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user142019
12:00 AM
What is the best interface for a lexer? A function std::vector<token> lex(std::string const&)?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes @EtiennedeMartel Guess what
 
@DeadMG "purely side-effectful" - lol
 
@Zoidberg'-- It's usually better to generate tokens on demand
 
@Zoidberg'-- streamable, streamable. Otherwise, it will definitely not scale, and will suck performance eggs
 
And read input on demand, instead of reading everything at once
 
12:01 AM
@Zoidberg'-- Iterator-based, nubbery.
 
So token_generator lex(something_thats_definitely_not_istream&)
If you're going this way
 
@DeadMG I used to scan Google Code Search looking for code samples that were similar to my code.
 
user142019
Thanks!
 
@DeadMG as in input-iterator. Yes that conflicts with the interest of being able to backtrack, but a limited buffer should to once you know your grammar
 
Don't write grammars that require backtracking :v
 
12:02 AM
I agree
I think that lexers should not have to backtrack
 
user142019
I'm going to implement Zoidlang in Python. Fuck C++.
 
Good choice
 
I've never heard anyone say they hate Python. That's remarkable for a programming langauge.
 
Ell
Lexers/Parsers still elude me
Actually, programming still eludes me
 
There are some not-very-good parts of Python, but in the most part it's just right (tm)
 
user142019
12:04 AM
Of course, it's made by a Dutchman!
 
It's designed and implemented by people who know their shit
 
Ell
Do you prefer it to c#?
 
@CatPlusPlus so is c++
 
Timsort originates from CPython and is now used in other implementations as well
 
@Ell C# .... smh
 
12:05 AM
@johnathon It's designed on wrong foundations
So maybe they know shit, but decisions are bad thorough
 
IMHO it's not.
 
Yes, it is
Things like MVP should not exist
 
that's a Microsoft thing.
 
That's most vexing parse
 
How is mainstream Python 3 adoption currently?
 
12:07 AM
The most vexing parse is a specific form of syntactic ambiguity resolution in the C++ programming language. The term was used by Scott Meyers in Effective STL (2001). It is formally defined in section 6.8 of the C++ language standard. Example with classes An example is: class Timer { public: Timer(); }; class TimeKeeper { public: TimeKeeper(const Timer& t); int get_time(); }; int main() { TimeKeeper time_keeper(Timer()); return time_keeper.get_time(); } The line TimeKeeper time_keeper(Timer()); could be disambiguated either as # a variable definition for variable t...
 
Most bad things in C++ are direct consequence of C foundations
 
@CatPlusPlus to that i agree.
 
C++ is not good, it's only good enough and hard to replace in its niche
And most people are terrible at it, so gods help you if you have to maintain C++ codebase
 
@CatPlusPlus it's getting beter.
 
No, it's getting more things built on top of shit
Things that are bad stay bad, because they can't change them
 
12:09 AM
man
you do not want to know how long it takes the debug build of Clang to parse the Windows headers
 
@StackedCrooked It's ongoing. Most libraries are available
 
hmm
 
@DeadMG out of rabid curiosity, Why are you having clang parse the windows headers?
 
fun
 
I wonder if it's possible to define a subset of C++ that drops it's the backwards compatibility baggage. And activate it with a compiler flag.
 
12:11 AM
You have weird definition of fun
 
agreed.
 
Get drunk and let's play some games
 
fuck you, Clang
 
@StackedCrooked Sure, but it's a different language then
 
when I try to look up a name, you say it doesn't exist
 
12:12 AM
You might as well keep the implementation separate
 
but then you error when I try to generate a function which calls it because it has the wrong number of arguments
if you can't find the name how do you know how many arguments it takes?
 
it found it while compiling
 
@DeadMG 4
Decided by fair dice roll
 
5
 
@DeadMG i hate to tell you, but the world of compilers are kinda behind how nice vs's compiler is. The only one that one may consider better than vs's , is Intels. And it rawks. If you can afford it.
 
12:13 AM
pwned
@johnathon VS does not provide a free API I can use to hook into their compiler and use it for my own undefined purposes
 
Within C++, there is a much smaller and cleaner language struggling to get out. I don't really see how a smaller language can ever get out of C++ without breaking compatibility.
 
"kinda behind how nice vs's compiler is. " ahahahahahahahahahhahahah what
 
@DeadMG actually .... LOL
 
@StackedCrooked It can't, because even the syntax is bad
 
Ell
Who uses Intel compiler?
 
12:15 AM
@CatPlusPlus i was referring to the tooling built on top of it, not so much as it's ability to not crash when compiling recursive templates
 
Rich naive people
Also if any compiler is behind, it's MSVC. By light years
 
eh, the new CTP is nice- even if it's just a CTP and still fairly buggy.
 
^ my love for C
 
DeadMG is your love for C?
 
12:15 AM
@FredOverflow ...is a snake?
 
:)
@CatPlusPlus yes
 
@DeadMG way buggy. 2012 updated though with the ctp features already :)
 
Been twiddling with the performance, and now I get 600-700 fps.
 
So it's green and poisonous
 
It's a cnake.
 
12:16 AM
@StackedCrooked No.
 
heh
@FredOverflow That should be sufficient.
 
It's not hard to get 700 FPS when there's so little on the screen
And all of it is trivial
 
LCD refresh rates are?
 
Ell
60Hz?
 
I've never had problem with refresh rates
 
12:19 AM
hmm
 
Buy a better monitor
 
@Ell That would be <20 FPS.
 
It's reaction time that matters mostly
 
it probably doesn't help that Clang thought the source file was C instead of C++
whoops
 
@StackedCrooked 60
exactly
 
12:19 AM
@DeadMG your source file, or the windows headers/
 
Dammit. You're right.
 
That's why vsync caps the FPS at 60
But you only need vsync if your GPU and/or monitor is bad and the graphics tear up
 
Strangely enough my QtTetris app also caps at 60 fps. I wonder if that is a coincidence.
 
@johnathon My source file.
 
OpenGL?
OpenGL starts with vsync enabled, AFAIR
 
12:21 AM
@DeadMG not hugely familiar with the workings of clang, though i've been in the process of updating my posix box so i can build clang and use it. But.. out of curiosity what was your source file's extension?
 
.cpp
doesn't matter though because I spanked it
 
The API should take file type as an argument somewhere
 
now I am back to the "Clang for some reason can't find the name" issue
 
Because it makes no sense to rely on filename when there might not be filename
@DeadMG Show the code
 
@DeadMG what did you use to build clang with?
 
12:24 AM
before you ask about all the new and the leaking and the taking, Clang requires that shit.
hmmm
maybe I should have checked the error logs- they're full of wchar_t related errors? curious
according to Clang, wchar_t is not a type.
well, it still gives the WriteConsoleW error, so it clearly still found the name when I tried to call it.
 
wchar_t is pile of poo
So it got that right :v
 
lol
 
@DeadMG are you using the MinGW headers or the ms vc headers?
 
mingw
 
yea.. fuck mingw
 
12:28 AM
It wouldn't even parse official SDK headers
 
the VC headers still include stuff that Clang can't handle
like __uuidof
 
of course, __uuidof is a VC compiler extension
 
maybe I should just declare WriteConsoleW myself and skip including the Windows headers for now
 
@DeadMG Its clang, why not just use std::cout ?
 
@CatPlusPlus We should try that tomorrow.
 
@johnathon Because I require the Windows API. Why else?
 
@DeadMG when working with mingw.. the idea of the Windows API is sketchy at best.
 
doesn't matter
 
Ell
Really? It worked fine whenever I've tried. Although that's not a lot
 
yea, it does. Mingw's idea of the windows api dates back to like, windows 95
 
12:32 AM
What
MinGW SDK headers are pretty much complete
 
the MinGW headers I have here include headers for stuff like Direct2D
they're not from 1995
 
@CatPlusPlus @DeadMG try to use direct2d.. i dare ya.
 
Those headers are automatically generated from IDLs
 
I'm planning on it
 
Also if something doesn't work then file a bug you scrub
 
12:34 AM
@CatPlusPlus would, if i was concerned enough with it to test out all the repos of it.
@CatPlusPlus ive' tried 2, both bugged out bad when it came to anything other than a plane jane window in narrow characters using GDI
 
2 what
 
2 different mingw repos, the official, and a prebuilt secondary recommended by STL himself.
@DeadMG btw. the function decelerations in the mingw headers are #if'd on unicode .. try turning it OFF with a define before you include any headers
 
hmm
I think that I have asked Clang to look it up at the beginning of the file, perhaps, rather than the end.
 
@Rapptz how? I don't see it
you can't decelerate functions in c++
c++ is bent on performance
 
@sehe Some people would be pretty pissed if they expected something (e.g. iPad) but received something else.
 
12:46 AM
lol, declarations
 
@Rapptz well. the assumption is, he/she may wish the other thing too
 
I'd be happy to not get an iPad
 
@sehe Well, the OP said in the comments he got the iPad too as a surprise after the proposal.
 
@sehe Transmission fluid in one's eye will cause eyesight to be tad blurry.
 
@CatPlusPlus me too actually, which makes this particular proposal-medium a bit bizarre in my mind, but hey, that's me
 
12:48 AM
Better than getting a ring box and putting iPad inside
:v
 
@johnathon I stay away from mechanics. Or the garage for that matter
@CatPlusPlus lol
 
@sehe well when your as poor as i sir, you have no choice but to do it yourself.
 
@CatPlusPlus I'd like to see someone pull that off. How would it fit?
 
Aliens
 
Saturn's rings are pretty large
 
12:50 AM
So are Uranus'.
 
BTW, I did try the linked things, AK. no avail. And I'm putting it on the stack for speed purposes. — crazy_pants Dec 18 at 17:47
I forgot about this idiot
I PUT 2GB ON A STACK FOR SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
Because it's different memory than heap WELP
I have no idea how those people envision memory
 
Still here. Worst apocalypse ever.
Cat's just slightly more grumpy
 
right
 
user142019
AIwaysGrumpyCat?
 
user142019
Y U NO ALWAYS
 
1:02 AM
well, that's my work with Clang done for one day
@Zoidberg'-- Someone else ninjaed the name?
 
The best cat
 
hmmm... SO is unusually slow for me atm.
 
user142019
Humans > dogs > cats.
 
you have way too many syntax errors — perreal 19 mins ago
 
user142019
xmonad y u no switch to workspace.
 
user142019
1:10 AM
@Rapptz I'm not even bothering to help if morons cannot indent their code.
 
Robots > Humans > Dogs > cats.
 
user142019
I should write something fun in C++.
 
@Zoidberg'-- describe 'fun'
 
Mwahaha, I'm reading "Programming Windows" and he wrote a function of 10 or so lines of code in C that essentially does a printf for MessageBox, I replaced it by 2 lines of C++ code.
 
@Borgleader That book was made to demonstrate usage of the win32 api, not so much that of using c++ with the win32 api
 
1:19 AM
@johnathon I know I know
but still it's nice to see how less of a pain in the ass it is to do things in C++
 
@Borgleader the big thing to take away from it is HOW windows works, and what api's to use for what. Then you can move over onto something like say WTL
 
user142019
I could write Hexapoda in C++.
 
wtf is WTL
 
@Borgleader Windows Template Library, thin wrapper around the windows api , with a lot of nice features similar to the MFC but without all the darn bloat.
 
it's an extension of Microsoft's ATL library, for GUI work
it's now Microsoft "open source", hosted on sourceforge i think
 
1:22 AM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf indeed.
 
just to protest against sourceforge's policy re "axis of evil" countries, use berlios instead :-)
 
hi
 
Berlios is horrible
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf if only it worked well
 
oh, it doesn't?
 
1:35 AM
Quiiiiick question. Should you null-check a pointer passed into a std::unique_ptr deleter, or does std::unique_ptr recognize that stuff is null and just not pass it down anyhow?
Also, Hi @Everybody. How's your day been?
 
try it :) I honestly wouldn't be sure
 
WOO TIME TO INVOKE SOME UB YEEAH
 
Xeo
I think it doesn't pass it down. I remember looking if it does.
 
@ThePhD y u no try it?
 
@ThePhD you too. Hectic. All with ending the previous universe and getting load balanced to the new one and stuff
@ThePhD TBH I'd always just null check before deletion. I mean, this is all supposed to inline away, and the compiler would simple eliminate an obviously redundant check.
 
Xeo
1:37 AM
3
A: Can a unique_ptr be used with a negative index without leaking memory?

XeoEdit: icepack brings up an interesting point, namely that there are only two valid pointer values that are allowed in pointer arithmetic: §5.7 [expr.add] p5 If both the pointer operand and the result point to elements of the same array object, or one past the last element of the array object...

 
Only optimize after profling
 
Xeo
Specifically
> Effects: If get() == nullptr there are no effects. Otherwise get_deleter()(get()).
 
@icepack: The deleter is not even called if get() == nullptr. — Xeo Oct 29 at 6:37
 
Aww, I set up a test already and then you all just have to go and have the answer. :c
@sehe Ah. I guess the Mayan Calendar didn't account for God('s? or Gods' ? ) concurrent resilient hash tables. Poor Mayans....
 
@ThePhD lol
 
Xeo
1:44 AM
In any case, I'll head to sleep. G'night.
 
nooooight
 
But today, WE HAVE TECHNOLOGY. We can rebuild it. And eventually we will run of of memory and god will have to start compacting and deleting people
 
It's only 3 AM
 
Niiiiiight.
Lol, "it's only 3 AM"
Yeah Xeo what's wrong with you God don't you know 6 AM is the standard geez.
 
user142019
It's weekend you fool.
 
1:46 AM
It's looooong weeeeekeeeeeend
 
user142019
I have 17 days of weekend.
 
17 days of NONSTOP PARTYIIING
 
Xeo
Sure, but I didn't get as much sleep as I'd have liked the last few days, and I have an appointment tomorrow morning, so to speak. :)
 
user142019
s/PARTYIIING/PROGRAMMMING/
 
Xeo
I have valid excuses to not stay awake!
 
1:47 AM
@Zoidberg'-- The worst part is, this is true. :c
 
@ThePhD what? people are not the universes most precious resource. nor the most contended
 
user142019
No that's not bad.
 
user142019
Programming is fun.
 
Xeo
(Don't you normally need an excuse to stay awake? Anyways, bed time.)
 
user142019
@Xeo See you later.
 
1:47 AM
@Xeo going on a date tomorrow?
 
@Xeo Well, shit. Being all responsible and stuff and being on time and shi- WAIT
@sehe EXACTLY
 
Xeo
@sehe I wish. :|
 
That wording is SUSPICIOUS
 
user142019
Shall I write an IRC server.
 
Please do
 
1:48 AM
@Zoidberg'-- In Haskell?
 
make it Cobol
 
user142019
@sehe Why? :P
 
user142019
@ThePhD in C++.
 
@Zoidberg'-- since you asked
 
Xeo
I'll just hang out with some friends, since I'll be moving away from Berlin for reals on 26th or 27th.
 
user142019
1:48 AM
I want to wrap libuv in C++ anyway, so it'd be nice if I could use it immediately.
 
I should join a project where they do networking in C++. I'd love to at least learn how to do LAN programming.
 
user142019
SHALL I WRITE IT IN FORTRAN
 
Xeo
Apropos, @R.MartinhoFernandes @sbi, any free evenings before that to hang out a bit?
 
"LAN programming". Hmmm
@Zoidberg'-- Please don't.
 
user142019
A LAN party with programmers?
 
1:49 AM
You can look at my packet editor source if you want. Not really LAN programming.
 
There's little difference in networking across LAN and WAN
 
user142019
Nah not IRC.
 
It'd actually probably be best to learn how to program for LAN. Then I could just fake the rest with Hamachi.
 
user142019
Postduif, it will be.
 
(Mostly related to NAT)
 
Xeo
1:50 AM
And that difference is hidden in the abstraction anyways, most likely.
 
@Xeo Before what?
 
@CatPlusPlus I'll keep that in mind.
 
Xeo
2 mins ago, by Xeo
I'll just hang out with some friends, since I'll be moving away from Berlin for reals on 26th or 27th.
 
@Xeo or else... you're doing it wrong :)
 
I'm flying for Christmas vacation on the 24th.
 
Xeo
1:51 AM
Oh, I see.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Portugal?
 
user142019
@sehe Poortugaal!
 
Calling it now, @Xeo will be here for at least another hour
 
Don't count on it
 
Xeo
Nah, screw it, I'll be off.
 
1:52 AM
Yeah, he's got a date.
Can't be late for that.
 
Xeo
I wasn't expecting the robot to answer.
 
We might go watch The Hobbit this weekend, but that's it.
 
user142019
lol
 
Robot works in mysterious ways
 
user142019
1:52 AM
Poortugaal is a village that is situated near the municipality of Rotterdam. Together with Rhoon, Poortugaal forms the municipality of Albrandswaard. The village has a long history dating back to the 15th century. It has a church dating from that period. The name is probably derived from Portugal. Since January 1, 1985, the village has been part of the municipality of Albrandswaard together with Rhoon. The village has a connection to the city of Rotterdam by Rotterdam Metro line D, through Poortugaal station. References External links * Map of the former municipality in 1868. ...
 
@CatPlusPlus What?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Ah, I saw that one already.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Warmth!
 
OMG it's 3:00.
 
Haha
Stop drinking
 
1:53 AM
Frustrated... How hard does one typically have to beat on someone before the understand that both pre-increment and post-increment operators modify the underlying intrinsic (or object) prior to the eval-return?
 
Xeo
@R.MartinhoFernandes Not quite! And I plan on being gone from here before that!
 
On the second thought, drink more
 
Xeo
@WhozCraig But but... post-increment doesn't return a modified object!
 
@Xeo Why plan? Does the power button not work/
 
@WhozCraig Who cares, really
 
Xeo
1:54 AM
(Fuck it guys, stop keeping me here by forcing me to answer.)
 
It doesn't really matter
@Xeo Staaay
 
Quick, shell him with more questions!
 
We've got cookies
 
@Xeo well... copying is 'modified' (identity is modified anyways)
 
Xeo
@sehe I usually have this aversion against leaving since I always get the feeling I'll miss something good.
 
1:54 AM
Yess
 
@Xeo I have no idea what you're talking about
:D
 
You will
 
Xeo
Oh well, just ping me if something good happens. Like the world ending or something.
 
It matters a heap-ton if the copy is expensive, but I concur, in the end, no one really cares anyway. It just bothers me.
 
Haha. Did anyone else laugh at heap-ton and expensive copy?
 
user142019
1:56 AM
no
 
Xeo
Oh right, I forgot, Windows loses the "hibernate" option in the start menu if I make it my default choice and it has updates to install... off to cmd and shutdown /h I go.
 
... Probably not. I need to go back to my programmer hole. ._.
 
@ThePhD I laughed while I was writing it, if that counts.
 
What copy?
Oh, right, postfix ++ exists
For some reason
 
user142019
I'm out of ideas.
 
1:58 AM
@Xeo user friendliness redefined
 
My Windows lost "hibernate" option permanently :(
I have no idea why
 
user142019
I only ever use stand-by.
 
user142019
Uptime is 20 days, 1 hour and 32 minutes.
 
@Zoidberg'-- decent for a Windoze box. My Linux dev box up in my closet rack has been up for almost three years now (will be 3 come the 2nd week of January). The only way you do that with a winbox is to never turn the damn thing on.
 
user142019
I don't have a Windows box.
 
user142019
2:01 AM
I have two Macs and one runs Linux.
 
I think MSVC just lost its marbles...
... It's demanding I export std::mutex in order for it to have a DLL interface.
... ... But it's not templated. At all...
 
If you can't keep uptime on a Windows box, you're terrible
 
@Zoidberg'-- its not a Winbox ? Just a power-save thing then ?
 
user142019
What?
 
user142019
I don't have Windows installed anywhere.
 
user142019
2:03 AM
I don't see a reason to install such inferior software.
 
@Zoidberg'-- I have it in a VM on my MBAir. Other than that, nada.
 
@Zoidberg'-- It's funny when OSX user says that
 
@CatPlusPlus Australian Windows? It's summer there.
 
@ThePhD you're not making much sense to me. How would std::mutex require 'a DLL interface'? You mean you wish to use it in your own public interface?
 
@sehe I'm as lost as you are. :c
 
2:07 AM
@ThePhD That's highly inaccurate. You have the code. Whereas we don't
 
Why do you even have mutices on the interface?
"Mutices" is so stupid.
 
Mutii
 
Mutexen
 
Mutai?
 
Um, that would be the plural of mux I suppose.
 
2:08 AM
@WhozCraig On the way to do that on linux is by not upgrading your kernel ever. So that makes your box the most insecure piece of scrap metal that money can buy
 
Updates are evil.
Everyone knows that.
 
Woah Borderlands with settable FOV
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's "Mutexes" /cc @LucDanton
 
No shit
 
There is no latin precursor or even etymology (well, no strictly): Mutual Exclusion
 
2:10 AM
warning C4251: class 'std::mutex' needs to have dll-interface to be used by clients of class <--- It's a private, static member static std::mutex initlock
Mutual Exclusionses.
 
Why do you have static mutex
 
@ThePhD oh aha. That's a warning. So, maybe don't make it public? (if it is)
 
... I wanna prounce that as Exclusionsies so badly.
 
@CatPlusPlus inb4 to synchronize access to static class resources?
 
2:12 AM
Why do you have static class resources
 
@CatPlusPlus The point was that std::mutex isn't documented to be a class template instance
@CatPlusPlus good question
 
@sehe Uh. Sort of like that. I'm using XAudio2, and it demands you create one IXAudio2 global, by which all things reference and create themselves from said global XAudio resource.
Audio can be done concurrently though, so I threw in a std::mutex to protect it from the forces of evil.
 
It applies to non-templates, too.
 
@CatPlusPlus I did not know. Guess I gotta export it then.
 
Probably
I don't do C++ DLLs
 
2:14 AM
Well, I'm taking this engine to the Global Game Jam, and I might be forced to work on a team.
If that's the case, I don't want to check everyone into my VCS. I'm just gonna hand them the DLL: "Have fun!"
Or maybe I should just make a guest VCS. ... Hm.
... Differing by calling convention. Maybe I need to use _stdcall instead.
Except... I forgot where I stick _stdcall. To google!
:O Exporting it and all worked. Error-free!
YEAH! Jumps up for a high-five!
 
@CatPlusPlus oh well, yeah, but that would not involved "export", rather declspec(dllexport) or sumtin', right? /cc @THePhD
 
Hey all
 
Why is the mutex exported?
Exporting mutexes sounds like a terrible idea.
Why not just give it internal linkage in some TU?
 
> I think of it as: "Something must be done. This is something. Therefore, we must do it." (BS)
sleepwell
 
2:35 AM
Github doesn't allow you to distribute binaries anymore?
Interesting
 

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