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21:00
@MooingDuck As I just mentioned :P
@RMartinhoFernandes AFAIK, it's never stated directly, but the requirement that array of T be contiguous for any type T means it can't be otherwise.
@JerryCoffin Oh, that.
Finally got those stupid ticket IDs to be short.
You're right.
@MooingDuck How does it make anything a PITA?
Want an over-aligned type, request it.
@JerryCoffin Surely that can only apply if you actually attempt to create such an array?
21:01
You mean alignof gives different results depending on what I declare in my program?
@DeadMG Not really. The fact that you could create such an array is enough.
21 hours ago, by Radek 'daknok' Slupik
Adding decimal IDs is trivial, but I haven't yet focussed on that.
Hmmm. Dat^
@RMartinhoFernandes The various C++ GPU libraries that don't allow you to create certain types on the stack since they can't guarantee the proper alignment.
@sehe It was pretty trivial, actually.
@MooingDuck Because C++ didn't have alignas.
21:04
I got rid of display_request!
It was only difficult to find how to do it because the docs suck.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Ok, so you mean you finally got that trivial thing to work :)
And detached X11/Windows drivers from Core itself.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Oh I can totally relate to that. It's why I hate programming.
No more 5-deep directory hierarchy, woo.
21:05
@MooingDuck You can alignas(16) float[3];
If stuff were always well documented, programming would be a joy
Hexapoda isn't documented at all! :D
Well, technically can't right now, but will in the future...
@RadekdaknokSlupik But I won't use it anyway :) - not as a programmer anyways
Nobody will use it. xD
21:06
And renamed window_impl to window_driver so everything is now symmetric and cool.
Now I'm adding comments.
I thought Jerry just said... oh. arrays. Alright, I don't get the details, but I'll drop it.
About one every minute, I'd say, on average.
Oh, you don't mean in chat
I mean the ability to add comments to tickets. :P
Well, peeps, this time, I will be taking the night off - no mumbling for me (not that there is anyone around to verbally abuse anyways).
Sleep well
21:08
See you.
@sehe G'night.
@sehe Two more times.
I should sleep too, but this crap doesn't want to work... I can't admit defeat.
I slept during the day and it was good.
Not counting drivers and event structures, Core is 9.1kB big.
Events are taking 18kB because of crap inside, but that's not important.
Woot! My friends finally agreed on a date for our May get-together dinner. Yes, it's in June.
I'm going to sleep now.
21:15
lol
bb
I'm trying to figure out why stackoverflow.com/questions/10921538/… was tagged [C][C++], I questioned him, he removed the [C++] tag, then 13 minutes later put it back to both tags.
@RMartinhoFernandes Congratulations. You still beat the Belgian government by over a year...
Anyone use VTK? Comments? Opinions?
Shhh! Act like we are ignoring him...
@Drise Tried to use it once and wasn't overly impressed, but it probably doesn't mean much -- it was really new at the time.
Probably should indicate VTK 5.8+
Another question: Are Requirement Specification Documents really used (in professional settings)?
21:24
@Drise That would probably help. I don't remember a version number, but it was probably closer to 0.8 than 5.8...
@Drise I believe you're required to fill those out along with your TPS reports.
.... Ignore those that don't use google first.
@Drise my job doesn't have reports, but we don't develop "new" software, so I don't know if we count. The file I have open now was written in 1991.
I ain't got no the first one :(
@MooingDuck Maybe you're editing a wrong one again.
@CatPlusPlus I personally went through and removed all copies of this file, I know this one is unique.
21:28
Oh! And since I seem to have some peoples attention.. Is gravatar broken? I can't seem to get a username to stick...
For those who don't know the story, Duck once edited a wrong file for two weeks, and wondered why the changes did nothing.
lol
Why would gravatar be broken?
@CatPlusPlus akami IPv6?
I can't sign up no matter how hard I try, and I can't get any reply from support asking for help.
21:30
(do they use akami?) Unlikely to break signups though
It's a Crucial Service (TM), it cannot be broken.
Do you have a WP.com account?
No....
Then dunno, I log in via WP.com account.
Welcome to Gravatar!

To activate your account, simply click on the link below or paste into the url field on your favorite browser:

https://en.gravatar.com/accounts/activate/drise13%40gmail.com/03fd840535

By signing up for a Gravatar account I acknowledge that I have read and agree to the Terms of Use and Privacy Policy located at the following link:

https://en.gravatar.com/site/terms-of-service

The activation link will only be good for 2 weeks, after that you will have to try again from the beginning. When you visit the above page, you'll be able to set your password and create as man
Well, and?
21:31
I've tried this like 7 bajillion times
Did you click the link?
and everytime I complete the setting passsword phase
it asks me to login
I try to login and "account name / password is invalid"
so I ask it to send me my password: "No user with this email / username was found"
Therefore I deduce that its broken.
@Drise At least now we all know your email ;)
@ScarletAmaranth Was it that hard to guess if you really wanted to?
21:35
@Xeo I don't know why you guys seem surprised about that, it's hardly a new thing.
@ScarletAmaranth See also: stackoverflow.com/users/868546/drise
@Drise It doesn't show your email even if it's written in your profile btw.
Xeo
Xeo
@MooingDuck I know, it's still mindblowing
@ScarletAmaranth Oh... Well I see it therefore you must be able to too. :P
"It works/compiles on my computer"
Ok, I must go... sit in a class.... and learn about... pointers.. :rage:
And at the same time try not to burst out laughing when you all get going on a funny topic.
@Drise std::unique_ptr<T>
21:43
If you need any pointers, dave should have plenty available.
@Drise Out of consideration for your classmates, we'll try to be boring (though I, for one, don't really have to try...)
@CatPlusPlus to be fair, the process involved in debugging this project were quite involved. I have to open up the control panel, stop our server software, wait for it to close (~3m), open up the running services window and close our companies other services (~1m), build the project (~20m), start the server software from the control panel (~2 minutes), test, then do it all again. If I forgot to close the background services, I had to uninstall (~20m), and reinstall (~30m) (including two reboots).
Wut.
You know you can start/stop services using net, right?
@CatPlusPlus never heard of it, and looks hard to google
net start service, net stop service
21:53
I wonder if I can do the whole shutdown/startup process with that....
the program takes forever to close because they couldn't synchronize the threads right, so they all just sleep for different amounts of seconds before closing.
hmm, what are my service names...
@mooingduck I dint know if you were here, but this is the same professor that was teaching uml earlier this afternoon
I mentioned c++11 and asked if it was valid to use / turn in, and I get a blank stare in return
So no, std::unique_ptr<T> is not acceptable.
What an asshole.
auto_ptr it is then :)
21:58
(You know how difficult it is to type that on a tablet?
Write your own unique_ptr class with an explicit move function!
Oh he hasn't taught classes yet...
So? You may not use them?
That's next week lol
I'm not supposed to know they exist lol
Not to mention write my own unique_ptr class
I hate teachers who don't allow you to use things you're not thought by them.
22:01
so irritating
"Why do people do X? Is it for logical reason Y?"
My maths teacher once started to complain against me for using log instead of the equation solver on my calculator. It's ten thousand times as quick to type that in!
no, you moron, it's because "people" are uninformed idiots.
He also complained that he couldn't find any 35mm film to record the Venus contact of the sun. He had to use a digital camera.
I like relaxed teachers that allow everything.
My informatics teacher last year allowed me to do my Java/PHP/VB.NET (you could choose one of those) homework assignment in Haskell.
Nice
22:05
He had never heard of it and I needed to add compilation instructions in a readme. xD
But you know, everything is better than Java, PHP, and VB.NET.
Hey, be nice to vb.net
@RadekdaknokSlupik my teachers required a compilable Visual Studio 2008 project. If they could compile it and run it, the language didn't matter.
agree
@Drise If he's going to complain about lack of film, couldn't he pick something that's really not available? "I can't get Kodachrome" would be a valid complaint, but "I can't get 35mm film" is just nonsense (says a guy with two digital and two film SLRs within arm's reach).
@MooingDuck Cool.
22:08
@CatPlusPlus my boss just stopped by (since I'd mentioned I was still having problems) and he mentioned I should build only the projects I need, and not the prerequisite projects, since some of the root projects currently corrupt installs >.< No wonder I'm going insane.
Did he also tell you he needed you to come in on Saturday, and Sunday… tooooooo?
brb getting some nachos
The people and atmosphere at my job is incredibly awesome. It's just that there's way too many coders here patching in functionality into a codebase that is way too old.
I briefly thought: why not start over? Then joel's comments on Netscape came to mind.
Oh yay! I get to learn more uml!
@Drise I wouldn't take that as the sole word on the subject. Microsoft started over with Windows NT. Apple started over with OS/X -- and (sort of) again with iOS. It's not (even close to) easy, but it can definitely be done.
22:15
Sorry guys, not learning about pointers lol.
I'm in doubt. Should I store configuration options for my bug tracker in a database table as key-value pairs or in a configuration file? The problem with the latter is that you need access to the server to change the configuration.
both
local config overrides db config, if value is set
@DeadMG why have the db config at all then?
@MooingDuck So you can set it across all machines for your convenience?
@MooingDuck So local configuration isn't normally necessary.
22:18
makes sense
There still needs to be local configuration: the database connection details.
"We are about to start talking about what classes are". Perfect.
Well
The concept of class isn't that obvious
I really Ned to find a way to test out of these courses
Just go away and don't bother?
22:20
Subtyping and inheritance are actually completely orthogonal
@Cicada Hmm...starting with deep subjects, hunh?
OHEY JERRY
I thought you were dead!
(I had to make a pun on your name, sorry)
std::istream_iterator<char> a(std::cin);
std::istream_iterator<int> b(std::cin);
char c;
int d;
while(c=*a, d=*b, b != std::istream_iterator<int>())
    myvector.push_back(std::make_pair(c, d));
 //can you alternate using istream_iterators from the same stream?
@Cicada I was, but I'm not any more.
I hate subtype and supertype
I speak base and derived
22:20
Also what insect are you wearing
Is that a me
@DeadMG me too, less confusing.
@Cicada looks like a butterfly to me
Looks like a moth to me, should ask @sbi for confirmation though.
@Cicada oh, I just found the bigger version, that's no butterfly
@Cicada No, it's a wasp (I think). Interestingly, I may have something new soon -- something similar is busy building a nest on the eaves above my deck.
Japanese Hornet most likely
22:22
When you tilt your head by 360° it looks exactly the same
@Cicada when I tilt your head?
@DeadMG Only if those live in Colorado. I took that picture on the deck behind my house.
@JerryCoffin good camera
@duck I think 360 degrees would be somewhat useless in that situation.
@MooingDuck Pretty fair, but I have a better one now. The lens matters more than the camera though.
22:24
Hm. I'm one of these people who wrongly believe that megapixels mean everything
Needs moar megapixels
megapixels cowbell
FTFY
1MP means nothing if you have a fantastic lense
@Cicada Not me. I've already got a 24 megapixel camera -- and it's really quite a decent camera in spite of that. :-)
man this project takes forever to compile :/
@MooingDuck Guessed language: C++
@JerryCoffin That's pretty huge
Have you tried logarithms, though?
Why am I typoing everything
22:28
@Cicada logarithm semantics?
@Cicada Freudian slips, I'm sure. Or in this case, perhaps Jungian (Jugian?) slips.
Oneboxed xkcd y u full-size.
@RadekdaknokSlupik Jeff think xkcd is funny, thats why.
1>Build Time 18:07
22:31
Guess what: Jeff's right.
Guess what: Jeff's left.
@CaptainGiraffe The iron hand of stack exchange :) ?
@ScarletAmaranth No idea, just extrapolating =)
Both of my statements are true.
@MooingDuck are you compiling microsoft or something
Or is it mm:ss
You can compile Microsoft without any warnings?
22:32
@MooingDuck I dislike the fact that there is no space between > and b.
@Cicada Is that similar to the halting problem?
Yes. You can't find all code at MS just with static analysis.
@Cicada mm:ss
wheee finally dled max payne
@deadmg stop taking up bandwidth with your silly shenanigans.
22:35
Fuck yeah I have wikis! No only to make the pages editable…
@MooingDuck You're a lucky man, back in my day 18:07 was 18th of July, the hand in date to the compiler room, then we had to wait until the next month to get back a compiler warning.
When you've tried C# and its instant build times it's a pain to go back to C++
@cicada .Net in general?
I remember thinking once that it would be incredible if someone came up with a wiki type thing, but with a WYSIWYG. Then google wave happened and nobody cared :(
Vb does it too
22:37
Can't speak for the other languages as I haven't tried them, but no, i'd say this is particular to C#
C++/CLI is .net and slow to build
@Cicada Java is fast too.
At least in my experience
@MooingDuck Never heard of that
What is it?
@Cicada C++ in .net should die fast, but slow and painfully.
Visual basic .net?
22:38
Some kind of tribal dance I hear
@CaptainGiraffe They actually teach that thing here
Oh well I should also mention that all my teachers are macfags
Except for the director who uses XP
@Cicada I apologize on behalf of teachers.
@cicada I like my tribal dance, go away
@Cicada Writing code fast beats compiling it fast every time.
Somebody created a unit testing framework for DCPU-16 assembly. -_-
@JerryCoffin javascript
22:40
@RadekdaknokSlupik ppl be crazy about that shit idk why
(Even I wrote an emu)
@Cicada Because Notch.
Notch > you.
Ouch, but true
No
He's a javafag
Lol
22:41
I'm a Rubyfag! :D
4.times
@MooingDuck I'll keep that in mind for the next time I upgrade my C++ profiler.
We are all c++fags
I'm not
I'm not either
I rarely use C++.
22:41
I'm just here for the cool and dramatic chats
Most of the time I work in Ruby.
Cicada
Hahah
DeadMG
I can't believe that you go off the rails about porn, but come in here and refer to people as "fags"
4
22:42
I'm a RAII fag
Drise
ScarletAmaranth
Oh look this topic again
That's irrelevant.
It's just a way of speaking - if it bothers anyone I'll stop
22:42
yeah, like going around calling black people "nigger" is just a way of speaking
right, britfag
or calling everyone from Germany "Nazis"
No, its just far mire entertaining than listening to a lecture (again) about uml
i do it however
it's just a way of speaking, what harm could it possibly do?
22:43
I'm a smoker, if it bothers anyone I'll stop.
damn
A Brit and a French arguing. One of them will die.
I'm very cautious about it and be sure to use it only in contexts in which I know it will be understood
and to think I took you off my ignore list
I know it can hurt
There's an ignore list?
22:43
lesson: never take anyone off your ignore list, they only go there for good reason
where is it
On the chat.
There, underlined already.
@DeadMG Does it honestly bother you, or are you just looking for reasons to be annoyed?
Oh thanks! That's good to know
No really if it bothers anyone I'll really stop
I don't want to offend people, really
@Cicada I don't think he's not bothered by the word, he's bothered by the apperent contradiction.
22:45
@JerryCoffin Of course it bothers me.
it should bother you too
I don't care what people call me, be it "awesome", "cool", "awful" or "fag". That said, I'm often on /b/. :P
@MooingDuck I fail to see any contradiction.
it enshrines the utter stupidity of the speaker, and the absolute offence to the listener
Not that I pretend not being utterly stupid
But once again if it really offends you I will stop
If it's just for the fun of arguing I don't get the point
Just put me back in your list already and go solve some sha2
wish I could put other people on each other's ignore lists sometimes :/
22:48
I feel the need to opine that the word is completely unacceptable in a conversation, but on the internet the vocabulary is different.
what the fuck
@DeadMG Hmm...after 15+ years on Usenet, and before that a couple of years as a moderator on Fidonet, it takes a lot more than that to even get to "mildly annoying" I'm afraid.
why do I need to be signed in to a social club to play Max Payne 3?
@DeadMG so it can post on your wall!
elton john was at my hometown last week <3
22:49
@JerryCoffin If you just sit around and pretend that it's acceptable, it actually will be acceptable. That's a problem.
@JohannesSchaublitb did you see him?
unfortunately no
had to work
@JohannesSchaublitb That guy is one of those, I have to see before I (or person) die.
22:52
Protip: say "folk" instead of "fag"
macfolks
Hm.
@Pubby If you're the kind of person who thinks about calling other people "fag", best to just never say anything, ever.
@deadmg I known you probably don't care, but you have my respect for that statement.
Oh wow
@JohannesSchaublitb That is too bad.
22:53
You just won respect
From an internet person
+1
@cicada I think I'm on his ignore list anyway lol
I was saying that for you
@Cicada We are not internet +1s in here. In here we are actual people.
@CaptainGiraffe You have no way to prove it
I'm not, he still calls me stupid when I do stupid stuff :D
@CaptainGiraffe except RMartinho
22:56
@MooingDuck Well he is Rdot to all of us so why not.
Well, gotta go for a while. Later folks (please feel free to think of yourselves using any term you prefer, if you find "folks" offensive).
@CaptainGiraffe rmf
See you little bee !
I'ma sleep too.
damn
excellent. Due to 3+ processes using this file for IPC, I still can't figure out which process is loading the files :/
@Cicada short sleep
22:58
it is, of course, not easy to ask Steam for a refund because they don't list all the requirements
@Cicada you were only disconnected for seconds.

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