small
£99 early bird
It ended 11 days ago too
 
ow :P
Well that is not a concern anymore in that case :P
 
user986408
quick question: when downloading a file served by a apache/php backend - what could be the reason that there's no expected file size? there's like no percentage
 
1:21 PM
There is no spoon.
 
@skripted content-length not being set.
content-length header, even
 
@PeeHaa Going?
 
user986408
@Danack so i would need to fix the response http headers?
 
Blind Bird is available and same price as early bird tbf
 
user986408
is there a configuration? like apache or php
 
1:22 PM
@PeeHaa The full price ones aren't that expensive, but they do run out of hackathon passes (I didn't get one last year)
 
@skripted header("Content-Length: ".filesize($filetoSend));
 
or we could just go out drinking on the Friday and screw those guys
 
user986408
@Danack thank you very much!
 
np.
 
@Fabien Think so
 
1:33 PM
I'm considering it too
 
i want to select * from table
i used this code and i want to print this
kindly tell what i am making mistake
 
mistake nr1: don't use mysql_* API
it is ancient and has not been updated in 10 years
 
so teresko kindly tell how may i retrieve
what amendment must i make in this code
seems yu are busy
nyways thanks a lot yr
yu helped a lot
 
Room 11 PHPNW could be strong.
 
phpnw?
 
1:47 PM
Yay
@DaveRandom I might be up for this. But not the screwing guys part.
 
GERD MAHRNIN RERM ERLERVERN
 
lol
 
haha
I was looking for anonymous PHP classes
so instantiate like in Java
and I found a nice PHP RFC
and guess who wrote it
our friend Joe Watkins
haha, why does he write the stuff I need always
 
@Jimbo Not only will we have a visiting dutchie, we will be in Manchester. It's either that or get really fucking high.
 
So that Room-11 org on Github, how do I get it to stop spewing stuff on the my home page?
 
1:59 PM
@Danack github.com/watching, scroll down to the room-11 repos and click "unwatch" on the ones you don't want
 
@DaveRandom thank-you
 
@AlmaDo PHPNW14
 
guys
my pc tells me that Thread class is undefined
do I have to install something additional to PHP
PECL
 
@Fabien eh.. sad. I can't afford that
 
I thought it is packaged since 4 or so
 
2:07 PM
@AlmaDo Aye :( cheap for a conference but accom + flights not so much
 
@Fabien hehe. that's ok. In any case - the conference wouldn't lose anything if I won't participate - since I won't be a reporter there. As for "just participation" (as a listener) - I can always view it on video (if there will be something valuable - no doubt someone will record)
 
Yeah.
 
2:25 PM
@AlmaDo Yeh the talks get professionally recorded and posted online, it sometimes takes a while but they get done properly and audio dubbed so you can actually hear etc
 
@DaveRandom the best is an option with audio-track + video, split into two sides: reporter + slides on one screen
but if the audio is ok (so not too quiet and without external noises) - that already is good :p
 
Yeah. Like DEFCON
 
I have an idea to start some SQL lessons (inspired by "programming with Anthony", where he's telling about very basic things on quite advanced level) - but.. I'm always thinking "wtf? lesson? anyone can discover those things by himself, just looking into manual!"
 
@AlmaDo Yea, it's the "looking into the manual" part that trips people up, hence RTFM.
 
@DanLugg hm.. I missed the idea :p
SQL actually is tricky. And there are many cases, when it need advanced explanations (well, members of this room are quite often stuck with it), so.. may be I'll do that. in future :p
 
2:34 PM
@AlmaDo They mux in the audio from the mics the speakers are wearing I think
 
@DaveRandom great
 
@AlmaDo did you read "SQL Antipatterns" ?
 
hm.. may be not only SQL, but some no well-known features of MySQL (such as this)
 
@AlmaDo Yeh but also manuals tend to be dry, boring, and 100% factual. Presentations can be a lot more personal and engaging.
 
also, joining views is considered to be a bad practice
 
2:37 PM
@tereško of course. Didn't get much new info from it - but get names for patterns & anti-patterns (so I knew facts before, but I realized that .. hm, for example, comma-separated list is named "Jaywalker" ) :p
@tereško you're about video ?
 
I am talking about SQL VIEW
 
@DaveRandom I think, MySQL manual is useful
 
@DaveRandom I think this is part of the problem; not that they are dry or boring, but that people expect them not to be dry or boring. It's a technical field, and people need to accept that reading specifications isn't like reading Calvin and Hobbes.
 
mysql manual i useful ... but mysql itself is kinda not
 
^^ lol
 
2:38 PM
@tereško ah, that. It has it's procs & cons. But - yes, if the idea is to JOIN with view - it's near senseless because that means you should just create new view
 
@AlmaDo or you could query the real tables
 
@tereško yeah. Depends of what do you want. Actually, VIEW can be useful for such things as sphinx indexer (based on simple queries, especially early versions
@tereško it has it's use-cases. You shouldn't forget the fact, that not so long ago InnoDB was the fastest transactional SE
 
In my experience even the fact that you have a VIEW in your SQL is a sign that the DB has been polluted , while trying to "add new features" and "make a structure better"
it is an artifact of same "database" containing multiple database versions at the same time
 
@tereško VIEW has it's use-cases. But I say following thing: if you're not sure if you need VIEW - then you don't need VIEW
In my case - I almost never use sql views. The only use-case with them was sphinx indexer ..
 
@AlmaDo @DanLugg I don't disagree, just saying presentations/talks can be useful for getting people more interested in reading the manual
 
2:44 PM
@DaveRandom For sure, I'd never say an engaging presentation of content is a bad thing. Especially if it does entice the audience to seek out the manual. I just think that there's a fundamental issue with "spoon feeding", and "glitterizing"
 
@DaveRandom I know. It's just my doubt - the fact, that manual is useful, stops me from doing a presentation or video. I'm just not sure if it need to be done
 
yes, we can see it , the link works just fine
of course, nobody here will even bother to read it
 
ahahahahah
thanks
 
How'd your day of gaming go @tereško?
 
2:55 PM
@Fabien I haven't begun
I spent about 2 hours trying to decypher some idiotic SOAP thing
 
You should spec up the PC you're going to buy. For the hype. It must be how 'some' women feel when window clothes shopping.
 
@AlmaDo I would encourage you to do it. 99.9% of these things contain no information that you can't get from reading docs, the value they add is not new information, it's accessibility. Think of it like giving out free samples to people to encourage them to try the full version (a well established successful sales tool).
 
@Fabien what's the point ?
I probably will get to buy it some time in late August or early September
 
@tereško Practice run. Gets me excited when I do it. No Dave, not sexually.
Good to know how prices have changed too.
 
@tereško the word "idiotic" is redundant and not expletive enough
 
3:07 PM
this is what the error message looked like:
Неизвестная ошибка. {ОбщийМодуль.МодульРаботыСWSСервер.Модуль(805)}: Поле объекта не обнаружено (rtype) по причине: {ОбщийМодуль.МодульРаботыСWSСервер.Модуль(805)}: Поле объекта не обнаружено (rtype)
 
@Fabien I find it to be a bit of a waste of time (I used to do it a lot). Tech moves so fast that the machine you spec up now will be obsolete by the time you can afford it. Also oh baby, yeh, work it.
 
How do I specify the package root, such that A depends on B, and (I'm just doing local repos for testing) A, when installed/updated gets package B rooted at src/whatever
 
@tereško who codes in cyrillics
seriously
 
@tereško Awesome
 
@zigi that was my first reaction
"Неизвестная ошибка" means "Unknown error"
 
3:09 PM
I understand it, don't get me wrong, I come from Bulgaria, but seeing even comments
it makes me vomit
 
/cc @Danack because you've answered many composer questions.
 
@tereško I know
 
@HamZa ping
Morning, room.
 
Morning indeed.
 
@DaveRandom lol. Yeah I only spec around the time I am buying over a few weeks. Modifying as I go based on whats available.
@LeviMorrison Morning. Any word on conference talk?
 
3:10 PM
@DanLugg stackoverflow.com/questions/18100420/… but tbh what I do now is:
 
@zigi not everyone here can read russian
 
i) Composer update in the project
ii) Go into the vendors directory and delete the library that I want to be developing at the same time.
iii) Git clone in the vendors directory.
Which gives you complete control over which version gets installed, without having to jump through composers hoops.
The only limitation is that changes in the composer.json file of the library seem to behave weirdly.
 
So... there really isn't a "package-root": "/src/Package" or equivalent, eh? I was perusing the schema...
 
@DanLugg No...and tbh it would be nightmare having that....everyone would start to abuse it to have their own structure.
I mean you can do it with the:
"repositories": [
    {
        "type": "vcs",
        "url": "/projects/library/"
    }
]
 
^^ If I say /projects/library/src/Package, that's not going to work though, will it (am testing now)
 
3:13 PM
But that still requires doing a composer update, which copies the library from where it currently is to the vendor dir.....which is probably not that helpful.
 
Yea, that don't work cause it's looking for the git root.
 
@DaveRandom selling? come on.. I even have no idea of how to create good presentation/lecture. Fact, that you know something and fact that you can teach the thing, that you know - are very, very different facts..
 
As I said, just manually putting the library in the right place through git clone seems the best workflow to me.
 
Thanks for the info; yea, I'm rather surprised that there isn't a package-root. I can't see it being nightmarish. How does it affect a package consumer what all sits above the directory I specify as root?
 
@AlmaDo Suggest you write them first and then submit here for review. I'm pretty sure there are a good few people here who would like to hear what you have to say and would be happy to provide constructive feedback (I know I would)
 
3:17 PM
@DaveRandom no doubt in that (in fact, this is the only place where there are so many people which are good in different IT areas)
^ well, for me :p
 
@DanLugg That info would have to be given to the autoloader somehow for a start....but the main thing is that quite a few people have asked to be able to install libraries into somewhere other than vendor because of reasons. Having them all in the same place makes the ecosystem much simplere, and sustainable.
 
@Danack Oh, no, I'm not talking about putting them somewhere other than vendor.
 
@DaveRandom an idea. If you have some area in SQL which you do not know for sure - tell me, I'll try to compile a presentation
 
Hold on, incoming ASCII art.
PackageA                PackageB
 +- src                  +- src
 |   +- PackageA         |   +- PackageB ...
 |       +- Namespace1   +- vendor
 |       +- Namespace2   |   +- PackageA
 |       +- Namespace3   |       +- Namespace1
 +- docs                 |       +- Namespace2
 +- other                |       +- Namespace3
 +- stuff                :
A is installed into B's vendor starting with src/PackageA/**
@Danack ^^
 
@Fabien Wasn't accepted. I never got a rejection either; I'm guessing they just don't do anything for rejected talks.
 
3:27 PM
@LeviMorrison I realise that it sucks, but it's policy at quite a few places to not send out rejection letters as people occasionally go nuts when they receive them. Obviously not implying you would, but if they've had bad experiences in the past where rejected speakers have caused a lot of trouble for them, I can understand why they wouldn't want to repeat that.
 
> I can't do a talk eh!? Well then neither can anyone! NUDIST MODE ENGAGE!
 
@LeviMorrison Submitted what to where?
 
@LeviMorrison So double shitty of them.
 
@Danack As someone who does job interviews I can say that they should send rejections.
Or at least tell you ahead of time that if you aren't accepted you won't get any kind of rejection.
As it is I was just waiting around not knowing anything.
 
If a speaker caused trouble due to rejection then the rejection was just.
 
3:30 PM
Also it's not like not sending a rejection letter means the speaker will think their talk was accepted...
 
To be clear: I'm not upset.
It's just very unprofessional which is sad.
 
Sorry I also missed what (or at least, where) you submitted @LeviMorrison?
 
Northeast PHP.
(NA; I guess there is another one for Manchester)
I'm going to Lugano, Switzerland in September for a Slurm conference which will be way more fun and rewarding anyway, and on the company's dime :D
 
A Slurm conference? Where you discuss a fictitious green soft drink that is excreted by aliens?
 
lol, no but it was inspired by the name.
Simple Linux Utility for Resource Management
 
3:44 PM
@Danack In my little ASCII tree, I omitted the vendor names, so it should be /vendor/Foobar/PackageA, y'know what I mean?
 
@DanLugg I think so...and managing the code with git yourself still sounds like the best plan.
 
lol, damn. Okay.
 
I quite like git submodules.
Much better than composer.
This way the library author picks which version to use, and not composer.
 
@LeviMorrison The problem is deep dependency trees. The main thing composer provides is the safety net for version conflicts
 
Eh, only kind of.
It tells you there is a problem but it can't fix it usually.
 
3:53 PM
@DaveRandom It's not a great safety net...
 
Well no it's not a magic "make it work" bullet, but it's a good "ain't gonna work" warning
 
This is why one project (guzzle, I think) used a new namespace for their new major version.
So projects could use them side by side for a while.
I'm beginning to think that's actually a good idea.
 
@DaveRandom Unless when it hides issues from you - github.com/composer/composer/issues/2992
 
@LeviMorrison It sounds sane, people do it with stuff like REST APIs a lot
no reason I can think of for not carrying the same principle into codebases
 
We do it with our API client and server code, not just the REST URI.
 
3:58 PM
Does Andrea use ajf on IRC?
 
Well, I posted a question anyway.
0
Q: Composer packages, specifying package root

Dan LuggPerhaps I've simply missed something basic (hopefully) but I can't quite figure this out. I have a pair of PHP projects, each initialized as a git repo/Composer package; foobar/package-a which depends on foobar/package-b. PackageA is structured as follows: PackageB +- src | +- PackageB | ...

 
@DanLugg Oh - you meant like that. How about exclude - getcomposer.org/doc/04-schema.md
 
@Danack Yea, that'd sorta work. I want to actually re-root the package though, so the consumer doesn't see anything above the specified root.
But def thanks, I may end up just using that.
 
I haven't used that so don't know if it actually does what it implies it does.
 
4:06 PM
Yea, It appears to.
 
I might be killed because of this here but... C# is the only language that does not even try to fight with you. :)
 
A 'la .gitignore style.
@Leri I'd very much like to agree with that, but I've had some mighty fights with C#.
Though, much of the fighting was probably brought on by .NET being a drunken ass cactus.
So, really, C# was an innocent bystander pulled into a bar brawl.
 
@Leri I still think that if Microsoft gave up only supporting windows, but made software tools for multiple platforms, they would quickly get a huge amount of traction.
 
Microsoft is working more with cross platform stuff.
At the moment it is mostly focused on mobile though.
 
@Danack Valid point.
@LeviMorrison Meh, that's Windows again.
 
4:13 PM
@Danack Would be great, but how likely? They'd be unlocking customers from their flagship product.
MS still has enough of a stranglehold to continue strangling. If their market share plummeted for whatever reason, that might be a reasonable expectation.
 
4:30 PM
@DanLugg I reckon there's a very high chance that Microsoft will make some changes to their corporate strategy. I wrote this elsewhere (not linkable). The fundamental problem Microsoft have is that Windows is basically irrelevant. Although in the past their strategy to cross-promote Office + Windows to make both be dominant is obviously failing.
It's not obvious at all that continuing to lock Office and the other software Microsoft makes into Windows will be at all beneficial to either Office or Windows - at which point giving up Windows market share, to get Office onto more devices becomes a better strategy.
 
4:47 PM
Especially since Google Drive will soon have (or maybe just launched) support for native office editing.
 
/me goes home
 
5:08 PM
@DaveRandom later
 
@Danack Hmm, I don't know how "irrelevant" Windows necessarily is. It is, and probably for a good while, will remain the dominant OS for office client machines (and consequently, their servers) I work in currently, and have in the past, a rather "enterprisey" environment. Service contracts and corporate reliability are huge value, even if the product is terrible.
But regardless, I hear ya, and hope you're right. I look forward to a far more "agnostic" future.
On a slightly different note, it almost seems that MS has inter-team competition; different teams producing competing technologies all under the MS/.NET stack. I don't know this to be true explicitly, but evidence of the way they manage their products leans that way. It's very frustrating.
 
Google has multiple 'competing' technologies.
 
5:31 PM
hi
 
@DanLugg "I don't know how "irrelevant" Windows necessarily is." Think how many developers are working on Windows based projects....almost zero?
 
Unless you are doing something for 'desktop users'; these are almost exclusively Windows.
 
@Danack You should totally name that gist file 'something.md' so it renders all nice and purty in the browser
 
@cspray ty
@LeviMorrison Yep...and it was really weird for them to buy Motorola as it put them into direct competition with companies making Android phones, which was forcing Samsung to not trust Google, and start making it's own version of Google services. Google selling Motorola was definitely a step back against the hyper-competition, and allows Samsung to trust Google a bit more.
 
5:51 PM
 
if i have an Undefined variable, how do i print an error for this??
 
6:13 PM
@MariusB You dance like Christopher Walken. Example:
 
i dont dance
 
6:38 PM
@Ocramius hello. I am sitting right next to you.
 
"The bug reports are coming from inside the house!"
 
@Gordon damn stalkers.
@RahulKhosla you mean "no-js", right?
 
You guys at a conference or something?
 
@Fabien DPC14
 
good mornings
 
7:24 PM
What are your opinions on an event listener throwing an exception? I've never had to do it before, there are ways around throwing the exception but it means more, what seems like unnecessary code. Throwing an exception from the listener will get caught and handled exactly how i want it to happen
 
bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104111 — I hate you Safari, it works everywhere else!
 
@David An event listener (as in the thing that is handling the event)?
 
@DaveRandom That's correct yeah
 
@David ...to be caught where? By the thing that emitted the event?
 
wat up peeps
 
7:37 PM
@DaveRandom It's in my sort of front controller/kernel whatever people like to call it. it just fires events of at some stages of handling the request like before routing, after routing, before response etc, the this is wrapped in a try catch, to catch the RouteNotFoundException, it would be perfect in one of the listeners to just throw that exception so it's caught and it all falls into place nicely, now that catch block is not there specifically for this listener, it is needed either way
It just seems nice and handy how it is already there(not there just for the sake of the listener throwing the exception) and if I throw this exception from my listener it will be caught and handled nicely
 
@David Nope, you are abusing exceptions
sorry
 
God dammit
I'm not breaking the rules that bad though in this instance am I?
 
That definitely comes under the umbrella of using exceptions for flow control
 
I can also do it without the listener throwing the exception but it's just more code
 
@ircmaxell Yeah, I never got anything :(
 
7:39 PM
@David if route is not found, you should default to a fallback route
 
@ircmaxell What a lovely coincidence.
 
@David Your listeners should either return (a Route I guess?) or null and the controller should be the one throwing the exception
 
@tereško The thing here is I have different modules, frontend, admin, management, they all have different 404 pages. Each module listens to events and only initialize depending if the subdomain is === to something or the path is === to something etc.
 
Otherwise the listeners are relying on knowing how the even emitter works internally
It might need to do cleanup that they would interrupt, for example
yes, this could be worked around with finally but it doesn't make it any more correct
 
7:42 PM
@DaveRandom But this all happens well before any controller is instantiated.
Oh you're on about the front controller/kernel thing
 
@David I meant the event emitter
doesn't really matter what it is, the event listeners shouldn't assume anything about the internal implementation of the event emitter
 
@DaveRandom It's just this rare case where it would all work perfectly. Dammit, I knew it was wrong to do but I said I'd come on here and hopefully hear someone say that's perfectly fine.
 
throwing exceptions assumes that either the emitter will handle the exception, or it would be safe to break the emitters program flow mid-routine and return control to the level above, neither of which are safe to assume without knowing the way the emitter works.
 
@David I have a similar project: three "end points" - cms, rest api and web
 
That's not to say it won't work, it's just not how event driven models are supposed to work
Aug 22 '13 at 15:00, by DaveRandom
Disclaimer: never listen to anything I say about anything ever
 
7:47 PM
I knew it was code smell as soon as I noticed it would work. Why can't I just go back to the days of shitty code where I just thew anything together without being such a perfectionist nazi
 
@David tbh it's not a huge deal, you just need to pull the responsibility up a level. Surely it can't be much (if any) more code to do the same thing in the emitter?
 
@tereško Yeah I've a resf api module too, are you using something like events to initialise the modules depending on subdomain and path?
 
I am using different bootstrap file per subdomain
lemme see if I can do a git pull at home and show the high-level structure
 
@DaveRandom When you say the emiiter do you mean the actually object that is holding the listeners or the request handler which is using the event dispatcher to fire events?
@tereško That would be cool.
 
@David I guess the request handler, assuming the thing that's holding the listeners is just a collection of some flavour
The thing that says "hey, this is happening"
 
7:55 PM
@Leri Sorry for the late reply (I was working). Can I help you?
 
@DaveRandom It's probably what I call the Kernel. Sounds cooler than FrontController or RequestHandler. Inside it I have stuff like this:
$this->events->dispatch('request.preRouting', $event);
$route = $this->router->route($request->getMethod(), $request->getPath());
// Create new event
$this->events->dispatch('request.postRouting', $event);
It just goes on like that firing off events at each stage
 
@SergeyTelshevsky I'm still worried that over 20% uses IE...
 

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