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12:00 AM
night
 
zzzzzzzzzzzz
 
are there any addons, plugins or extentions for IDEs (more specifically VC++ 2010)
 
12:30 AM
@MohamedAhmedNabil Yes -- quite a few of them, such as Visual Assist-X. Don't program without it.
 
I don't think I've ever used any VS plugins. I've been pretty satisfied with it as it is.
The only thing that needs to be fixed is intellisense for multi-module projects.
 
@JerryCoffin anyhting else?
 
@Mysticial Actually, it's between two partitions of the same hard drive.
Shouldn't be too long.
It's not a SSD though.
 
Probably not more than few minutes?
Most HDs are 100 MB/s. Internal copy would be half that. So 20 sec/GB.
Unless it's a mess of really small files?
 
@JerryCoffin Something free?
 
12:33 AM
@MohamedAhmedNabil Quite a few, as I said. Google can turn up quite a few. Here's one page you might want to look at: msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc300778.aspx
 
@JerryCoffin thx
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil Yes, but if you try out VA-X, you'll quickly find that it's well worth the price, and makes nearly all the others look pretty weak by comparison, at least for doing C++. Quite a few people doing C# really think highly of ReSharper.
 
@Mysticial coworker just put Visual Assist on my machine, and it's nice just for when I click a symbol, all other instances of that symbol highlight, and also spellchecking.
 
@Mysticial It's exactly that, I'm afraid.
 
@EtiennedeMartel you know whats' way slower than IE? Firefox.
 
12:40 AM
@MooingDuck Yep.
 
Yeah, I'm getting pretty close to calling it quits with FF. If they don't fix their garbage collection problem within the next two versions, I'm switching to Chrome.
 
I've been using Chrome exclusively since it came out on OS X, back in 2009.
Sometimes I have to get FF out for various reasons, and boy, I'm always surprised at how often that motherfucker freezes or lags.
 
Apparently their garbage collector is complete shit once the heap gets fragmented. And that's exactly what happens after I leave FF open for a few days, or if I leave my AF on for a few hours. The memory usage shoots up and every single refresh/page-load/scrolling-action/tab-change leads to a 1-2 second hang with 100% CPU as the garbage collector runs.
 
chrome is da suck!!!
 
me too. It behaves poorly when the system is stressed though, and the flash plugin still makes tabs die.
 
12:44 AM
@DavePowell No.
 
if you have extensions they will rape you
 
apparently from what i have read that each tab open up new instance of everything
 
@DavePowell no, extensions are an exception to that rule.
 
@DavePowell Well, they launch a new process.
 
12:50 AM
Each tab in Chrome runs as a separate process that is true which makes Chrome more robust (one page can't bring the browser down) but it can also eat up more RAM.
 
@DavePowell Does that mean that having 50 tabs open will mean that it'll take half an hour to scroll through TM to find something?
 
@Mysticial Roughly.
I have to scroll two pages of chrome.exes on my TM.
 
damn
 
yes. its just crazy.
 
Why?
I don't see how the number of chrome.exes on TM hurts anything.
 
12:54 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes Having to scroll through the existing 100+ processes is already kind of a pain.
 
look at the ram consumed. it all depends if you are on a kick as machine with loads of ram you may not even notice this...however say you on window xp and are limited on RAM you are done.
 
especially when half of them is svchost.exe
 
@Mysticial Why would you scroll?
@Mysticial If you're looking for a particular svchost instance, use the Services tab, right click > Go To Process.
@DavePowell Have you seen how much RAM FF uses?
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm actually looking for a particular program. Unless the program starts with an A or a Z, I eventually wanders off the current scroll position.
 
@DavePowell The main browser process is currently using about 500 megs. Each of the tab slaves is using an average of 10 megs. RAM per tab-process is not a problem.
@Mysticial In that case, I sort by name or just type the name out. TM finds it for you.
 
12:58 AM
@R.MartinhoFernandes I'm not bothered by the memory usage. It's the CPU consumption that kills it. I don't care how much CPU it uses (since I have plenty of it), but it hangs itself when it goes 100% CPU.
 
@Mysticial Not exactly.
The main problem is Flash. If it crashes, it crashes on all tabs, since it's hosted in a sandbox that's shared between all processes.
 
@EtiennedeMartel It goes to 100% CPU from the garbage collector. And when the GC is running, FF stalls.
It repros even with flash disabled.
 
@Mysticial Oh, right, FF. I thought you were talking about Chrome.
 
ah
 
hello
 
1:02 AM
hiya
 
hi
 
BTw guys had a quick question for you guys. i have a SO question that someone answered. he was able to determine the answer based on the error message. think you guys can take a gander? it was something real easy from what he could tell...
about the difference between /MD and /MT apparently.
 
@DavePowell well... what do the docs say?
 
You could link the question I guess
 
0
Q: LNK 2005 linker issues with msvcrt.lib(MSVCR90.dll)

Dave PowellI am sharing a static lib with a client. it is using vs2008 sp 1. i am using a third party lib which i built with the mfc with shared dll and /MD option release version I then built my own static lib which includes this third party lib with MFC with shared dll option and /MD release version. ...

 
1:07 AM
Did.. you try the suggested solution? It's too long for me to read though, sorry.
 
i can't its the client that will have to try it
everything works on my side
i just wanted to know how he was able to come to that determination when the error messsage
was incomplete or at the the on they shared did not elude to a mismatch
so like the question i had was this...
well from what i read /mt uses LIBCMT.lib whereas /md uses MSVCRT.lib. However, since the message they provided i guess was not complete as in i did not see any reference to LIBCMT.lib i could not make the connection. just explaining my thought process. probably is messed up. but i guess you are saying if they are having issues with msvcrt.lib(MSVCR90.dll) then it means they are using /MT?
the message they provided was just this....
 
Hans Passant is also one of the highest-rep users on the whole site. He has a lot of experience and probably knows his shit.
 
Yeah.. 282k rep
 
i am certain i just wanted to know how the heck he was able to tell the answer from the error message when it was not complete you know like in SO i found error messages which are link 2005 errors but are kind of lke
or 238 error LNK2005: ___iob_func already defined in MSVCRT.lib(MSVCR100.dll) C:\dcmtk-3.5.4-src\CMakeBinaries\dcmpstat\apps\LIBCMT.lib(_file.obj) dcmp2pgm
u see how it shows you why there is a mismatch?
i can look at this and easily tell there is a issue between /mt and /md
 
1:11 AM
Elementary deduction.
 
but from my error message the client cut it off i guess and so it got me thinking if he simply was like yea its a typical issue.
i figured that
 
Did you read his comment? It's very unambiguous:
Psychic powers. The error message helps a bit too. — Hans Passant 47 mins ago
 
yea i know he raped me but meh
 
@DavePowell basically, when I see "already defined" and "MSVC" or "CRT", that means you linked against two different versions of the runtime. Almost always.
 
It's that "gut feeling" you often get when you've done something for years.
 
1:12 AM
Not only that but in his profile he says he used to be an active contributor to MSDN forums, so he's really used to this sort of thing
 
man i hope to get like that one day. for now its all if i dont see the error message fully i am like a moron. man so glad for SO.
here
 
experience helps
 
hmm, I took the bus here today for the first time, and it dawns on me that I have no idea how to get home.
 
no smart phone with GPS to help you?
 
@Mysticial luckily I haz
 
1:15 AM
brb, need a quick TF2 fix after a long day...
 
hmm..they have bus routes no? if you know ur addy you could fig out which bus stop get back to?
 
yeah, I can totally look it up, I was just surprised to realize that "how to go home" is something I'll have to look up.
 
if i declare a function like this. void docrap(int &a); what the hell should i send to it?
 
A reference to an integer?
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil a reference to an int obviously
 
1:17 AM
Any integer lvalue will do.
 
@MooingDuck what the defrene between int* a and int &a
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil everything
 
@MooingDuck Just what should i send here and what should i send here
 
one is an object that points at another object. But an int reference is the int.
int myint;
docrap(myint);
 
yo guys gonna bug out from work. ttyl have fun be safe and Mooing hope you get home safe! =P
 
1:22 AM
okay
hi
can anyone help me with the lGPL?
say I make a program with SDL, do I have to release all my soucre code?
 
You mean the LGPL?
 
@MooingDuck In this one void docrap(int &a) im not declaring a pointer but a reference. I never used them before. If i do this i can just send the int itself right?
 
The LGPL requires you to release your source code only if you statically link to the source or modify the source.
Typically, if you only use the SDL, no problem.
 
yay
 
(Although SDL sucks, but that's another problem)
 
1:24 AM
because I use my personal engine for a lot of games
but don't wanna give that away
so as long as I don't modify the SDL libraries, i'm fine?
 
What version of SDL are you using?
 
Exactly.
@Rapptz Whatever version he uses, it's still going to suck.
 
@EtiennedeMartel SDL 2 uses a different license.
 
1.2
 
1:25 AM
Never mind then.
 
k
and i like SDL, simple easy, for fun
not a pro here
thanks gus
 
Yeah, I recall that good old SFML vs SDL benchmark where SFML was like 9000% faster.
 
and 9000% simpler
God I hate SDL
 
But eh, that's to be expected, SFML uses OpenGL while SDL is on GDI+.
Hardware vs software, it's not exactly a fair fight.
 
When I use SFML windows now I get the "Not responding" error and it closes :(
I haven't been able to fix it so I kinda gave up on the whole thing
 
1:29 AM
@EtiennedeMartel I've read that "it seems to be the case that software rasterization is just as fast, for unintuitive reasons."
But the place where I read it had a broken link to the source :(
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Maybe, but I'm not certain that GDI+ is faster than OpenGL, even if OpenGL uses a software renderer.
 
You can use OpenGL with SDL though
 
You can host an OpenGL context in a SDL window, yes. But not use OpenGL to render your 2D stuff.
At least, not when I checked it out 4 years ago.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I found the claim here: blog.mecheye.net/2012/06/the-linux-graphics-stack (grepping for the quoted sentence should get you there)
 
1:34 AM
It also appears that GDI is faster than GDI+ somehow :S
 
@Rapptz What?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Overexaggerated image if ISPs get more power in the US. The supposed result if someone was against Net Neutrality.
 
1:51 AM
1
Q: How to access value in array from a pointer that is a member of a struct in C

ammianusI've searched stackoverflow and seen every combination of the words in my question, but not the question I have. I have an array of ints, it happens to be a 2d array. const int themap[something][something] = { {0, ... I have a struct that I want to have a pointer to this array in my program ...

anybody else see something really odd about the code posted there?
 
No.
(Other than the fact that it makes me want to puke, but it's tagged so I guess there's no way to get rid of the two stars).
Oh, wait.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes: well that
 
No, I really don't see anything particularly odd.
 
the mystruct = (int**) themap;, where mystruct is a struct { int** mymap; };
 
Ah.
I guess it's just a transcription error.
 
2:01 AM
but a really big one at that
speaking of which, I saw some chatter from I think from @sbi about reviving LOUNGE(C);. That hasn't actually happened eh.
(yet)
 
3:02 AM
@netcoder Fundamental problem: you need to find at least a few people who use C (and aren't ashamed to admit it).
 
@JerryCoffin: so I guess I should be ashamed right now...? :P
I'd love to see embedded systems or POS systems with support for libc++, but unfortunately that happens rarely
 
@netcoder No, not particularly. I didn't intend to say anybody should feel ashamed, only that I suspect some do.
 
Ah. I see.
 
Most people I've seen that like to use C flaunt it.
 
@Rapptz: that I'd say I can agree with
 
3:23 AM
Well, there's certainly a point at which many people decide that the lower level the language, the better. Those who haven't learned assembly language typically settle for C as the lowest level to which they've ever been exposed. Most need to recover from that affliction before they can carry on an intelligent conversation though.
 
3:37 AM
@Rapptz I think there's only two people in this room that use C for a significant portion of their programming?
Me and...
 
@Mysticial I don't consider you guys "most people I've seen that use C".
 
It's a niche language.
I'm doing a networking project right now. We have a choice between C, C++, or Java. I'm going with Java.
 
I recall.
 
The Java socket interface is a hella lot cleaner than the C one.
I dunno if C++ has its own socket interface or if it just inherits the C one.
 
@Mysticial: in general, networking is definitely less convoluted in Java, you have a point there
as for C++, it does "inherit" the C interface which is platform specific anyway
 
3:43 AM
@Mysticial There's Boost.Asio, but nothing in the standard.
@Mysticial IME, the asynchronous API (java.nio) is just a thin layer over the corresponding POSIX constructs (and you often see POSIX error codes showing up in exception messages)
 
I'm using DatagramSocket. Whatever the hell that means. But it seems to work so far.
 
C doesn't have a socket interface.
Berkeley sockets are generally used with C on Unix... but it's a separate library.
 
@Mysticial Datagram most likely refers to UDP
 
UDP is good enough for our class project since it's within the same local LAN network.
 
@Rapptz I use and love C, no reason to be ashamed.
 
3:48 AM
@Chimera Right, you're the other person.
I use C. But I don't love it.
 
Jerry uses C too.
 
@Chimera What you just said is probably what he meant by "flaunting"
 
Flaunting as in.. look at those horrible blog posts. Why I should have used C instead of C++ and the like.
 
Meh, your language of choice is just a tool to get something done, nothing really to flaunt.
Sometimes you have the luxury of choosing your tool, sometimes not.
 
why is libc++ not standard in airplane controllers? that I'll never know
 
3:51 AM
@Mysticial It's a blocking UDP socket.
 
Can i use seekg and seekp with one filestream object?
 
You should
 
Don't think so. :-)
 
@Rapptz Since i can use seekp and seekg with fstream. Can i use seekg() then .write() ?
 
I don't see why not? I don't use ios::binary though.
 
3:56 AM
@Rapptz seekg() sets the get pointer seekp() sets the put pointer. So its strange how i can get stuff with the put one and vice versa
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Can be blocking or non-blocking .. you can specify a timeout value.
 
That's still blocking.
Non-blocking means that read(...) returns immediately, regardless if data is available or not.
 
Is There something wrong with this?
void resetfile(fstream *pobj){

	(*pobj).open("defaultfile.dat",ios::binary|ios::app|ios::in);

}
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Sun calls the ability to set a timeout, "non-blocking".
 
@Chimera Well...
 
4:00 AM
@MohamedAhmedNabil Why are you using pointers? Use a reference.
 
Actually, DatagramSocket.receive doesn't have an overload with a timeout.
 
@Rapptz I didnt learn them yet. I only learned pointers
 
setSoTimeout() method is used to set a timeout - thus creating a socket that may at least not block indefinitely.
 
void resetfile(fstream& pobj){

	pobj.open("defaultfile.dat",ios::binary|ios::app|ios::in);

}
 
4:03 AM
@Chimera Oh. But that's still blocking. DatagramChannel.read immediately returns 0 (i.e. no bytes were read) if there's no data to be read (if the channel is in nonblocking more). That's nonblocking.
 
@ScottW C stands (unofficially) for Cambridge or (officially) for Combined (at least assuming you're talking about the C in CPL and/or BCPL).
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Agreed, but the point is that it is not exactly blocking or non-blocking, it's something of a hybrid.
 
@JerryCoffin I think he meant C as in the programming language. He was probably being facetious.
 
@Rapptz Sorry, I'm having trouble coming up with a reply that isn't a bit rude, so I guess I'll just let it be.
 
@Rapptz: yes, and C is based on B which is based on BCPL
 
4:05 AM
I didn't know that. Neat :) I appreciate the enlightenment.
 
@netcoder And, for what little it's worth, BCPL is based on CPL.
 
@JerryCoffin If you ever want to be rude or something to me, go ahead, truth be told I don't mind either way.
 
@Rapptz I heard that pointers are alot stronger than refrences
 
@Rapptz I don't particularly want to be rude, but sometimes it slips out, and others I think I'm being helpful, but apparently come across as aggressive and unfriendly anyway.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil: it's not about strength, it's about if you need them or not
in that case, you don't
 
4:09 AM
@netcoder when should i use pointers and when should i use refrences
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil What would "stronger" mean in a case like this? Pointers can do things references can't -- which is most of why you prefer references when possible.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil short answer, use pointers when you need pointers; use references when you need references ;-)
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil References when you can. Pointers when you have no other choice (which I'm pretty sure I just said last night).
 
@JerryCoffin I didnt ask about that last night
 
@netcoder No. Use pointers when you absolutely have to, use references otherwise.
 
4:11 AM
Whats the difference between pointer and refrences?
 
@EtiennedeMartel: "Use pointers when you absolutely have to" == "use pointers when you need pointers", in my book anyway :P
 
@netcoder No, the key difference is that you rarely need them, and that you should use references as much as possible.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil A reference has to be initialized to refer to an object and never refers to any other. Pointers can be modified to point to different objects at different times (or to nothing at all).
@EtiennedeMartel ...at least when you need indirection (which I'm sure you realize, but may not be apparent to everybody else).
 
@JerryCoffin Ah, yes.
 
@EtiennedeMartel I guess it's a difference in semantics in the end, the point being that you need pointers when you have absolutely no other choice
which still makes the "use pointers when you need pointers" statement true to me
 
4:14 AM
@netcoder Yes, but I realize my reply was mostly because of the second part of your message ("use references when you need references"), which seems to mean "use either, it doesn't matter".
 
Well, "use X when you need X" is a rule of thumb that works for most Xs.
 
@netcoder Bottom line: pointers can usually be avoided. When you can't avoid them...well, you're probably wrong, and you really can, but using the right smart pointer class.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes It's also incredibly useless.
 
@EtiennedeMartel: @JerryCoffin: that I most definitely agree with
 
@EtiennedeMartel Yep.
 
4:15 AM
I just didn't find the appropriate words for it, it seems :P
 
@EtiennedeMartel Tautologies usually are.
 
Too big to onebox xkcd.com/1107
Hehe.
Ooops.
 
@JerryCoffin so the real benifit in refrences is that i dont need to use * each time?
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil not really no
 
@netcoder Then what is it?
 
4:18 AM
@MohamedAhmedNabil The primary benefit (at least IMO) is that you don't need to check that they're non-null before use.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes There should be a third column for Canada, with "Hockey" everywhere.
 
You need to use & to pass by reference.
 
@Rapptz: s/pass by/accept a/
 
@JerryCoffin There must be something more than that
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil Real benefit is that they're not pointers. And pointers are a pain to use, for a variety of reasons.
 
4:19 AM
@EtiennedeMartel and the reasons are?
 
@netcoder Huh? Pass by value, pass by pointer, pass by reference is how I always learned it.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil Yes, that's why I said "primary", not "sole".
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil Nullability, and extra syntax IMO.
 
55
Q: Pointer vs. Reference

Jack RezaWhat would be better practice when giving a function the original variable to work with: unsigned long x = 4; void func1(unsigned long& val) { val = 5; } func(x); or: void func2(unsigned long* val) { *val = 5; } func2(&x); IOW: Is there any reason to pick one over another?

 
@MohamedAhmedNabil The syntax, for one. And the fact that you have to check if it's null or not. And that they don't play well with operator overloading. And if you don't use smart pointers, then there's the uncomfortable issue of wondering when to delete the damn thing.
 
4:21 AM
@EtiennedeMartel ...when or if...
 
@Rapptz I mean that when you "pass" something is usually when you invoke, while "accepting" something is when you define it, for me anyway
 
@netcoder Oh, you pedantic you.
 
So... we're now debugging a memory leak in Java code. So much for garbage collection.
 
Pass by reference it is.
 
@Rapptz I just mean that if you tell someone who has no clue about what references are, you tell them to "pass by reference with &", they'll just do "somefunc(&someref)" and be all confused :P
 
4:24 AM
@netcoder Erm, no they won't.
 
That's address of. Which doesn't make sense in that context either..
 
Because they don't do somefunc(*someptr) when passing a pointer.
 
point taken then, pass by reference it is (although I do know some people who'd be confused, but that's a different story)
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Debugging memory leaks in Java always reminds me of the part from HHGTTG (well, one of the later books, really) where he's talking about what an absolute nightmare it is to fix anything that's designed assuming it will never have a problem.
 
Yeah. (There are a few letters missing form the acronym though)
 
4:26 AM
Ha, whenever I tell someone about how memory leaks happen in .NET, I generally get yelled at or something. Until I tell them about event handlers. And their annoying tendency to root stuff.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes Where? :-)
 
@ScottW Try to tell that to somebody who hasn't written one!
 
I'm still trying to figure out if I'm outrunning the collector, or rooting too much.
 
@ScottW We'll hope not (even if you are willing to).
 
4:32 AM
Can i overwrite with seekp() when using the flag ios::app?
 
@ScottW with a 2-letter acronym like GC, I'd doubt anyone would
 
Gamecube
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil No -- with ios::app, any write takes place to the end of the file, as if it is implicitly preceded by a seekp to the end of the file. If you want to start at the end of the file, but be able to seek to other parts and write there, you want ios::ate instead.
 
I liked it too. I'm biased towards Nintendo though.
 
@ScottW "Gratuitous Cex"
 
4:36 AM
@JerryCoffin does this remove the original contents of the file?
 
I need to find a way to transfer all my pokemon saves from my DS carts to an emulator on PC.
The carts won't last forever, but the emulators will.
 
@ScottW G.C.
 
@ScottW so you're telling me you have 198 facebook friends? prove it
 
@Mysticial I've never had a cart go bad on me.
 
@MohamedAhmedNabil It doesn't seem like it would make much sense if it did.
 
4:38 AM
fair enough
 
@Rapptz well... it takes more than a few years for the flash to deteriorate to failure. But DS's won't last.
My pokemon Crystal cart is the only one from the 2nd gen that still works. (and that was tested almost a year ago)
 
Alright, I'm gonna get some sleep. @Mysticial, you hold the fort. (And @R.MartinhoFernandes too, I guess, what the hell man, do you ever sleep?)
 
I have a 3DS now. I liked my DS Lite though.
@Mysticial My Pokemon Blue worked but has broken save, Pokemon Yellow is just fine though.
 
@EtiennedeMartel G'night. Can a robot sleep?
 
@Rapptz Surprisingly, the 1st gen carts are extremely reliable.
 
4:39 AM
@JerryCoffin My computer can sleep.
 
It's the 2nd gen carts that suck.
I dunno about 3rd gen.
 
@Mysticial 3rd gen was GBA?
 
@EtiennedeMartel Is it a robot?
 
Ruby/Sapphire right
 
@ScottW I do have an action replay with a USB connection. But I haven't had the time to see if I can actually interface it into a reliable emulator.
 
4:40 AM
@JerryCoffin Dunno. It's an Apple product, so probably.
 
@Rapptz Yeah, Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald, Fire Red, and Leaf Green.
 
@Mysticial Yeah those games are perfectly fine.
I forgot what I did with my Crystal..
 
They're all flash based. I doubt they'll last 10 years.
 
@EtiennedeMartel No, that would not be a Robot. Robot made cameras -- some of the first with motor drives (wind-up spring driven). Used on some German airplanes during WWII.
 
Once you get it into a computer, then it's all good.
 
4:42 AM
I think I let a friend borrow it and never got it back.. :(
 
My friend somehow dropped the profile we took to hunt that leak. :S
 
That game is almost 12 years old now.
 
Crystal was pretty neat. The only thing I didn't like about it was that they took out the time-change hack and they force you to catch all the dogs before you can fight ho-oh.
 
@Mysticial Flash has a pretty long shelf-life. Dies primarily by writing to it. (Though SLC has longer life expectancy than MLC).
 
Wrong. Flash dies by... pretty much anything actually. And it is constantly nagging for updates.
 
4:44 AM
Burnable CDs also have a pretty short life. I'm glad I imaged all of my games into HD.
 
@R.MartinhoFernandes I wish you'd included just a tiny bit more context so I could star that, but on it's own it's just a statement of the obvious.
 
VHS lasts surprisingly long.
 
A lot of those games are tricky to image too, since you have to do it well enough to get past their copy-protection.
 
@Rapptz Yeah, but the quality is shit.
 
Not too bad.
 
4:45 AM
no, it's shit...
I need 1080p now. No exception.
Yes 1080p anime...
 
@Rapptz If by "not too bad" you mean "I can vaguely make out the shapes", then sure.
 
:)
 
@Insilico That's why they last so long -- it's next to impossible to notice how badly they've deteriorated.
 
Anything that's digitalized has a funny deterioration curve.
Depending on the strength of the error-correction, you can get these "cliffs".
 
In telecommunications, the (digital) cliff effect or brickwall effect describes the sudden loss of digital reception. Unlike analog signals, which gradually fade when signal strength decreases or electromagnetic interference or multipath increases, a digital signal provides data which is either perfect or non-existent at the receiving end. It is named for a graph (shown at right) of reception quality versus signal quality, where the digital signal "falls off a cliff" instead of having a gradual rolloff. The phenomenon is primarily seen in broadcasting, where signal strength is liable to ...
 
4:46 AM
been debugging for a while, if anyone wants to help ideone.com/HdpxF
 
I watched an old VHS from like 1984 of a wedding and the quality wasn't horrible.
 
Where once you pass it, it just drops.
@Insilico Yes, exactly.
That 10 trillion digit Pi computation is probably the best example of something we attempted that was right on the cliff.
5 trillion digits ran for 90 days with only 8 days lost to hardware failure.
10 trillion digits ran for 360+ days with 150+ lost to hardware failures.
We were basically at the limit of the hardware's reliability and the software's fault-tolerance.
 
Okay, reading about lock-free algorithms is giving me a massive mindfuck.
 
@Insilico Yeah, they suck.
 
I'll stick to spin-locks and simple pointer assignments for now. :-/
 
4:51 AM
@Mysticial Out of curiousity, have you ever tried to figure out how long it would take if you had 40 terabytes (or whatever exactly) of RAM or SSD so you didn't have to store intermediate results on spinning discs at all?
 
Might be a dumb question but how did you resume from the hardware failure?
 
@JerryCoffin SSD wouldn't have helped because I heavily optimized out nearly all the non-sequential access.
But if it was all in ram.
 
@Rapptz Some other machine figures out that another machine rolled over and does something about it.
 
Assuming uniform ram, then yeah, you could potentially extrapolate a bunch of small runs to the larger sizes.
However...
There's a critical threshold somewhere where the performance plunges because one of the major algorithms starts to suck.
That threshold is too high for any workstation today to reach using only ram.
So yes, you could extrapolate, but it might underestimate the time by a factor of 2 or more.
That's the problem when you try to force code to run 3 orders of magnitude more than it was initially designed to.
You get "problems"...
 
@Mysticial As if code doesn't already have problems even when running at 3 orders of magnitude less than what you think it should run at. :-P
 
4:56 AM
Yo mama so fat
 
@Mysticial Yeah -- It's kind of amazing at times how much supposed big-O analysis breaks down a long ways short of infinity.
 
@Mysticial Do you have an idea what that threshold is?
 
The sad part is that I totally predicted it would have problems. It would still work, but just horrifically slow. (yet still faster than the published state-of-the-art algorithms)
@Insilico Depending on the size of the cache and the speed of the memory, it's a gradual slow-down starting from about 30 - 100 billion digits and ending at 500 billion or so. (meaning, 500 billion is large enough for the slow-down to have completely taken effect and the algorithm returns to its big-O complexity)
 

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