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15:00
WiFi Direct, bitch
@BartekBanachewicz Could, but I'd rather not -- uPnP should be called uPITA.
@kbok it works rather well in general
@BartekBanachewicz Will the lightbulbs be NFC enabled so we can bootstrap WPA keys onto them?
@TonyTheLion they can also react to the music
15:00
@Insilico ask Philips. They are making them
I don't want my house hacked and have its lights signaling 'Here lives a child molester' in morse.
user1357851
for mass production, the manufactorers have to accept a set of protocols
@BartekBanachewicz wtf I thought you was joking.
@BartekBanachewicz I never succeeded in making anything work well with uPNP.
user1357851
like a standard receiver
user1357851
15:01
and phones can be standarded senders
@BartekBanachewicz It certainly can do useful things -- but doing them is generally long-winded and fairly painful, even for fairly trivial things.
user1357851
and they can also communicate
@kbok streaming music is pretty nice
I don't even know if I've ever used UPnP.
8 mins ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
I am actually kinda into the digital house thingy
15:02
I stream music through HTTP.
http is ok for your usage
@BartekBanachewicz I usually have a lot of quircks and bad performance using UPnP for that - also codec issues, etc. AirPlay has been much better for that IME
user1357851
I thought about a foldable car hotel/motel car park - cars can expand into a room with bed and car park have water and waste pipes, then you can drive somewhere for work and not having to pack/unpack your suitcase from the car
but in terms of house usage, uPnP is kewl
the whole idea of device functions et al
@kbok I've used both, both flawless
@BartekBanachewicz Well, my usage amounts to listening to music.
15:03
I think you've been lucky :)
I am not sure what other things you can do with it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes on one device from one device
uPnP is for multiple devices
@BartekBanachewicz So is HTTP.
like a few speakers in various rooms
and multiple players
you can them easily choose which plays what
15:04
My tire's flat.
:(
also it's used to browse music
you are only streaming IIRC
I know what you're talking about, but you can do all that too with nettops with web browsers all over the place too. :-P
uPnP has "gallery" concept built-in
Come on. There are flaws with streaming music through HTTP. I gave you ample room for criticism. And you picked the nonsensical one that revels on ignorance?
@BartekBanachewicz Put it this way. If I turned up at your digital house to stay for a couple days, would I be able to use anything without reading a spec first?
15:05
@Insilico bullshit. Not with the hardware devices
@MartinJames yes.
"There's an app for that"
I intuitively use virtually all digital devices without reading any documentation
that's true for most here ^
@BartekBanachewicz The hardware devices? Last time I remembered computers count as hardware devices.
Everybody is staying at Bartek's this weekend for a huge party with wirelessly streamed music
@Insilico sorry, should say "embedded"
15:06
This is hilarious.
@BartekBanachewicz So, if my phone battery is flat, I'm trapped in there?
Xeo
Xeo
What's going on here?
@MartinJames use a charger duh
@BartekBanachewicz Embedded devices can't deal with HTTP?
@BartekBanachewicz I can't find the charger - I cannot turn on the lights.
15:06
@Xeo We went from talking about washing machines to smart houses to SHIT to streaming music.
@Insilico they are programmed to use uPnP not http. Also configuration
@MartinJames they will turn automagically at the evening
also the charger glows in the darkness
@BartekBanachewicz So what's stopping me from programming them to do whatever the hell I want them to do?
@Insilico closed firmware
I don't really know what you're getting at
@BartekBanachewicz When was the last time that stopped people from reprogramming these things?
like, ever.
15:08
> We use a range of stock photo suppliers to provide you with images of the most attractive headset operators available.
@Insilico 1912.
@kbok ahahaha
closed is closed.
without tech sheets you have exactly 0 chance of reprogramming anything you have
I meant general home devices
22 secs ago, by Bartek Banachewicz
without tech sheets you have exactly 0 chance of reprogramming anything you have
15:09
not Pi or shit that's meant to be reprogrammed
That's a joke, right?
@BartekBanachewicz Can you be vaguer?
2
A: Implementation of addressof

refpIt's actually quite simple when you think about it, to get the real adress of an object/function in precense of an overloaded operator& you will need to treat the object as something other than what it really is, some type which cannot have an overloaded operator.. an intrinsic type (as char). A...

@Insilico what have you reprogrammed lately?
I thought my answer was much easier to follow than the accepted one, why am I always so slow? is it because I'm black?
time for a fag.
hm, okey.
I'm a bit too far.
Devices using big OSes like android usually can be rooted reprogrammed
Xeo
Xeo
@refp I like how nobody mentions why / how reinterpret_cast<cv char&>(lvalue) works
but the small embedded ones, like an amplituner for example
welp.
If it's useful, people will hack it.
15:11
Also, these things are usually unstable.
and another point is uPnP just works.
@BartekBanachewicz Even the embedded ones will have an interface for programming them. That's how the factory programs them in the first place!
that's what's it meant for
@Insilico ever heard about ROM?
@GREENLIGHTGOLD
Completely unedited Steam Greenlight (main and concept) descriptions, Sometimes comments. @ me with tips. http://t.co/cqhDrZLfZ5 . http://t.co/D9d4KAwbiw
1.2k tweets, 1.5k followers, following 12 users
Digital madness: I attended a show in Frankfurt. When booking into hotel, reception had a wooden mock-up of a door section with the electronic lock. In only ten minutes, I was able to acquire the skill to get into my room.
15:12
@BartekBanachewicz Who the hell uses ROM nowadays when you have in-circuit programming?
also, factory programs, duh
they usually use their own flavor of JTAG
Or I can desolder the damn chip itself and put in an exact chip part with my program loaded in them.
@MartinJames Hotel electronic locks are crap. There was a scandal last year because of it.
What are you arguing about
15:12
GL keeping up with specs so the damn thing even boots
@Xeo why it's there is mentioned in pretty much every post, how it does it.. well, isnt that beyond the scope of the question?
@BartekBanachewicz I didn't say it was going to be easy. I'm just saying that it's possible. :-P
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not surprised.
but we were talking about general home usage
I mean, uh, sure it's possible to desolder the chip
but that's far away from the point of uPnP being able to reasonably connect all the devices without the need for that
I've used "impossible" a bit too eagerly
@BartekBanachewicz Well, I agree with that. Which makes me wonder how the hell this discussion veered off in this direction.
Something about the Robot's use of HTTP for music streaming or something.
15:15
I wasn't the one recommending reprogramming anything :)
Enough with the arguing. When are we doing this washing machine remote control protocol?
I also didn't say his usage pattern is bad. Merely pointed out that uPnP > HTTP in home appliances
@kbok well @Jerry is the head of the project
HTTP is only good because of its wide support. It has nothing to do with streaming music
@kbok We're actually going to work on SHIT. The SHIT protocol will be general enough to work with all SHIT devices, including washing machines.
UPnP has control over codecs, QoS, volume, etc.
15:17
On occasion the VS2012 debugger will show for a boolean value the following mybool: true (205). Does anybody know why the number is behind the value? I doesn't do that for all booleans.
@Insilico So, uPnP?
in fact I think it indicates something's iffy
@Insilico lol
Also what are the security issues with UPnP?
@TonyTheLion UB, optimisations, general crappiness of the debugger. Pick one.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wasn't aware uPnP was SHIT.
15:18
@R.MartinhoFernandes hmmm
Because it's UPnP and not uPnP
@TonyTheLion optimizations
Should've called SHIT "Smart Home Internetwork Technology". That sounds even more buzzword-ish.
@TonyTheLion Not necessarily. Maybe depends on how it's been set. If you initialize it to true/false, it may be 1/0, but if set from some complex, boolean expression, maybe it comes out at 205, (non-zero=true).
Random question, is there a way to preserve a variable in a method without making it a parameter?
15:19
So, I heard Vaas' speach about insanity in Far Cry 3 might actually have been entirely improvised by his voice actor, Michael Mando.
@Crowz what. Are you talking about static local-to-function variables?
@kbok Some routers come with UPnP on by default, and it assumes local programs are trustworthy. Get malware, malware uses UPnP to open holes in your firewall. There are others.
@MartinJames ah interesting reasoning
@Crowz void foo(int a) { int b = a; /* saved */ }?
@TonyTheLion it can be quite true
15:21
now serializing this bool, with boost::serialisation fails on this assert:
  /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    // fundamental types that need special treatment
    void save(const bool t){
        // trap usage of invalid uninitialized boolean which would
        // otherwise crash on load.
        BOOST_ASSERT(0 == static_cast<int>(t) || 1 == static_cast<int>(t)); //here
@BartekBanachewicz I have recursive method, and it looks like this:
@R.MartinhoFernandes AFAIK UPnP assumes all devices the subnet are trustworthy?
int numberOfDigits(int n, int digits) {
		if(n<10) return digits;
		return numberOfDigits(n/10, ++digits);
	}
boost::serialisation sucks then
because apparently it expects a bool to be either 0 or 1
15:21
@BartekBanachewicz After looking over the team and its fractiousness, I've decided to abdicate!
@kbok Yep. And that's the problem.
@Abyx No, static_cast sucks
@Insilico btw IIRC Philips Hue stole the idea from some kickstarter guys. But I can recall wrong
@kbok ah, yes, it does
@Crowz return log(10, n);. And the way you do it is k.
so yeah.
15:22
@BartekBanachewicz They totally released their light bulb after the kickstarter, but may have been working on it for a long time
Xeo
Xeo
@kbok neither. A bool converted to any integral type shall yield 1 if it was true, and 0 if it was false
@Crowz I've shown you this before :(
Xeo
Xeo
So something iffy should be going on if it actually asserts there
@BartekBanachewicz has to be recursive, and has to have it like int numberOfDigits(int n) {
Uninitialized bool?
15:23
@Crowz what for? Log<sub>10</sub> works
@Crowz Why would it be recursive?
@Xeo Hence static_cast's behaviour is invalid
@BartekBanachewicz A class, personally I think it's pretty lame to write it that way, it took me 10 seconds to write it this way hah
Xeo
Xeo
what
@kbok No, either there's UB around or the compiler is buggy.
15:24
but it doesn't make sense to make it recursive at all
static_cast<int>(some_bool) is always 0 or 1. In the absence of UB or compiler bugs, that assertion never fails.
number of digits is fucking O(1) and it's a logarithm
logarithms aren't O(1) to execute.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Yeah, I'm not saying static_cast sucks, I'm saying this implementation of static_cast sucks
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh fucking fantastic
15:25
but for an int, the size is fixed, so
Logarithms are not O(1) unless they use ginormous LUTs.
Sorry for the misunderstanding it was totally my fault
so it's the number of bits (data size)
the processor probably has a hardware instruction for this function anyway
also that ^
also it should be named
getNumberOfDecimalDigits
because a) your's a noun b) it's not just any digits.
15:26
Meh nouns.
After @sbi gave me a talk I'm not using nouns for function names
Verb it, biatch.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Buttcoins are better
meh
Philips Hue uses their own wireless protocol iirc
@BartekBanachewicz Meh, when the verb you put there is "get", I don't think it's worth.
15:28
you have to have another device connected via ethernet
@R.MartinhoFernandes it is. It clearly states it's a function.
It's pretty useless
If I see numberOfDigits(x) I already know it's a function.
> When it comes to wireless lights, hue is about as smart as it gets. And smart lights need a smart controller. So we created a hue smart phone app. You can't get much smarter than that.
oh god
so ~smart~
fndwGetNumberOfDigits
So stronk.
LP3DWFNGETNUMBEROFDIGITS
better, because DirectX
@CatPlusPlus You mean butter.
Buttes and donges
15:31
> Are Cyber Beans safe?
CyberBeans are safe because they use advanced web technology
collapses from laughter
seriously what the fuck am i still doing here
I should go home
It is not a serious website
no it's totally legit
I use verbs when functions actually do something. For a getter/setter pair, I usually do setMarcassin() and marcassin()
Of course it isn't. It's from that guy.
If function doesn't do anything then why does it exist
15:32
EBCO is another butt. — R. Martinho Fernandes 29 secs ago
On topic.
(Who you might remember from The External World)
That was cool.
Original is funnier because people actually believe in it
Also, "A Glitch is a Glitch", the weirdest Adventure Time episode in recorded history, is also by that guy.
damn fuck I now want a few hue lightbulbs
15:37
Oh gawd, I hate zillion overload candidates for op<<.
I could control them with my Myo! <3
(when it finally ships)
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes haha
@CatPlusPlus That's a controversial debate as old as programming itself
Xeo
Xeo
@BartekBanachewicz Hahahaha, no
:)
jedi powers!
Xeo
Xeo
15:38
lol
user1357851
A function can do nothing under certain conditions, but does something under other conditions
Xeo
Xeo
I have a hard time not laughing
<insert "indistinguishable from magic" quote here>
@BartekBanachewicz You ordered one?
@kbok myo? Sure I did.
15:40
After the raspberry pi and pebble debacles I don't think I'm buying any new innovative hardware anytime soon
Mostly for Hero camera control, but I of course am going to try it everywhere I can
I have plenty functions that do nothing. Virtual functions in base classes where I cannot use abstract.
I have an old HTC magic
it runs chrooted Debian
@BartekBanachewicz of course it doesn't, but that's what they want
I should use it more
put a normal webserver on it and stuff
and a minicraft server :3
I wonder how much RAM that would take
Xeo
Xeo
15:41
@kbok The Occulus Rift is kind of tempting me
Minicraft is in general quite efficient
While working on my previous project there was many buttons that did nothing on some contexts so I proposed that we merged all of them into only one button that did nothing and label it as such
@BartekBanachewicz It doesn't do everything yet, does it?
15:42
@kbok There was a debacle with the raspberry pi?
Read [C++11: 14.7.3/7].
@R.MartinhoFernandes well, of course not. I was busy working on Lundi
@EtiennedeMartel Bought one. Read tons of articles about it on the internet. Never used it.
@kbok WOT? Hide the buttons not needed in current context.
still, the terrain and voxels eat up most of the space
15:42
@kbok But why did you buy one?
@EtiennedeMartel Because I thought I'd use it
@kbok Oh, so it's your fault then.
could initializing members of a class inside the ctor instead of in the init list cause UB because they aren't initialized?
I did not have a girlfriend at the time, okay
Oct 16 '11 at 21:31, by Luc Danton
> When writing a specialization, be careful about its location; or to make it compile will be such a trial as to kindle its self-immolation.
15:43
even if objects and other stuffsz quadruple the memory I use, I should be still far ahead
Oldest instance in the Lounge.
@EtiennedeMartel I didn't say it wasn't.
1 hour ago, by Xeo
Oct 25 '12 at 23:25, by Xeo
When writing a specialization,
be careful about its location;
or to make it compile
will be such a trial
as to kindle its self-immolation.
/* §14.7.3 [temp.expl.spec] p7 */
i am heading home. See you there and I am going to write function_caller today
Latest instance in the Lounge.
Xeo
Xeo
15:44
Dec 16 '11 at 19:36, by Xeo
> When writing a specialization, be careful about its location; or to make it compile will be such a trial as to kindle its self-immolation.
First, bitches!
@R.MartinhoFernandes dammit.
@MartinJames There was also a proposal to merge all the buttons/menu items that made the app crash into one "express exit" button.
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
Oct 16 '11 at 21:31, by Luc Danton
> When writing a specialization, be careful about its location; or to make it compile will be such a trial as to kindle its self-immolation.
Wow that must be a famous standard quote eh
where did I find it then? the tab was open before hours before I read it
Xeo
Xeo
15:44
Oh, wait, '11 D:
Damn
@kbok Hehe!
oh, @EtiennedeMartel on FB
quoted at least 3 times.
Xeo
Xeo
LUUUUUC
15:45
1 min ago, by R. Martinho Fernandes
1 hour ago, by Xeo
Oct 25 '12 at 23:25, by Xeo
When writing a specialization,
be careful about its location;
or to make it compile
will be such a trial
as to kindle its self-immolation.
/* §14.7.3 [temp.expl.spec] p7 */
33 secs ago, by Rapptz
quoted at least 3 times.
What have I done.
It's like building a pedestal for the quote
Today my three year-old discovered Robot's favorite Power Rangers episode: Power Rangers Turbo: Glyph Hanger.
15:46
Season 1, episode 10, for any who want to watch...
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Yeah, where did you think I found out about that?
user1357851
OMG Ell & abyx are the longest serving lounger here according to this: Ell: 3rd day, abxy 4th day.
@JerryCoffin Turbo? Nothx
@EtiennedeMartel Your daily read-through?
I'm off. I need a couple hours sleep - AGM at club tonite. We've all seen the accounts already and nobody except committee members turns up. So, it's going to be a beerfest.
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Maybe.
user1357851
15:50
Tony the puss is fairly old too (1st apparence: 8th day)
@LightnessRacesinOrbit Can't blame you -- even at that age, he's selective enough he's only watched something like 4 episodes (but I'm pretty sure he's watched every episode of the original Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers at least 10 times).
user1357851
ereOn: 11th
Woa, guys, I'm in the "frequently in room" list!
so wats new
Grats have a cookie
2
15:54
apart from a bad idea
@CatPlusPlus Can you ship it by Fedex?
@EtiennedeMartel Sure. You cover the shipping cost though
Fuck that.
You can keep your cookie.
@ScottW HA HA HA. Yes.
15:57
It is a very funny job
The PA guys are relevant, as always.
Guys, what's so funny about fedex?

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