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3:04 AM
@JerryCoffin Yea, wpf inset far behind it really, just a matter of time before WinRT takes the world of windows completely over.
@Borgleader you can have WPF in c++, with windows 8... well at least a xmal ui anyways.
 
@johnathon We'll see what happens. Personally, I think of Windows 8 as "Microsoft Bob 2.0", but we'll see what happens.
 
@Borgleader only problem is you have to use WinRT , and only on Metro apps.
 
@johnathon Yes but it's C++/CLI from what I read. I want something like it (view first) in pure C++
 
@JerryCoffin ikr.. and i agree
@Borgleader Honestly man, i don't truly see why ms has not came out with something native like that for c++ yet. I mean with windows 7 they came out with a whole new xml reader/writer com api just so the ribbon framework could be implemented. But really what i think your asking for is not so much an xml based backing, but the toolset that wpf developers have for designing UI.
 
@JerryCoffin Didn't GabeN work on Microsoft Bob?
 
3:09 AM
@Borgleader They have both C++/CX (the update to C++/CLI) and, supposedly, support for real C++. I admit I know very little about either though.
 
@Borgleader and with that said, MS is pushing hard on the c++ standards committee to add partial classes to c++, just for that purpose, TOOLING,.
 
@johnathon That too, but the view first model they have is really interesting. You can link your UI elements to the underlying containers in a way that you can entirely change what is in those containers wihout breaking the UI. Its awesome
 
@Borgleader data binding.. yup.
 
I worked with something similar for websites (the Lift framework) and I gotta say I really like this model
 
@Borgleader Technically you can do something similar to a listview in c/c++ ...
 
3:11 AM
@johnathon But not the databinding
It's that part that interests me.
Being able to have a clean UI/Core separation
 
@Borgleader ahem you can always write your own controls .. that do just that...
 
I'm a nub so no I cannot ;)
 
@Borgleader again, i think what you really want is the TOOLING behind it all
 
Someone wants to install GCC 2.95. That's 11 years old.
 
@Borgleader LMAO, well in that case i defiantly think your wanting tooling
 
3:12 AM
@johnathon Tbh if I was as good as the robot I'd have a try at writing that...
 
@Rapptz who... where.. what?!?
 
0
Q: How to Install GCC 2.95 on Ubuntu 12.0.4?

Shazzad HossainI am trying to install GCC 2.95 on Ubuntu 12.0.4. Here is the error decl.c : in function 'start_struct': 4449:27; argument 'code' doesn't match prototype ch-tree.h: 736:13: error: prototype declaration I tried: ./configure make (Failed) What can I do to resolve these errors and in...

 
Why use such an old version?
 
Looks like he's dealing with legacy code.
 
@Rapptz shakes head so legacy that it's broken by the standards point of view
@Rapptz and THAT my friend is why compiler extensions are EVIL.
 
3:14 AM
@Borgleader Offhand, I'm not sure who worked on Bob.
 
As Microsoft’s 271st employee, he worked there for almost 13 years, and, among other things, served as lead developer and producer on the first three versions of Microsoft Windows (he was even involved with the infamous Microsoft Bob).
Oh yes he did
I have no idea how I would even build a UI library. I've never worked on anything big sadly
 
so, the visual studio update .exe was just a web installer. at the network speed i have here i guesstimate it will possibly finish before january. harumph
note to self: 1,135 KB is not 1,134 MB
 
@Borgleader How much native windows UI have you done? Are you on at least windows 7? And how familiar are you with Direct 2D?
 
Practically none.
And yes Windows 7
 
@Borgleader Programming Windows, Charles Petzold ... 5th edition... MUST READ.. consider it your win32 BIBLE. Then pick up a copy of the white paper chris sells put out about WTL, and WTL it's self, free download... Then read up in Direct2d .. most of the graphical objects in Direct 2d have hit testing built in... ie.. for when a user LButtonDown's the mouse .... you can say... fire a button event or message to owning window
 
3:27 AM
@johnathon isn't the 5th edition the C# / .net one?
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf no, thats the 6th
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf 5h is the one updated for win xp
@Cheersandhth.-Alf i have a hard cover copy :)
 
i think with that one he chose the Wrong Path: obsolete even as it was published
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf what, c# one or the 5th one?
 
3:29 AM
@johnathon Not sold on Amazon or Chapters... They only have the Sixth edition T_T
 
the c# one
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf i agree totally, @Borgleader im not going to like, TELL you to download illegal ebooks... But if you cant find say a used copy ..... there are plenty of shady ppl on the net that toss out stuff like that
 
That would be it
 
Chapters has it as an ebook, but I dont own a kobo
 
3:31 AM
@Borgleader cant get it as a PDF?
 
No clue, I'll keep looking
 
Amazon has it though 3rd party sellers, or as an ebook.
 
@Borgleader there ya go, @MichaelPetrotta good job
 
eh, I just googled it, but thanks.
 
Truth be told if you don't own a copy of that and you plan on doing any windows programming, your pretty much walking in a dark cave without a light
@Borgleader also to note, you can easily store a pointer to a class your using for windowing , inside the user portion of the windows data, using SetWindowsLong, and GetWindowsLong
 
3:36 AM
well, there are some beginner's tutorials, including my own
 
@johnathon I think this is somewhat...exaggerated. I guess I still have my copy of the Third Edition around somewhere, but I'm not sure when I looked at it last -- probably at least 5 years ago though. Haven't ever seen any real reason to update since the third edition though.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf yea, msdn has a decent one believe it or not. Though using WTL is 100 times easier.. if you understand how message loops work.... Macros don't debug too easily so when something doesn't work right it's always nice to have some knowledge to figure it out via petzold
@JerryCoffin indeed it is, i think only like one chapter is devoted to windows xp specifc stuff... However there are a few outdated api's out there that are not on 7
 
hm i need to link it up i think because now it was difficult to find, but: learnwinapi.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/…
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf yea, fordger's was a good one too if it's still up
 
@JerryCoffin aol
 
3:39 AM
I'd also note that Jeffrey Richter's and Joseph Newcomer's books on Windows programming are quite good.
 
@JerryCoffin Yea, however if I'm not mistaken very little if any of those books were dedicated to UI
 
No way... I think my Uni's library has it...
it's an online resource too so I think all I have to do is use their proxy o.o
 
@JerryCoffin scratch that, your talking about MFC with Richter and newcomer am i correct?
 
@johnathon You're probably thinking of Rector and Newcomer (AFAIK, Richter and Newcomer never wrote a book together). Richter has books both on kernel development and one that's more application/UI oriented.
 
@JerryCoffin Yea, i've never seen Richter's book on UI, only the one on low level development with the kernel api
@JerryCoffin any idea of the title ?
 
3:47 AM
i think now it's like "C/C++" in the title
the old book was "Advanced Windows" IIRC
 
@johnathon Not sure. As I think about it, I may be thinking of something else by a different author, but I'm not sure of a name (of either the book or the author).
 
@JerryCoffin that one?
 
@johnathon That's still mostly kernel oriented (and pretty out of date at that).
 
@JerryCoffin dunno, i'll look at the index and find out. Got the title from kerr's website
@JerryCoffin yea, for UI work kerr even recommends the Petzold book
 
Come to think of it, all the decent Windows application development books are getting ancient. I guess for most people now, a book on Qt is really the better target.
 
3:52 AM
@JerryCoffin i would agree.. but nokia dropped QT on its buns
 
Netflix is smart
 
@johnathon Digia seems to be doing all right with it, though it's another in the "we'll see what happens" category.
 
Netflix knows me so well: "Star Trek: TNG - Our best guess for you wish: 5 stars"
 
@Crowz what is netflix and why are you linking justin bieber
 
@JerryCoffin You should have read the scathing comments about that decision too LOL .. Yea.. true enough at the moment.... and yea.. The one thing about windows ui in c++ really is that WTL is still updated.. and still IMHO the best choice
 
3:54 AM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Streaming service, like 8$ a month and you can watch their entire catalog (unless you have an ISP bandwidth cap like i do)
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Netflix is movies and stuff. It guessed that I would give the justin bieber movie one star
 
@Borgleader go check out grooveshark
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Isn't that for music?
 
yes, so netflix isn't?
 
Netflix is for movies & tv shows
 
3:55 AM
oh, i would pay to avoid that
 
@johnathon WTL is pretty nice, but would benefit greatly from real support in an IDE.
 
Why? Netflix is awesome
 
i would pay to avoid tv shows, if i could. except old "gunsmoke"
 
@JerryCoffin Yea, there's been attempts.. one very nice one that will work with vs 2010 ... with some fiddling... done by a Scandinavian college student no doubt.
 
re movies, too low bandwidth here
 
3:56 AM
I watch at least 2 films a day... it's actually a problem
used to be a film major until I realized I wanted a job
 
tv shows are a means whereby the american population is kept at idiot level, where no more than 15 percent believe in natural evolution (according to gallup, as of 2012)
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf curious.. but what part of the world are you in?
 
northern norway
 
@johnathon his profile says Norway
 
very rural area
 
3:58 AM
@Cheersandhth.-Alf kind of ironic to claim intellectual superiority to the vast population whilst making huge leaps of unsupported data.
 
@johnathon Therein lies the problem: to work well, it just about needs at least a little cooperation from the IDE vendor.
 
@Crowz sounds idiotic to me he he
actuallu it is
both the claim about me making a claim
and the claim about data
 
popcorn
 
it is as dumb as justin bieber
also the claim about huge leaps
i'm sitting in a sofa, not leaping around
 
oh you
 
4:00 AM
All those "JB sucks" comments are just free publicity
He's rich because of you Alf!
 
@JerryCoffin well... considering WTL was the first project open sourced by MS, I'd say someone ticked someone off with it.... and i kinda got an idea who too LOL... so i doubt they'll ever be vendor support for it, as their embracing WinRT whole heatedly, which just kinda blows. And to think of what the compiler team had to go through to do it too.
 
neeeed a good show to watch. Just finished with House and Bones
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf When we were teenagers we irritated our parents with music they thought was loud and obnoxious. Now the teenagers irritate us with music our parents probably wouldn't have minded at all...
 
@JerryCoffin you're referring to dubstep and rap, i take it. well my mother is not too happy with either ;-)
 
4:02 AM
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Dubstep is not music, it's just noise.
 
my parents do mind my music :(
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf No, I was thinking more of soppy crap like Justin Bieber -- would have fit in pretty well in the '50s.
 
People don't adapt well to music.
 
4:04 AM
@Rapptz I dunno, if it's new, it's exciting
Given it has energy and meaning
 
You're not that old though, as you get older you get fixated on things you enjoy.
 
@Borgleader Are you well on your way with Windows UI yet?
 
@johnathon Dude gimme a minute, if I get this to compiled I'll have a library that kicks Qt's ass ;)
 
@Rapptz With age you (or at least some) form taste, and start to realize that music isn't just about hitting the drums as hard and fast as you can.
 
@Rapptz I am usually listening to a new genre every week haha I get bored if something can be predicted before it happens
And if you listen to the same genre, you develop certain schemas which are then easily reimplemented across all that genre and it just becomes... predictable. Dull.
 
4:07 AM
Yeah exactly, you end up getting fixated on something based on that taste you acquired and don't want to get accustomed to something new. People hate change.
 
The thrill of anything is it being bizarre and unexpected. If you can reference past events, you can project the future. Boring. I want wildly new things
 
@Crowz Sounds to me more like music that's inherently pointless, predictable and dull, and even the people who are temporarily fans, realize its shortcomings very quickly.
 
@JerryCoffin I dunno, you realize the intervals, the chord progressions, the vocal tones and modulations... how they personally tend to compose songs. It always carries over.
 
yea.. goodnight everyone
 
@johnathon G'night.
 
4:12 AM
@johnathon gn hs
 
Xeo
Damn, I overslept the end of the world.
 
You didn't miss much
 
@Xeo Sounds like a name for a new sitcom.
 
Just add a laugh track in case people forget it's funny
(cough)Big Bang Theory
 
@Crowz When's the last time they did a sitcom that was funny enough to survive without a laugh track?
 
4:19 AM
@Crowz TBBT is hilarious...
It's you who has no sense of humor! :P
 
@JerryCoffin Seinfeld was good
 
Xeo
Guuuuys, can you stop talking to ghosts?
 
i'm a ghost ._.
 
@Crowz I guess that removes any doubt about whether you're a tasteless boor.
 
@JerryCoffin Yeah you gotta deal with it!
 
4:22 AM
@Xeo You're a ghost, all white and shit..
 
My new wallpaper :D
 
Xeo
@Borgleader You have a small monitor, huh? :P
 
@Xeo No that's just the "thumbnail" version. I have 2 monitors, one is 24" (1920x1080) the other is 22" (1680x1050)
 
@Borgleader 2012/future_horizon/large.jpg
 
Xeo
Then you're obviously compensating for something. (You can't win this argument.)
 
4:26 AM
I linked this version because a) it gets downsized anyway b) the wallpaper is available in like 10 different resolutions
 
@Borgleader You have huge thumb nails!
 
@Xeo You're right, I also have a Hummer.
I compensate heavily
 
Xeo
Mmm, Hummer. (It's 'lobster' in German.)
 
My wallpaper is lame :(
 
@Crowz Fix that. Now.
 
4:28 AM
My wallpaper is still that Zelda one.
 
Can't find good ones.
 
Xeo
Which one?
 
I gotta admit though, until recently my wallpaper was a korean chick
cuz y'know... >.> im a sad sad programmer
 
Why is it sad?
Is it sad to appreciate women you find attractive?
 
Xeo
For roughly two years, my wallpaper's been that of Lucy from Elfen Lied now. Some artist at the Games Academy made it for me, that was awesome.
 
4:30 AM
I just like my background because the colors match everything
 
@Rapptz It's not sad. I'm a sad programmer ;)
Anyhow, my old wallpaper:
 
hnng :D. I remember this got flagged on here a while back, made me lol.
 
Anyone know of a free for commerical use SQL DB is?
MySQL is GPLv2ed
 
@Rapptz I keep telling people: clothes may be offensive, but don't flag just because the women aren't completely nude.
 
Sorry " A good FFCU SQL DB?"
 
4:38 AM
@JerryCoffin If you want to see offensive clothes watch this: imdb.com/title/tt0113243
 
what a bullshit synopsis.
 
@Borgleader Thanks, but I think I'll pass.
 
That movie is fucking hilarious
It's worth seeing at least once
Final argument: Naked angelina jolie
I rest my case.
 
Is MSSQL Express any good?
 
@Crowz Razer keyboard and mouse. Which mouse though?
 
4:43 AM
Deathadder
Big hands
 
PostgreSQL?
 
@Crowz Ah, I use the Diamondback and Naga Molten Edition
 
@RolandSams Do you notice that the title say "C++", not "SQL"? We sometimes answer C++ questions here (if they're interesting). I can hardly imagine anybody here giving a good answer about what SQL server to get/use.
 
I like my razer naga epic.
 
I quite like razer, this stuff has lasted forever
The mouse is going on 3 years now working great
 
4:45 AM
@JerryCoffin Iwa using ODBC
@JerryCoffin Is there an SQL room?
 
Yes, look it up with the chat filter
 
@RolandSams yes.
 
Ok, whats a good API for a console winsock server to use? ADO/ODBC?
I kinda want a simple one. I just need to basic function
 
Xeo
@StackedCrooked The one were you need to register to actually use any functionality besides the basic plug-n-play?
 
Ah, yeah, that part sucks.
 
4:49 AM
I should start messing around with MongoDB
 
Xeo
And were, if you don't have internet, you're screwed? :)
 
@RolandSams I'd use a library like SOCI.
 
Xeo
(Can you tell I don't like the idea Razer had there?)
 
Sort of.
 
@Xeo C'mon. You know everything needs to be "cloud enabled"! What are you some sort of Luddite who wants things to actually work? What's wrong with you?
 
Xeo
4:52 AM
The dumbest thing about this was their argument on why they did it. "The in-mouse memory was getting too big and expensive", IIRC.
 
In any case it should be optional, not mandatory.
 
Xeo
They should've just kept the memory small and added a friggin micro-SD slot.
 
@Xeo Yes -- and of course the computer it's connected to has no memory at all!
 
This mouse has 12 configurable mouse buttons. It can be convenient to have those automatically backed up online so that if I reinstall my computer I don't have to reconfigure.
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin Well, it's for saving macros and profiles across computers.
@StackedCrooked And that worked fine with the in-mouse memory for the last years.
 
4:54 AM
I haven't tested if it actually stops working without Internet. I only know because of online rage. Haven't experienced any trouble myself yet.
@Xeo I see.
 
@Xeo Sure -- and doing that when/if you want to is fine. Requiring it is a whole different story.
 
Xeo
@JerryCoffin As I said, small in-mouse memory + (micro-)SD slot
And oh yeah, there was also the fun stuff about the registration servers being down / not up to the task on the day the mouse came out.
 
biff has spastic diarrhea
 
@Xeo I have a hard time imagining using enough memory to equal the cost of an SD socket.
 
Razer mice are high-end expensive shit anyways.
Mine was a little over $100.
But I think a good mouse is worth it.
 
4:59 AM
I want a Razer keyboard, but 130$ :(
 
@StackedCrooked Granted. My point, however, is that they're already complaining about the cost of memory -- but unless we're talking a lot more memory than I can imagine, an SD slot is going to quite a bit more still.
 
@JerryCoffin Thanks for the tip. I will use (for the sake of clarity) postgresql
 
@Borgleader Would it kill them to show a picture that was straight on so you could actually see the keys, and not blurred to death and back?
 
lol thats a good question
 
@Rapptz on closer inspection they all look nice
or maybe i'm just getting really old
 
They're pretty.
 
They're all good looking. I agree.
 
@StackedCrooked s/review/unboxing
 
5:20 AM
Hmm I moved most of the VS2012 startup locations from my C driver to my E drive
but it still creates a Visual Studio 2012/Start Pages folder
any idea how to move that one?
 
5:32 AM
is it only me or are the numbers of the repos(followers etc.) on the new bitbucket profile page totally screwed?
 
don't see how
 
Totally!
 
5:52 AM
Well, I'm getting to bed. Later all. If I don't see you before then, have a nice winter solstice (or whatever you care to celebrate this time of year).
 
This year I celebrate DoomDay
;)
 
Xeo
DOOM day?
 
Let's play DOOM.
 
@Borgleader: Isn't it a little bit late for this? Should be the 10th Dec ;)
 
@Xeo 12/21/12 doom day ;)
welll "supposed" doom day
 
5:58 AM
So... um... are we supposed to be alive? :)
 
Are you?
 
Oh. My. God. The canteen is closed today. Where am I going to get a coffee now? It's really the end of the world :/
 
@Zeta Get cocaine instead.
 
@Zeta nearest coffee shop?
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf: Next decent coffee shop, which doesn't sell a product that tastes like it went through the refinement of a human centipede is a little bit too far :/. I'll guess I have no choice and need to buy one at those vending machines.
 
6:15 AM
@Mysticial yes
 
Xeo
@Borgleader 'twas supposed to be a reference to DOOM.
 
In other news, Tcl8.6 has been released.
 
the hell is tcl anyway?
 
@Borgleader It's an old scripting language.
 
I didn't finish reading that..
Ass..
 
Can we use Bitwise inclusive OR operator with boolean operands
?
 
user142019
That wouldn't make sense.
 
user142019
21
Q: Using bitwise operators for Booleans in C++

Jay ConrodIs there any reason not to use the bitwise operators &, |, and ^ for "bool" values in C++? I sometimes run into situations where I want exactly one of two conditions to be true (XOR), so I just throw the ^ operator into a conditional expression. I also sometimes want all parts of a conditio...

 
ok thanks
let me check it and come back if any further issues
 
user142019
Whokay.
 
user142019
6:42 AM
Also hi everybody.
 
7:00 AM
can I counter close votes before the question is closed?
 
@VikasPatidar u can, if u like to live dangerously.
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf actually I had seen it in someone else code.
 
oh i was going to post an answer but discovered i got Yet Another Hat
had to look at it
admire it
put it on
he he
 
@Cheersandhth.-Alf if we can use it, means C++ maps bools in 1, 0?
 
most implementations do
because bools are required to convert to 0 and 1
but, an indeterminate bool can be any value
oh, so the bass solo with Stu Hamm was from the concert in San Fransisco
funny that i haven't listened to this stuff earlier
then there is the issue of operator precedence
which is perhaps the most tricky part
 
7:08 AM
okay, thank you :)
 
also, i just saw that in answer now, forgot about it, that the bitwise operators don't short circuit
so everything always evaluated in full
 
user142019
That apocalypse went quietly.
 
Still a few hours!
 
I don't understand why people are rejecting my edits:

http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/1218253
http://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/1217983

the supplied code compiles but will always give the error
"A device attached to the system is not functioning."
 
user142019
Because you change the actual answer.
 
user142019
7:20 AM
Tell it in a comment instead.
 
I would expect that an infinite stream of T<A<T<A<T<...> would be required.
 
user142019
Why wouldn't it work?
 
user142019
Wait.
 
user142019
HUH?!
 
but the chosen answer has broken code, why can't i edit that?
 
7:22 AM
@Zoidberg'-- It's hard to reason about. My brain can't handle so much recursion.
 
user142019
clang also accepts it.
 
user142019
@StackedCrooked (Hint: repwhore on Stack Overflow.) :^)
 
user142019
This would be one of the questions that gets 50k upvotes.
 
Nah.
Anyway I'm off to work now.
 
user142019
Whokay. Good luck.
 
user142019
7:25 AM
@StackedCrooked Maybe it works because B doesn't use its template parameter. This is rejected.
 
user142019
Oh wait incomplete types.
 
@Zoidberg'-- Frankly, I don't see what is so special about the code. TTA and CRTP. Is there something I'm missing?
 
user142019
@sehe A inherits from T<A<T>>. That looks like infinite recursion.
 
@Zoidberg'-- How so? It's just completely regular CRTP
 
user142019
Okay.
 
7:29 AM
It's not like it inherits from itself?
 
user142019
I have never used CRTP. :P
 
It would be a different matter if T===A
 
@sehe what is ===?
 
@Zoidberg'-- That's a good sign. It is of limited use and should only be used to 'iron' out library API wrinkles, IMO
@bamboon completey equals
 
user142019
@bamboon === is not valid C++ outside of preprocessor directives, string literals, character literals and comments.
 
user142019
7:31 AM
Crap I need to operate on binaries in Erlang. I hope I can pattern match them; converting them to a list of bytes would be terrible in terms of performance.
 
user142019
A linked list of bytes is such a waste of memory. :P
 
And time
 
user142019
Oh thank God there are binary:first/1 and binary:part/2.
 
@sehe ok, and what is the difference to equals?
 
@bamboon none whatsoever. Imagination. Man. This is natural language. Not some specified formal language
 
7:35 AM
@sehe ah ok ;) Wasn't sure about the last part.
 
@bamboon There's one more equal sign.
 
@LucDanton you funnybot
 
awkward====funny
 
syntax error
 
user142019
7:58 AM
Erlang y u no binary:split/2.
 

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