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21:00
@R.MartinhoFernandes C++14 is gonna have variable templates, right
Xeo
Xeo
@LucDanton ?
Perhaps I got the syntax wrong?
@sehe I hope not.
@Xeo You'd need that.
Xeo
Xeo
It's not invalid syntax today.
21:01
New adopted paper: N3651, Variable Templates (Revision 1)—Gabriel Dos Reis http://bit.ly/17UjLwL
@sehe That's just a draft :<
@Xeo True, although T would need to be function type, right?
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hey, only I can resort to wishful thinking.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Adopted, though
@DeadMG Will you update the room topic yourself?
Xeo
Xeo
21:04
@sehe struct X{ template<class> struct Bar{}; }, struct Y{ template<class> void Bar(){} }; are both valid in Foo::template Bar<T> if passed as Foo and assuming T to be a type.
And then there's member alias-templates
My stack of pizza boxes is growing and growing
hmm, variable templates cannot be used in template parameters. Interesting.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Well, same for function templates.
Xeo
Xeo
21:07
Oooh, this reminds me I wanted to test something with ambiguous syntax...
Uncertain<T> is not a bad idea
Xeo
Xeo
@DomagojPandža Nah, real cat would just barf hair-balls all over Bartek
@CaptainGiraffe lol
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Oh, that way. That would not be allowed for variable templates?
21:09
@Xeo Oh maybe I misunderstood.
Xeo
Xeo
Also, that's a template argument
not parameter :P
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: This just in: Unicode is hards. Assembler is hards. It's all the hards. [c++] [c++11] [coliru] [no-helpdesk]
@DeadMG You're so hards.
21:11
@CaptainGiraffe Sounds like a job for monads.
@DeadMG [Dare-to-beliebe]
@R.MartinhoFernandes Could be. My knowledge of monads are mostly superficial
@EtiennedeMartel I'm incredibly hard.
@CaptainGiraffe I love the name. Uncertainty.
@DeadMG Blue balls of fire.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG I thought that was the joke. :( I didn't expect it to be an actual paper
@CaptainGiraffe Sounds like Maybe at first glance, but I guess it's not, since C# has Nullable<T> for that
21:15
@EtiennedeMartel just received my copy of WPF4 Unleashed :)
Woop woop.
@Xeo It's not.
Maybe<T> is either a T, or it's empty.
I always forget the order of std::array's template parameters for some reason.
Uncertain<T> is a T with some margin of error.
So my professor says my program won't compile and has severe syntax errors. I assume he's talking about not using -std=c++0x on his g++ command
D:
Xeo
Xeo
21:17
Yeah, I concluded that after reading a bit more
Does C++ have any sort of logo?
Xeo
Xeo
@EtiennedeMartel Just like a C-tyle array.. first the type, then the number
@Pawnguy7 No
I was thinking, like the HTML5 one. My blog post looks like an essay, and a picture would help.
A C and two plus signs.
I even explicitly gave the guy a make file
Xeo
Xeo
21:18
Ah, Uncertain<T> trucks along a distribution it seems
how hard is it to use a damn make file
Hm. Perhaps I can whip something up quick.
Ell
Ell
I don't see the point of templated variables
there isn't one
but in Bristol the Committee seemed to be a bit on crack, frankly
Ell
Ell
it seems like c++ is going a bad way :o
Xeo
Xeo
21:19
It saves two (!!) characters!
Ell
Ell
but I don't know anything
get wide finished :P
I'm working on it
Clang's crazy shenanigans are hard to deal with
@Ell I don't think so.
but I did implement overload-set-as-function-object yesterday
Ell
Ell
just get @ThePhD to reinvent it. I'm sure he'll have it done in no time :P
Xeo
Xeo
21:21
@DeadMG Oh?
@Xeo Yep
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG What exactly does that mean?
Went to EBGames to buy Tomb Raider. I was there for about 2 min and the guy managed to ask me 4 times if I wanted a used copy instead of a new one. STFU and let me support my industry.
Ell
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel I think move semantics are great, and tbh I only started programming with c++0x so I don't know any other. Maybe I'm just afraid of change, or following the crowd, or simply don't know enough. But I don't see the need for template variables. Having said that filesystem & networking likely offset that anyway
21:22
@Borgleader DRM-free high five!
using test := cpp("WideLibrary/test.h");
Main() {
    test.f();
    x := test.std.vector!(int8)();
    test.std.sort(x.begin(), x.end(), helper);
}
helper(int8 lhs, int8 rhs) {
    return true;
}
helper(test.std.string lhs, test.std.string rhs) {
    return lhs;
}
this is both legal and implemented Wide.
Thoughts?
Xeo
Xeo
My thoughts.
Xeo, dayum. That's cold.
21:23
Hm.
@Ell Congratulations on being old.
Xeo
Xeo
@DeadMG Ah, cool. I basically had that in mind. I guess every overload adds another operator() or something? Or do you automatically collect them?
@Ell So, you're part of the "a feature I won't use is a bad feature" crowd?
Do you have any constructive criticism?
@Xeo Every overload adds another operator().
Ell
Ell
21:24
@EtiennedeMartel I think I'm just very uninformed, I'm still a noob after all :P
Xeo
Xeo
@Pawnguy7 Yes: Don't waste my screenspace in the middle of a discussion. :)
Ell
Ell
I'm also an extremely indecisive person xD
when you pass an OverloadSet to Clang and try to convert it to a clang::QualType, I declare struct __HEXADDRESS { T operator()(args);... };
then create a simple trampoline which forwards to the corresponding Wide method.
Oh. That was some pretty bad timing.
Xeo
Xeo
Sounds like something I had in mind some time, for when I implement my own language.
21:25
eh
Xeo
Xeo
@Pawnguy7 You could've just linked it, y'know.
it's not actually that simple.
Meh, overloads.
for example, if you did
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Btw, I guess Concepts aren't really type classes.
21:26
@Xeo I don't know how to not make it.. is this called oneboxing too?
module M { f() { ... } y() { std.sort(..., f); } } f(...) {...}
then only M.f is considered
not the global f.
@R.MartinhoFernandes What would you do instead?
@DeadMG I like it. Please, proceed.
oh, by the way
21:27
@Ell You don't have to have an opinion on things you feel you're not informed enough about. "I don't know" is fine.
just don't expect calling std::sort to actually execute correctly right now.
Clang codegens that function in a batshit insane way and I don't currently have the right mechanisms to deal with it.
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Thinking about it, maybe they are. I thought at first type classes allowed you to effectively "overload" certain functions, but it's really just another pattern, right?
Ell
Ell
@LucDanton okay, I will try to hold myself back in future
Xeo
Xeo
Although I wonder what happens if you have two identical patterns - I guess the signature sorts that out?
@Ell Eh, don't let me dictate what you should or should not think. I wanted to bring to light a third option however.
@Xeo That's all nice and stuff, but it's not what I typed
Xeo
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes instance Monad Stuff where (>>=) _ _ = ...; and instance Monad Fuzz where (>>=) _ _ = ... ; (as a bad example)
Cannot have two functions with the same name in scope.
You would have to either rename them on import, or import them qualified.
Ell
Ell
@LucDanton I usually go for the "I don't know" option, esp. in person, but it's easy to forget that your (my) opinion is probably less valid than others I think. For example I discuss politics with my school mates - the death of margaret thatcher. But I am far too young to know much about politics and I always end up just regurgitating what my parents told me anyway. I think it is good advice to say "just say I don't know" sometimes, I think this is one of those times given my limited experience
Xeo
Xeo
Erm, how do actual monads in Haskell do it then?
21:30
Oh wait.
The only way to overload names is with typeclasses
I read that wrong.
@DomagojPandža I am, somewhat. It's the difficults.
I thought you were defining >>= in different classes.
21:31
So many hards.
Ah. That is how you do it :D
@Xeo Type inference handles the decision.
Xeo
Xeo
so its the signature
@DomagojPandža It'd go a lot easier if Clang was less insane.
@Xeo Yes. The type of (>>=) is (Monad m) => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b.
21:32
IME that and the rules about matching the appropriate instance means that (ab)using classes for the sake of overloading a name is kinda meh.
Ell
Ell
I dropped my tablet down the stairs and the wifi isn't working well anymore. But it seems crazy that dropping it down the stairs would reduce the wifi reliability. Damaging a chip a little would surely render it either working or not?
Stop dropping things.
@Ell Nope, stuff like loose cables, slightly changed resistance on-chip, that kind of thing.
Ell
Ell
Hmm. I rooted it so I think the warranty is void :/
@DeadMG Dunno. But overloads means overload resolution, and fuck that.
21:34
yeah, Wide can currently only resolve overloads for C++ overload sets, and for Wide functions by argument count.
Even in C# overload resolution is goddamn mess.
well
I can set whatever rules I want in Wide
do_what_i!(mean)
lol
@DeadMG They could too in C#.
21:37
true enough.
so far I was thinking of a relatively simple sum of squares or maybe just sum for the ranks of each conversion sequence
wat
"relatively simple sum of squares"?
I, too, like to LSM in my head when calling stuff.
I was really leaning more towards sum
but it only makes a difference where you have multiple potential overloads with multiple valid implicit conversions
I mean, what would you suggest?
21:41
I made an exam question "Compare RAII to the strategy used by Java/.C#" I feel like I could be in a world of hurt
I am now picturing a tutorial "And the first overload is picked because it ranks better according to the magical overload formula:
(actual real formula for sum of squares)
as if I would tolerate mathematicalese
@DeadMG Keeeeeeel it!
Ell
Ell
Sum of squares. We did that in maths. Let me try and remember the formula
what, kill function overloading?
21:42
hahahahaha
Ell
Ell
n/4(soemthing :P)
Now it's the real one!
You don't remember formulas, you derive them, dammit. You're doing it wrong. :(
Haha. This is a first, for me:
Ell
Ell
:'(
21:43
> Clippy: It looks like you are trying to write a commandline argument parser. Would you like help with that?
@DomagojPandža ikr :( "tau is easier because formulas are easier to memorize when there are no 2s"
@sehe include "argp.h"
0
A: Return type deduction of boost spirit expression made of variadic function expanded arguments

seheYou accidentally returned the TStruct type from the expandBitwise helper. Fix it like so: template<typename T> auto expandBitwise(T const& t) -> decltype(t.rule_) { return t.rule_; } template<typename T,typename ...Tail> auto expandBitwise(T const& t,Tail const&... tail) -> decltype(t.rule_...

Ell
Ell
@sehe did you get that on this chat? I remember getting a clippy on the super user chat, it made me laugh xD
@MooingDuck You'd always help me, and this was one of those times.
21:45
How do you parse commandline on windows?
anyway
I think that a sum-of-ranks thing should be simple enough.
@sehe long answers, I suck too hard to upvote c++ stuff
@Ell What did you do, install Dropbox?
2
Ell
Ell
@FredOverflow heh :P
hahahahahahahahahah
21:46
lol
getopt/argp on windows?
here is a random question I just thought of, say you released something on github under a particular open source license, could you then retroactively change the license so someone who got under open source could be in violation, or does it apply at the time they obtained it
@JustinMeiners Yes
Open source licenses don't have revokation clauses, AFAIK.
yes as in at time of obtain?
21:48
ahaha
@JustinMeiners Yes
ok makes sense
@TonyTheLion Respectfully. Of course. :D
No getopt on windows I gather. You poor fucks.
Ahahahah, the part with the vegetable cracks me up.
21:52
The apple?
@DomagojPandža but of course :)
Fuck PTP. Why the fuck can't this shit mount as a normal filesystem. ARgh.
Does anyone know of a decent C++ IDE?
21:54
that has good intellisense
@R.MartinhoFernandes install sshfs and youd be good
@JABFreeware They don't exist.
@CaptainGiraffe How's that related?
@Mysticial so I have write one myself? make my own IDE??
@JABFreeware Yeah. Or just put up with the Visual Studio one. :)
21:55
@Mysticial its AWFUL
very minimal intellisense
I actually disable it at work.
@R.MartinhoFernandes why?
The red squiggles are annoying and useless (because they are wrong).
21:56
Intellisense -> Stupidsense
There is a way to make it work. But you have to set up your headers perfectly though.
@JABFreeware Hopefully AppCode will be nice when it's done. But for now, no.
Every single file must have all its dependencies included.
@JABFreeware You mean autocompletion? Because only VS has IntelliSense.
@EtiennedeMartel well I mean like:
is I type fstre, why cant fstream come up, as it obvious thats what I need
like C#
@R.MartinhoFernandes what?
(C# IntelliSense is crappy too; more on that after the break)
@R.MartinhoFernandes I actually quite like it.
@EtiennedeMartel Shut up, you use R#.
@EtiennedeMartel me too
21:59
@R.MartinhoFernandes Hey, I disabled R#'s intellisense and use VS'.
okay so is it called autocompletion?
what Im looking for
?
@EtiennedeMartel How can you survive after being spoiled?
yes ctrl-space is useful for v.push_b<Ctrl-space
@R.MartinhoFernandes Let's just say R#'s intellisense failed my "first impressions" test, unlike the rest of R#.
Never felt like revisiting it.

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