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14:00
Well, loosely quoting, this is what Heracleitos said: everything vibrates
Vibrators vibrate.
> τὰ ὄντα ἰέναι τε πάντα καὶ μένειν οὐδέν
:5331606 they do.
Phones don't touch me, emotionally. Vibrators are the moving part.
This morning I told my wife, "Wife, don't be late getting ready" when I woke up because she's normally the one keeping us from leaving the house on time.
So then we get into an argument where she's adamant that she can be ready on time without waking up earlier, and she proves it to me.. but then I'm like.. why aren't you normally ready on time then?
If she were a robot, I think her head would have exploded then.
@Neil "Wife, don't be late getting ready" - I told mine "Wife, don't get laid being ready"!
Though seeing how she wasn't a robot, she just stood there a moment with her mouth open, then closed it
14:07
@Neil How thoughtful of her
Grr. Epic edit struggle
Just submitted a bug report for MSVC. Any bets on how soon it'll get a WONTFIX? #visualstudio
@jalf how are we supposed to find out unless you link us the report? (I know: it doesn't matter)
Well someone's tweeting :P
@sehe Thoughtful of her that she wasn't a robot? I agree
@Neil To close her mouth :)
@sehe She's quick to rebuttal and slow to apologize. I was happy to have shut her up anyway.
@Neil You shut her up..?
14:19
meh women
@jalf Woa, jackpot, you did not get a CNR or a "won't fix, by design" reply.
Ok, I defeated damn Facebook integration.
Now does anyone have an idea how to debug quits that shouldn't happen.
I mean, literally shouldn't happen. There's no exception being thrown, activity stack is not empty, but there it goes back to home screen in specific cases.
Segfault!
14:26
Segfault would be logged.
Oh you don’t get anything? It just goes back to the homescreen.
Hmm… sounds like PHP.
@jalf nice!
@EtiennedeMartel yet
Caps lock.
Remap caps lock to control.
14:28
@daknøk To Esc, obviously. Also, I DON"T EVER USE CAPS LOCK!
Why on earth did C# replace the Java instanceof with is?
I just hold shift. I'm old school like that
Caps lock is for lazy fucks who think their jobs are annoying people.
user784668
@LuchianGrigore It's shorterererer.
@LuchianGrigore Why not?
14:29
@LuchianGrigore It didn't. C# was never Java before
@LuchianGrigore isa would make more sense than is.
is implies equality.
Real men hold shift.
I like how Python does it with is and ==.
@sehe it was inspired by Java.
@daknøk In English
@LuchianGrigore hahahaha. It was. Maybe
14:29
@LuchianGrigore Less keystrokes. Anyway, you should really be using as.
@sehe there is a reason all those keywords are in English.
@EtiennedeMartel ? at? - you mean as?
And when you create a new language, you might want to think about what's intuitive.
user784668
@daknøk They should be in German.
Why do you think most programming languages have for loops?
user784668
14:30
@LuchianGrigore Brainfuck.
@LuchianGrigore Haskell doesn’t have for loops…
Nor does x86 assembly.
Python only has foreach.
missing the point....
@sehe My brain farted.
@LuchianGrigore I think because they stole it from other languages. And because developers expect a for loop.
For loops are insane and useless.
Foreach, generators and while are sufficient.
14:31
Not stole. But it's intuitive.
@LuchianGrigore Reminds me that @R.MartinhoFernandes said that if he made a language, there wouldn't be a for.
X86 is easy to do loop, set marker, do something, check loopcounter, if not done incr ecx (loopcounter) and goto marker, else continue
@EtiennedeMartel well, it's like two hours old. Give it time...
For is only useful in low-level languages like C.
while is more intuitive than for IMO.
14:32
Recursion ftw.
@LuchianGrigore Really? for(a b;c) { d } was never as intuitive as a while(b) { d; c; } IMO
I'm starting to use Enumerable.Range more and more in C#. I can put that in a LINQ query and use it like a for.
user784668
@StackedCrooked foldr is more intuitive than while.
For loops?
14:33
@sehe it's intuitive in regards to having seen a for loop before.
a loop in a loop is loopception
@TonyTheLion How's work going?
@Fanael Yeah, even babies get foldr.
@ManofOneWay today it's ok, messing with sockets and crap
@EtiennedeMartel Mmm. Why you need that? There is enum.Select((item, index) => /*...*/) for 90% of the use cases there
14:34
f (x:xs) = something x `someoperator` f xs
@sehe Yes, but let's say I'm dealing with a legacy API that has a GetItemCount() method and then a GetItem(int index) method.
@LuchianGrigore Muhahahaha. Then we should have many more broken constructs. Because, you know, it is more intuitive in regards to having seen them before (if that is even english)
while(looping) { while(ception) { /* loopception */ } }
@EtiennedeMartel In that case, obviously, it could be nice. Could be nice to write a yield block too, depending on your taste in literate code.
@TonyTheLion while(looping) { while(ception) { break; /* loop interception */ } }
14:35
@sehe I love that motherfucking from ... in ... select.
@daknøk huh? Why break?
oh lol
@TonyTheLion It's only a real loopception if a loop is iterating over an array of loops ;) [whatever that may mean]
Becuazue break ruelsz.
@EtiennedeMartel I hate it. With a vengeance. Give me .Select with a proper projection lambda/method group (the latter for the WIN)
@NikiC hmmm
14:37
Ik ga even lekker schijten, tot zo!
@daknøk have fun ("of heb je al poep"?)
I will.
@daknøk Epic anachronism
@LuchianGrigore Reminds me, do you know why the C# switch requires break statements despite the fact that fall through is illegal in C#? Because that would be confusing for C++ programmers. I'm not kidding, it's really the reason behind that.
14:41
@EtiennedeMartel lolwot dafuq
I have to find that MSDN article. But that's really the reason they gave.
@EtiennedeMartel that's good... I guess :)
@EtiennedeMartel I actually did use a switch but MSVS, being the awesome IDE that it is, generated it for me :)
So, fuck "intuition". It generally means we get stuck with the same broken constructs because fixing them would move us out of our comfort zone, and we can't have that, can we? We must not strive to improve, because change is scary.
It's not good, it's ridiculously stupid.
14:45
That's if you consider for to be a broken construct
I don't
@EtiennedeMartel And I'm sure that all the other differences between C++ and C# weren't problematic in this respect at all.
Loops are poor man's recursion.
@CatPlusPlus Not all loops are easily converted to recursion.
And not all can be converted to recursion.
What loops can't be?
14:46
@CatPlusPlus Recursion is a poor man's loop :P
@daknøk did you vote yet? And, did you like the 'debat' yesterday?
5
Q: Recursive left-recursion in hand-written recursive ascent parser

DeadMGI've been writing some recursive ascent parsers, and one of the things I've been struggling with is left recursion. It seems obvious to me that right recursion can be expressed recursively, like addExpr : primaryExpr '+' addExpr | primaryExpr; by something along the lines of parseAdd...

while(true) wait(1);
What does it mean if the constructor of a class is protected ?
@TonyTheLion extensible singleton?
14:48
@TonyTheLion Means it's protected by the mafia.
Thinko. Happenz
Bah, tail recursion is equivalent to a loop.
@CatPlusPlus In actual code (not just in theory), recursion is frowned upon.
@CatPlusPlus But what is the tail recursive form of that specific loop?
14:49
@LuchianGrigore I disagree. :)
@LuchianGrigore It is?
@LuchianGrigore Strictly, on a perfect virtual machine, infinite recursion is equivalent
@LuchianGrigore meh oop wankery
@LuchianGrigore Nope. Depends on where. Also: lisp
recursion is a very powerful, very useful tool
14:50
@LuchianGrigore No, it's not.
@sehe lisp doesn't count as a language
Wow, that's a lot of hate.
Stop using subpar languages with shitty recursion support.
it might not be the next coming of Jesus, but it's certainly not something I'd ban
@CatPlusPlus I take it you don't work, right?
14:50
even simple data structures like binary trees are much better with recursion
Recursion is hard to avoid if you're doing anything mathematical.
It would be awesome if we'd have the choice of language, but most of us don't.
(although, even then, I'd still go with C++)
Yes, industry is shit, I am well aware of that.
regardless, I doubt you'll see many programs that have more recursion in them than loops.
@LuchianGrigore There's a big difference between that and frowning upon recursion.
14:52
I'm not dissing recursion, I enjoyed my Standard-ML time, but most of the time loops are better.
hey this is stackoverflow, recursion should be accepted here.
@CatPlusPlus I haven't heard you say a single positive thing today. Are you in a bad mood?
@DeadMG don't generalize. I'm not going to iterate through a vector using recursion, whatever you guys say. :)) And, most often than not, that's what you actually do in the industry, you don't get to write a really cool computation formula every day and put your recursion skills to the test.
Reality.
@TonyTheLion Has Cat++ ever said anything positive? :-)
user784668
14:54
All loops are recursion.
@Chimera on occasion
catception
@sehe I cannot vote.
@daknøk Oh. That suxors. And the other part of the Q?
All your recursions are belong to us!
@Mysticial No. It is just data. You are quite right
14:55
I prefer Haskell, and Haskell has no loops.
@Chimera All your recursions are your recursions are your recursions are your recursions are your recursions are your recursions are your recursions are your recursions are your recursions...
@sehe The only funny parts of the debat were when Wilders talked.
@TonyTheLion I'm working on a crappy project in Java. Take a guess.
@sehe :-)
Die, Java, die.
14:56
Can’t you use another language that runs on the JVM?
Clojure :P
@daknøk He's quite a debater. I thought he solicited quite some replies that worked equally well though.
Java is better than C though right?
@CatPlusPlus Oracle is working on that.
Yes, I'll just rewrite 32k SLOC of code to a shitty Lisp dialect, that'll make it better.
user784668
@Chimera Ask on SO.
14:57
@sehe They asked on one highschool what the pupils would vote for. #3 was PVV.
@Fanael What?
@daknøk I think it's safe to conclude that Hero Brinkman made an all round fool of himself. Sadly, Roemer has managed to achieve almost the same level of pityfulness in a few weeks :)
@daknøk Meh.
I'm going to be writing the next version from scratch anyway. No Lisps though.
I'd rather write that Haskell to Java compiler.
@sehe no that’s not meh. That’s good. :)
@Fanael Who are you?
14:58
@Chimera @Fanael.
@Chimera He's standing behind you.
@daknøk G.W.: "Rutte heeft nu al bijna vaker gelogen dan de keren dat Samsom is gearresteerd". Brilliant troll.
I know. :P
Sadly, trolls don't do well actually managing a country. I love his style. He is really good. Now, only if he had a program that worked :)
Is @Fanael always such a dick?
15:00
And that troll of a Thieme wants me to pay more for unhealthy food. She’s crazy. Bacon is healthy for me.
@Chimera Why the rhetorical questions?
Healthiness of food differs per person.
user784668
@Chimera Yes.
@daknøk No contradiction then. But Thieme didn't impress me anywhere. The only level of 'impress' she reached, was that I was surprised she didn't sound a lot more dumb when she spoke.
@Chimera Better than C for what?
15:01
For flaming, obviously
@JerryCoffin It was a joke....
Java is worse than C in every way.
For fuck sake.
Chat is messy today.
At least C doesn’t enforce OOP.
15:02
C doesn't really enforce anything.
It enforces oops because it's so easy to shoot yourself in the foot.
OOPS! I used OOP!
OOP is only good for a very small set of problems.
Unfortunately everyone uses it for everything.
You are preaching to the choir.
@Chimera But it's not really a joke -- it is better than C for some things. Filling the hard drive, for example. Besides, without Java how would you learn about the proper use of an AbstractProxyStrategyFactorySingletonProxy?
@StackedCrooked We need to shout more randomness
15:03
The C++ standard library uses classes in a sane way.
@daknøk You use bacon for everything. Case closed.
(Except for the I/O streams part, but yeah.)
@daknøk I was gonna say precisely that
@JerryCoffin lol
@sehe not precisely.
You were going to say IOStreams, IOstreams, iostreams or streams, at least.
15:04
@daknøk Well, eerily close. Sadly, it's no longer in my clipboard.
@daknøk I was going to say 'interfaces for iostreams'
@daknøk I/O Streams aren't bad. They're just drawn that way.
I am really in the mood to write an iOS app but I can’t come up with any ideas.
A Postduif client would be nice, but I don’t have the spec complete yet, not even the server.
@daknøk "in the mood to write an iOS app"? A good psychiatrist can prescribe you something to cure that.
It doesn’t need to be cured.
I like iOS development.
user784668
@daknøk lol
15:10
brb filling my stomach with food.
@daknøk Oh no we're too late -- he's lost all contact with reality!
> If you took all the gas you burned on a trip and stretched it out into a thin tube along your route, 0.1 square millimeters would be the cross-sectional area of that tube.
This is what gas mileage is?
next time someone posts a vexing parse question, I'll answer with this
user image
3
user784668
fail
15:16
@MohamedAhmedNabil yes. (sorry, I went home for the day)
@Chimera Is there anything non-fake left :_) (j/k)
@sehe Nothing. Nothing at all. Including my sentiment in writing this!
Likes:php jquery mysql mssql ajax Dislikes:.net vb c++
^SO Careers profile
what the heck, there's people editing my answer, but I can't see what they're doing. 11 hours ago someone removed a newline, with the description "Change language to none to turn of highlight". Right after, someone else made no change I can find, labeled "added 9 characters in body", and then immediately rolled it back. stackoverflow.com/posts/9316491/revisions
lolz all those projects don’t even exist anymore.
15:21
@Chimera That's (as @DeadMG would say) BAUS
@Drise BAUS?
@Chimera Boss.
bau5
Can I interrupt a Thread when Its calling some method inside ?
15:24
user image
6
@Neil Only if you don't mind getting wet
@NeelBasu Generally no, unless what's it's called is an asynchronous function that supports cancellation.
@Neil Yep. That's a good one. (Reminiscing a Fargo line.)
Freaking school started
@JerryCoffin Its calling a sync method. which takes more than timeout seconds to return
15:27
@Drise ha, got it.
@Neil DROWN IT
@JerryCoffin I am trying to terminate. which is not working either (infinitely waiting and not returning control)
At stealth level 87, not only can you hide well, you can be a cat
@NeelBasu Trying to terminate the thread or the process? Terminating the process is pretty easy ('cause you can generally ignore most consequences). If you just want to terminate the thread, termination in the middle of a synchronous call is pretty much impossible.
15:30
Note also
@Neil I would turn on the water very low (so as not to startle the cat) and then watch to see what happens.
@MooingDuck I've tested that before, actually, having two cats and a bidet
The cat notices something but doesn't mind it much then goes wide-eyed and leaps out of the bidet as fast as possible
Of course I did it in the name of science...
@JerryCoffin right I needed an assertion
@Neil I've heard of a bidet
@JerryCoffin But why would the terminate() call hold control infinitely ?
15:36
hola!
@Drise ಠ_ಠ
hi dave
Today is really a day to eat bacon pizza with curry.
@NeelBasu Next to impossible to be sure without knowing a lot about the environment and such. One possibility would be a deadlock of some sort, but without knowing what might be happening in the name of thread safety, that's only a wild guess.
@LuchianGrigore Because they suck. For loops are not intuitive unless you're in the right mindset already.
@daknøk No, it doesn't. If anything it implies identity. And it implies "is a" if the second argument is a type, which it is.
@EtiennedeMartel Hehe.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I missed the original question, but my answer would have been: "because for loops are a lot better than (Fortran) do loops".
Hehe.
I wouldn't disagree.
15:47
Sure, next you're gonna say raw pointers suck.
raw pointers suck
@LuchianGrigore But they do.
What's next? Let me guess? PHP also sucks, right?
Who are you, Captain Obvious?
user784668
@LuchianGrigore Everything sucks.
15:49
@TonyTheLion Okay, next you're going to say: "Jerry Coffin is a God, and I will give him all my money."
@JerryCoffin He doesn't have any money.
@JerryCoffin euh, no.
@EtiennedeMartel didn't know you were my accountant?
@TonyTheLion Yeah, me neither.
15:50
@EtiennedeMartel I'll settle for small amounts -- as long as lots of people do it. I figure one Euro each from, say, 100 million people, should be about right.
@JerryCoffin Ah, the "Roman Catholic Church" approach to "getting ridiculously rich".
@EtiennedeMartel Yeah, pretty much. When people ask me to do things I don't want, I routinely tell them "my religion doesn't allow that." It seems to confuse them that when I say "my religion", I mean it literally -- a religion I own, in which people worship me. Unfortunately, I'm not very charismatic, so nobody's giving me their money. Maybe I should work on a catchy name for it...
2
@sehe It seems that a lot of people do vote PVV. Something like all of my friends on Facebook.
I'm down to 20 friends on Facebook. I'm so proud of myself.
15:56
I have 46.
I have 400+
@JerryCoffin Indeed, wasps are not known for their charisma.
@JerryCoffin Coffinism?
Scratch that, that sucks.
@EtiennedeMartel wasps are nasty buggers
but this is a smart wasp, which is rare :P
@EtiennedeMartel I should add that at least at one time, that wasn't the Roman Catholic approach at all. At one time, their approach was: "persuade countries to collect money on our behalf as taxes, and give it to us." In many (e.g., Austria-Hungry) there was even "bureau of special taxes" (or something similar) that was basically "the bureau of discrimination against Jews."
15:58
@Drise 123
@MooingDuck are you learning to count? :P
@Drise Wait, I thought the point of Facebook was to have more friends. If you have less friends that means you're losing, right?
@EtiennedeMartel Hmm...maybe I should take that as a sign, and go for a more Wasp-like approach: "Give me everything I want or I'll hurt you!"
@MooingDuck The problem is that neither me or my ex has defriended eachother, so out of 20 friends, she pops up a lot, which isn't helpful.
@R.MartinhoFernandes I think he missed that point quite blatantly.

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