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6:01 PM
"A programmer had a problem so he decided to use Java. Now he has a ProblemFactory."
 
@ircmaxell And a ProblemAdapter probably otherwise it's not possible to get a ProblemPlugin.
 
javascriptroom.com <-- does that load for everyone? (not the parked site)
 
@Neal Yes
 
@MadaraUchiha cool. how about rules.javascriptroom.com ?
 
@Neal Yes
 
6:07 PM
@MadaraUchiha awesome ^_^ any other subdomains u think I need?
 
@Neal no?
 
@MadaraUchiha one word answers?
 
@Neal Yes.
 
@MadaraUchiha hmmm not even a php.javascriptroom.com ? or does that just not make sense?
 
@Neal No
Why?
 
6:09 PM
@MadaraUchiha idk just bc lol
 
"But it would stop idiots from you like making emotion-invoking, yet meaningless, retorts for serious feature requests"
Adults are trying to have a discussion
 
:)
 
very true
I like Larry's reply
 
6:22 PM
I will now release my smilies of the web website - just for the balance we strive for.
The Emoticon Internet Database - EIDB.org
 
@GoogleGuy @LeviMorrison and anyone else working on the manual: The user comments in the manual being ordered by number of votes sucks. At least give us the option to order by date, or you'll get some dickhead upvoting his own comment from 6 years ago and it obscures the recent (more useful) comments.
 
damn, the name is already taken. Also I need some sponsors, who want to sponsor my project?
 
@DaveRandom It definitely needs to be ordered by date.
 
Anonymous
I will sponsor :)
 
I disagree
 
6:25 PM
laterz
 
@LeviMorrison It needs to be ordered by "hotness"
 
perhaps change the font-size based on vote count
 
@DaveRandom cu l8t0rz
 
Anonymous
If you meet my expectations of answering every one of my vampire-esque questions
 
The reason I think it needs to be ordered by date is that many people have written their posts with the assumption that their post will be listed above previous posts.
 
6:25 PM
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie are you aiming for a professional career as help vampire? ;)
 
Also, this day has been a bit melancholy. Needs more kittens:
 
@LeviMorrison sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet ;meouw :-)
The internet kitten database, IKDB.org <- sorry !
 
Anonymous
There is nothing wrong being a help vampire really. Unless you don't ask the same question twice
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie come on. I thought you wanted to make friends and then such a comment.
Questions like, I'm new to PHP can you explain code (enter code here) or is there better way to do it? Thanks in Advance. (don't forget to place name here and a smiley)
 
Anonymous
It is the reality, but, I get more bad news from this chat forum, than I do get the good ones anyway, so being a help vampi doesn't work either way.
 
Anonymous
6:30 PM
Let's see, what I mean by that, the last two times I came here after reading the manual to ask for help about RAND(); and global variable, I was told they were bad ideas
 
Anonymous
So, I left disapointed..
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie hmm, I don't remember. But it makes me sad that we could not make you smile last time.
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie If that's your feeling, you have no place in this community
 
Anonymous
@hakre haha, I smiled after beating you up here stackoverflow.com/questions/14027243/…
 
Anonymous
@ircmaxell I know it is my fault, but someone has to admit to me that PHP sucks too
 
lol
 
Anonymous
Oh... finally, I have something in common with a pro... @ircmaxell although not sure if we have the same reasons.. I will read that blog... But, my complain in PHP is about, its sooo many functions for anyone to read/remember plus, so many things are as many people said, a bad thing to use..
 
Anonymous
If they are bad, then why are they in php..
 
Anonymous
0
Q: XAMPP works, PHP doesn't (mac)

AlekplayI have a problem regarding getting PHP to work on my Mac. No matter what I write in the .PHP file, all that shows up is the code. For example: <?php echo 'Hello'; ?> only gives me <?php echo 'Hello'; ?> in the browser window. I know XAMPP works, because if I type in http://loc...

 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie PHP was initially a language with a certain vision
 
6:41 PM
almost every real programmer thinks php sucks ...
 
"We want a language with a very simple and familiar interface, that will simplify the HTTP protocol to a state where even an idiot can do it"
That's where all these functions came from. In other languages, you often need to implement them yourself, but PHP aims to be simple and readable
 
@NullPointer I will take it over Ruby any day...
 
PHP had slightly changed its vision since, still not very clear to what, news.php.net/php.internals/64770
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie I don't remember then
you don't learn by memorizing. You learn by learning how to find answers for yourself...
 
@Lusitanian may be but .. i never used ruby .. i just know ruby is a thing
 
Anonymous
6:44 PM
@MadaraUchiha How is it having infinit number of functions to be aiming to be 'simple and readable'
 
It doesn't and you don't need to know them all hence the manual.
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie Because in combination with a very thorough manual, a giant community and Google, those infinite number of functions isn't a problem
 
Memorization is not a learning strategy.
 
Just search for "How to reverse the elements in an array" and get an instant answer from the manual itself.
Also, do you think Java is better in that sense?
C?
No, hell no.
 
Anonymous
I know nothing of other programming langs other that PHP, if that is a programming lang.. but, out of curiosity, how many functions does PHP has? Does anyone know?
 
6:47 PM
php.net/quickref.php - it's hard to gauge because some functions come from extensions
 
user1125394
I respect the programmers who learned without google or SO in the early days
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie if you know c than you can either create yourself
 
@MikeB That's not infinite. It finished loading. Go find the real one...
@cab It was rough. You actually had to experiment and try things...
 
@ircmaxell I'd be better off spending my time trying to solve pi
 
6:49 PM
@cab and i respect only who those learned without internet
 
@NullPointer That's not possible.
 
I learned before SO existed but without Google I would've been screwed lol
 
I learned before HTML existed...
 
@Lusitanian ##php @ Freenode
@ircmaxell How old are you again? :o
 
@MadaraUchiha 29
 
6:51 PM
@MadaraUchiha yes ... i know some .. who learned everything from book (hard copy ) not from internet .. but its more costly
 
@NullPointer Not only that, but a book tends to not adapt to the change in versions/times
 
You're also taking a different age
 
@NullPointer Well one of my first printouts was HTML 2.0 and it was 30 pages or so and not really cheap.
 
Learning solely from a book doesn't sound incredibly productive.
 
when features were added every 10 years, not twice per month
 
6:52 PM
Hi all, hi
 
hi @Alexander!
 
@MadaraUchiha yupp .. that is drawback of books ...
@Alexander hola ... its
 
@NullPointer flame?
 
@Alexander yo
 
ok xD
 
6:57 PM
Here's a "help my structure my app" question for you guys
I'm making a flight feedback application
The point is that air crew, after a flight, open the app, input where the flew, altitude, visibility etc, and then all relevant personal add their "feedback" on the flight
Tech dept. inputs their feedback, mission control, etc
The focus is about usability, if it's not easy, no one will use it.
How do you think I should structure this?
Is a framework in order? Is it overkill?
 
I saw that question before..
 
Anonymous
he got rid of the "problem" word with "probl3m" that is clever though
 
-4
Q: slider is not working properly

user1832494i have website powered by WordPress (http://way2pay.ir/)this web site is hosted on a shared host,some days ago i decided to move this website to a new VPS (http://new.way2pay.ir/) but there is a big problem,some part of web site is not working properly,such as slider that in original one shows 3 ...

 
7:07 PM
What say you @tereško?
 
@tereško there's a decent-looking answer though
 
I don't know how you tolerate @tereško :p
 
@NullPointer please , elaborate on "real programmer"
 
Anonymous
@Pekka웃 agreed. I never knew, the true meaning of MVC until I saw the answer
 
@Pekka웃 where ?
 
Anonymous
7:08 PM
@tereško Where do you think?
 
did you actually read it ?
> The model represents the data, and does nothing else
 
@Pekka웃 It also doesn't relate to PHP very well
 
> An interface to view and modify the data (View)
@Pekka웃 , is that the "decent" answer ?
did you read it , or just looked at vote count
 
Anonymous
As for me, I read it... and still re-reading it :) It seems an simple answer given to newbies.. since It made sense to me anyway..
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/2514230/… since its just asking for links
 
7:15 PM
Wtf? I was just telling off this question's OP for not checking their errors properly, only to discover that there is no example how to do that neither in mysqli_query() nor in mysqli_stmt::execute()
Seriously?
Surely there must be some plan to this that I'm just too dense to see? I've never worked with mysqli
 
@Pekka웃 mysqli_report( MYSQLI_REPORT_STRICT );
 
@MadaraUchiha well, true
 
Anything about my question?
 
tl;dr .. also i want to eat
 
Anonymous
@MadaraUchiha Doesn't "feeback" mean a comment? If so, then what is there to ask about making a comment?
 
7:17 PM
@tereško okay, but that still causes code to break that tries to use a result set without checking afterwards, doesn't it?
 
Anonymous
Not that I am trying to help, I couldn't if I would, just curious
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie No, feedback means fully detailing the flight in their perspective
 
@tereško ahh no, the example in prepare() checks for the result set's existence. Forget what I said
 
@Pekka웃 well .. dealing with exceptions is someone self-explanatory
 
For instance, Tech guys would have form controls to fill regarding the usability of the aircraft, any malfunctions etc
Mission control would report about the performance of the radar, usability of onboard devices etc
 
7:19 PM
@MadaraUchiha By structure, what exactly are you referring to?
 
@MadaraUchiha why is your user name the only one to be in italic?
 
@Pekka웃 I am a room owner.
@webarto File structure
Class structure
Application structure in general
 
@tereško not really. That just leads to hundreds of newbs complaining "why does my query not work?" arguably one of the worst sources of crap questions in the PHP tag
 
there should be an alternative font for room's bogyman status
 
The manual should explain better.
@MadaraUchiha I see.
 
7:21 PM
@Pekka웃 just use PDO =P
 
@tereško Problem is that PDO doesn't use Exceptions by default
 
neither does mysqli
 
@tereÅ¡ko I see something about it now that I don't like: It's plagiarized from tomdalling.com/blog/software-design/…
Flagging. The user seems to make pretty decent contributions otherwise, though.
 
github.com/needim/noty this is the most useless popular plugin... themes done in JS.
 
This means that without guidance, he'd still have a bad time
3
 
7:22 PM
arg
 
@MadaraUchiha i think one of advantages for PDO are the study materials
there are not many , but they mostly are almost bearable .. unlike MySQLi tuts , which can make small children bleed
 
Anonymous
Just out of curiosity, why does PHP's error messages start by displaying T_ in every/most errors? ex: for string error it says, unexpected T_string.. Why not just say, unexpected string instead ??
 
I'd appreciate some help from you guys here.
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie token php.net/manual/en/tokens.php
 
stas....
 
Anonymous
7:27 PM
@MikeB Thanks
 
@ircmaxell I should have deleted his account while I could :D
 
@tereško Dude, it had votes, bullet points, and a picture. It was impossible for it to be bad
 
Anonymous
Seems like the PHP manual has more pages than Wikipedia itself.
 
Seems better than a PHP manual that has limited pages
 
wth...
What is PHP's default method? For instance, if I do not execute store_result() or use_result() before execute() and fetch() on a prepared statement. I'm assuming use_result(), since there is no use_result() on a mysqli_stmt object. — crush 6 mins ago
 
7:36 PM
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie did you ever get an answer to your question why $$foo is a bad thing?
 
No one about my question? Is it that difficult? :(
 
Anonymous
@igorw No!
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie It's extremely unreadable, for once
 
user1125394
$0.02 = '';
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie because it's very sneaky and easy to miss during code review. because it's quite WTF.
but most of all, because it implies you want an assoc array
so you should explicitly use one instead of doing crazy things.
 
7:38 PM
@Pekka웃 and still it is a horrid piece of crap
 
@Pekka웃 No freehand circles!
 
Anonymous
@igorw that must be true, although I never used it, once I saw it, it was pretty confusing as to which was the original variable.. I was very, very new to PHP then
 
Anonymous
Is it me, or there is something wrong in this answer stackoverflow.com/questions/14244989/…
 
anyone wanna help contribute to new js blog? blog.javascriptroom.com
 
7:48 PM
a blog about nothing :o)
 
user1125394
^ don't expect to have content
 
@tereško @ircmaxell @Pekka웃 What is your experience with Symfony?
 
if you need to list more than one or two names in a message, you probably shouldn't be listing anyone ;-)
 
Anonymous
57
Q: How should I deal with an employee sleeping with my wife?

Waiter JohnI'm the owner of a business with about 30-40 employees. Recently, I found out that one of my employees has been having an affair with my wife. The employee has worked for me for 4 years. I felt like I was his mentor, since I recruited straight from university, taught him the ropes, and promoted h...

 
@MadaraUchiha kohanaframework.org :P
 
7:50 PM
@webarto :P? What's the catch?
 
@MadaraUchiha I thought you were about to consider using Symfony for your project P
 
@MartyIX lol nothing yet
 
@webarto I was, that's why I'm asking about the experience people had with it
Why do you think Kohana is good?
 
@Neal Actually that is ("a blog about nothing") the subtitle of your blog. I don't expect anybody to contribute. Why would they?
 
> Rasmus: "A general purpose scripting language with a focus on web
> development"
> You: "being simple and practical and focused on the web"
>
> While they both have "web" in them, they provide very different goals and
> metrics with which to gauge contributions by. And that's the entire point
> of my call for a single, consistent and official vision...

They don't seem different to me, and the first one is the documented
statement that has been the first thing people see on php.net for
 
7:56 PM
@MadaraUchiha Powerful, no magic, has everything you need to develop application quickly. You don't need manual because you can read source code and understand everything. Code although uses statics (factory) is much better than Yii, Codeigniter, but you maybe can't compare them in such fashion. I'm not good with words, but it suits me the best...
 
@MadaraUchiha If you are going to use a framework use Symfony2 or Zend2 but why use one at all? :) [for the app you were describing earlier]
 
@Lusitanian I'm looking for an approach
 
i.e. architecture?
 
7:59 PM
A solid approach which would allow managing easier, and hopefully extensible later on
@Lusitanian Yes, exactly.
 
@MartyIX to make useful javascript posts
 
Anonymous
@MadaraUchiha Can't you get an idea on pre-existing similar apps? (just a thought)
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie I haven't found any written as a web application.
 
and probably some sort of mvc or mvc variant (mvp, etc) -- but it seems to me that the focus is on creating and updating flight info
 
8:01 PM
Gosh, that docblock parser proposal triggered something
everyone went crazy
 
> No vision statement is going to answer the question of whether annotations should be in docblocks or in the core language. That's simply not what vision statements do.
 
@NikiC I didn't go crazy
you can't go where you already are ;-)
 
@NikiC Well, Stas is usually crazy anyway. So that part isn't new. But how many other threads has it spawned now? 4?
 
:D
 
@ircmaxell "crazy" comes in different shades ;)
 
8:06 PM
:-D
@LeviMorrison I opened two myself
 
50 shades of craze
 
@Lusitanian Hmmm
Which is the reason an MVC framework seemed a good solution
 
hi there :)
 
yo
 
so.... how many lines of code have you guys written today? :)
 
8:09 PM
not many
 
Too many
 
Maybe 50
 
I've deleted a lot :-D
 
Anonymous
0
 
although I did start to refactor the Executor to enable me to serialize it ;-)
 
8:09 PM
100ish
 
@ircmaxell removing closures?
 
yeah, refactoring made my day :)
 
no... Wait, are closures not serializable? Dam
 
@Lusitanian what do you say?
 
cr@p!!!!
Ok, that will be step 2
 
8:10 PM
@MadaraUchiha I say if you're going to use a framework, Sf2 or Zend2 -- otherwise don't use one at all :)
 
to make closures serializable? :)
 
No, refactor out closures
but I want to use PHPPHP to build an APC replacement prototype...
 
@Lusitanian What's the advantage of Sf2 over, say, Kohana, as @webarto suggested?
 
and by APC replacement, I mean awesomesauce for PHP
 
@MadaraUchiha architecture, code-style
 
8:12 PM
Written for PHP 5.3, namespaced, doesn't use global state, has a nice DI component if you choose to use it, etc, etc, etc
 
Project Name: PHP-Bootstrap
 
@Lusitanian nice DI? you mean that registry?
 
@KamilTomšík no?
 
@ircmaxell I swear, I always skip t like you just did :) I mean, I press it, but it doesn't type :P
 
I mean the dependency injection container -- when not used as a service locator.
 
8:14 PM
@webarto Same.
 
@Lusitanian from what I know, sf2 DIC is far from what I like
 
thought process: compile and execute PHP code until you get to the first non-deterministic and request specific opline (time() call, system variable access, fopen, mysql*, etc, but not all functions). Then serialize the executor state at that point (The entire dam thing). And cache that. So something like symfony which needs to execute a bunch of code to set itself up before it can even handle the request could get a huge boost...
 
@KamilTomšík it's not perfect but it works and as long as you don't use the container itself as a dependency (i.e. service locator "pattern") it's quite alright
 
@MadaraUchiha Twitter Bootstrap = Wier Boosrap
 
8:16 PM
=)
 
@ircmaxell I thought Doctrine does that, it has "compile" option, but in fact it's just putting together all files in one huge fail which gains 0 performance when APC is used.
 
@webarto "one huge fail" lol
 
@MadaraUchiha :D
@Lusitanian :P
 
@MadaraUchiha , large, steep learning curve, some questionable practices, configuration over convention, have to learn a lot of "satellite" libraries
 
@tereško Is there an MVC framework on PHP that you like?
 
8:26 PM
i would say , Symfony 2.x is the best we currently have .. and i did not say that i dislike it .. i just prefer to have more control over the project
 
@KamilTomÅ¡ík what's wrong with Symfony2 DIC? I've heard complaints from many people saying it's a registry, service locator, etc. I have generally found those to be false.
 
@igorw it's a service locator only if you use it as one, and you can do that with any DIC
 
exactly
 
@igorw that's one of the "questionable practices" that i mentioned
 
it does not explicitly prevent you from injecting the container because believe me or not -- in some rare cases you actually need to inject it.
but generally it is a real DIC
 
8:27 PM
@igorw compared to @Inject it's poormans DIC
 
@webarto No, I'm talking at the engine level. Not APC or anything like that
 
@Lusitanian the problem is related to how it "travels" in the codebase , to implement a true DIC in PHP it might have to involve overloading of new ... or something
 
and I'm talking about saving actual PHP execution
 
so if your script is 100% deterministic, it'll run it all, and always return the cached output directly
 
8:28 PM
@KamilTomÅ¡ík by @Inject, are you referring to annotation-based DIC configuration?
 
Someone here must be better with Unix than I am...
Got a script Travis-CI is to run but I get:
./test/server.sh: 21: ./test/server.sh: [[: not found

Line 21:
if [[ $COMMAND == "start" ]]; then
I tried using single brackets too but basically got the same error
 
@igorw yep, but I could imagine it even without annotations, configuration by convention
 
@KamilTomÅ¡ík I would argue that a fully convention based DIC ("autowiring") is actually not a real DIC because if your typehints control the instance getting injected, you're not programming against interfaces.
 
@igorw what typehints? I havent said a word about that :-)
 
as for annotations; the container itself does not ship with anything for that, but there's things like di-extra-bundle for that. never tried using them standalone but I'm sure it'd be easy enough to do.
I find them kinda neat, but the configuration format of the container is not so important to me.
can you elaborate on convention based config?
 
8:35 PM
@igorw I'm not 100% sure about actual definition of DIC but most of people expect push based solution, sf2 is pull-based
 
@KamilTomšík erm, how so
 
Anonymous
.tel TLD's suck!!
 
@KamilTomÅ¡ík eh? if you apply the DI pattern for every single object, you will end up with a container where there is one single get call on the container
$container->get('teh_bootstrap')->run();
and everything else will be injected
 
@Lusitanian you'll obtain the root-level component from DIC, yes. But with all subcomponents initialized, so that DIC has to push all dependencies to it
nevermind, I'm terribly tired today I cant even write english
 
@ircmaxell Quickly tried serializing the executor yesterday, and that was the issue that turned up ;)
@ircmaxell Btw, what in your eyes is "deterministic" and how do you determine it? :P
 
@NikiC blacklist of functions and variables. But it's hard...
And I don't want to do that for PHPPHP, but for core...
 
why can't a Closure be serialized? I'd be curious to hear that too.
 
@igorw if it has a reference, I can understand it... otherwise I haven't the foggiest...
 
Anonymous
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14246206/is-phps-rand-function-really-so-bad
 
8:51 PM
Extending PHP 5.3 Closures with Serialization and Reflection: htmlist.com/development/…
 
Let's make this philosophical: humans might not have free will, in which case human action is deterministic and not random at all ;) — Lusitanian 7 secs ago
 
@TheCOMPLETEPHPNewbie
 
@ircmaxell I'm not sure how far you will get with that ;)
 
@NikiC not far at all. But it could be cool to try
 
@ircmaxell too many functions with external interaction
 
8:59 PM
@NikiC Well, then a white-list... Most array and string operations are fine (save the random ones)...
as are most engine level ones (spl, class_*, func_*, ob_*, etc)...
 
@ircmaxell I don't mean that as a logistical problem, I mean that it will prevent you from optimizing too much (generically)
a file_exists in the autoloader and BÄM you got the first interaction :)
 
Well, but if we can do it, then it could allow for application writer to "optimize" their code to take better advantage of it
 
I believe such a list would also help for tail-call optimization
 
or even for caching computation calls (making core functions memoizing)
 
yeah, that'd be pretty nice
 
9:05 PM
actually, making all functions memoizing
 
you could add a @memoize annotation to those functions
or that
 
@ircmaxell reopened
 
hello
 
Didn't it used to say who reopened questions?
Mmm, that doesn't seem a direct dup, but I do take your point. I'd rather this was closed as Exact Duplicate however if that was the real objection. — halfer 11 secs ago
 
9:14 PM
hey, quickQuestion :: is there an official name for '../' ??
 
"dot dot slash"
 
so if i want to store the N quanitity of "dot dot slash" required to root path, "$dot_dot_slash_to_root_path" as variable name will be ok ??
 
$dir_depth?
 
"$relative_root_path"?
 
so, i am a spanish programmer, thats the reason why i am asking for the most "correct" name
$dir_depth or $relative_root_path ??, who is more "universal" ??
 
Anonymous
9:21 PM
who is more
"universal" ?? Wow, i thought i was the complete newbie
 
@iim.hlk did you check for $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT']?
or FILE
 
@Happy Ninja, yes, but in this case, i am storing required relative rooth path of my app
 
@Hap It's FILE
Argh
 
yeah
how can we undo some formatting to display __ & __ ?
 
__FILE__
 
9:25 PM
@Shaquin, aleluya!! =P
 
__FILE__
;)
 
FILE
damn
@Shaquin how come?
 
Use backticks, or escape the underscores with backslashes
 
anyway, thanks, it was useful, my var name will be named as $ASDFGFDF
(( just kidding )), bay n__n
 
Is the variable a path or a count?
 
9:28 PM
$VAR = "../../../../";
dont ask why, i need store related dinamic values like this
 
I would use igorw's suggestion then.
 
I got a project in a folder and when I compress it to transfer it to another server my .htaccess are messed. Should I create myself a script to rewrite those .htaccess and setup permission and if so, is there any documentation you are aware off?
 
ok thanks n__n
 
a different question; if i compress a folder under apache folder, will it keep permission set?
 
9:47 PM
@awildeep @phpc @ircmaxell An apology is likely due to Stas for the "shut up" comment. #thatsMyTwoCents
 
@iim.hlk For file system its called parent directory
 

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