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Xeo
11:00 PM
@sehe Ah, you made it sound like POSIX does allow that and more (the second sentence)
 
Woot! 1703 reputation...
 
Filename restrictions are implemented at layer before filesystem for compatibility.
 
@Insilico In a meta-sense, yeah. You cannot productively put random sequences in files since the overzealous anti-virus companies may decide to quarantain or destruct your precious data for you :)
@Xeo I didn't. You just interpreted it that way. You should feel bad :)
 
@sehe Actually wouldn't random sequences in files indicate the lack of virus payloads? :-P
 
11:03 PM
(Unless it's encrypted, I guess.)
 
@Insilico Some specific subsets of "random sequences" would look like a virus (then again, some specific subsets of a random sequence would be a virus).
 
@sehe LOL
 
@JerryCoffin A subset of random != random
 
@Insilico You need to recalibrate your definition of random. Confer with the infinite monkeys, please. When they're done Monte-Carlo-ing hamlet, they'll be happy to write you a payload that matches 10 different virus finger prints at once.
 
@sehe Shouldn't that be renamed to "Disasters in the year 1703"? :-P
 
11:04 PM
how could an outsider distinguish random from encrypted?
 
@Walter You can't (easily). That's the point.
 
Assuming quality encryption, you can't.
 
@Insilico you cannot (full stop) (if the encryption is any good)
 
@Insilico Doesn't really matter. Virus scanners simply don't scan for viruses. They scan for fingerprints and heuristics
 
@sehe lol
 
11:06 PM
Heuristics can be funny.
 
@sehe Last time I remembered "randomness" meant "no order". Virus have by definition some sort of "order" to them.
 
I had Avira declare my "do nothing" program as a virus once.
 
@CatPlusPlus Yeah. And powerful. Actually, I like that in some virus scanners. Not that I let virus scanners ruin my computing experience
 
I had to add call to GetLastError to make it shut up.
 
@CatPlusPlus By using suspicious dynamic loading and GetProcAddress sequences?
 
@Walter Statistical analysis of a huge amount of encrypted text, usually. One of the first "breaks" against an encryption algorithm is often exactly that -- being able to distinguish its output from random noise with only XXX blocks of text (where XXX will probably be 2**100 or more for a good, modern algorithm). The next step (in many cases) is being able to identify the actual algorithm (usually at least a little harder).
 
@CatPlusPlus That's phunny
 
Entire program was literally invoke ExitProcess, 0
 
@CatPlusPlus In what language? Factor or haskell?
 
Assembly.
format PE gui 4.0
entry start

include 'win32a.inc'
section '.text' code readable executable
    start:
        invoke GetLastError   ; if I leave this out, Avira claims this program is a trojan, lol.
        invoke ExitProcess, 0
section '.idata' import data readable
    library kernel32, 'kernel32.dll'
    import kernel32, ExitProcess, 'ExitProcess', GetLastError, 'GetLastError'
 
11:09 PM
@CatPlusPlus Would never have recognized 'invoke' as an assembly keyword
 
Ell
Don't understand assembly
 
It's a macro.
 
Ell
Didn't know you could "call" and "return"
 
How do heuristics account for the PE header that every single Windows program have?
 
Oh MASM sorcery
 
11:09 PM
FASM.
 
@Insilico They don't.
 
@sehe So how come antivirus programs don't just simply flag every .exe and .dll?
 
@Ell x86 has opcodes for that.
 
@Insilico that would be a bit silly wouldn't it?
 
11:10 PM
@Insilico they look for common patterns that virus writers/exploit writers use to create buffer overflows, etc (shellcode encodings, etc)
 
@CatPlusPlus Much like a macro, but built into the assembler.
 
Ell
I can't even get a conditional jump to work :L
 
@TonyTheLion Yeah. The PE header is a common pattern found in all viruses.
 
@Insilico They just look at certain characteristics. Selfmodifying code is suspect. Code that dynamically loads system libraries, and uses certain APIs (think debugging apis) etc. that could lead to elevation are suspect. Etc. etc.
 
@JerryCoffin Well, no. It's a macro in FASM.
 
11:11 PM
@Insilico the guys who make antivirus programs aren't retarded.
 
library and import are too.
 
@Insilico Because they don't stop at the header.
 
@MooingDuck McAfee really tests that assumption of yours sometimes.
 
@Insilico even McAfee does better than flagging all exes
 
FASM has a nice macro system.
 
11:12 PM
@CatPlusPlus If it's not built in, then what you're looking at isn't a real assembler!
 
@Insilico PE headers are part of every standard Windows exe. So, that's not really a valid heuristic to look for when doing virus search
 
Ell
Yeah when I attach debugger to program I get complaints sometimes. ADA free or something
 
@MooingDuck Thanks for making that point for me
 
Ell
Decompiler
 
11:12 PM
High-level assembly.
 
netcat is commonly seen as dangerous by anti virus programs
damnit
 
@TonyTheLion True, which is why I wonder if the AV companies train their heuristics with non-viruses too.
 
it's such a useful networking tool
 
@Ell IDA Pro
 
AV train their heuristics with monkeys.
 
11:13 PM
@Insilico donno
 
@Insilico of course they do
 
@TonyTheLion Because it has the capability to listen on privileged ports (<1024)
 
Ell
Yeah IDA that's it. Was trying to crack RPG maker vx :P
 
@Ell Succeeded?
 
They have heuristics, but they also have actual virus blueprints that they look for, of most known viruses (ie that's why you have t update definitions so often)
 
Ell
11:14 PM
But it exited when it recognized a debugger. but I didn't know how to modify the exe so meh
 
Foiled by IsDebuggerPresent.
 
Ell
No I had no internet so I failed epicly :L
 
heuristics for malware, viruses are becoming increasingly hard, because the creators of these things are not stupid
and know a thing or two about making things hard to find, or disassemble
 
@CatPlusPlus Many are more sophisticated than just that. They'll also detect kernel debuggers, for which IsDebuggerAttached will still return false.
 
Ell
Think I will try again soon
 
11:15 PM
@TonyTheLion Yes. But 0-day won't be caught with that. Also, many a program would be 'possibly legit' but malware on many a system (think VNC servers). This is where heuristics shine to warn a 'poor dumb user'
 
@JerryCoffin I know. :P
IT'S A JOKE.
 
@sehe indeed. No virus scanner could reliably detect a possible 0day exploit, however, indeed heuristics warn dumbass users
 
@TonyTheLion Actually, I'd have said more or less the opposite: the most sophisticated I've seen were probably for MS-DOS. Now, many seem to just assume (largely correctly) that they'll just get lost in the noise.
 
Ell
But there is so much assembly, which I can only understand half of
 
What.
 
11:16 PM
@TonyTheLion And even smart users sometimes.
 
@Ell yes, lots of that stuff
 
Ell
Ima Google zero day
 
@Insilico indeed, if you're not in the know about latest 0 days, you can get caught off guard
 
Scanners don't look for 0-days, they look for malware payloads.
 
@Insilico No. Because, by definition, smart users don't rely on virus scanners. Which then logically means, they don't run them because (a) they waste resources (b) they waste money
 
11:18 PM
@sehe Hmm...so I might be a smart user. Cool.
 
Am I failing at acronyms? What the fish is BMS?
 
Ell
I don't run anti virus
 
@JerryCoffin I've looked at some virus code, it wasn't too simple. Also I've done some exploit writing, shellcode encoding. Things can be pretty mangled up to make it hard to find.
also, I'm no expert at assembler
and this virus source was all in assembler
 
Haha, I've read so many 'virus tutorials'.
 
@JerryCoffin I sure am. Don't tell my boss, but I disabled the enterprise cripple ware on the company desktop too.
It was not supposed to be possible, but hey, access to physical enclosure means compromised system... so I took advantage of that in my favour
 
11:19 PM
@CaptainGiraffe Black Mesa Source. Be excited.
@sehe You evil bastard.
 
@CatPlusPlus most of them suck. If you want to be a real haxor, you need some good books on the various subjects. I've got quite a few of those lying around.
 
@CaptainGiraffe Hey graffle, long time no seen
 
Some of which I've read in parts
 
I neither care nor have time for silly books.
 
and assembler, you need to be able to think with it, in your sleep.
 
11:20 PM
Well, I had back then, but hey, internet.
 
@CatPlusPlus My X1400 thank you
@sehe Hey. I'm taller than ever =)
 
@CatPlusPlus Hey, I also injected my own SSD to the mix. The client is now planning to buy SSD for all the team (say 15-25 devs). I have personally conquered that.
 
Assembly is not black magic.
 
@CatPlusPlus how am I not surprised?! how did you learn C++?
 
Ell
Nighty night all, too tired
 
11:21 PM
@TonyTheLion I read 'in pants' there first time(s) around
 
I've read one crappy book on C++, the rest by practice and from Internet.
 
@Ell Sleep well
 
@CatPlusPlus no it's not black magic, but some things take a bit to wrap your head around.
 
The book had pointers all over and no templates.
Meh, like what?
 
sounds like C to me
 
11:22 PM
The only other programming book I've ever read was even shittier PHP book several years before that.
 
@TonyTheLion Compare sometime to what the Dark Avenger Mutation Engine for MS-DOS would let a complete non-programmer produce quite easily.
 
Oh, no, wait, I also read Turbo Pascal 5 book a bit.
Even before that.
 
@JerryCoffin yes, unfortunately they make these things that will allow script kiddies to do stupid shit
 
@CatPlusPlus I've read stroustrup, effective C++ series, effective STL series, Modern C++, some others. But all of them, after learning on the job (I bluffed my way into based on self-learning).
@CatPlusPlus TP 5.5, TP 7.0 Internals, Turbo Prolog books before that too yes :)
 
Programming books are boring.
 
11:24 PM
@sehe I took a slightly different route: the last time they tried to do that to me, I pointed out that I was employee number 3 at that company, and asked him what employee he was. He didn't answer, but I never had the AV either...
 
I'd rather write code.
 
Recently I added Accelerated C++ to the list. Unsurprisingly I wasn't shocked by it's new information
 
I Had a (pseudo IBM) T61 laptop from 2007 that I was just not happy with. The T60 I was perfectly happy with. It was a proper IBM machine. So I swapped the bad left keypad key, swapped the SSD drive, and the 4 gigs of RAM. All of a sudden I have the perfect laptop.
 
@CatPlusPlus and here we go preaching to all newbies to buy and read a C++ book.
 
Because you have to be pretty smart to learn C++ without a book. :v
 
11:25 PM
You have to be pretty smart to learn C++ with a book.
 
I've read 2 books on C++ and they were both pretty bad.
 
Larry Wall said that Haskell is a language for geniuses, so I guess I now outrank DeadMG.
 
A T60 with an SSD and 2.8 Gigs of ram is the perfect laptop. More than 4 hours of battery time on a 6 year old battery.
 
I've read one Stroustroup
and then bits of another
 
11:26 PM
I've read one: Stroustroup's. I think I'm permanently damaged, but edicated.
educated even.
 
@JerryCoffin Hmm. I'm working on-site for a client. We don't have that kind of political power. But if I can show a whole team of devs what productivity increase the SSD is (and using git on it), it kind of convinced the right persons think more creatively than before.
 
damaged?
 
@CaptainGiraffe No, see, "2.8GB of RAM" and "perfect" does not go together.
 
@CatPlusPlus Suits me :)
 
How does one even get 2.8GB of RAM?
 
11:27 PM
Well, you have to be something to read and understand his book.
 
@CatPlusPlus 4 Gigs dual chanel = 2.8 about on this hardware.
 
@TonyTheLion Shared video ram
 
4GB is not perfect either.
16, maybe.
4, no.
 
Its good and all, don't get me wrong.
 
@CatPlusPlus I'd say you have to be pretty stupid to even try!
 
11:28 PM
@CatPlusPlus My next laptop will be 16GB. But I don't need it, so I'm postponing the order
 
@JonathanSeng depends which of his books you're talking about
 
@CatPlusPlus When I use up those gigs I'll give you a call
 
I hopefully won't need a next laptop for a long time.
 
The C++ Programming Language.
 
I don't like them very much.
 
11:29 PM
@JonathanSeng well that's a hard book for a beginner
 
+1. Give me my home workstation any day.
 
I actually like my 16 GB MacBook Pro except for the faulty video.
 
he wrote another which is more appropriate for a beginner
 
And I'm not a mac- or windows- or linux- lover.
 
Mine has three USB ports.
THREE
 
11:29 PM
@CaptainGiraffe No need.
 
@CatPlusPlus How many hard drives do you have connected by USB?
 
Zero to one.
Because with an external hub for keyboard and mouse, I have exactly one port left for devices.
And no, you can't plug HDD to an external hub.
It just doesn't work.
 
@TonyTheLion He did? I never knew. I read TC++PL also, as a C/C++ virgin (yes I mean both)
 
Only a hard drive needs a port to itself.
 
And cooling.
And I think printer didn't work on that hub either.
 
11:31 PM
So, hub up the rest.
 
@JerryCoffin I know 3 gigs ram with an SSD drive, where the crock has the priorities been at.
 
@JonathanSeng HDD on USB suck. use eSate. Or maaaaybe USB 3
 
I have. Cooling and hub are two ports, and one is left.
 
its much more convenient to unplug a hub than lots of things
 
Why would I unplug keyboard and mouse.
Are you crazy.
FUCKING FLOOD CONTROLS AAAAAARGH
 
11:32 PM
Ctrl-Space. And peace
 
@sehe Programming: Principles and Practice Using C++
 
@Rapptz Not a bad book
 
I think that's the book he meant
 
Oh noes. Another book I've not read.
Will I ever live with the guilt?
.... mmmmm.... YES
 
Point is, 3 ports is shit.
I want like 6.
 
11:32 PM
@CaptainGiraffe Hmm...My current (5+ year-old) machine has 8 gigs of RAM. If I were building one today, I wouldn't start with less than 16 (and more likely 32).
 
32GB sounds great.
I might actually run Chrome for extended periods of time.
 
lol
 
Or even compile it.
 
@JerryCoffin Hey. Our machines are the same age and have the same amount of RAM. We have so much in common :)
 
@JerryCoffin Your old machine is not a laptop that beats the modern stuff. Magnesium casing ftw.
 
11:34 PM
@sehe If you were just a girl... :-)
 
Beating the modern stuff by hammering them with your laptop might sound cool, but it's not really the purpose.
 
@CaptainGiraffe No -- I avoid laptops as much as possible. When I can't avoid them, I get the cheapest POS that sort of works, because the expensive ones are such horrible investments.
 
room topic changed to Lounge<C++>: Laptops are horrible. [c++] [c++11] [c++-faq]
 
May 15 at 8:59, by sehe
@CatPlusPlus I'm considering 32 Mbs. It'll probably be 16Gb
 
@JerryCoffin What cheapest POS would you get as a laptop if you had to get one?
 
11:36 PM
@CatPlusPlus Spoken as a cat, that is more than just a little ironic. You are freaking laptop yourself
 
32 megabits of memory might be little low.
 
@JerryCoffin My line of work requires laptops. The T60 was the last of the IBM brand and yes they are in a class of their own.
 
@CatPlusPlus True.
 
I telecommute. So, having a working laptop is important. I detest maintaining two development machines.
 
0
Q: I need help in c++

user1644779We will write a simple program that simply uses the three standard library functions. The following is a high level description of the main program. In this program, we declare and define the following variables and carry out the following actions: (a) two size t type variable called size and le...

 
11:37 PM
@JerryCoffin Yeah. Too bad I'm more than just a girl
 
So far, the mac is surving.
 
@Insilico I dunno. I haven't bought a new one in something like 5 years or so.
 
Come on. The star button must be broken on that one
 
No, just the start was broken.
 
@JonathanSeng I wouldn't have a problem with that, I use vastly different things at work anyway.
 
11:39 PM
@JonathanSeng It was running Windows 8?
 
"No, just the start was broken" was directed at Rapptz's posting of a question.
 
Just to put another flamewar in here. I love gnome 3, it is easy on my hardware and it makes my life easy.
 
And the following star broken.
I couldn't run linux successsfully on my kick-butt desktop -- it had two nvidia cards and that messes with everything.
So I bought a mac. Which requires replugging in video cables every resume from sleep.
Go figure.
 
@JonathanSeng Two nVidia cards? There's your problem.
 
Now, I know of no other laptop on the planet that will run three external 1920x1080 displays PLUS the built in display.
 
11:42 PM
@JonathanSeng Yes downloading a shellscript from the nvidia site is such a crap.
 
They were bought for windows. When I had the chance to change, the ever trashy XOrg sent be back.
 
@JonathanSeng Congrats you beat me.
 
@JonathanSeng Why bother with the built-in display when you have three 1080p monitors?
 
@JonathanSeng Also laptop?
 
Is there a TMP hack to get what the OP wants here?
1
Q: c++ extending a data type

Lpc_darkI was wondering if there was anyway to extend a data type in c++ kinda like how you can in javascript. How i would imagine this is kinda like this char data[]="hello there"; char& capitalize(char&) { //capitalize the first letter. i know that there //is another way // such as a ...

 
11:44 PM
I move my gear at least twice daily.
@Mysticial Nice question. But no
 
@Mysticial As of now, none that I know of.
 
I wnated four monitors.
erg, wanted.
 
Of course the "good practice" answer is to use a std::string type instead of the abomination that is C-style strings.
 
That wasn't their quest.
question. Which is why I deleted my answer./
Their interest was in doing data.capitalize.
 
@JonathanSeng So get a fourth 1080p monitor? :-P
 
11:46 PM
No more jacks ;-)
and the display is pretty good.
It also helps to have some windows left in a reliable place when I disconnect the monitors and walk away with it.
 
@JonathanSeng Is the laptop display 1080p?
 
@JonathanSeng up arrow to edit, read the newbit hints in the sidebar
 
Thanks. I don't see newbit hints in the sidebar.
:-)
 
Sep 9 at 11:45, by daknøk
If you are new here, please read the newbie hints right away, and only post here afterwards. Thank you.
 
Its a macbook pro with retina; the builtin monitor is better than 1080p.
 
11:50 PM
@JonathanSeng nobody ever does :(
 
Its burried in the middle of "There are other rooms" and such.
 
You can always try the PHP room. :)
nah...
 
@JonathanSeng It's in bold, has 14 stars, and it's pinned, and people still can't see it?
 
I only try to pull that off on the most annoying people.
 
@JonathanSeng Screenshot?! I mean, I wouldn't think it could be much more bold and stuff :)
 
11:52 PM
Which reminds me...
 
@JonathanSeng Is the resolution higher than 1080p, or does it just have high DPI?
 
I should get a badge for trolling that spammer into the PHP room the other night.
 
@JonathanSeng NVM looked it up myself.
 
wat? The built-in monitor to you macbook pro is more than 1080p?
 
Retina Display is a brand name used by Apple for liquid crystal displays which they claim to have a high enough pixel density that the human eye is unable to notice pixelation at a typical viewing distance. The term is used for several Apple products, including the iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, and MacBook Pro. As the typical viewing distance would be different depending on each device's usage, the pixels per inch claimed as retina quality can be different for the smallest devices (326, iPhone and iPod Touch): greater than the mid-sized devices (264, iPad) and greater than the larger devices ...
Apparently it's 2880×1800.
 
11:54 PM
Thank you for saving me doing the same copy-paste ;-)
 
@Mysticial 1080p isn't really all that high for a computer
 
@Insilico holy fuck...
 
/me chuckles.
 
@Mysticial 1080p is 1920 × 1080
 
@MooingDuck I know. I have 3 of them side-by-side.
 
11:55 PM
I have three side by side next to the mac.
 
There are computer monitors available that has even higher resolution than 2880×1800.
 
alright 1920 is a little more than I thought, but still
 
Sure, especially in medical
 
I guess Apple's "breakthrough" is putting something really high-res into consumer products.
 
But, in my case, 1080p turned portrait is right for my eyes and budget. I don't much care the mac is greater than that -- I can't tell on email and editing code.
 
11:56 PM
There are several 4K resolutions in digital cinematography and computer graphics. The name 4K is derived from the horizontal resolution, which is approximately 4,000 pixels (this designation is different from those used in the digital television industry, which are represented by the vertical pixel count). YouTube is the only video hosting service that allows 4K videos to be streamed, as it allows a resolution of up to 4096 x 3072 (12.6 megapixels). Formats 4K UHDTV 4K UHDTV at 3840 x 2160 (8.3 megapixels), which is one of the levels of Ultra-high-definition television, doubles the 108...
 
@Mysticial Yup -- quite impressive; it's only taken about 10 years to get better resolution than my last CRT had (at 2560x1600).
 
@JerryCoffin You speak like a good friend of mine.
 
TIL of 8k resolution
 
@JonathanSeng go to newegg.com/Store/… and in the sidebar on the left look at the options for "recommended resolution". 1080p is thoroughly average for modern LCD monitors.
There's even a 2560x2048 for sale there.
 

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