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21:00
how old is everyone here?
less than tomorrow, more than yesterday
@javac msot of us are 18-25ish, with a few outliers.
A few days ago I predicted that at one point in the future someone will write an article titled "Built-in types considered harmful". Apparently it already happened to Java.
I'm 15.
I feel young and niave
@javac I think Jordan is also roughly that age.
21:03
@javac You act that way too ;)
@javac probably a good thing
1907
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are released every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a good C++ book...

well, that was the first language i actually became successful in
at first i started with c++
and learned basic functions and stuff
and procedural stuff
Do you write your code in Notepad?
and then I quit c++
cause i was getting impatient
and I wanted to start creating real apps, not console stuff
so i leanred Java and Swing
and i became succcesfukl
but then i realized how stupid java was
6
21:06
@ScottW Tainted with procedural programming. Eeeuw!
2
how fat it was
how slow it was
how dumb it was
so then i quit java and went back to c++
I don't think you'd know any of those things to judge it
and now I'm here to stay
Nor is switching C++ automatically going to make your code run faster or is any smarter than using anything else.
it isn't THAT slow actually, just about 30% slower
21:07
i hate the fact that java is so slow, there are no pointers
There are pointers in Java
really?
Java has way too many pointers. I wish Java had fewer pointers.
Yes?
wow. anyways, i' mnot going back. I'm gonna learn c++ the real way
21:08
C++ has pointers too but you're not supposed to use them
4 mins ago, by FredOverflow
1907
Q: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List

grepsedawkThis question attempts to collect the few pearls among the dozens of bad C++ books that are released every year. Unlike many other programming languages, which are often picked up on the go from tutorials found on the Internet, few are able to quickly pick up C++ without studying a good C++ book...

@Rapptz I wouldn't take it that far.
@StackedCrooked It's okay to use the this pointer ;)
@StackedCrooked Well I wanted to word it better but quit half way through.
whatever. I'm sorry i left c++ everyone. It was stupid of me. I was an impatient whacko who switched to java do some GUI programming
:(
but now i'm stuck with this stupid name
21:09
I don't really care what you use.
@javac you can change your SO name once a month easily
Or you can make a new SE account and change your name there.
yes
windows 95
the first OS i used was 98
and i loved it.
At 5
@ScottW I still use 98 sometimes (C&C:RA)
21:12
My first OS was Windows 98 too.
@ScottW exactly :D
lol
i occasionally use my 98 to play old games
Hey all
I changed my name
@ScottW I love the automatic forwarding through -> operators.
It's like a machine gun. Or something.
21:17
you should re-log
@javac GUI programming in C++ is a terrible experience, believe me.
i noticed.
i tried
wxwidgets
@javac takes a few minutes to "transfer" to the chat server
Cygwinnian is the new name.
didn't like. i guess i'll just learn the winapi
21:19
Oh god no! WinAPI is terrible C crap. And I generally love C. But WinAPI is an abomination.
ok. I'll learn visual c++
@javac Visual C++ is not a GUI framework. It's an IDE to write C++ code.
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow Wrong, it's an implementation of C++. :)
user142019
I'd use Cocoa if I had to write a GUI in C++.
21:21
Fuck GUI's
i now like the console
Xeo
Xeo
@TonyTheLion s/'//
but before i was the kid that thought programming was all about making a program that would appeal to a end user, and selling it and making money
@javac you dumped your guifriend?
user142019
The only even semi-decent GUI library I've ever used was HTML + CSS + jQuery and assuming WebKit.
21:23
@StackedCrooked Base()->~Base(); looks really dangerous. You don't want to destruct your object twice :)
Xeo
Xeo
@Zoidberg'-- I heard WxWidgets is great! :D
@Xeo It's decent
Xeo
Xeo
(That was a joke, btw.)
@Xeo Programming WxWidgets is a slap in the face of the modern C++ programmer.
Xeo
Xeo
Most of the time, when I include ':D' at the end of a questionable statement, it's a troll-smiley.
user142019
21:24
A Lounge<C++> GUI library! Let's write vapourware again!
lol
user142019
@ScottW nah Cocoa and Objective-C. >:3
Xeo
Xeo
@Zoidberg'-- What was that other vaporware's name?
lol
user142019
21:25
@Xeo Kyrostat.
Xeo
Xeo
Oh, right.
user142019
I have no single idea.
user142019
All I did was writing the OpenGL/window/input shit for OS X.
user142019
It's hilarious how people try to write cross-platform GUI libraries.
user142019
21:27
They will always fail.
@Rapptz wow
Xeo
Xeo
@Rapptz What's that from?
Project Euler
@Rapptz put it on your resume!
@MooingDuck I work in Medicine lol
21:28
@Zoidberg'-- My Qt-based app looks good on Windows, Mac OS X and Linux (IMO). (I didn't write any platform-specific code.)
Xeo
Xeo
Lame. I got 'em all. White, of course. ... Wait, having them white isn't the goal?
^ A Snake clone I recently wrote for my students to extend.
user142019
AWESOME. What did you write it in?
You're a teacher?
C++ with DirectDraw :) Well, based on TinyPTC, which uses DirectDraw to be precise.
user142019
21:31
lol cool
user142019
I was writing a snake clone but it was so boring.
user142019
The logic isn't too difficult.
user142019
The snake is just a stack of coordinates.
I wrote several snake clones for my TI-83
i did that before
except i used a ti 84
user142019
21:32
I want Enterprise Snake written in Java. Complete will all kinds of UML diagrams.
@Zoidberg'-- A stack wouldn't work too well for a snake :)
std::deque<Position> schlange;
size_t laenge;
user142019
Ewww non-English identifiers.
@FredOverflow what' s the second one? length? Why do you track the length seperately?
Xeo
Xeo
länge
Or did you want that in English? :P
@MooingDuck How long the snake is, in case it just grew due to a bonus it will be larger than schlange.size()
21:34
@StackedCrooked Cross-platform UI library -> Good, Rewriting the entire standard library -> Not so good
user142019
@FredOverflow In my implementation I just used std::vector<Point> snake;.
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck And now space them out after that.
:)
@FredOverflow no wait, you mean temporary bonuses don't you
It's not that complicated:
schlange.push_back(naechste);
if (schlange.size() > laenge)
{
    bildschirm[schlange.front().y][schlange.front().x] = ' ';
    schlange.pop_front();
}
The duck got Xeowned
user142019
21:35
FRED Y U NO ENGLISH
@Borgleader I didn't even understand what he said, I realized I misunderstood Fred though
@Zoidberg'-- Because we live in Germany? :)
@Borgleader I don't care much. Nothing prevents me from using the regular std. (Safe a few conversions between QString and std::string.)
Xeo
Xeo
@FredOverflow Ew, you're having his ass as his face?
@Borgleader That's a thing?
user142019
21:36
@ScottW Shouldn't students be taught to use decent identifiers from the beginning?
@Zoidberg'-- The language is not relevant for that.
@Xeo What? A deque has no concept of head and tail, if that's what you mean :)
@R.MartinhoFernandes Robowned, Robotowned, or maybe even Rowned for you.
@Zoidberg'-- he has it in a foreign language for the same reason you object to it being in a foreign language.
user142019
Ah well. I'm always annoyed when my teachers use Dutch identifiers. xD
21:37
Robowned sounds like he used his dick on you
@StackedCrooked That's one smart tetris player
@Zoidberg'-- Yes. And we use German identifiers mostly.
wait, do I have hats?
They should be in your profile
21:38
@javac I put my intelligence into it.
I haz hats!
they're all far too big for my duck
lol
lol
@MooingDuck That sounds weird.
how do I un-hat myself?
user142019
Muh.
user142019
21:39
Time to learn UML.
@Rapptz Yes. Wanna come to my STL lectures next year? ;)
@Zoidberg'-- hahaha
user142019
@MooingDuck ;<
@javac You can play human vs computer mode. It will probably take you some practice before you can win, but it's definitely possible!
@StackedCrooked how long did it take you to make that?
21:41
@StackedCrooked linky?
@FredOverflow Here.
@MooingDuck Clicking on a hat toggles it.
user142019
Standard Torture Library
@StackedCrooked Oh, I thought there was a video. Not gonna play Tetris now.
@MooingDuck Click on the hat you're wearing I think
21:42
@R.MartinhoFernandes oh good
@StackedCrooked Also, Oct 2011? Is it completely finished?
@FredOverflow I started a new branch that used @jalf's STM. That is actually almost finished. But it's been in that state for a year now.
Software Tetrisional Memory?
21:44
It was actually during that refactoring that I cursed myself for not having respected the law-of-demeter.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Fuck me sideways if that's true.
4
double P = 3.14;
double NP = 0;
P = NP;   // What's the problem?
Star it.
Imma pin it.
@R.MartinhoFernandes ... has history been made?
user142019
ON THE LAST DAY, THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED!
21:46
Wait, wrong link.
user142019
xD
> The Bayesian arithmetic environment can also be regarded as a toy model for quantum mechanics.
sounds like bullshit to me
It's on the Internet!
Do you really think people would do that?
Go on the internet and post invalid proofs?
21:48
NO!
I won't believe it.
Arghhh, header file with inline function that returns a reference to a static string -> access violation. If I move the string in my main.cpp file -> no problem... Wtf msvc
Maybe it's a bug I'll try 2010
@Borgleader is this in a dll?
@R.MartinhoFernandes The pinned url points to an older version of the article.
@StackedCrooked No. It points to the latest version.
The first link I posted is another article that cites this one.
21:51
Ah, I see.
At least one of those proofs is wrong.
user142019
Maybe they are both right but in parallel universes.
They both are unintelligible to me, though.
@MooingDuck No is only an exe
its your basic run of the mill Win32 project
@DeadMG Well, stuff is put on the arxiv for peer review, so take it with a grain of salt.
Also, there's the fact that a proof of opposite is also around.
Its in a function so it shouldn't
Do you really think I'd come here, in a room on the Internet and tell a lie?
@StackedCrooked lol
21:59
Guys, whats better Git or Subversion or Mercurial
The sun is shining.
I personally like Git
^^ I told a lie.
user142019
Git, but I'm biased as hell.
user142019
@TonyTheLion You did not.
user142019
22:00
The sun is shining, only you can't see it from here.
I like Hg and Git
@Zoidberg'-- offs
user142019
Well, you lied when you said you lied. :^)
user142019
I'm designing software.
user142019
In UML. ;_;
22:03
And I get the same thing in VS2010...
@Zoidberg'-- I'm sorry ;_;
@Borgleader link?
user142019
@MooingDuck It's not ur fault!
@Borgleader the preprocessing block?
Yeah
for some reason the line where the string gets created fails
22:07
find a different tutorial and see if that messes up too.
@Borgleader complete clean and rebuild with precompiled headers disabled?
I,ll try
user142019
Fuck it. I'll complete this diagram next tomorrow.
Find it curious that NRA thinks that if bad guys have shooters, good guys should have them too, but don't mention ugly guys?
Obviously those dig.
22:15
0
Q: Is it possible to execute functions outside int main()

RaindropHere's code for my main function. The print_static() and print_auto() functions are defined in the "auto vs static.h" header file. I'm just trying to use those functions without putting them in the int main(). Is it possible to execute functions outside int main() #include "stdafx.h" #include &l...

user142019
@Rapptz Dat indentation and bracing.
hoooly fucking shit that's ugly
hmmm
Dishonoured for 50% off on Steam
@StackedCrooked oh, I hope you weren't waiting for me to fix anything, because if so, I forgot all about it :D
it's probably a good thing I haven't publicly released the library. I'd make a terrible maintainer :D
No worries. You fixed the bugs but then was caught up in somebody else.
Btw, I read that bazaar is dying.
22:22
yeah, looks like it. Not really sure if it's dying as such, but no real new development taking place as far as I can tell
user142019
Hg poisoning?
I've been using git for my own projects lately
I'm inclined to try out git.
I actually seem to recall I exported the stm repo to git too. I wonder if I still have that
eh
I have enough trouble using Mercurial properly :P
user142019
22:23
I only use Git.
@StackedCrooked yeah, like it or not, git does seem to be the big de facto standard. Hg is still a viable alternative, but that's just it, it's the alternative, not the "default"
user142019
My UML diagram is fucked up.
@Zoidberg'-- Well, of course. It's an UML diagram
user142019
TicketsController depends on Ticket, not on Comment.
user142019
22:25
I'm an idiot.
3
so did you add that to your UML diagram? @Zoidberg'-- is-a (inherits from?) idiot
One thing that I realized when using STM that there are many non-memory resources that also need to be protected from data races. And often I encountered a situation where a scoped lock was around a combination of the two. Changing that to STM requires a bit of hoop jumping.
user142019
@jalf I just checked the status. All mutexes and locks have been replaced with STM in the Tetris code. For simplicity I had reduced to game to single player. But apart from that it seems to work. link
22:42
@StackedCrooked cool
@StackedCrooked yeah, I remember we talked about ways to better handle I/O and other ide-effect'ey stuff
In the end the trick was always the same. Make a local copy in stm transaction and store it outside of the transaction scope. Then you can use it in the mutex lock.
I should be able to take some of the pain out of it by providing an api to register hooks like on_commit and on_rollback
I could probably think of better solutions now.
@jalf yay, typos. That should've been side-effect'ey, of course
Those hooks would probably be useful.
22:46
@StackedCrooked hmm, can you give me an example of what you mean (in pseudocode, perhaps)?
Hey all
@StackedCrooked yeah, they would be pretty essential for I/O at least. Write something to stdout only if the transaction actually commits, rather than every time it is attempted
so that's been on my todo list for ages. It's just been a while since I implemented anything from that list ;)
Ell
Ell
Are you writing a git library?
@Ell no, a C++ library
which is currently hosted in a bzr repository, and which I might one day convert into a git repository, but other than that, it has nothing to do with git ;)
@jalf The logger was the first time I encountered it. The flush function opens a transaction, creates a copy of the log queue and clears the log queue. After the transaction has finished the local copy is pushed to the output stream.
22:49
bzr? I never heard of that
Ell
Ell
Oh I saw on commit and and rollback and heard you mentioning git so :L
@DeadMG I mentioned it back when you were looking for a source control system :)
Ell
Ell
Is the alcohol in vodka, beer, etc. Always just ethanol?
that's what alcohol is, in the colloquial meaning
the other alcohols aren't safe for human consumption at any level, I believe
@Ell if you went blind after drinking it, it probably wasn't
but yes, it is supposed to be ethanol
22:55
It's mostly ethanol. There are very small traces of other alcohols in some drinks (such as wine), but their names elude me atm.
@DeadMG Not that it stops anyone
@AndreiTita Methanol, pentathol, butanol.. just the regular chemical names.
@Ell yeah, in a transactional memory context, not a source control one :)
@StackedCrooked hmm, and the separate lock is required because the logger isn't "opened" the way shared<T> objects are, and so it doesn't hook into the stm system
@DeadMG bazaar

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